iceman64
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Posts posted by iceman64
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On 4/27/2023 at 9:18 PM, Alflives said:
What? It’s not arguable Gillis was the GM of our mist successful teams ever. And Benning was GM of some of our worst.
Benning did bring us a new core. The new management is like Gillis. They are taking over a good core, adding a couple key pieces and retooling the supporting cast. IMHAO they will be as successful as Gillis.Ok I'll try to make it more clear, sure we were successful under MG but he locked in 13 NTC's including Luongo, which handcuffed us for years no matter who our GM would have been. After 2012 our core was broken but we were stuck with it.. and look how long Luongo took to get off the books, that was horrible.
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10 hours ago, EdgarM said:
I mentioned this before in another post. From 2014 to 2021 we had rookie NHL coaches. From there , we went to a Coach who is used to coaching veteran NHLers. Players such as Boeser and Horvat knew nothing other then what these guys taught them.
They are seeing an entire different approach from the Coaches now. From the coaches all the way up, they have had success in the past.
We have gone from almost a decade of no plan, to competent management who know what it takes to win.
Benning and Co. did a lot of damage which is going to take time to fix.
Yeah we need to dump JB's screw ups?! Get rid of Demko, JT Miller, Boeser,Petey, Hughes, Podz, Hogs, etc etc yeah their all bums holding us back they suck right? Horrible players!! Damn JB never did a single thing right ffs!! Omfg lmao!
Seriously? Give it a rest man.. he was a rookie GM when he stepped into the worst $hitshow broken team and was expected to turn it around with 13 NTC's who were beaten up and needed to be traded right then but we were stuck with them.
Plus being a Canadian team with high taxes not LA, New York, Pitts, etc etc..
and holes had to be plugged to at least keep us relevant sort of so people would still be in the seats and that's why we kept the Sedins so picks had to be traded a lot just to keep that going and keep the odd one as contracts came off and that went on for years and years plus Luongo on the books for years.
No he wasn't perfect but he did pretty damn well sometimes in circumstances of a job you couldn't have paid me enough to take.
He shouldn't have been here in the first place, but it was the long terms by MG that killed us for so long.
If you think it could have been done differently from 2012 onward with contract law in mind, or any GM in the NHL, I'd be pretty impressed to hear how it would have been done and yes that includes Luongo..
Don't be shy, tell me all about it
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In the middle of things, i'd like to see Boeser, Garland traded for picks or RHD prospects that we can develop and keep or trade as needed and keep going after more of it until we not only have solid pairings but depth as well then more G prospects after that.
Then go back to forwards depending on how our previous draft picks and signings do but being realistic, it's not to hard to see that we will be doing a lot better in a cpl of seasons and getting better and better.
My fingers as crossed for Klim to make it and if there's a guy to help with that it's Tocchet.
At any rate I don't think any of us will be surprised when Boes and Garland are traded to stock the farm a bit and shed some cap.
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On 4/24/2023 at 12:33 PM, CanucksJay said:
Im a big Burroughs fan. Love guys like him and schenn that gives some respect and credibility to the team.
That being said said, the Dawg rating doesn't capture the importance of him to say Hughes for example.
A really simple way to consider this would be to say look at the hits stat.
Schenn out hits Hughes by a wide margin.
But if my custom stat gave hits a 90 percent weight vs controlled zone exits at Like 10 percent, you would think Schenn is more valuable than Hughes.
The problem in all of this is that we don't even know what variables and weight Faber is giving to any of these stats.
A team definitely needs tough guys that can hit and block shots. But they also need elite skilled players.
I would wager that an elite skilled player is a rarer commodity than a physical player.
That's why I think the Dawg rating is stupid. Every team needs a dawg or 2. Maybe even 3.
So maybe this stat is only pertinent when looking at filling the role of a dawg and evaluating 2 dawgs when looking at free agency.
However Faber compares all players on the same Dawg scale and that is why this whole thing is stupid.
That's Chris Faber for you.. much like all the other hacks calling themselves "analysts"
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16 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:
Yes, things could be worse like when MG departed and left us with 11 or 13 NTC's - if memory serves me correctly - and I agree 100%, that after watching several 1st Rd. playoff games that our soft Euro-Centric Team of Regular-Season Finesse Kittens would be torn to shreds in 1 - perhaps 2 games flat.
