Gawdzukes
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Posts posted by Gawdzukes
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9 hours ago, DeNiro said:
I mean it’s obvious you’re biased against smaller players.
The fact is 50 point production is in line with a second line player. And there’s plenty of second line players that put up those stats and don’t contribute on the pk.
Production is production and Garland has been pretty consistent over the last three seasons. For comparison, Boeser has averaged the exact same amount and also doesn’t pk. Yet I think most would consider him a second liner (even if he’s overpaid)
I actually don't mind smaller players. Cliff Ronning is one of my favorite players all time. But yeah, unfortunately being small is a disadvantage like being slow. I simply don't like Garland's style at all though. He holds the puck and dicks around with it in the corners too much, and then finally takes super bad angle shots all the time. It makes it hard for his teammates to read and react and I simply find him ineffective overall. If he's not in a top 6 role he's not a good defender for a third line either role imo, and 3 different coaches have bounced him around the lineup. He's not a horrible player but in my mind paying him $5 mil to bounce around the line-up, even if he's putting up points is not a good use of cap space. Blame the coaches lol. It would also be different if we had a couple bruisers in the top 6 to balance the line-up.
Similarly I don't like Gadjovich's game at all and I find MacEwan, and Bailey even worse. It doesn't mean I don't like big players. or hockey. I'm sure you have a player or two on the team you don't regard as highly the others yourself. Do you not?
Like I said I don't care about stats and whether 50 points is a second liner or not. For me production is not production and definitely not how you decide who plays and who stays and goes. I don't let that dictate how I see the game, He's currently the worst contract we got. His money would be better spent elsewhere imho.
9 hours ago, Alflives said:If Garland is 5’8 Alf will eat his empties. He’s 5’6 at most. He’s a garden gnome. He’s a small Benning stain (more of a spot) that has to go.
I think I agree sir but I'am too busy bowing to your empties. It is Sunday after all.
8 hours ago, IBatch said:Ronning was also built like a little block. 175-180lbs at 5'7", and a much better player. The Production line, was actually one of the better ones we've had, and amped his game up in the playoffs.
Moving Linden to center gave us two legit lines. Momesso was one of my favourite role players all-time. Don't make them like that anymore. Looked like he was always coming off a bad night in jail, and he was the bad.
Don't mind Garland, he'd be better off on a different team though. Gourde is probably the best little playoff guy around right now.
Thank you IBatch. Loved me some Ronning. Don't like to admit it but Gaudreau has some of that sublime skillset as a little player too. Can't touch the guy out there without compromising the back of your net. Also couldn't agree more on Gourde. He is awesome and a big reason TB won the cup. Brian Bradley was a player I used to like too. I think he was quite a bit smaller than 5'10".
The "I don't like small players thing isn't true at all"
Like you said he'd be better off on a different team. Or, if our coaches used him to set up a killer scoring line, like Ronning, I would be way more copacetic. One thing that stands out for me is that Garland is always initiating contact with bigger players (everybody lol). If he played a more cerebral game like Ronning or Gaudreau and didn't get caught up in the boards all the time, I think he'd be far more effective as well. I've said it before. I find it very admirable that he's such a battler, but unfortunately it detracts from his game as a smaller player.
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12 hours ago, DeNiro said:
He has averaged 50 points over 2 seasons.
You’re not gonna find many third liners putting up 50 points. That would put him 5th in scoring on the Maple Leafs last season for example.Teams aren’t trading for him because he’s a small 2nd liner and there’s a cap crunch. Teams are either looking for bargains right now or looking to take advantage of cap crunched teams. If the cap were going up this season I don’t think they’d have any problem unloading Garland.
The Canucks would be wise to hold onto him. I still think there will be a market for him if he can up his points a little and the cap goes up significantly.
12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:46 points isn’t really 2nd line production. Also, if Garland was a 2nd liner he would have been easily traded. $4.95 million for a 2nd liner is good value. Problem is he can’t be traded because the rest of the league doesn’t view him as a legit 2nd liner. He’s also 5’8” on a good day and doesn’t kill penalties.
I don’t have a problem with Garland on the 3rd line, but not at close to $5 million. And not with guys like Suter and Höglander.
