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iceman64

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Posts posted by iceman64

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

    It's true that Edler would have had to be replaced but it's much easier to replace left handers than right handers.  Tanev, at 30 last year, I would have been ok with a 4 year contract or even 5 when you consider how good he is defensively and what a great puck mover he is.  And he hasn't had injury issues in Calgary.  Stecher is a 3rd pair guy who can play up the line up.  You call that middling but I would take him over Poolman, Burroughs, Schenn or Bowey.  And Toffoli showed himself as a very good fit in the short time he was here.  Consider that Benning gave up a 2nd, Madden and Schaller for a rental at this stage of the cycle.  It was a bad idea to make the deal and then he let him walk without even a phone call to the agent which compounded the error.   All it would have taken is a little respect from Benning while he was off chasing rainbows.

     

    Talk of middling, lets look at the present right side of the D corps.  You could argue that the whole bunch are 3rd pair caliber players on good teams.  They're completely void of top 4 RHD!  Don't get me wrong, defense would still be the number 1 issue but when you give up a player like Tanev for nothing, you are letting a player slide who plays one of the most difficult positions to replace. 

     

    This is all about bad asset management and just being negligent about it.  Benning was over due getting fired imo.

     

     

    Well to start off with Schaller didn't work out but was brought in like Rous to protect the assets we already had, it wasn't bad at all in that respect, for years we had the Sedins who were punching bags a lot of the time HAD to be addressed, especially towards our new Sedins in the form of Petey and Boeser, and that was the reason he did those deals but that's the best that was out there available and willing to come to a younger team. 

     Stech wasn't all that good sorry, Hughes, Hamonic, Myers, OEL are top 6 and Burr middling D same as Stech. both 3rd pairing D's, Rathbone is "experience" away from passing where is Stech was plus much better at quicker pivots by far. 

     So back to where we were before TG was fired, we still need a D upgrade which we would have already if not for the flat cap thanks to covid but no one saw that coming. However here we are either way, we need help. 

     Keeping old players with long history of injuries was not going to help us and cost us wins as they did when they went down on a regular basis, which is hard for any team having it's 2 best D out that much.

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted · Edited by iceman64

    On 12/18/2021 at 11:29 AM, Crabcakes said:

    Benning made a ton of deals this past year and last year, he let a number of glue players slide.  The result was the loss of team identity that Smyl has been talking about.  Failure to know his team is what Benning was guilty of.  

     

    The thing is, this can be recovered from but it takes time.  I think that they may have been starting to find their jam but certainly the coaching and management change jump started the recovery.

     

    Green was unable to make the adjustments necessary for what ever reason.  They were playing to cover their deficiencies vs playing to their strengths.  

     

    I feel a sense of relief because there is now trust in the new guy at the helm.  He's a great communicator for starters and the trust that Rutherford can get the job done helps the entire organization.  The team has come together all of a sudden and is playing like the team that we thought we would have.  

     

    The roster is all Bennings so give him credit.  The fiasco that was the last 2 years is also Bennings and was largely unnecessary.  Moving on from Markstrom was probably the right call in hindsight but at the cost of losing a big personality in the room.  Marky was well loved.  Add to this, the unnecessary loss of Tanev, Toffoli and Stecher and you have no need to make the OEL and Garland deal. 

     

     

    So if I'm tracking with you, it would have been ok to keep a middling D (at best) in Stech, an often injured, AGING pair of Dmen in Tanev and Edler both and they all would have wanted term? Think about that for a second, that would have been the worst thing to do. Plus Toffi would have been redundant as well with Podz showing up.. Demko making Markstrom redundant as well..

     Just no... Those were all the right moves... 

     The Nux have a horrific past when it comes to injuries, in the last 5 years especially but even before that, for years and then keeping players with long histories of injuries like Eddie and Tanev would be just asking for more.. not a good idea. 

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    When was the last time you saw an 8 year GM demoted to an AGM with the same organization?

     

    That is just a matter of self respect for Benning at that point. Being outright fired is better than that. 
     

    People seem to downplay just how much Benning was responsible for the culture that developed here on his watch. No chance any GM or PoHO coming in would want Benning kept in any capacity to poison the well.

