Full Version: Bourdon a Flop?
All the hype from luc bourdon when we picked him saying he will be the canucks best defence in years to come.. i know hes still young, but all of our rookies are doing alright except luc. against anaheim he was on for all 3 goals, thats pretty harsh. i hope he picks up his game and makes the team.
He is really young and needs time in the AHL I think. It is just his mental game thats holding him back and he can't get over that hump.
Hopefully he can be a top 4 player for the Canucks in 5 years
If he fails at that level than he will be a Jason Doig lol
Hopefully he can be a top 4 player for the Canucks in 5 years
If he fails at that level than he will be a Jason Doig lol
I don't know if you can say that he's a flop. He had a much better game tonight. He really limited himself to playing steady tonight, but he played over 22 minutes. If you play over 22 minutes without being called out, that's aways good in my book. AV does seem to trust him out on defense, which says more than you guys can.
He didn't handle some passes cleanly, but that's nervousness more than a divot on his skill.
Hey, Schneider allowed 2 goals on 4 shots. Let's rag on him! Lay off Bourdon, just let him be for now.
He didn't handle some passes cleanly, but that's nervousness more than a divot on his skill.
Hey, Schneider allowed 2 goals on 4 shots. Let's rag on him! Lay off Bourdon, just let him be for now.
I think with experience and maturity the worst Bourdon can be as a NHL player is a solid 5th or 6th d man that can slip into the 4th role. Similar to what Kraicjek's role is on the team right now
Kraicjek played a great game today btw as the veteran on the blue line.
Kraicjek played a great game today btw as the veteran on the blue line.
He played a pretty good game tonight.
Hes still young and needs to develop, he'd be alright in the AHL.
patience....
does everyone here think all defensemen turn into miracles after a couple training camps? seriously, shut up about bourdon and say something about him after he's spent a year with the moose
I expect him(Luc) to be in the AHL the majority of the year of course, but next year, I'm guessing he will be on the Canucks Roster for sure.
**** this guy hasnt even played a pro season yet and you guys are already labeling him a flop?!?!?!
Wait 3 or 4 years then comment like that.
Wait 3 or 4 years then comment like that.
after 1-2 years on the moose he will be a solid guy. give him some experience and he will be top 4 i think.
QUOTE(canucklehead44 @ Sep 21 2007, 01:47 AM) 
**** this guy hasnt even played a pro season yet and you guys are already labeling him a flop?!?!?!
Wait 3 or 4 years then comment like that.
Wait 3 or 4 years then comment like that.
but it worked so well with the Sedins...
omgz lyke we shoulda drafted Kopitar cuz he scorez goalz.
QUOTE(Jkhol @ Sep 21 2007, 04:31 AM)
omgz lyke we shoulda drafted Kopitar cuz he scorez goalz.
No, we should have drafted Kopitar because he was a very talented center with size, something we needed in the system far more than a defenseman. I'd have been happy if we'd taken Kopitar and he was developing slowly, instead of Bourdon developing slowly. Center needed more depth than defense needed in our system.
QUOTE(Indian Hockey Phenom @ Sep 20 2007, 11:35 PM)
patience....
you have said it all so simply.
QUOTE(Jester@wraiths.org @ Sep 21 2007, 09:53 AM)
No, we should have drafted Kopitar because he was a very talented center with size, something we needed in the system far more than a defenseman. I'd have been happy if we'd taken Kopitar and he was developing slowly, instead of Bourdon developing slowly. Center needed more depth than defense needed in our system.
Hrmmm, yes, well you're WRONG
That was during the WCE era, we had PLENTY of offense, at the time it looked like we'd have Bert Mo and Nazzy long-term, we could draft a C later. At the time we had a crappy D, Jovo was gonna be gone soon and we had no leader on the D, and no real hard nosed heart and soul guys on the backend. Bourdon was big, fast, hard nosed, offensively talented, hard hitting, and a leader. It was perfect.
Top-pairing offensive, nasty canadian d-men are alot harder to come by then gifted offensive C's
QUOTE(toxic rd @ Sep 21 2007, 10:06 AM)
Hrmmm, yes, well you're WRONG
That was during the WCE era, we had PLENTY of offense, at the time it looked like we'd have Bert Mo and Nazzy long-term, we could draft a C later. At the time we had a crappy D, Jovo was gonna be gone soon and we had no leader on the D, and no real hard nosed heart and soul guys on the backend. Bourdon was big, fast, hard nosed, offensively talented, hard hitting, and a leader. It was perfect.