I can barely count on one hand the number of players on our team with any inherent "Fire in the Belly" that is essential to survive round after punishing round of playoff hockey. It's been too long since any players on our team have faced real adversity and highly physical play - having only played one year of playoff hockey in the last 7 or 8 years (and will be close to a decade next year if we actually make the playoffs) and so they've become a bunch of small, slow & soft - spring time golfers.
Even JR eventually couldn't deny and hide the facts and broke down a few months back - finally admitting openly that he needed to get this team built Bigger, Faster and Grittier so we'd have some sort of chance of getting out of the basement of the league - which hopefully Tock-It can assist with too.
Yep, well we have enough scoring punch that's actually starting to play (sort of) a better 200' game that we've needed all along but sooner or later lack of size will get exposed as it has so glad it happened so at least it can be addressed but can JR pull off the balance point so we can become Elite at the top 5-10 team. I really can't say but it's going to be a long summer waiting to see, but if we can replicate the 2011/2012 roster which basically was a bigger, faster forechecking team that forced turnovers a lot that led to goals like it's been against US ever since especially at the beginning of this year with Demko out and half the D out, it was feast time for opposing forwards.
We're not far off actually BUT we still need the same thing, and depth seems to be growing but if it's traded away and picks as well, we're screwed.
Idk though, trading away Schenn wasn't a step in the right direction, the guy was the perfect 3-4 pairing D but maybe he was going to ask for a huge raise or something we couldn't afford.
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3 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:
No surprise that they've already purged two of the four bottom Dawg's and the other two are high-up on most "Normal" Canucks fans "Wish List" to go next!
Yeah it's not really news but Garland as well, I like him but he's inconsistent and on the smaller side when we need to get bigger and tougher which I'm a fan of, the game the other night was a classic case of post season brutality, FLA and Boston and it's something most people forget, soft teams gets smoked as we of all franchises should know..
Idk about you but it way past old, get us some depth along with the 2011/12 roster and we'd at least have a better shot of actually getting somewhere. All those long term contracts by MG handcuffed us for years and years! Glad to be back on the right side of things and actually actually be able to finish building a roster with depth... Wow, hard to fathom! We've never once even had a team with depth.
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9 hours ago, Boudrias said:
There was a video clip yesterday that showed a line up in front of a Russian recruiting office that had to be 3 blocks long. Popular belief in the west that Russian youth don't support the war and are looking for anyway out. It appears the reality is opposite to that.
9 hours ago, Boudrias said:There was a video clip yesterday that showed a line up in front of a Russian recruiting office that had to be 3 blocks long. Popular belief in the west that Russian youth don't support the war and are looking for anyway out. It appears the reality is opposite to that.
Part of the poster under your post addressed some of that but you also have to realize that the Russian economy is tanking and a job is a job, and you have to know they think they won't get killed or wounded the way the war is going so well for them, yes that's b.s. but I'm pretty sure that's the b.s. they've been told and believe, no way would someone volunteer knowing full well that the odds of coming back are slim to none and their not even protecting their country like Ukraine soldiers who would and do die for their country.
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Might be another coach out there they really like and negotiating or plan to soon or move someone up, I think the former, but I doubt AL would oust someone without a plan laid out ahead of time in that direction.
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17 minutes ago, The Lock said:
You're giving them way too much credit and I'm actually guessing a lot less than you realise.lol I've been following the Ukraine war since day 1 cheering for Ukraine and I've looked closely at what's been going on inside Russia ever since.
There's a ton of footage of interviews of Russians on the street who literally think the Ukraines are... well words I can't say here. Now, generally, the older the person, the more prone they are to propaganda, but there are still a lot of young people who have stated they are for the war there.
Then there's the numbers. Now, keep in mind these numbers are theoretical but they do some from professional sources. The youtube video in particular I saw this from was a US military commander I think but I doubt I could find it now. Also should be of note that this would be from the beginning of the war. Anyway, you're going to likely have about 20% or less for the war, about 20% or less hard against the war... and then 60% or more who just want to live their lives. That 60% doesn't mean they are not susceptible to the propaganda and, if that's still all they hear, they'll likely believe some, or even a lot of it.
