Kevin Biestra

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Kevin Biestra last won the day on December 6 2015

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4,036 Gaming the system

About Kevin Biestra

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    Let Canucks management know you want King Richard Brodeur in the Ring of Honour!

    http://forum.canucks.com/topic/341067-free-king-richard/

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  1. Yeah I think I mentioned it earlier but Babych would just quit with the playoff beard after a week or so and just go with the mustache. I don't know if it was the wind drag or just out of modesty, but the guy basically had a legit beard by game four or five. This is Dave after forgetting to shave for one day in the middle of the season. Paul Coffey was actually a decent dark horse candidate when he decided it was time to throw down. Those defensemen don't play around when it comes to this kind of thing.
  2. I guess for me the issue is setting the bar at the right place, even if it means lowering or raising it from somewhere it was before. I mean, I guess we could say that Denis Savard devalues the Hall of Fame if we want the bar set only at Yzerman and higher. But if it's set there...what would there be, maybe 40 players in the Hall of Fame? I'll agree that the last 12 years or so have seen the inclusion of some guys that wouldn't have made it in before. But if the Hall of Fame were just being created now for the first time and I was asked if I want Clark Gillies and Glenn Anderson and Bill Barber and Bernie Federko in it, I would say yes. But I can't say that anyone is wrong for wanting the bar either higher or lower than me. It's completely a matter of personal taste. I just view it as an incentive to learn about players and their role in history, and so far I haven't seen anyone inducted that doesn't deserve significant study by anyone interested in the history of the game.
  3. When was Gillies...2002. Gillies is a very high class of player but I guess he's included in the group where you can ask questions about whether to induct him. But I think the same can be said of Joe Mullen (2000) and Bernie Federko (also 2002). After that, the next guy where you can "ask questions" or make some kind of case not to induct would be Dick Duff (2006) but I think the same could be said of Bob Pulford (1991) which was a very similar induction to Duff and for similar reasons. And Bill Barber (1990) was fairly Gillies-like in statistics with less Cups. Who are the next players where one can at least ask questions... Maybe Dino Ciccarelli (2010) or possibly Gilmour or Nieuwendyk (2011). Sundin (2012) and since then it's been a lot of players of similar caliber or a bit lower. Which is fine by me...there isn't anyone in the Hall that I don't want honored and that I don't think efforts should be made to have new generations learn about them. I would say that Lowe might be the lowest the bar has been set for any 1970 and beyond players. But I'm also not necessarily against setting the bar there. Whereas Carbonneau is the Hall changing things up and finally saying "okay, Selke Trophies count" the induction of Lowe is saying a defenseman doesn't need to ever be a Norris finalist or post-season All-Star or accumulate 800 or 1000 (or even 500) points. It's (I think) new territory in the modern era for defensemen where Cups can add up, basically like they did for Duff and Pulford, and as we discussed earlier it's a very fine line between Lowe and Huddy (who at least led the league in +/- one year) (or Brad McCrimmon) if that's how things are going to be done.
  4. Yeah, Carlyle is one of those guys people might assume was just in. Same with Reggie Leach...it kind of feels like he went in with Steve Shutt for some reason. Or Charlie Simmer / Dave Taylor / Rick Martin. Kind of feels like more than one player from the French Connection and Triple Crown Line is in there.
  5. Yeah there are some age-appropriate guys (prime ~1980-1992) who had the chops to be Hall of Famers if they ended up on Edmonton instead... Babych Propp Reinhart Smyl, Gradin, Sundstrom, Tanti, Pederson, Skriko Vaive Kerr Reed Larson Randy Carlyle Mike Foligno? Brian Sutter? Doug Lidster? Brad McCrimmon? Barry Beck? Al Secord? Troy Murray? John Ogrodnick? Mike Liut Don Beaupre Pete Peeters Just going off the top of my head there...
  6. As to Lowe being the last guy we'll ever see inducted with >4 Cups... Could well be, but the inductions of Carbonneau, Lowe, Wilson and Vachon might open things up for a couple of guys I have in mind. In the case of Vachon and Wilson, to me that is just finally being willing to look way back in time and right the wrong of not inducting them. With Carbonneau and Lowe, those are cases of considering new factors (Carbonneau) or allowing a little more wiggle room (Lowe). So I could see Claude Provost (9 Cups) and maybe even Pete Mahovlich (two 100 point seasons, +72 one season and...oh wait, he only had 4 Cups, I thought he had 5). Well anyway...Claude Provost then. I also think Lowe does open things up for John Tonelli as well (2nd team All-Star twice). As to Sundin... He belongs in the Hall but the only reason he was considered an automatic first ballot guy was that he was a Maple Leaf. To be honest, I'm a little surprised they haven't made any kind of serious push for Vaive with the "Toronto bonus" for careers. But yeah, I personally have Sundin behind Pierre "the Piestany coward" Turgeon and Andreychuk and probably Recchi too. To me, even if it's from playing 50 seasons with 30 points, if you get 1500 points you're in there. Andreychuk captained a team to the Stanley Cup...that's serious stuff that makes up for the areas where Sundin is ahead of him. I think this would be dropping the bar a bit too much, but Esa Tikkanen has perhaps a slightly surprising resume. Not just the five Cups, but a five-time Selke finalist and three times in the top five for post-season All-Star voting. Only three Hall-eligible players have more playoff points than him that aren't inducted. And those three all have a case (Brian Propp, Bobby Smith and Claude Lemieux).
  7. I thought he was good enough to not be scratched that often, and I thought it was worth it to try him out as a winger if he wasn't going to get used on the blueline anyway.
  8. Anderson...still 4th in NHL history for playoff points and 5th for goals. And may have retired as high as 3rd for goals (can't remember if/when Hull and Messier passed him). I'd have to say Glenn was more important than Lowe (and shouldn't have waited that long to get inducted) and harder to replace. Regular season, I'd say Lowe and Anderson were close to even, but come playoff time Anderson pulled a Linden and did it often enough that he's 4th all time in playoff points compared to 63rd all time in regular season points. Yeah, I think anyone who wins 6 Cups nowadays is probably getting into the Hall even if they have Loui Eriksson's role on the team. Hossa is just the beginning of these three-Cup Blackhawks charging the gate at the Hall of Fame. I remember there being some grumbles when Dick Duff got inducted. Six Cups but never a single vote for anything ever at the end of the season. Never scored 30 goals, never scored 60 points. Never in the top 10 for points in any season. But, like Lowe, 7 All Star Games.
  9. Hextall was the enforcer for the whole team. When Chelios took out Propp, it was Hextall that made him pay for it.
  10. Yeah, it's kind of weird that Randy Carlyle has a Norris Trophy and Kevin Lowe was never a Norris finalist. I was a little surprised to see that Lowe did play in seven All-Star Games though. That was pretty impressive. I never thought I'd see him in the HOF though. Doug Lidster is a pretty good comparable...and Doug's 63 point season would have been an 80 point season or better in Edmonton, and that would have really left an impression, as the Oilers never really had a second true offensive defenseman to back up Paul Coffey. It usually went from Coffey with 120 points to someone else (Lowe / Huddy / etc.) with 45 points or so if I remember right. Much like the Islanders dynasty where Potvin was a clear first ballot HOF'er but few people talk about anyone else from that blueline nowadays. I always said Babych would have been a 100 point defenseman and in the HOF if he had started his career with Edmonton instead of Winnipeg.
  11. I picked three guys who held the Canucks' record for ironman streaks for a reason.