[Optimist Prime]

Just quickly:

I dont think canucks games are boring, and I think we do have a chance at the cup.

Now, while I have agreed in the past that naslund isnt the same since the WCE days in terms of production, I am happy to see at least one sports journalist agree that its at least partly due to the system he is enduring. Yes, enduring. AV is not and will never be a coach tailored for high scoring, potent superstars. Any player with former 100 point seasons will wilt under AVs system, or try and adapt. Our Captain has done his very best to adapt, and lead this team to AV's 'promised land' by following the system, and doing what the coach asked. That is the true face of leadership. He didnt lead a revolt, he didnt fold up and demand a trade, and he didnt simply give up. I dont have to go back to the first half of his career here, but i will: look at his total points and his plus/minus over his tenure as a canuck.

96-97 41points -15
97-98 34points 5
98-99 66points -13
99-00 65points -5
00-01 75points -2
01-02 90points 22
02-03 104points 6
03-04 84points 24
05-06 79points -19
06-07 60points 3
07-08 36points 4 so far

Now stay with me a second longer, my wall of text will not crit you.

Goals Against Naslunds lines:

96-97 56
97-98 29
98-99 79
99-00 70
00-01 77
01-02 68
02-03 98
03-04 60
05-06 60
06-07 57
07-08 32 so far which with math works out to once again 57 for a full season.

So you can see here very clearly that the 'goal scoring' Captain of the team, while buying into AVs system has reduced his goals. But he has done what is asked of him and in back to back seasons helped to allow the fewest goals against his line since his early days with the club. AND I might add: his supposed best season ever had a horrible 98 goals against. Compare that to this season: and you can see Our Captain has transformed his game into a more rounded, leadership style play, than a Shoot and Toot yahoo.

On this day when he marks his 1000th game, I salute Markus Naslund as an all around superstar and team leader. Bravo:many more good years, sir.

[suomistyler]

Optimist Prime, on Jan 17 2008, 10:06 AM, said:

Just quickly:

I dont think canucks games are boring, and I think we do have a chance at the cup.

Now, while I have agreed in the past that naslund isnt the same since the WCE days in terms of production, I am happy to see at least one sports journalist agree that its at least partly due to the system he is enduring. Yes, enduring. AV is not and will never be a coach tailored for high scoring, potent superstars. Any player with former 100 point seasons will wilt under AVs system, or try and adapt. Our Captain has done his very best to adapt, and lead this team to AV's 'promised land' by following the system, and doing what the coach asked. That is the true face of leadership. He didnt lead a revolt, he didnt fold up and demand a trade, and he didnt simply give up. I dont have to go back to the first half of his career here, but i will: look at his total points and his plus/minus over his tenure as a canuck.

96-97 41points -15
97-98 34points 5
98-99 66points -13
99-00 65points -5
00-01 75points -2
01-02 90points 22
02-03 104points 6
03-04 84points 24
05-06 79points -19
06-07 60points 3
07-08 36points 4 so far

Now stay with me a second longer, my wall of text will not crit you.

Goals Against Naslunds lines:

96-97 56
97-98 29
98-99 79
99-00 70
00-01 77
01-02 68
02-03 98
03-04 60
05-06 60
06-07 57
07-08 32 so far which with math works out to once again 57 for a full season.

So you can see here very clearly that the 'goal scoring' Captain of the team, while buying into AVs system has reduced his goals. But he has done what is asked of him and in back to back seasons helped to allow the fewest goals against his line since his early days with the club. AND I might add: his supposed best season ever had a horrible 98 goals against. Compare that to this season: and you can see Our Captain has transformed his game into a more rounded, leadership style play, than a Shoot and Toot yahoo.

On this day when he marks his 1000th game, I salute Markus Naslund as an all around superstar and team leader. Bravo:many more good years, sir.

Your math is a little wacky...you can't deduct/add naslund's +/- to get the amount of points he has scored in a year considering all the points that he gets while on the powerplay/penalty kill do not add to his plus/minus, and vice versa for goals against his line....and that doesn't even begin to touch on the fact that some of his points each year come while he is leaving the ice or just coming on. But as a general year long trend, your stats are somewhat accurate.

This post has been edited by suomistyler: 17 January 2008 - 07:25 AM

[canyouseekansas]

Great points! I can't remember the last time I read something worthwile from the Province...

Quote

Is it boring? Yes. Will it get the Canucks into the playoffs? Probably. Will it win a Stanley Cup? Not a chance.

And, why oh why can't Nonis see that?????????????