If you need more proof of this, all you have to do is look here in Canada. What is the mindset of a lot of people in rural Alberta? There's a lot of far right people there right? There's also a lot of hockey players from those parts. There are even hockey players who have shown some questionable opinions. This is in a society that has less propaganda. Russia has a ton more propaganda. If we still have radical people in Canada without a government creating propaganda (or at least a lot less propaganda), what do you think it'll be like in a country where the government does run propaganda?
I don't doubt you have the greatest of intentions in wanting to think Russians know what to think. You just have to look at the logic behind things to know that not every Russian's going to catch on. We have Canadians who don't even catch onto logic and they aren't prone to the same propaganda. Some will figure things out of course, but some won't. It's the harsh reality behind it all.
Well part of it I think that your missing, and before I start that I don't disagree with most of what you said, look at Rump and the USA, there's proof too but in Russia you can get harsh treatment of anti-war sentiments so I think that plays a big part but again, how big? No one can really know for sure but I like the idea of reality that says at least some of them know, I just think the true numbers are somewhere in between our thoughts and opinions, somewhere in the middle but as a Russian you can't really speak your true mind about much at all if it goes against the Kremlin good ole' boys club and their cronies.
What the scary part is how deeply the lines are being drawn as in Ukraine and NATO vs Russia and China etc..
I highly doubt it would ever go nuclear since no one wins but it could get ugly and bigger very easily... Much like the riot when we lost the cup! Lmao!
Ok in all seriousness, yes I've been watching the war since day one as well, seems to me when the Wagner group gets exhausted and loses a ton of troops which they are, and more Russian enlisted reg people get killed and wounded more and more, it's pretty hard to cover that up. I think if Wagner didn't exist and it was regular Russians getting KIA, I think a lot more people would be against it but Wagner soldiers are a certain number and are being whittled down, then the truth has to come out once they need to be replaced.
Idk but I agree with your point of people being easily misled, I just think as soon as it hits harder i.e. if another draft happens from Wagner depleted and the 1st draft as well, shite might just hit the fan a lot more.
Like Hitler, Putin can only hold the truth back for so long. Yes if course there's always diehards who want to keep believing but hopefully that will diminish.
Here's my stance on it at the end of the day Go Ukraine Go!!! Hope you liked the assault rifles!
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2 hours ago, The Lock said:
This all depends though on if you're a Russian buying into the propaganda over there or not. It's easy to assume they'd know their leader was a psychopath over there. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like all Russians, not even all young Russians, realise their government's been perpetually lying to them.
I disagree, think Russians have figured out their being lied to but how many have figured it out so far? Your guess is as good as mine but their catching on, maybe slowly but maybe someone will put a bullet into that guy yet and it would fitting as F for it to be one of his own people to do it..
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23 hours ago, The Lock said:
My guess is it might still depend on how much money someone has to bribe the government not to draft them. I can imagine there's still likely a lot of men with incomes way less than the average KHL player that would be drafted 1st, but I could be wrong in that too.
Pretty sure if you knew you had a legit shot at making the NHL, you'd have left Russia by now or as soon as possible. I doubt that's a worry for most, maybe some but, if I knew and the leader of the country was psycho, I think I'd be gone and not look back unless family was threatened or something and I wouldn't put it past them but if your like me and already lost family and out on my own ever since, I'd be all over that as a big, long, highly paid vacation for years, in a heartbeat!!
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4 hours ago, stawns said:
Sound like a penalty magnet to me
As long as he protects our guys and once word gets out it's not open season like the Sedins and the Rat.. and NOT Bertuzzi protecting Naslund either, think Brashear for sure, he played ok.
Or even Gino for Pavel but that just needs to send a msg that you play that way against us, your gonna pay!
We just can't be soft at end of the day.. that's just never ends well.
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4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:
Especially in the playoffs
Yep, or anyone taking liberties out on our guys period. I miss that guy, is was almost like having a Brashear in the line-up. Pretty intimidating, love what he did to Dallas. I was Giddy watching, I can't believe we lost him. I hate Willy D to this day.. moron..