Top-pairing offensive, nasty canadian d-men are alot harder to come by then gifted offensive C's
That was during the WCE era, we had PLENTY of offense, at the time it looked like we'd have Bert Mo and Nazzy long-term, we could draft a C later. At the time we had a crappy D, Jovo was gonna be gone soon and we had no leader on the D, and no real hard nosed heart and soul guys on the backend. Bourdon was big, fast, hard nosed, offensively talented, hard hitting, and a leader. It was perfect.
Top-pairing offensive, nasty canadian d-men are alot harder to come by then gifted offensive C's
No, not really. Yes, the big club had WCE, but did you notice that I said our system? We didn't have and still don't have, solid center prospects. Our D on the big club at the time, had Ohlund, Salo, and Jovo. Prospects in our system such as Koltsov (at the time, a higher likely hood of getting here), Bieksa had just had a very solid AHL season (lots of goals, assists, PM's, and respectable +/- ), Bryan Allen developing...
Obviously, drafting is with the future in mind, so looking beyond the WCE would have made sense...
Center has been the weak point in our development system for... forever?
But don't misunderstand me anyone, I'm not judging Bourdon a flop, just saying, in my view, drafting him wasn't addressing what has been an ongoing need of the franchise for most of it's existence.
Sasw the game last night and Bourdon played very well. So well in fact that I barely noticed him. That's a good thing for a young Dman who's had some real head cramps. He played a simple solid game and did not try to stand out. We know he's got offensive upside but he'
s got to prove he can play Defence outside of the QMJHL. Bourdon probably had his best game as a Canuck tonight in many ways. Fans should see his quiet performance as a real positive.
s got to prove he can play Defence outside of the QMJHL. Bourdon probably had his best game as a Canuck tonight in many ways. Fans should see his quiet performance as a real positive.
QUOTE(Section116 @ Sep 21 2007, 10:44 AM)
Fans should see his quiet performance as a real positive.
Definitely.
Previously, it's seemed that he had been wanting to do too much, and end up not doing anything well. Hopefully he's realizing he needs to simplify what he's doing and let things happen. Just look to play sound defensively first at this level, and his natural talent for offense will emerge on it's own.
Whether you like it or you don't, Luc will be packaged together with Schneider and sent to the East for a blue chip player. And it will happen sooner than later.
Let the flaming begin. Bring it on!
Let the flaming begin. Bring it on!
How come there are so many people on CDC who don't know a damn thing about hockey. Look at the threads....."Bourdon a flop", "Schneider overhyped". Idiots, complete idiots. You people take what you here or see on T.V. and live by it. Yeah Bourdon was on for 3 goals. One bloody game, and he's 20. Not all defenseman progress like Phaneuf. Schneider 2 goals on 4 shots. It's not a black and white issue, those were tough shots for anyone to save (DEFLECTIONS).
I think Bourdon is talented enough to be a good NHL player. However, he seems to lack mental toughness and his confidence seems shaky. Will he mature and work his way out of that? Hopefully. He has about 2 years left to step up in my books as sometimes defenseman are slower to develop but if he hasn't shown more confidence in his own abilities by then he may be a lost cause.
He's 20 years old
Defensemen generally take a lot longer to develop and usually aren't at their best till 26 and older. Guys like Edler and Ohlund are rare where they can step in at 20/21 and play a steady game. Even a guy like Phaneuf is still a mess in his own end a lot of the time. He makes a lot of mental errors that are overlooked because of his offensive output. While I do not think Bourdon will ever put up Phaneuf-like points, I believe he will be defensively more sound then Phaneuf will be.
Just look at Bryan Allen, he didn't become a regular NHL'er till he was 25/26, when he finally became that Defensive D-Man he was drafted to be.
Guys like Bouwmeester only played in the NHL at such a young age because he played in a non-hockey market for a crappy team, so the team didn't have any expectations. Allowing him to develop, since they didn't need any immediate results. Just look at some other high draft picks like Parent, Coburn and Staal, they're around the same point in development as Bourdon. (or slightly ahead/behind)
Smid played for the Oilers last year at 20, he was good, but still made tons of mistakes. He was just allowed a little more rope because of their Team and Defensive situation.
If Bourdon is 23 and 24 and is not showing any improvement, then he is a possible bust. But i thought he played pretty solid last night. Bourdon's problem isn't skill,talent or skating. It's confidence, the mental side of the game.
Defensemen generally take a lot longer to develop and usually aren't at their best till 26 and older. Guys like Edler and Ohlund are rare where they can step in at 20/21 and play a steady game. Even a guy like Phaneuf is still a mess in his own end a lot of the time. He makes a lot of mental errors that are overlooked because of his offensive output. While I do not think Bourdon will ever put up Phaneuf-like points, I believe he will be defensively more sound then Phaneuf will be.