    I disagree, if I was Benning, and I had a chance to take a demotion to get a chance to learn the finer points to being a GM from a guy like JR, I'd take that any day just as I've worked for less money in my life at time to do the same thing in my own field of work and it worked out even better than I imagined.

     I wouldn't use an assumption to back up a point especially if it's a demotion that will still keep you working and JR himself said he loves to mentor so your argument isn't 100%... 

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 12/17/2021 at 1:54 AM, wallstreetamigo said:

    Have you actually looked at who Boston drafted all those years he was Assistant GM? I still have no idea why he is highly regarded as a scout. Their drafting was garbage those years. They added practically no one from their prospect pool to continually fill holes and manage cap on their roster. Like Vancouver, almost all notable players added with any significant impact were first and second rounders. Later rounds produced little else and what they did Chiarelli and Benning frequently gave up on too early. Sound familiar?

     

    Benning became assistant GM in July 2007. He was with them the previous season as director of player personnel iirc. So his first draft involvement was 2007. Go ahead look up their draft picks his years there. 

    dude you should know as much as anyone that with the exceptions of names like McDavid, Crosby, OV etc are a crap shoot at best and even 1st overall have turned out be huge busts so the best you can do is make an educated GUESS..  some work, some don't. This isn't going to change anytime soon, unless someone has a crystal ball the rest of us don't know about..  it will remain risky at best. 

    That was and is my argument to giving away a 1st on JT Miller, why risk a crap shoot shot in the dark, against something already there and proven? 

    But of course the media and a LOT of fans said otherwise.. wonder how that dose of crow tasted? 

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    I don’t remember seeing many in the media clamouring at the time for signing aging vets to overpriced contracts. I don’t recall many fans crying for it either. 
     

    Most were calling for the inevitable rebuild. 
     

    It was really Aquilini and Benning who tried to cut those corners. They didn’t need much of any prodding from anyone. And it unfortunately wasted several years and significant opportunity to rebuild.

    I don't give a f if you remember it or not or how you remember, I followed that closely hoping for a tough fast bigger player for the twins, the last big name player was LE and up to that point he was the hope that fans wanted for the twins but I wanted someone else like Anson Carter-ish but clamour people did lots, tons of speculation, that ended up pointing out he was the last player that would fit the twins but I disagreed, wanting a tougher player for them.

    So you remember what you want to remember, exactly how you want to remember it but that's not the way it went down.

     And JB was also wanting leadership and grit which was fair because a lot of people including myself (to this day) wanted a team that wasn't soft as butter... we all know how that goes! 

     

     

    Miller is a core player

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    23 hours ago, cdgraham said:

    In celebration of a win I just want to say something I've been thinking for a while. Miller is a core forward for us and I am seriously doubting if I would prioritize any other forward more so then him, I think he is at very least equal to any of them. Definitely part of the core and identity of this team. I think he's a number one center, is great on faceoffs, pk, PP (Has points on 15 of our 20 pp goals the sharks announcer said) 

     

    I don't care that he's a few years older then some of the other core guys, he doesn't look like he's slowing down anytime soon. I'd honestly hand a blank cheque to him and sign him for 7 years provided the annual average value doesn't exceed 9.5 million. I wouldnt blink twice about giving him an 8 million 5-7 year contract. (Obviously would prefer less year and money, but I would still do it if it's what it took) 

     

    He deserves to be our highest paid player, and could set the internal cap limit too. Leading scorer since he got here its not really close. Again this year. 

     

    I think I'd rather him then the current iteration of John Tavares, and before people say 9.5 is way to high that JT is paid 11 million. 

     

    Jones 9.5, kaprisov got 9.5, point got that. There are actually lots of players that got that who aren't even remotely as good (skinner) 

     

    Point is 8 million would actually be a steal at this point. You can also tell its true by the rest of the league salivating at the thought of taking him off our hands. 

     

    13th in league scoring now, 1 point behind John Tavares coincidentally as I compared the two. 

     

    Don't trade Miller, and resign him, summary of post. 

     

     

     

     

    I sort of agree, however I think Demko is our main guy but JT is right up there...

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    So every bad move he made was him bowing to fans?