But I'm not sure management has the motivation to get another guy like him and have a decent "sized" roster when all out war starts in the playoffs. People don't realize if we took on the Preds, they'd physically destroy us!
And to win, you know they would but hey we like a soft skilled regular season roster with no depth because we sold the farm to get it. As usual, we usually don't stray from the norm, yeah we've had a bigger team here and there but again with no depth either so that didn't work.
Oddly from a business point of view, whether reg season sold out shows all season long but only one playoff round made Aquaman happy enough not to care about deeper that much to talk to management to toughen us because it was painfully obvious the creampuff roster exposed by getting run over in the post.
I miss our 2011 roster, if it had depth we might have pulled that off, same against Buffy and Chicago. Sigh... Maybe one day..
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On 2/2/2023 at 4:47 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:
Omg if only! Dare anyone to park themselves in front of Demko with him there!
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On 4/14/2023 at 1:22 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:
Except LE was *NEVER* good here. Even a guy like Myers was pretty solid *FOR US* for a period of time (OEL too!) before the wheels fell off.
LE played 2 good games here, the one I saw the last game before the Twins retired and I heard they had another one but I didn't see it, pretty f'n pathetic especially when we needed a player who actually earned that kind of bling but the on off switch, idk wtf to say about that kind of b.s.
For that kind of money, the on switch should be permanently ON unless your injured and not 100%
Most players make in a game or 2, what most of us make in a year of 9-5, that's my beef, I'm not jealous, they just need to play like it.
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On 4/14/2023 at 12:52 PM, Strawbone said:
I don’t think too many people are upset. It was disappointing for me at first, and then honestly it made me feel better about having traded him away.
Good point but I'll ad to that if it helps even more, we kept the guy that always bring intensity good or bad, yeah sometimes he let it get the better of him BUT his intensity and drive are what this team needs more of every night or close to it as humanly possible so not losing him did us a lot of good, we did well, so you can feel doubly well about it. Not to mention what we saved in cap on all the time he played underpaid until this coming up season. Anyone who scores 100 points a season? Well all it takes common sense to know what that kind of money that normally costs to put on the ice, nevermind game winning goals in clutch mode. Like Kuz and Petey...
Yeah JTM, glad he's the one we kept.
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6 minutes ago, iinatcc said:
I like how we are all bashing the media for reporting issues in the locker room and calling them out for spreading rumors.
Yet now Horvat leaves the team says something (which he apologized for) and how all of a sudden apparently there are locker room issues.
Funny how we like to pick and chose the narrative we want to believe
in Sportsnet 650 Another former Canuck Brad May defends Horvat and to summarize what he said:
- Horvat gave his heart out to the team
- Horvat loved Vancouver
- He wanted to sign an extension and was hurt that he was going to be traded
- He did not need to apologize, he's part of a new team and has every right to stick it to Vancouver
Ok so the beast we saw during the bubble who literally took control over a good portion of the games in Vegas suddenly took a vacation and was never heard from like that since. That's a LE move.. I'm glad we kept Miller!
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#1 reason I liked Shane, not one to pull punches physically or verbally.
I was never a big Bo fan to begin with, when he said he just "jacked" by a big Demko save in a game, I thought wtf?? You have millions of reasons $ to be jacked without it! Un F'n believably classless move saying that shite, true or untrue, and I'm glad Bo took flack like that vs keeping his opinion to himself!
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4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:
Agree completely, but now, they are locked into the aging core for another 2 - 3 years since they gave Malkin and Letang full NMC's last summer.
They need to trade both of those guys and get more first rounders back and reset the team.
True but you have to take into consideration of their ages and what kind of cap. Not a lot of teams would want to take that one I don't think or have the cap space to do it and if they did you'd have to wonder if both players would want to play for a team that either dumped salary to pick one or both up or simply have a lot of cap but not a good core or supporting cast that would support players like those two..
Hard to say really, who knows.
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16 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:
I don’t disagree with the approach you state and feel it flows from the top seeking playoff revenue and the ‘get in the playoffs and anything can happen approach’. But JB traded picks like skittles and didn’t build up our prospect pool. Too may firsts and seconds traded. I want a consistently competitive team more than the playoffs; short term gain is a losing strategy.