Just look at Bryan Allen, he didn't become a regular NHL'er till he was 25/26, when he finally became that Defensive D-Man he was drafted to be.
Guys like Bouwmeester only played in the NHL at such a young age because he played in a non-hockey market for a crappy team, so the team didn't have any expectations. Allowing him to develop, since they didn't need any immediate results. Just look at some other high draft picks like Parent, Coburn and Staal, they're around the same point in development as Bourdon. (or slightly ahead/behind)
Smid played for the Oilers last year at 20, he was good, but still made tons of mistakes. He was just allowed a little more rope because of their Team and Defensive situation.
If Bourdon is 23 and 24 and is not showing any improvement, then he is a possible bust. But i thought he played pretty solid last night. Bourdon's problem isn't skill,talent or skating. It's confidence, the mental side of the game.
Leave Bourdon alone people...
holy cow, when-ever a decent prospect pops up on Canucks radar, and the next thing you know is
-he is the next coming of Bobby Orr
-he is the next coming of Gretzky
-he is the next coming of Patrick Roy
Not everyone steps into the League like Dion Phaneuf...Calm down, take a deep breath, just let things unfold as it is
holy cow, when-ever a decent prospect pops up on Canucks radar, and the next thing you know is
-he is the next coming of Bobby Orr
-he is the next coming of Gretzky
-he is the next coming of Patrick Roy
Not everyone steps into the League like Dion Phaneuf...Calm down, take a deep breath, just let things unfold as it is
The more time passes, the more it becomes apparent that Bourdon will not be the star offensive defenseman that he was heralded to be.
He will be a decent player. I'm not willing to speculate any more than that at this point in time. You can say it's a letdown, but it's a bit much to call it a bust.
He will be a decent player. I'm not willing to speculate any more than that at this point in time. You can say it's a letdown, but it's a bit much to call it a bust.
Guys, the reason I believe he is potential trade material along with Schneider is because he is good, he has loads of potential and we can get a very good blue chip player in return. Our defensive core has never looked better nor has our depth been better. We can afford to do this and get some very good value back. And Schneider? Be honest, is Luongo going anywhere anytime soon? If, dare I say it, he gets hurt, will Schneider step in? Heck no! So we let Schneider sit in the AHL for what, three years? Who knows what could happen by then.
No I think now is the time and we have never been as fortunate to be in this position for a long time. Having the ability totrade quality in one area for quality in another and not hurt the team.
No I think now is the time and we have never been as fortunate to be in this position for a long time. Having the ability totrade quality in one area for quality in another and not hurt the team.
I don't believe Bourdon is a flop. I don't think he will reach is full potential either. That is, he won't be a premiere top pairing defencemen but a top four lock for sure. He shown he has the tools, but his mental game, which was said to be his weakness when we first drafted him three years ago, is still his major weakness today.
Bourdon still has time to show that he can become a smarter defencemen, he still a year younger than Edler I believe. I think that his development as a whole was stunted by trades and injuries, and although world junior championships was good for him, it seems he still lacks the rounder package that Edler is delivering.
That isn't to say that we wasted a pick on Bourdon. For all we know, he could be a real late bloomer like many stars today (Briere for example) and not reach his star potential until he has a few NHL seasons under his belt. That's what I think will happen with Bourdon, so for him the Canucks should play the real patience game.
Bourdon still has time to show that he can become a smarter defencemen, he still a year younger than Edler I believe. I think that his development as a whole was stunted by trades and injuries, and although world junior championships was good for him, it seems he still lacks the rounder package that Edler is delivering.
That isn't to say that we wasted a pick on Bourdon. For all we know, he could be a real late bloomer like many stars today (Briere for example) and not reach his star potential until he has a few NHL seasons under his belt. That's what I think will happen with Bourdon, so for him the Canucks should play the real patience game.
Phaneuf is overhyped by too many general observers. He's very flashy, but I sense that he doesn't think the game very well. His defensive game leaves little to be desired. 2 playoff years, 12 games, 2 points, -12.
Weber is one of those rare defensemen that have the entire package; great hockey sense, great positioning and technique, poise, and a big physical specimen. The term underrated is well, underrated for him.
I think I've already said some of these things in my "Mitchell-esque award and more d-men (the d for defense) for Calder" rant a while back.
