EdgarM
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Posts posted by EdgarM
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There are small differences but over all they are comparable. Petey is a couple of more years in development but Hughes's 43 goals last year definitely sticks out.
Hughes at 8 mill for the next 7 years, its a no brainer, considering what Petey is going to ask for. That extra cap space would make the team behind him, that much stronger.
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30 minutes ago, Slegr said:
Toews is over 6 feet, 200 pound. Big difference to Hughes.
I’m not saying Hughes wouldn’t be a great choice though.I am with you on your take on this as well. For me, its all about being well rounded and part of that is being able to deal with physicality when it presents itself. Most of the time, its not needed, but when it does, you should be able to be up to the task.
Yes Linden was very good at this, he hardly ever needed it, but he brought it when he needed to. Bure was the only one I seen take some extra attention but we all know how that ended for Churla.
Overall, that team endured physicality more so then the teams that followed, and I think Linden had a lot to do with that.
I have seen many of our stars take beatings over the years and other teams know this. How do you knock the Canucks off their game? Get physical with them. Ferlund knows this all too well.
A non-physical Captain may be able to take us to War, but someone with a little more physicality brings us another dimension which may help when the opportunity arises.
I do think Hughes checks all the other boxes though,which will make him a great Captain, including taking the team first before his own personal wishes, another trait Linden carried as well.
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54 minutes ago, grandmaster said:
At the end of the day, it’s the team and coach who ought to decide. I’m ok now with whoever gets it, they know a lot more than us as to who is their best leader both on and off the ice.
I am just hoping for something new. We need a new attitude and desire to win at all costs. We have been way to comfortable with losing. If we are behind in a game, I would like to see this team find a way to fight back. A change would be good either way.
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1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:
"It's an honour to play here" This all I need to hear from our Captain.
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3 hours ago, Outsiders said:
Because Horvat accepted losing. Horvat most nights was out there playing it safe and never once brought any physicality/toughness. Nights when we were down 4-1 or 5-1 he could have fought and sent the team a message or at least presented a nasty side. Instead, he would just go out for a skate and then say postgame "we weren't good enough tonight". All post game interviews sounded the same for 5 losing seasons.
Players see the guy at the top and if they see him padding his stats, playing soft/not standing up for teammates and cheating the game what do you think they will do? Once ownership got rid of the problem our mindset of "losing is acceptable" changed to losing won't be tolerated any longer. There is a reason management put their money on JT Miller and not Horvat. They knew JT was the real leader in that room. Whether he ends up with the "C"or not, Miller will still be a vocal player that will drag the team into the fight. Something Horvat showed he wasn't capable of doing.
I am so glad Alvin and Co. seen through his BS too. To think about us keeping him and trading Miller would have taken us so far back, we would be probably looking at a full rebuild by now.
He was way overrated and didn't possess the leadership qualities that was needed to take this team into battle.
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3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:
Yeah smart move on his part. He'll make more money waiting for the cap to finally increase and see if the team isn't a complete joke and out of the playoff race by December again. I would do the exact same thing if I was in his position. Very smart move.
I have to totally respect what Horvat accomplished last year. It's obvious he put a tonne of time into working on his release and his shooting. It's also obvious he spent a tonne of time working on tips and net front play, as well as coming into camp in incredible shape. He won 958 face-offs as well for a 57% win ratio.
It seems really odd to criticize a player for hard work and a career best performance. Really really weird take actually. I sure hope Petterson doesn't come in better than last year and score 50. That would be tragic lol. What an ahole
Edit: In addition I don't know if you were following along and forgot because it doesn't suit your narrative but apparently the offer made to Horvat was ridiculously low at $5.125 for 8 years. That is no where near "fair market value", as you claim.
https://clutchpoints.com/bo-horvat-insulting-contract-offer-vancouver-canucks-trade
What's really funny is that neither of us know what he is thinking although you are acting like you know exactly what he is thinking.
If you respect Horvat in what he did to accomplish what he did last year, then good for you.
I hope he is very happy in NY.