Yeah but if you were in his shoes and trying to do two things at the same time especially after being given a long list of NTC's that were basically done and broken, so your tasked with keeping people in the seats and re-tool building, whatever you want to call it but to try and move forward until we finally got a clean slate, every move he tried, had of worked out for us we'd be in the playoffs this year or a lot closer towards what will put us strong in the post but trying to juggle both and guys just not working out as expected, we can name a few but yeah occasionally given a chance to further the process by trading away a draft pick is what a lot of GM's do, a calculated risk and that's the best you can do.
Anyway, sure JB made some mistakes as a rookie GM and could have done better if he simply a successful assistant GM who spent a lot more time "looking forward" so GM has a lot easier of a time making important decisions to mentor him in negotiations or do it for him. That was his biggest Achilles heel until he got better at it but it cost him his job in the end, whatever... He did a lot of good things too and like when he moved us forward to where we needed a better supporting cast to stand up to the Elites and now we're there but have depth to trade as in Boeser/Garland especially now it's not scoring we need, this time it's D, can JR pull something off? Idk but if we get said tweaks we all know we need , we might have a good roster and some depth for a change, but at least JB supplied a pretty good product to build on..
Petey.. Demmer.. JT.. Huggy.. Podz.. Klim.. etc etc..
Quietly optimistic about next year but it certainly depends on what management does
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7 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:
I am not advocating tearing it down... I am pointing out that through a series of circumstances, the team underperformed.
But instead of accepting the fact there is no way they'd make the playoffs and optimizing their drafting options, management/ownership decided to put the money on a futile chase of an impossible target... the playoffs. (so we are told... as I said, I think it is ownership being a bunch of money grubbers who can't see further ahead than their next set of box office receipts)
Short sighted is the best description.
Well it's hard to tell about ownership/GM dynamics other than assuming JR and AL "demanded" full reign to turn the ship BUT to what degree is up for debate.
Ok so from my viewpoint, we always get close to greatness and with development work that could have gotten us a cup or 2 by now but each time we get shot in the foot by lack of depth as the gruelling playoffs cause injuries and season destroys a well put together roster.
I'm just so tired of the same ole happening year after year after year since day one... Yeah I've been around watching that long as omfg this has got to stop! A depthless great season roster is nice to watch, high division standing to finish the season then ousted and nothing..
I'd rather us build and scout the right players to we have a good balance of speed skill and grit, whoever does WITH depth wins a cup, that's where we need to be working towards and it's coming (I think) at least we're signing players that could turn into something instead of free agent$ like always, and shooting for the odd ELC as well to help with cap and she'd cap now but we need to size and toughen up without sacrificing skill.
Hmmm.. that would be a switch wouldn't it?!
I like the looks of our top 9 but we'll see changes again by next season so jury is out for now but if we can upgrade D and upgrade bottom six, and depth for it, pretty sure that would give us a decent playoff team but our G depth is questionable now as well.
Losing Demko for a lot of the season proved that so..
I guess we have to wait and see..
P.S. I'm still hoping that Klimovich can make a push, been reading his game is trending upward especially his 200ft game and providing scoring. He mentioned a "humbling experience" so far and learned consistency from it and learning to read defensively.
I reallyyyyy hope he ends up here under Tocchet he could change a lot of the dynamic if he can be 3rd line threat who could move up and not miss a beat, his shot, I love it, fast release and lethal..
One can hope..
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1 hour ago, *Buzzsaw* said:
There is a really good chance the Canucks will pass Detroit if they win tonight... and compound the exercise in futility which characterised the last 1/4 season of 2023.
Detroit is already losing to Tampa... and if the Canucks win, a tie will see the Canucks ranked higher in the standings.
The fact the Canucks have a good chance of picking 12th is a excellent example of how this management has botched the season not just once, but TWICE for this team.
Not only did they not recruit a decent set of D-men last summer, the key to improving the team's play, they then did not assess and accept the disastrous set of losses which resulted from Demko's injury and the inadequate play of Martin and Delia as replacements.