     

    Literally not many people wanted anything other than an actual rebuild except for Aquilini and Benning. 

    The first 3 of LE Rous beags.. yes for sure..

     

    Of course they didn't want a rebuild, hence stupidity, but enough people made enough noise including the media, which was actually a lot more and the usual suspects followed along and got loud enough as it still is today.. 

    Nothing has changed... at all.. stupidity still reigns and again a psuedo playoff team without depth as usual will start the process all over again and this shouldn't surprise anyone.  wooohooo!!  (eye roll)

    Let's continue the 40+ year drought since it's so much fun right? unbelievable....

     

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted · Edited by iceman64

    6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    It’s interesting how the goalposts for being a great drafter change based on perception of the person.

     

    Benning was a great drafter in Boston because he hit on 1st and 2nd round picks. Any potential GM that was discussed to take over for Benning - let’s use Gorton as an example - was the sky is falling levels of terrible for only hitting on 1st and 2nd round picks in NY while drafting Kessel, Marchand, and Lucic in one draft in Boston.

     

    If you look at Benning’s entire draft history through 3 organizations he was average to bad, bad, pretty good. He isn’t some legendary draft whisperer.

     

     

    No certainly not legendary but got pretty good at it as he progressed in all areas of the job, he just should not have bowed to the regular fan base who were screaming for a top 10 FA when the dust settled was LE after the popular destination teams got theirs, then picked up Beags for leadership, and Rous for grit and to mentor JV as an example for JV to strive to be like and better if possible.

    There were reasons why he did what he did, but anyway he should have just waited but bowed to a lot of stupid fans which Vancouver is full of now just as it was then. 

     Ditto for the same thing as TG was hired and was widely popular among fans for the youth on our team. AGAIN this is what you get when you bow to idiots who listen to the joke media Vancouver has. 

     Is this new? no.. I sure hope JR has the balls to tell people to f off when they know better than the media or fans do.

     If not, we're due for another year down in 2-3 years... blah.. same ole b.s.

     

    • Cheers 1
    • Upvote 1

    Benning ~ Not all bad (Discussion)

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 12/15/2021 at 12:46 PM, J.I.A.H.N said:

    I really feel it was time for a change. Both at the Coaching level and at the GM level, but as we go further into our season, it is becoming abundantly clear to me, that Benning had finally put together a decent club, who can compete at competitive level. Where will we end up? Well in the playoffs, I hope. The team has given us solid confidence, in their ability to compete. We have the tools! Great Goaltending, an all star Dman, and very strong down the middle.

     

    Let us remember who got us here. Let's remember that the Canucks have not added one player to the team in the last 8 games. They have always been here. That is the doing of Jim Benning. That is very applaudable. We owe a great of appreciation to JB for that. This is the good! Personnel wise, he had a plan, he drafted well, and his moves in the last several years, were to his credit.

     

    Now, to his determent, he fumble with his own UFA's loosing valuable asset for nothing, he made moves that were good, yet, still gave a bad taste, because they had future ramifications....an example would be the removal of Ericksson, Roussel and Beagel, and the acquisition of OEL and Garland.........visually, it look like a big win, but there are cap ramification on OEL and the loss of our first hurts the future. Still in the big picture Garland alone makes it look like a big win. 

     

    But the single biggest mistake Jim Benning made, the one that cost him his job, was the re-signing of Green. Coaches all come up through the ranks, and those that stay in the fraternity, find where their skill level is, some make it to the NHL, and succeed, other do not succeed, and disappear. others find that they are not head coach matterial, for various reasons, including a failure to adapt to different opposing systems, while others can not lead, others can not make hard decisions, while others can not build lines, and defensive pairings that compliment each other, and some do not have the ability to recognize talent and contributions (past/present or future) Green pretty much falls into all the above. And Benning could not or would not admit to his failure in hiring Green.

     

    People should understand that both the 1sts traded have increased in value, and a good GM, one with the ability to identify good moves, and one who has a extremely respected resume, can navigate those offers, and in the case of Miller and Garland, Rutherford "could" move them for assets, IMO, better than the picks moved for them. So IMO, there was no loss of asset there.