I totally agree. I personally don't care what the stats say, the game is played on the ice. He's not a second line guy on any of my teams and I surely don't want him on the third line as a $5 mil dollar sub 5'8" winger who doesn't penalty kill.
You could have a guy playing on the third line for a fraction of the cost and pay a real quality second liner 6-7 million.
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On 7/9/2023 at 1:51 PM, Petey Castiglione said:
Jurmo > Tryamkin
Jurmo has more drive and determination in his left nut than Trynotkin has in his whole body.
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26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:
Not a dime of public money towards any private corporations facilities.
I said the same about replacing the Saddledome.
These are billionaire owners of teams worth billions of dollars. They don't need help building facilities they just know they can get help paying for them.
We have families on the street, working professionals on the street, whole communities of people living in vans/cars while working multiple jobs, endless hordes of the addicted and mentally troubled roaming around but "some" suggest that it is viable to spend public money building a private facility for a person that could literally solve these issues for tens of thousands without harming his own untouchable net worth
let's maybe not do that
Greedy mofos
23 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:Nobody is saying publicly fund it.
No, but that's essentially the hold up. Aquilini could easily afford it but why when you can make the people pay for it?
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7 hours ago, AnthonyG said:
nearly 1/3 of Edmontons goals were on the PP. 89/325. They dropped to 4th in scoring at 5v5 with 191GF. They drop to 6th in scoring at ES.
Calgary lost their top scorer AND has a long list of guys who demanded a trade out. There is dysfunction in that locker room, sure they got rid of Sutter, but now they are going to learn new systems which they say it takes roughly 2/3 of a season to figure it all out. Sure Sutter was a large part of the trade demands, but that tells me that team is extremely frustrated and on edge. Huberdeau needs to bounce back and at some point the writing is on the walls for Backlund, Mangiapanne etc, they will want a chance to win a cup, they will look around and see the team is a bit older, going in the wrong direction and struggling to compete.Just remind yourself…. We finished 12 points out, with a 3.99GAA from Martin and our collective GSAA was -55…. The worst in the league. When Demko came back and Horvat was traded, we had a very strong record 16-7-3. JT went back to C and it was like we didnt notice Horvat was gone. That was good enough to have the 7th best win% in the league. Just think about that for a minute…. If Demko came back when he was originally supposed to and didnt suffer any set backs, how much closer to playoffs would we have been? If Demko didnt miss 1/2 the season, where would this team have finished?
There is only 1 team in that list that has a game breaker(s) and thats Edmonton. Vancouver has what is projected to be a top 3 scorer next year Pettersson = game breaker
Hughes = game breaker
Demko at his peak performance = game breaker
I dont see many if any teams in our div that have all 3. A Petey a Hughes AND a Demko. VGK makes a case with Eichel and Theodore, but Hill? He’s been a backup up until they decided to run with him in the playoffs. What will a full season look like?
I see last season as the 07-08 season and this upcoming season is going to be the 09-10 season.
I hear ya but in my 40+ years of playing and watching I think I've only seen a team sneak in once or twice because the entire set of competition shit the bed and drastically fell off the face of a cliff. They all have a tonne of but what ifs too. These are all hardcore athletes we're talking about here, and they are all as desperate to make it as we are.
What you're doing reminds me of what coaches would do when we made the final and had little chance of winning. Compliment all of your players, tell them the opposition sucks, and instill a sense of false confidence that has them come out flying to beat all odds.
I personally am pretty happy being in a position that can hopefully compete for a playoff spot. You can think we're a shoe in if it makes you feel happier about the year but I don't think it's as realistic as my assessment, which seems to align with the majority. By all means though I have no problem with you buying your playoff tickets tomorrow.
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10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:I think Drance was saying it’s hard to move the needle from the bottom of the lineup, and I’d normally agree with that, but our bottom 6 / PK was *such* a weak spot these additions have to help.
From last season, we’ve lost Bo but added Hronek, Suter, Bleuger, Cole and Soucy.
Perhaps most importantly, we should have a healthy Demko to start the year as well. It has to be better than last year. The biggest hurdle has to be finding some chemistry early after all the turnover.