Instead of realizing this season was a washout, they waited till it was too late to make the playoffs, but early enough to see enough improvement to squander a decent pick, and replaced Boudreau with Tocchet. The inevitable 'coach's bounce', plus the much better results from Demko's return has raised the team in the standings from the #6 position, where their chance at a really good pick was excellent, to either 11th or 12th, where their chance at any impact player is basically negligible.
The rationale behind this second poor decision was apparently 'team building' and a 'new system', but in fact, it probably was more mundane... the owner wanted fans in the seats.
Waiting another 10 games before firing Boudreau would have made no difference to team building or installation of a new system, there would have been enough games remaining to allow that. On the other hand, another 10 games of bad results would have firmly cemented the team in the basement and provided a guarantee of a good pick.
For those of us who have been Canucks fans since the late '70's, and who have seen this pattern for quite a while, it becomes very frustrating to watch what management has done for the last 10+ years.
Maybe we will get lucky and win the lottery, maybe some low pick will miraculously blossom, but right now things don't look good.
We have some fine young pieces, but not the totality which is needed to be a real contender. And if the Canucks start to make the playoffs the next few years, the chance of finding those extra elements needed to put the Canucks over the top are remote.
Ummm I don't think your noticing that management seemed to be fine with this year ending up with a better view of where we are cap wise and what to do about like trade in the off-season, Boeser was huge in that, he's played a lot better and Garland probably won't be here next season and do a trade for D +/- prospects/picks so saying remote is kind of off a bit, it's that to a lesser degree because we can trade BUT depth is our bigger issue.
Can we become relevant is any cup conversation within a cup of years? yes IF JR and AL just focus on building depth and shoring up the D corps and Gonchar is as good for D is Ian is for Goalies.
And the most important, management says F you to the "sell the farm" win it all once crowd..
but that remains to be seen, hasn't happened in franchise history, not expecting it anytime soon. It's only remote if we keep this b.s. up
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20 minutes ago, johngould21 said:
Do you really know this for sure? I do remember Bruce taking part in the recruitment of Kuzmenko, was that one of his meetings? It took Tocchet getting a healthy NHL goalie back to get to his (Tocchet's) current record. Bruce had an injured Demko and two AHL fillers between the pipes until the New Year. That's the only difference in the system that I'm seeing on this team. They're still playing dump and chase, and even on a power play no less. The pk looks no different other than Bo isn't taking faceoffs. They still get into fire drill mode. I still see guys like Myers, Miller, Boeser, and Garland panic and get rid of the puck like a hot grenade. I hope you're right about Tocchet's system beginning next fall, if not, expect more of the same.
Sorry to interject on this one but I think Kuz doesn't really factor into the Tocchet/Budreau comparison but I'm pretty sure the dump and chase and panic on the PK and D is old habits that still haven't been broken yet but you can see the other side that Tocchet brought in Gonchar and we're finally starting to see the difference but it's still a work in progress.
Past that, it's up to the coach to get the players to buy into playing and executing said systems "all in"
Not to mention, a working farm that threatens roster spots if roster players decide they can slide.. "cough cough LE cough cough"
At the end of the day, as long as players buy in and we can see their potential or lack thereof that we know where tweaks need to be done, (long term minded) we'll be that much further along.
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19 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:
Hmm, I think JB locked in and traded for some more locked in contracts, so yes, epic fail by JB to trade away so many picks, deplete our prospect pool and get us aging slow players in return. Current management has their hands tied but I do have some faith in them.
He didn't deplete our pool btw so epic fail on you this time! Lmao! Pool? What f'n pool did we have when he took over?
We didn't have any because as usual lots of completely stupid fans demanding a one and done and sell the farm to get it.. you want to point a finger, fine, point it all where it needs to be. From the owner, on down there's enough to go around but for once in this teams entire history we might have a chance to actually build a farm that produces so we can keep our picks and keep going with it long term because where the F has it gotten us so far?
Nowhere except a small amount of success but no cup.. it's not working!
People wanting a one and done will just keep us getting the same ole because their the majority, sadly...
I'd rather us be in the running every year as an elite team instead of a great season, and bounced out first round or not make the post at all because of lack of depth.
I think next year we get the best Boeser
in Canucks Talk
Posted
Pretty much think he's not going to be here next year anyway.. Garland as well..