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oldnews last won the day on April 25

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  1. lol. Botch's word never counts. Capiche? btw, who is CDC?
  2. your very own internet. "if" "if" "if"..... trading Sutter is and will be the difference between Stanley Cups and first round sweepzzz!!
  3. what's idiotic is not knowing what was offered and yet thinking Benning is an 'idiot' - and here's the crucial "if" - if he didn't accept 'good assets' - whatever that means. obviously he wasn't offered enough.
  4. [Signing] Canucks sign Elias Pettersson

    Really good points imo. Every player is going to get hit, and he'll be no exception, but how easy that is, and how frequently, he'll have a large say in. I realize their was the enforcer element in the Gretzky era which I think people overestimate (and many probably weren't around to watch hockey then) - but regardless, the reality was that Gretzky was exceptionally difficult to get in a position to hit. As Denis Potvin, one of the greatest players in the history of the game put it (don't know that exact wording, but it was something like this): 'Trying to hit Gretzky is like trying to bodycheck a rope.'
  5. what do you know about the dressing room? you don't build a top 6 instead of a bottom six. you build both. And the better your shutdown forwards are, the better and easier the sledding will be for your young top 6. playing them off each other is pointless. names, draft position, loyalty - all just blah blah noise that has no relevence to Sutter's value to this team.
  6. Ingredients for successful playoff team

    I think you need to add an element of team-defense and the importance of your shutdown units to your list. yes, scoring does tend to be more limited in the playoffs, so you'd better be able to handle the opposition's best, and limit their scoring in turn. Hard to play against involves more than just 'grit' - and the better your 'bottom six' is at shutting down an opponent and generating territory, the better the chances of your own top 6 capitalizing.
  7. you need to lose the irrelevent narratives and think about actual team-building. names and 'loyalty' have nothing to do with why you'd keep Sutter. try to address the actual merits of the player and what he specifically brings to a young forward group.
  8. [Signing] Canucks sign Elias Pettersson

    Dave Semenko could not prevent Gretzky from being hit. All an enforcer like Semenko could do was react after the fact. Semenko was literally on the ice a fraction of the time Gretzky was. People overestimate the 'protection' elements of the enforcer era. Look - if Ken Linseman ran Wayne Gretzky, he didn't answer to Dave Semenko. Semenko dances with the opposition enforcer and justice was allegedly served. But rat agitators had an X on Gretzky's back every single shift of his career - that is the other reality. A number of posters have made the point that the Coil had a Semenko or McSorley. They are not what made Gretzky nearly impossible to hit. What made him so elusive is that he always knew where the opposition was - and while not an outright fast skater, he had elite quickness and lateral movement. The reality was - the Edmonton may have had a heavy or two - but look realistically at their rivals: ie the Lames Tim Hunter Jamie Macoun Neil Sheehy Joel Otto Jim Peplinski Paul Baxter Handfuls of 200+pm guys. Elias will be facing a different kind of threat though - he'll be facing relatively faster, more skilled bottom six forwards who are still physical, so while the heavy elements of the Gretzky era will largely be absent, he's still going to have to be highly aware and he's going to get hit - but he can seriously mitigate that with awareness and quickness.
  9. Canuck Young Forwards: Assessing 2017-18

    Gaunce had literally unreal defensive numbers last year. 14.9 % offensive zone starts is relatively unheard of for young forwards breaking into the NHL, That's relatively extreme for even veteran shutdown guys like Sutter or Malhotra. His corsi was 46%. Those are outstanding possession numbers in that context. His on-ice goals against was 1.7 per 60 minutes - the best on the team - and literally outstanding in the context of 14.9% ozone starts. People that get caught up on Gaunce's production miss his value entirely. He's being developed into an elite level shutdown forward - on that can turn territorial disadvantage into ozone starts for the top 6. That is a valuable role player on any NHL team - and when you can do that at the level Gaunce was as a 23 year old - that is exceptionally promising. When you also factor in that he's a very good skater - that he weighs in at 217 lbs - that he's a natural center (so he has the groundwork of a great defensive game, with upside) - and has taken faceoffs his entire career - he makes an ideal winger conversion and second faceoff guy on your shutdown unit. You also have the ideal left handed draw to complement Sutter as a RH center. Those two give you the makings of an elite shutdown unit, with the possibility that Gaunce succeeds Sutter in the future giving you homegrown continuity. 'Bottom six' forwards are almost always undervalued and under-rated around here, particularly the guys whose roles are defensively weighted. Granlund, although different, has a similarly well-developed 'adult' game and is generally under-rated around here. These two imo are fixtures that when put in lists with players like Boucher (an AHL tweener) makes me shake my head. Gaunce - if he continues to develop and perform as he has - is an absolute keeper - and some secondary scoring (while not really his role) will come nevertheless as the team improves and he gets more confident and takes more chances/opportunities. But his 'possession' and defensive numbers alone are absolutely outstanding (and an indication of what he's capable of playing with a guy like Sutter - who is also in part responsible for those numbers...)
  10. [Signing] Canucks sign Elias Pettersson