Like others have said - playoffs? Not sure. But we certainly look like a much more complete team.
Drance is a fool (my contract says I must state this every time I see his name).
Haha just joking but you make a good point. I think sometimes the smaller things can lead to greater success. The PK was so deflating that being solid there can lead to more confidence and pride all around. Add that to a more stable defence and consistent third line and everything starts to work a little bit better. It then gives the top 6 better starting positions. Maybe that's the push we need to get roiling? That chemistry you mention starts with things like banding together to kill off penalties.
I'm definitely way more positive and hopeful then I have been in 6 years.
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2 minutes ago, rekker said:I'm a huge fan of Tochett and how he is operating so far, same with the assistants. Should make for an interesting season for sure.
Me too!
I loved Tocchet as a player, even though I hated the Flyers. Played every single second, played the game the right way, tougher than nails, ornery, and could score too. What's not to like?
I also love what he has done in Vancouver and the things he's said and done. Exactly the type of tough love coach, fair, who is focused on player relationships, that I completely respect, and would go to the wall for.
Some people are critical of the gambling thing which I think is ridiculous. If only everyone in pro sports and on this board had their worst moments recorded for all to see I think we'd find that RT looks pretty favorable or no worse than anyone else. All he did was skirt around the law which was bullshit to begin with and now is perfectly legal with all sorts of famous people benefitting from it. It's like when I argued with my mom for 20 years about smoking weed and now I'm her best friend's edibles (health problems) dealer.
Anyways, go Rick go, you have my seal of approval.
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16 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:
Basically Vancouver has to beat up the teams in our conference, or at least make life miserable for them. It sure is not going to be easy.
No it isn't, you're right it's going to be a slugfest. In my mind we've shored up the D, and brought in a couple bottom 6 centers, which was sorely needed. The biggest question now is can we find the gumption to dig deep and make our team hard to play against in the trenches. Obviously RT saw this as well and it's been his mantra since he got here.
For me that's going to determine our fate. Will our top 6 players, besides Petterson, find the will and dedication to out battle the other teams top 6. Miller and his leadership would go along way with the others to help accomplish this. We have the skill ... do we have the heart?
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15 hours ago, AnthonyG said:
Calgary just moved their top scorer, the team is in complete dysfunction.
Edmonton relies HEAVILY on the PP to win games. Without that PP their top 3 scorers did next to SFA against VGK.
LAK meh. How much longer can Kopitar keep leading that team at the age of 36?VGK will be strong, but I feel we can compete with them.
SJS lolANA el oh el
SEA is very well rounded.
I dont see how we cannot compete for a top 3 spot against EDM, VGK and SEA realistically. Those are the 3 teams we are contending against. I like our goaltending better, I like Hughes over their star dmen. Theodore sure makes a case for himself as a better overall dman. But is nowhere near as dynamic and as good of a skater as Hughes. We have a 100pt scorer and technically almost 2 with JT. We have 3 30 goal scorers and who knows, maybe Boeser regains his confidence and scoring touch after getting past the first year without his dad and having a solid and healthy camp.
This team is entirely capable of playoffs and being top 3 in the division the way I see things.
You are a super optimistic guy which is cool but you should temper that with reality too.
VGK ... Cream of the Comference
Calgary moved Toffoli but they still finished 10 points ahead of us, and had a down year. They could easily be better ... new coach too.
Edmonton finished 26 points ahead of us, regardless of the PP
LAK made some major moves and look to be on the rise (my biggest upward mover), only goaltending is a question, but is solvable.
SJS ... we'll see lol, could take some points off teams.
ANA ... will be strong soon but probably not this year
SEA ... very well rounded, well coached, lunchbox team (like CAR) they should be strong again.
VAN ... finished 12 points out ... remade d core and 2 middling bottom 6 centers. lost 31 goal center.
Correction: We are competing with VGK, EDM, LAK, SEA, CGY
It's possible but usually when I see people trying to downgrade others to make themselves better it's more of an indication of hopeful thinking than a reflection of reality.
I think the top 3 are going to be out of reach and we'd be awfully lucky to grab a wildcard.