I guess you like stats in place of team wins, thats your perogotive I guess, to each their own.
Horvat is a lot closer to 5 million then 8 million and I can tell you that for free.
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1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:
And what attitude is that?
Tired of playing for a crap team.
You know the " I am going to concentrate on the season " you know, before the season has started? This management team seem to want to pay their players "fair market value" , I am thinking Petey didn't think it was "fair market value" enough.
The only reason for the pause(contract talks) is so he can pad his stats to make his worth a little more. You know, kinda like his pal Horvat did?
If he decides to sign contracts like Miller or Hughes did, then I will admit I was wrong. If he holds out for more? Well, that remains to be seen and we will see what his real intentions are.
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2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:
I’m fine trading the first if its top 10 protected and it lands us another player like Hronek who’s young and fills a big need.
At this point 15th overall picks aren’t gonna do much for us. It’s time to start beefing up that D core or we’re gonna waste all the prime years of some really good young players.
I agree , we have to strike a balance between needs now and into the future. Getting another guy like Hronek in that age range(25-26) gives us time to draft and development players before we require replacements for them.
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29 minutes ago, thrago said:
Petey has had a couple pretty good seasons and one very good season and this is his attitude. Not a fan of that, if he had 3 years behind him like last year I could see it, but other then last year he's been as much to blame for us missing the playoffs as anyone else.
I have concerns as well. He recently was getting help with faceoffs and still needs to show he is a playoff performer. I would hate for him to sign a long term deal and is not able to carry the team in the playoffs.
His attitude is eeriy similar to Horvat. Coincidence?
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44 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:
Whats our team identity?
And aside from a skilled first line i just see a mish mash of soft players thrown together that have never shown chemistry playing with one another.
The team desperately needs a Burrows/kesler/bieksa unit to come up from the minors.
I think this will come once we get away from trying to be super skilled and build a team from the 1st line to the 4th and all the dcore lines with everyone having a role to play.
Vegas does a great job of this and I don't think we will get there until we get rid of our said "Soft " players.
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4 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:
It's because the entire team lets up, from what I've witnessed personally these last few years. It's a team identity. Honestly, Petey and Hughes might be the only ones trying in those games....
I think you are exactly right with this, when we got out of the plumber attitude where we worked hard and grinded out games, we got more talented and those talented players thought that they needed to apply less effort to the weaker teams. The problem is, that there is so much parity in the league that once you do this, it back fires on you.
This goes with the lackluster play where we hit less, back checked less, checked with our stick instead of the body and skated away from scrums.
It was very maddening to watch our beloved team get so far away from playing basic hockey and moving towards fancy plays which never had any success in the playoffs.
This newer group knows what it takes to win in the post season which has been long overdue and needed with this club.
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I don't know, there are a lot of assumptions in this article. For one, I don't think Alvin and Co. are going to give any one player the ability to dictate how they are going to plan a successful team and two, is there really pressure to make the playoffs, THIS YEAR?
Judging from how they have conducted themselves so far, they are not caving in to players demands(Horvat) nor have they band aided the line up by signing older players long term contracts.
Their plan seems to be more of a longer term plan where there is the ability to succeed with a bigger window of opportunity.
I am seeing a bit of learnng from past mistakes and not repeating them, as the order of the day. Very refreshing to see.
I would be willing to forego instant success in order to hold on to a few more draft picks and build up the future while simutaniously building a wiining team the right way.
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58 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:
Does he?
He talks a good game but his head coaching record is a losing one. I remember him as head coach of the Yotes, dont remember them as a tough, hard workers etc...
Anyway, my point is that they didn't do their due diligence. Did they intereview all candidates, did they hire the best one for the job?
The decorated JR hasn't done much to impress me either. I dont buy too much inot the country club stuff, seemed like it was just a slight to BB, I felt he dragged his ass to get us D-help when he first arrived and his handling of BB's dismissal was straight up gross.
Ok, some positives about the brass for me. I like Alvin from the litte I have seen and our assistant coaches seem great.