Weber is one of those rare defensemen that have the entire package; great hockey sense, great positioning and technique, poise, and a big physical specimen. The term underrated is well, underrated for him.
I think I've already said some of these things in my "Mitchell-esque award and more d-men (the d for defense) for Calder" rant a while back.
some notable d-men picked after Luc Bourdon... Marc Staal, Ryan Parent, Kristopher Letang, Kris Russell, Cody Franson... I would like to compare like 10 years from now 
he was fine yesterday....he made some great plays and some nice outlet passes and, though he was caught out of position 2-3 times, who wasn't? He's 20 and he made 20 year old mistakes, like most 20 yr olds do, big deal. he's going to be an important player for the organization in the future.
i think hes definetly a flop
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
QUOTE(Ukrainian_Canuck @ Sep 21 2007, 11:21 PM)
i think hes definetly a flop
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
ZOMG BURDON HAZNT SKUR'D GULZ AND IZNT PHANUF.
The worrisome part is his lack of development over three training camps. poor decision-making, seeming inability to think the game and poor positioning.
He still does not look like he has fully recovered from the shattered ankle. He does not drive off the leg, his transition skating is weak and when he is going backwards it is like he is mired in concrete.
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/spo...e2-a90bc82efdf3
He still does not look like he has fully recovered from the shattered ankle. He does not drive off the leg, his transition skating is weak and when he is going backwards it is like he is mired in concrete.
QUOTE
He has been out-classed by Alex Edler and out-played by the likes of Nathan McIver, Zack Fitzgerald and Jim Sharrow.
It's early, but Luc Bourdon's play in his third camp with the Canucks, specifically his on-ice decision making, is again raising alarm bells as questions persist about his development.
............
There haven't been many questions about Bourdon's NHL-calibre skill set, although his turning ability and backwards skating have, at times, raised some concern since he suffered a devastating ankle injury in February, 2006.
It's early, but Luc Bourdon's play in his third camp with the Canucks, specifically his on-ice decision making, is again raising alarm bells as questions persist about his development.
............
There haven't been many questions about Bourdon's NHL-calibre skill set, although his turning ability and backwards skating have, at times, raised some concern since he suffered a devastating ankle injury in February, 2006.
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/spo...e2-a90bc82efdf3
I don't like his play or how slow he is coming along. But does it really matter? If he never gets to the next step in his career he will never play in the NHL again. It just sucks we wasted a 1st round pick on him. But who knows, maybe next year he'll make our top 6. We'll just have to wait and see. Either way its not going to affect our present team or outcome anyway.
QUOTE(Ukrainian_Canuck @ Sep 21 2007, 11:21 PM)
i think hes definetly a flop
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
but hey it nice to enjoy the optimistic rants of yougsters here
hahah
It is obvious that your Hockey knowledge is only exceeded by the number of Ukraine hockey players in the NHL.
convert him to forward...?
QUOTE(ModoExpress @ Sep 22 2007, 04:24 PM)
convert him to forward...?
I think he has better potenial as a goalie.
QUOTE(Jester@wraiths.org @ Sep 21 2007, 09:53 AM)
No, we should have drafted Kopitar because he was a very talented center with size, something we needed in the system far more than a defenseman. I'd have been happy if we'd taken Kopitar and he was developing slowly, instead of Bourdon developing slowly. Center needed more depth than defense needed in our system.
Remember that at the time we picked Bourdon, Bieksa didn't show the promise he has since and Edler wasn't around either. Although I guess we were still counting on Nolan Baumgartner as a prospect.
QUOTE(stawns @ Sep 22 2007, 01:49 AM)
he was fine yesterday....he made some great plays and some nice outlet passes and, though he was caught out of position 2-3 times, who wasn't? He's 20 and he made 20 year old mistakes, like most 20 yr olds do, big deal. he's going to be an important player for the organization in the future.
He decided to take a year off before he goes to university?
QUOTE(~mcm~ @ Sep 22 2007, 06:15 PM)
Remember that at the time we picked Bourdon, Bieksa didn't show the promise he has since and Edler wasn't around either. Although I guess we were still counting on Nolan Baumgartner as a prospect.
and jovo was a free agent at the end of the upcoming season. the WCE was still producing. i don;t care what anyone says. when they made the pick it was the right one. and if the ankle never does recover fully.... how could they see that comming? it happened way after the draft. people need to STFU untill he's in his mid 20's. if he's still hanging around the AHL with no promise of ever coming up then they need to make the cut. for now he's going into his FIRST AHL SEASON. jeeze. people are way to quick to judge around here. like millbury and luongo. but we're glad about that one right? or he'd be the one with a 15 year contract and we'd be sol
Jack Johnson, -5 last season in 5 games.