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16 hours ago, stawns said:
I want to think they're seriously in the mix, but I'm also not sure PA made the moves he needed to make to get them there. They'll need a healthy dose of good luck........but that's true of all bubble teams I guess
Yup, we made some really nice and absolutely necessary moves. Whether that's enough is a completely different question.
One of my biggest fears is we've once again made so many changes. We all know it takes players awhile to acclimate to new teams. Does this mean we get off to a crap start again? I hope not. Also, besides the playoff teams from last year St. Louis isn't going to roll over and die like some people here hope, neither is Nashville, Winnipeg, or Calgary.
Realistically the odds are we finish just outside the playoffs unless we get some major improvement from within, or our new players are great compliments to what we had. Hoping for the best and at least competitive entertaining hockey down the stretch.
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22 hours ago, RWJC said:It’s called business. And in case anyone has forgotten, he has chosen to take this team on his back from a very young age. His trajectory has continuously risen in that time too. That’s leadership and commitment to the crest and the culture, but people too soon to forget that.
His first responsibility is to himself and his career. This isn’t fighting for your country in war. Agents, endorsements, market variables, etc, he has every right to choose his own destiny. It’s absurd of any Nux fan to think he OWES something to you or the team after all he’s already accomplished.
I’m someone who is loyal to a fault and even I can appreciate that.
This is such a good post. The people hating on Bo should be ashamed of themselves. He went from a third line projection to being Captain at 24 of a complete shi!t hockey team. He never complained, always faced the media, and always played hard. He became a very solid 2C, top face-off performer, eventually scoring 30* goals and netting us a haul at the deadline.
It's not his fault that he isn't more skilled, or that we drafted him 9th overall, or that our team was absolute rubbish for years, or that some fans picked on Miller. It seems like nothing more than a piss fest from salty Miller fans. Hating on Bo is like hating Bambi ffs ... lol.
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5 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:
Forsberg ain't exactly chopped liver & one can make the argument that Roy was the greatest goalie of all time. How many post-season series would the Avs have won with Dan Cloutier in net?
1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:Sakic was like Gretzky...skill player who amped things up in his performance when it really mattered. Sakic had Forsberg, Foote, Ricci, Blake etc. to play more rugged. Gretzky had Messier, Anderson, Coffey, etc. to do the same.
It's a fine line with this kind of captain. Gretzky and Sakic got the results in the postseason. Other gentlemanly skill captains like Markus Naslund and Henrik Sedin less so...but neither was really known to increase their intensity in the big games the way that Sakic and Gretzky were.
Roy or no Roy, Sakic is easily one of the greatest players of all time. In my top 3 favorite players. He could just get it done in any kind of game. Unstoppable.
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2 hours ago, stawns said:When you rebuild, you cast off older, high priced talent for draft picks and then work your way back up to prominence over a lengthy period of time through the draft
I'll bet my bottom dollar they do not do that. There will be a pretty quick turn around in Chicago, imo
To me, that's a re-tool
2019 - 72 points
2020 - 55 points
2021 - 68 points
2022 - 59 points
They've been sucking for 3 years, collecting draft picks, and getting rid of any player worth anything. McCabe, Kane, Dach, DeBrincat, Hagel, all for picks with nothing coming back for 3 years now.
That is a rebuild plain and simple. Did you notice their roster last year. What exactly were they retooling around?
Like I said now that they have a generational talent they may pull out of it sooner than initially planned but they were definitely rebuilding.
Everyone under the sun knew they were rebuilding, including the fans to whom they sent a letter.
https://www.nhl.com/news/chicago-blackhawks-issue-letter-to-fans/c-319488298
lol
I'd say case closed.
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9 minutes ago, KirkSave said:
"Whatever floats your boat eh" Does Stawns mean stubborn in hockey forum lingo?
It's absurd isn't it? Like all those draft picks they've been stockpiling for two years had nothing to do with rebuilding, or the exodus of all their good players without replacement. I wouldn't be surprised if Bedard accelerates their plan but c'mon man! lol
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37 minutes ago, stawns said:
They will use those draft picks to get players to put around Bedard. They're not rebuilding, they're retooling. No way they have a plan to get competitive through the draft somewhere down the road with Bedard in the lineup.
lol call it what you want. It's a rebuild by every definition in my books. No wonder you say they never work when you make up your own definitions.