I know what you mean when you say soft as butter but I don't like saying it that way. We need to work harder, finish checks, improve team D but that squad had the most fights in the league, mostly Schenn, but it's a harsh diss to say soft as butter when they would often knuckle up if needed.
I think what you failed to mention is that they have won Cups in one capacity or another and that is all I am worried about. They know what it takes to get to that next level.
We couldn't even get this team to work hard or stick up for each other. RT has changed that. Alvin is bringing in players who follow that mentality as well. Can we say the same for Myers? Horvat? Boeser?
I say give them as least a full season before drawing any conclusions.
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55 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:
lol so we based whether we can compete or not against a team based on 3 games?? well then i'll say with certainty we can't compete with detroit who clobbered us 11-3 in 2 games? Demko haven't proven he can get thru playing more than 50 games a season.. he started breaking down after 50 game in the season before last and he was god awful in net the 1st half of last season prior o his injury.. and it wasn't just because of the defence.. he was letting in weak goals bad goals.. he was as awful as martin. he bounced back after the injury.. but then again we played 70% of the games against teams that are inferior on paper so who knows if he'll be back to his peak form.. so basically what you are saying.. the canucks should be competing for the pacific division title coz every other team sucks compared to us.. we are as good as vegas.. edmonton will suck coz they PP won't be as successful we are way better than the LAK and seattle should also be should be battling for the pacific title because they are probably as good as us?
I think what he is trying to say is that there is a lot of parity in this league and things like key injuries can make or break your season. I don't think we have Powerhouse teams anymore, including Vegas, that totally dominate the league. I think most teams can beat anyone on most nights, especially if they are a hard working team with a good system.
Look at the teams which got knocked out in round 1 of the playoffs last year , which included the Lightning, Avalanche and the Bruins. Those are some pretty good teams that were knocked out by some seemingly more inferior teams.
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1 hour ago, RWJC said:
No one’s being impatient at least from what I can tell. The reality is that this mgmt team’s contract dictates what they are expected to achieve in its current duration. We make playoffs, we do some damage in the playoffs, they get extended.
If after all the moves made, alllll the changes throughout the entire organization from up top all the way down to the ice, if they fail, then unfortunately the end result is likely going to be drastic change.Just because you root for the team and want to be optimistic does not deny relevant facts that others are also pointing out.
Optimism is based in hope. To become a serious team that has the capability of regular playoff hockey, you don’t rely on hope intertwined on some minor past laurels. That would just be subverting responsibility. This mgmt team has a serious agenda and if they can’t achieve it because of the players assembled on hand, the roster will change…as we have seen.
Thats what people are aware of. Fans, not just naysayers or whatever you choose to classify people who are just as passionate about and aware of the team as you are. Congrats on being positive. We need more of that. Seriously.
But don’t go negating that by being condescending to others and their perspectives. That’d make you a bit hypocritical, which you’re not.
Wanting to gut this team if they don't make the playoffs this year is being impatient. Like I said, they were assessing last year and I am pretty sure they got stuck with a few players I am sure , they wanted gone. Nothing happened with OEL, so they had to buy him out.
This year, they will try to get this group to gel , as there are many changes from last year. I am sure they are still assessing, so there will be movements made as opportunities present them selves, as how we acquired Hronek and how we were able to get a good return for Horvat.
Because they are being patient about it, we are not making rash decisions, this is not how we did business in the past with Benning. It seemed like he panicked every time he made a decision.
So should they be punished for not getting this team Contender ready in such a short period of time? I would rather they build it the right way, even if it takes a little more time. The true measure I believe, is that they improve year over year as opposed to saying that they need to make the playoffs and everything else is a failure.
Like many have said, lots of things dictate success or failure including injuries, teams gelling and contract disputes etc. Last years failures had a lot to do with our #1 Goalie missing most of the season. This happens.
Peteys situation is going to fall entirely on him as he can find a spot on this team like Hughes or Miller did?, or, he can follow the path like Horvat and see how that turns out for him.