I smell bust.
I smell bust.
QUOTE(BluXington @ Sep 22 2007, 01:36 PM)
Bourdons had a rough first game, but in Thursdays game he really slowed things down and started doing all the small things right.
I still saw him go for the big hit a couple times when he could of just angled the guy into the corner, but overall he had a good game.
His pass out of the zone was always a good one, he would either just dump it up the boards if there was immediate pressure, or would give a tape to tape pass, I didn't see him make a bad pass all game I think and if I did it didn't turn into anything.
Him and Krajicek looked really good together and where passing between each other well.
When he was not looking for the big hit he was actually playing his positional game rather well, if he can continue to slow his game down and start focusing on the small things that separate the good defensemen from the bad ones I think he will turn out just fine.
I think full ability to turning off of the ankle he injured will come in time, his above average skating is still there and he still has the offensive instincts, he just has to learn when to play it safe and not go for the rush, I think in times past he has been trying to live up to the hype to much and has been forcing things.
He really needs to get over the nervousness and start playing with the confidence he had in the juniors and that is something that will come with time.
Don't forget people, he has yet to even play half a season in either the NHL or the AHL, once he has at least one year of AHL experience under him I think then we can start to decide what the future holds for him.
I still saw him go for the big hit a couple times when he could of just angled the guy into the corner, but overall he had a good game.
His pass out of the zone was always a good one, he would either just dump it up the boards if there was immediate pressure, or would give a tape to tape pass, I didn't see him make a bad pass all game I think and if I did it didn't turn into anything.
Him and Krajicek looked really good together and where passing between each other well.
When he was not looking for the big hit he was actually playing his positional game rather well, if he can continue to slow his game down and start focusing on the small things that separate the good defensemen from the bad ones I think he will turn out just fine.
I think full ability to turning off of the ankle he injured will come in time, his above average skating is still there and he still has the offensive instincts, he just has to learn when to play it safe and not go for the rush, I think in times past he has been trying to live up to the hype to much and has been forcing things.
He really needs to get over the nervousness and start playing with the confidence he had in the juniors and that is something that will come with time.
Don't forget people, he has yet to even play half a season in either the NHL or the AHL, once he has at least one year of AHL experience under him I think then we can start to decide what the future holds for him.
There you go.
Bourdon will be fine, just give him a season or two on the Moose with some call ups.
Maybe he'll play about 40 games with the Moose and get called up and rock the rest of the season!
Naturally defenseman take more time to develop, theres just so much pressure on this kid right now, especially with Edler biting at his heels. There was even more hype about Bryan Allen when he was drafted 4th overall and he didn't turn out to be too bad....well sorta. But the point is, it just takes a longer time for some to develop, give him a break.
QUOTE(ChroniK @ Sep 23 2007, 05:35 PM)
Naturally defenseman take more time to develop, theres just so much pressure on this kid right now, especially with Edler biting at his heels. There was even more hype about Bryan Allen when he was drafted 4th overall and he didn't turn out to be too bad....well sorta. But the point is, it just takes a longer time for some to develop, give him a break.
I agree, Bourdon is under a lot of pressure........but there is no way Edler is biting at his heels. Edler is over the next rise, in front.
Bourdon may respond to some good coaching in the minors, and may develop into a good player. It will take some time, if it happens at all.
Hopefully, if Bourdon goes down to the Moose, people will forget about him and their expectations of him, and just let him develop.
give him time to get better.
QUOTE(~mcm~ @ Sep 22 2007, 06:15 PM)
Remember that at the time we picked Bourdon, Bieksa didn't show the promise he has since and Edler wasn't around either. Although I guess we were still counting on Nolan Baumgartner as a prospect.
Actually, when we drafted Bourdon, Bieksa had just turned in an impressive AHL season, scoring goals, putting up assists, plenty of penalty minutes while posting a very solid +/-. Jovo was a free agent, who Nonis had every opportunity to make a choice to sign, but chose not to.
Our depth at center in the system, was abysmal.
QUOTE(Jester@wraiths.org @ Sep 23 2007, 06:57 PM)
Actually, when we drafted Bourdon, Bieksa had just turned in an impressive AHL season, scoring goals, putting up assists, plenty of penalty minutes while posting a very solid +/-. Jovo was a free agent, who Nonis had every opportunity to make a choice to sign, but chose not to.
Our depth at center in the system, was abysmal.
Our depth at center in the system, was abysmal.
Yeah we could've signed him....for upwards of 6M.
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