    People are getting silly with the weight gazing. Gretzky was 160 lbs as a young NHLer. And that was an era of vicious, clutch and grab, enforcer-era, traditional fourth line hockey. When I met him he was a veteran and I absolutely doubt he was an ounce over 170lbs (his weight was exaggerated considerably). He was tiny, wirey - his wrists looked like those of the average teenager - in his prime. Not all people are built to gain a lot of mass as they develop - so the key thing with Pettersson, regardless, will be his vision and awareness - two things that made Gretzky virtually unhittable. Lateral movement and strength are also crucial - some guys can be remarkably strong at 170lbs - more crucial than adding fast mass, which could actually adversely effect his speed, quickness, and make him more vulnerable, while not necessarily stronger. One free internet to the first person that says something daft like "you're not comparing Pettersson to Gretzky!!" If you think that's the point, you've missed it.
  11. Some liteally awful "team building" concepts expressed by folks in here who are obsessed with flipping everyone over 25 for futures. You take Sutter out of this lineup and think about how that translates into the kind of minutes the young forwards in this group plays. We all want to see them thrive, play signiificant minutes - but what I specifically don't want to watch is them playing endless uphill hard minutes against tilted ice. This team needs to generate realistic opportunities for their youth. That is why Sutter - and his linemates - and a few other guys on the 'fourth' line - are critically important support for the skilled young forwards on this team - and it's blueline. Horvat becomes your best and most experienced defensive center in the absence of Sutter. Two horrible implications with that reality - he's tied to hard minutes - and who are your top 6 centers in his absence? Who centers your scoring lines? Where do the ozone starts for what will be a very young top 6 come from? Do you really want the likes of Boeser et al playing without a solid two way center like Horvat? They're already facing the opposition's best - the last thing you want is less ability to end opposition possession - more time spent defending in their zone (let alone fewer ozone starts). Gagner is not a bottom six center - he's a winger - a weak faceoff guy - and not really solid enough to handle the hard, down low minutes that an actual shutdown center plays. This team not only needs Sutter, but they ideally need to add another solid faceoff guy and veteran, hard minutes shutdown center to the mix. There are no guarantees that players like Gaudette et al will be ready for hard minutes at the NHL level. It is possible, but at the same time, you don't enter a season relying on inexperienced youth to play your principal shutdown roles. People that don't understand this literally don't understand the most elementary aspects of team building. Realistically, if you move Sutter you need to bring in a pair of centers via the trade market or free agency. Possible, but how likely is it that you get the targets you want at reasonable terms? I'd prefer to be shopping for just one asset in free agency - an affordable, relatively short term deal for a Richardson, Beagle, type - someone you don't have to commit future spots and cap too once your prospect pool further graduates. Bring in a veteran to compete for the 4C spot. If one of your young players owns that spot in that context. then you have something to work with - and realistic veteran depth when you run into injuries. The idea that they should clear out the likes of Sutter and go with what remains (or just replace his scoring in FA) is pure noob.
  12. This is a myopic perspective wadr. "Mentor" has literally nothing to do with why you need Sutter.
  13. Maybe. But he just turned 24. Performance last year was reasonable for a 23 year old in the 5 spot on a depleted team. Underlying numbers were fairly balanced. On ice goal metrics were fairly balanced. Grit is relatively positive for his size, I think for Stecher, the most promising things about his game are his intelligence and his compete level - he never shies away from engaging, and is relatively mobile, so as long as he's as assertive as he's been, his game should continue to translate well and improve, particularly as he's surrounded by a better/healthier roster. Stecher in the top 4 should be limited to injury situations imo, at least at this point. I wouldn't go into the season planning to make a top 4 of him though. If you're dealing Tanev (and I'm skeptical of these rumours, particularly ones that include Gudbranson) - if they're moving one of their top 4 RHD, then I think they'll bring in at the very least a placeholder that can play as many or more minutes than Stecher. Ideally I think you want Stecher to remain in 3rd pairing minutes or at the very least 6/4 tweener minutes - and given the injuries this team usually faces, having him in the top 4 could very well translate into needing to use him as a top pairing RHD at times. Who knows how he progresses this year relative to last, but I highly doubt the management team will be planning to rely on Stecher as their fixture in the second pairing.
  14. Laurence Gilman Would Sign the Luongo Contract Again: “Ten Times Over”
  15. You're wasting your time with that one JM. Anyone whose principal argument is that there are other centers with comparable production available clearly doesn't get the point - doesn't understand Sutter's role - and probably has no idea why other teams would be looking to acquire Sutter in the first place. Reducing it to production is just plain daft. Replacing Sutter with a Bozak type, adding no one else, and then filling out the bottom six C spots with the youth in the system (or Gagner lol) - is about as bad an idea/plan for this summer as I've heard anywhere.