I seriously don't want to have anything to do with him if that is his intenetions, no matter how talented he is. We all seen how much of a cancer a player or two can be when they are only thinking of themselves and not their team and team mates.
I don't think that is what he is like, but if he is, he can go and we can find a player who wants to be here and wants to be part of the solution to winning instead of blaming others for the inabiility to gain success.
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1 hour ago, stawns said:
Vegas is a bit of an enigma.......if the grind of the season wears Stone down, they could be vulnerable.
Vegas does not rely on 1 or 2 players, they play as a complete team, hence what makes them so successful IMHO.
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18 hours ago, AnthonyG said:
WE MISSED PLAYOFFS BY 13 POINTS. WE STARTED THE SEASON 0-5-2 WHERE WE LED BY MULTIPLE GOALS FOR THE FIRST 5 STRAIGHT GAMES TO START THE SEASON.
If anyone thinks this isnt a playoff team this year because of
1) Demko’s slow start
2) horrendous goaltending for nearly 4 months without Demko
GIVE YOUR HEAD A BLOODY SHAKE.
we needed f***ing 13 pts. We EASILY could have had that if we didnt blow the first 5 games and if Demko was healthy 1 week earlier.
ORIf Demko didnt get injured?
Despite Demko’s injury and length of time he was out, we only missed by 7 wins with 2 goalies sporting a nearly 4.0GAA
DOES ANYONE REALIZE JUST HOW CLOSE WE ACTUALLY WERE TO PLAYOFFS??? ANYONE?????????? My god. This was literally a matter of one health body, losing our #1 goalie for half a bloody season. Scoring was there, goaltending was not there to back it up.
For anyone to doubt this core’s ability to have an impact on winning games, please just go watch another team.
Unfortunately , your not going to convince the "DOOM AND GLOOM" Club of any common sense. They don't see that Bo was an issue, BB was an issue, Demko's injury was a BIG issue , the PK was an issue etc. etc.
We have better coaching, a healthy Demko, some anchors removed and a much improved D core.
Getting rid of Benning itself is going to prove Franchise Changing!
These guys are also so impatient its mind boggling. We obviously have personnel that obviously aren't wanted but we are stuck with them for the time being.
I think after this season, the team is going to look more like what Alvin and co. were looking for , but its by no means that team now, so why be so critical of them?
I am willing to be a little more patient and wait a while longer before thinking of tearing this team down! LOL.
Judging from past moves by NHL teams, most of their fantasy moves would never happen in the first place.
Moving 30+ million worth of players like its a video game is dreams these guys think might become a reality one day.
I am thinking probably not.
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5 hours ago, Provost said:
Well he is almost 25, not 23. He would be 26 right at the start of next season by the time that proposed trade happened.
If the team is bad, and the player won’t sign long term to a reasonable deal… what exactly is your magical answer? Qualify him, take whatever short term arbitration award and watch him walk for nothing as an unrestricted free agent after the 2024/25 season?
That is an amazing plan for success! I mean I guess if you want to submarine the team for an even longer rebuild?Maybe we give him $15 million to bribe him to stay so that we can’t afford to surround him with a winning roster?
I was talking about Hughes, who is 23.
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5 hours ago, Provost said:
I never said any such thing.
Having numerous high end young players and picks is vastly important in a cap world where you need to find contract efficiencies. That isn’t a position that sane people disagree with.
Our current core of players has resulted in terrible results on the ice year after year despite constantly rejigging the players around them.
There are few paths to improving that roster in the foreseeable future. The team is capped out, and will be for years even with significant cap inflation because of raises due to Petterson and Hronek, and the increasing Eriksson dead money. The team has one of the worst prospect pools in the league despite being really bad for a long time…. There isn’t another Petterson/Hughes duo on the horizon. We are left with just hoping for something magical or coming out of left field happening.
You also seem to counter your own argument. “How does one player make or break you?” Miller is one player…. But swapping him for several futures and allocating his cap space to other roster spots is bad?
If the team is bad this coming season again, or even just fighting to be a fringe playoff team… there isn’t cavalry coming.