I honestly don't really care about silly labels though. Whatever it is it is they're doing it and I like their course of action.
They've reached rock bottom, ditched every one of their decent players for draft picks, didn't re-up their aging stars and are rebuilding the entire team from the bottom up. It's so delusional I can't even take this seriously. What on earth would they have to do to move to a rebuild in your mind? Trade Berard for picks?
I don't know that I've ever seen a better example of a classic definition rebuild in my entire life.
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3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:
I take this to mean get ready for dump and chase, clog the middle boring hockey.
2 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:If that's a winning formula, then I'm all in. Tired of losing out year after year. And what is more boring, playing a tight defensive game and winning or playing a wide open Boudreau style that bleeds goals and piles up losses? I'll take tight defence and let whatever happens happen because what they've been doing for the last 12 years clearly hasn't worked.
Yup, I couldn't care less if the results are there. Winning hockey is fun. I like watching grinding hockey because it's real and dependable.
2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:"This time, however, the coach has the full support of general manager Patrik Allvin — and with it the moral authority to hold players accountable and make whatever changes he deems necessary to build a winning culture."
lol i guess boudreau doesn't have authority to do anything nor hold players accountable
Boudreau certainly didn't hold people accountable. Whether or not that was an issue in Van it's been his m.o. since he started coaching. Give the best players all the rope they want and don't ever criticize them. We saw that a lot with Miller. Instead of calling him out on his bs he always doubled down and defended him. Thankfully no more of that imo.
2 hours ago, EdgarM said:Not to mention this is the type of hockey that gives you wins in the playoffs. Maybe that why we have Presidents trophies but no Stanley Cups?
Great point regarding playoff hockey.
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4 hours ago, Tower102 said:
Chicago blew it up, come on, thats a rebuild. They traded a young Debrincat and a young Dach.
It's hilarious that anyone would claim otherwise. Arguing just to argue at that point. In reality 95% of plans fail in the NHL. Trying to label everything is silly.
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3 hours ago, stawns said:
Various proposals and I'd say, in retrospect, the Rangers offer (supposed) would have worked out nicely
3 hours ago, stawns said:Chytil will be a C and had a big step year last season........he looks like he's going to be a great player. Lundquist had a solid year in Dallas and would look great in Van. Both players would have fit a better timeline
Some people are blind to the truth at times. It's very possible that package gets us closer to a Cup than Miller does in 3 years time. Can't say for sure at this point in time.
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20 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:
I would still work hard to add a d man to this group before season opener
this D corps is not a playoff d corps imo
I would go all in with our Corp in their prime now - Petey, Hughes, demmer, Miller, Kuzy, hroneck, Milky
all in prime now
trade a two firsts, 25/26 and one of hogz/lettermaki plus a cap evener like garland or Myers after bonustargret Winnipeg - Morissey
To VAN
Morissey
Lowry
To WIN
Garland
Rsthbone
Hogz
2025 1st
2026 1st
make them offer they can’t refuse
two firsts and hogz plus Myers after bonus… I am not sure they could turn that down
beau Petey Kuzy
Podz Miller Brock
Milky Lowry Suter - that’s a SC winning 3rd line
Joshua Blugger Aman
morriseey Hroneck
Huggy Cole
Soucy Bear
that’s a playoff d corpsYou're proposals are always severely favoring us.
17 hours ago, Canuck You said:That's basically saying...
To VAN
Morissey
Lowry
To WIN
2025 1st
2026 1st
And here's some free junk..
lol exactly, it's not even junk it's manure
Not happening in a million years
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23 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
We still have holes at forward and on defence. We weren't able to fix everything in one summer. The only reason we were able to plug a few holes this summer was because we bought out OEL. We didn't move any other contracts. So we used the OEL buyout to fill 3-4 holes. It didn't cost us any assets, only the dead cap space which hopefully we can manage over the next 4 years when the dad cap is at its worst.