     

    And it will be a issue that Rutherford will have to deal with, one way or another. 

     

    Again, Benning built a decent team, but crumbled when having to make the tough decisions on Green..........

     

    Benning appeared to be an honest, and loyal man, and in the end, that took him down..........................but as Rutherford said, it will take another 2 years to fill in the holes

     

    Ahhhhhh......................another promise!

     

    But, People! Benning was not all bad!

     

     

    Yeah and if I was Aquaman, I'd have directed JB to let go of TG and his coaches less ian Clark.

     Brought in JR as head GM and JB to AGM.

    Brought in Bruce like he did.

     We'd be in this exact position BUT it still won't matter if we don't toughen up this roster somehow  

    IF we made the playoff's this year we'd get eaten for lunch... 

     

    • Cheers 1

    Rutherford’s answers to our issues...

    in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing

    Posted

    28 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

    I really do like Doughty and think that we need a proven d-man like him....  however I don't want to touch that contract at all.  

     

    There's just no way that anything like this happens.  It's extremely rare that a team will ever retain 50% of a contract, let alone one that's as big as Doughty's.  

    and at 32, no thanks... just no.. 

    Rutherford’s answers to our issues...

    in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing

    Posted

    6 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

    OEL's contract is already going to be a problem in a few years. Do we really need another?

     

    I really doubt LA is going to eat 50% of Doughty's contract to have him play for a division rival. I also doubt Doughty would ever agree to play here.

     

    If LA is in sell mode and getting younger why are they bringing in a nearly 29 year old JT Miller?

    Actually OEL may or may not be a problem, a problem if covid keeps the cap down then yes but if it doesn't, a top pairing D will be his cap or more in a cpl of seasons. Especially with the calibre of forwards there are and on the way. 

    It's all to do with the cap, we already lost 2-3 players that 10 mil of projected cap if covid never happened. We'd be much further along as a team BUT it's not looking good. Next season's cap is only 1 mil raise (projected)

    but again who knows but OEL was worth every penny and Garland coming along with him was great! 

    Canucks place Luke Schenn, Juho Lammikko on COVID-19 protocol, Both test Positive

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted · Edited by iceman64

    On 12/14/2021 at 11:26 AM, canuckspride said:

    And here we go again... 

    yeah I'm thinking if it starts getting worse it may involve the bubble again... ugh! If there's a positive in this and I know just a sample size of what I got to see in the bluejackets game was a few very noticable shifts by Juulsen where he stuck to his check and covered him well as the play shifted and from being heads up on a swivel, he dropped back, covered his check and never lost position for the following play. Plus he has a look about him, like ummm oh yeah, the Darcy Hordichuk look.. like I dare you.. I'd be down.

    Just a mean tough 'i could F you up look" but I didn't get enough watching of the whole game to see how he did before and after that series of plays I noticed.

     But the positive in this is we're getting a look at him we might not normally have had and he might be able to stay on the roster. Would be nice to see a guy improve the team on D out of seemingly nowhere but who knows... one can hope.. 

    • Cheers 2
    • Upvote 1

    The Lob or aerial offence.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 12/14/2021 at 1:29 PM, iceman64 said:

    I'd rather see the players work harder to get themselves positioned to be open  plus faster shorter passes are less likely to get picked off and more time for a player to get back to cover if something goes sideways.. 

    I haven't watched the red wings as much as I used to but they were extremy good at it and had a fair amount of success using it just like the Wayne Gretz. oilers used to do as well. 

     Quick and easy faster passing would serve this team well, hope BB bring that in. 

    That's been my gripe for awhile and often time is well telegraphed and only recently did they even start to clean that up but needs a lot more work still..

    The Lob or aerial offence.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 12/14/2021 at 10:34 AM, HKSR said:

    We need to get creative on the offence people!

     

    A new set play... Petey lifts the puck onto the blade of his stick and dumps it into Podkolzin's pants in full flight.  All 6'4" of Podz flies into the zone past the the bewildered defencemen, and with Miller in one fell motion takes the puck out of his pants, throws it onto his stick and passes it for the one-timer for Miller. 

    Podz isn't 6'4.. (I wish!) 

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