Your forgetting that the new management has barely had a chance to undo some of the ridiculousness that has plagued us from the Benning era. Coaches like Willy, BB and Green were not good for us. Also, some of these players have to take responsibiity as well. Bo was not a good leader, Myers sucked as did OEL. Boeser just can't get it going and Benning was collecting small wingers and PMD like they were going out of style.
I don't expect a calvary, I don't expect the playoffs. I expect a team to start playing like a real hockey team(i.e.Vegas,Seattle) and get rid of these over priced whiney babies who only care about how much they are going to get paid.
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14 hours ago, Provost said:
I agree that it “should”… we wasted the Petey and Hughes ELC years which was a window for being competitive. If you have elite players on cheap contracts it should be a massive advantage in a cap world. If we had this roster AND another Petey/Hughes calibre duo of prospects ready to join the team it would be a vastly different outlook.
If we aren’t a dramatically improved team this year, and maybe even win a round in the playoffs I don’t see Petterson or Hronek signing long term, at least to reasonable contracts. If Petey is on a short term arb award instead of a long term deal you pretty much have to trade him. If you trade him, you should probably trade Hughes and start over.
Of course with this ownership, we would trade them for older, worse players and trade away all our high picks to try to be competitive immediately.
What! Yeah lets trade off a 23 year old phenom , in which we have been looking for for this franchises entire existence, in hopes that we may draft and develop another one down the road? That is beyond ridiculous IMO.
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15 hours ago, TFerguson said:
That's his right... obviously
But I'm surprised not to have heard more people discuss how this is a clear sign that Petey shouldn't even be considered as captain anymore. If he were the next captain then signing longterm and telling us he's putting the Canucks on his back and going to do everything in his power to make the team a winner is the move.
This whole... "I'm holding out to see if this team is worth committing too" is his right but shows he's nowhere near the leader this team needs.
.......and haven't we heard this story line before. We got rid of that character. The character of the team is huge and if he does not possess that attribute then I don't want him anywhere near this team anyway.
If you are thinking of yourself, before your team? Then its time for you to go.
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16 hours ago, Provost said:
We aren’t a contender WITH Miller…. We aren’t even being picked as a playoff team.
Unlike many folks here, I am actually interested in the Canucks winning a Stanley Cup in my lifetime.
Going all in for “maybe” squeaking out a wildcard spot and a few playoff games in round 1 before getting eliminated is meaningless to me. If moving Miller turns us from the 15th place team to the 20th place team, but adds high end picks and prospects to actually help become a high end team… and gives us the cap space to sign other players to improve the roster… why not?
Again you are speculating that these "High end picks and prospects" are a "for sure" and are again going to lead us to the promised land and how does one player make or break you as a Stanley Cup contender? Do the other 20 plus players not matter?
Look at teams like Buffalo, who pick high for many years with no hardware to show for it or Edmonton and all of their #1 overalls.
I happen to want to see a Cup in my life time too, I just don't follow the same logic you do in how to get there.
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14 minutes ago, spook007 said:
The inspired pond hockey didn't get us anything, as entertaining as the games were.
We may get some boring hockey games, but if we can win them, its a step up.
Not every game under AV was entertaining (some were calling for him to be sacked). But it gave is a memorable run...Not to mention this is the type of hockey that gives you wins in the playoffs. Maybe that why we have Presidents trophies but no Stanley Cups?
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1 hour ago, BertaNuck said:
Vancouver has Been an under performing circus media show for a few years
can’t blame him for wanting to wait and see
Oh you mean when Benning was in charge? There is new blood in town who know what they are doing for a change.
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Overall, that team endured physicality more so then the teams that followed, and I think Linden had a lot to do with that.
[DEBATE] Which player are you taking, Elias Pettersson or Jack Hughes?
in Canucks Talk
Posted
Yeah I agree, what the player agrees to in salary really talks about their character and that does play a big part in picking an option. The reasons why i like Miller and Quinn too. You can pick all skilled players, but that doesn't always equate to a Championship Team.