Next summer we should have over $20 million in cap space to re-sign Petey and Hronek and then find another 2-3 Dman and a couple bottom 6 forwards. Willander and D-Petey are probably 2 years away, so we need temporary guys in their place. Same with Raty, Klimovich and Lekkerimaki. If you include the prospects we have most of the pieces in place. Just have to wait for them to develop. In the meantime, Podkolzin and Hoglander need to take the next step. If they do that fills 2 long term holes.
Yup. We do have a bunch of money coming off so that is a very good thing. Finally the bs redundant myriad of crap negative contracts we've been mired in for half a decade are all finally almost done. Pearson, Luongo capture, Spooner, Beau, Boeser, Myers, OEL, Poolman, Ferland, King Louie, etc.. It's not hard to see why we haven't been competitive when you look at all the wasted cap space and resources. Yowch!
However, an even slate (besides OEL + Garland) is finally on the horizon!!!
I think we'll be able to address the defence since we have Hughes and Hronek to build on, plus Soucy and a couple of very good prospects on the horizon. The hardest part will be finding a couple of two way impact wingers to go along with Petey, Kuz, Mik, and Miller. We have Lekk but he doesn't really fill what we're looking for. Really hope Klimovich, Hogs, Pods, and Raty, are able to fill a couple roles as that will go along way to freeing up resources for those impact wingers we will need. I would be very happy if we got 2/3 of a third line, and/or a top 6 winger out of that group.
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14 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:
Soucy is a nice 4-5 defenseman, and we will see what Hronek can bring. Definitely need another physical forward or two. We stand the chance of getting bullied out there without Schenn.
I hope that we don't mortgage the future for another year and stay the course. We have the team to sneak into the playoffs and it would be a huge next step for this team in a tough Pacific division.
Calgary and Las Vegas are teams that have peaked already. Our peak is 3-4 years away.
I tend to agree with your timeline in theory but I think our management will really be looking at the next year or two after this one. I think our 2024 1st will be on the table and could even get traded as a rental for the playoffs. I'd prefer to build but I think we're going to be going for it again.
I like Soucy too. He's a good fit. After this season and Cole's contract is over we'll need 3 dmen. One could be Willander, and one could be D-Petey. That's really hoping for the ultimate best though. I could see us using the 2024 first on another good dman.
While that's going on we somehow need to fill the forwards with more versatile forwards. At least two top 6 forwards who can win battles against other teams top lines. Who knows how Boeser will play out. Besides Mikeyhev and Kuz that leaves us at least 1-2 impact guys. We still need a long-term 3C (maybe Raty), and we need to flesh out the bottom 6 with more size and compete. A lot of moving parts there. I agree a 3-4 year timeline is far more realistic but we'll see how they approach it.
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38 minutes ago, EdgarM said:
Amen to that, I thought after the close call in 94' it was only a matter of time before we won one. Man was I sadly mistaken.
We went from one group to the next , that Lays chip guy , Sundin, Naslund , the Sedins to Horvat and always coming up short somehow.
I finally feel we have components we never had before and we have a compilation of good things coming together at the same time.
The right management, the right coach, a PMD, a Goalie and character players to pull it all together.
It will be interesting to see what this team looks like once management has completed the changes they want to make.
We have some decent components. The next two years will be the determining factor. We need to complete the defence and totally ramp up the forwards with two way guys that can play physical. It's a tall task I hope Allvin and Co can pull off.
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4 hours ago, DeNiro said:
This is why you build a team full of young and hungry players.
OEL is happy to collect his retirement contract and just go through the motions. Exact same thing happened with Eriksson.
Lets hope Miller is built different.
If this team is hungry the nutritionist isn't doing his job.
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I'd say case closed.
Not happening in a million years
(Speculation) VGK expected to sign Max Comtois to PTO
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted · Edited by Gawdzukes
Exactly. It's way too simplistic to just look at a players counting stats. Look at our season last year. Top half of the league in goals for. We had no problem ripping off 5 or 6 goals in a game but we could not for the life of us keep the puck out of our net.
As you say there is so much more to hockey than points, like board play, pk, and defence. A player like Garland scores less than a point a game. He's maybe involved in one shift a game where we actually score a goal. What is he doing for the other 14 minutes is the issue.