[suomistyler]

Even Strength Points ||| Special teams points
96-97 32points -15................9
97-98 28points 5..................6
98-99 35points -13................31
99-00 37points -5..................28
00-01 40points -2..................35
01-02 59points 22.................31
02-03 50points 6...................54
03-04 58points 24.................26
05-06 37points -19................42
06-07 32points 3...................28
07-08 20points 4 so far..........16

Even Strength Goals Against Naslund's lines:

96-97 47
97-98 23
98-99 48
99-00 42
00-01 42
01-02 37
02-03 44
03-04 34
05-06 56
06-07 29
07-08 16

other than for the 05-06 season where this whole team imploded, Naslund's even strength goals against has been pretty steady and consistent over the years...usually not fluctuating outside of the 35-45 goals against range other than for his time under vigneault. Even still 29 goals against last year is not that far off his years in 03-04 and 01-02. The REAL fact of the matter is that a lot of Naslund's points production throughout his career has come on special teams. If naslund is expected to hit 80- points per year, then he requires to get 37-45 points on special teams...simple as that. Fact is that the Sedin's now take up much of the powerplay time he used to enjoy under crawford...his 40 PP point/90point season efforts are not going to be coming any time soon.

This post has been edited by suomistyler: 17 January 2008 - 08:06 AM

[Wetcoaster]

MarkRagnar, on Jan 16 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

Check out:

http://communities.c...-vigneault.aspx

Selected excerpts for those who can't read a long article:

The bloggers are a couple of wanna be sports writers (Jason Brough and Mike Halford) who do not seem to have much of grasp of hockey. There are any number of CDC posters who have better knowledge of the NHL and the Canucks.

Halford's self-described approach:

Quote

I’ve never been overly amused by mainstream hockey coverage…I’m a big fan of websites like Deadspin, Free Darko and Kissing Suzy Kolber – they entertain by denouncing the lofty status professional athletes have in society.

And Brough:

Quote

As for me, I came for the blogging, but I’m staying for the groupies.

http://www.thevancou...rview_a_c/#more

Too bad they know so little about hockey and spend their time writing cutesy plays on words. Tommy Boy Larscheid provides penetrating analysis compare to these two.......... and he took a few too many hits to the noggin during football's leather helmet era.

Here was what they said before last season (2006-07):

Final Pre-season Prediction Time:

1. Canucks Record at the end of Season is… 43-30-9 (49- 26-7)
2. Playoffs Yes or No…Yes, 8th spot. (won the division)
3. Leading scorer… Markus Naslund (uh nope - both Sedins 20+ points ahead)
4. First to get traded…Brendan Morrison (still here)
5. Orland Kurtenblog will be…facing a massive defamation suit. (please some one file suit)

5 should have come true for these two brain-dead bozos.

This post has been edited by Wetcoaster: 17 January 2008 - 09:41 AM

[TOMapleLaughs]

Why do people forget that AV tried an offense-first approach at the beginning of the season.

And the Canucks were HORRIBLE during that time.

Then came the shutout loss against Nashville where we lost Salo and Bieksa. If you recall, it was NASLUND that said the team needs to play a lot tighter. And he was correct. They started doing that and went on a tear in November.

It's simple. The Canucks are BUILT for defense. So you CAN'T get them to play offensively and expect them to win, dammit.

Quit blaming AV for his team's ability to score. That's Naslund's fault. (the obvious big contract, low return reason)

[Wetcoaster]

TOMapleLaughs, on Jan 17 2008, 08:50 AM, said:

Why do people forget that AV tried an offense-first approach at the beginning of the season.

And the Canucks were HORRIBLE during that time.

Then came the shutout loss against Nashville where we lost Salo and Bieksa. If you recall, it was NASLUND that said the team needs to play a lot tighter. And he was correct. They started doing that and went on a tear in November.

It's simple. The Canucks are BUILT for defense. So you CAN'T get them to play offensively and expect them to win, dammit.

Quit blaming AV for his team's ability to score. That's Naslund's fault. (the obvious big contract, low return reason)

A good coach goes with what he has on hand. There is a reason why Vigneault was selected as Coach of the Year. He made the best use of what he was given and took a team picked by virtually everyone not a fan of Vancouver to finish out of the play-offs.

[Package72]

Wetcoaster, on Jan 17 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

A good coach goes with what he has on hand. There is a reason why Vigneault was selected as Coach of the Year. He made the best use of what he was given and took a team picked by virtually everyone not a fan of Vancouver to finish out of the play-offs.

I made this point in another thread, and I'll make it here just one more time & then leave my current favorite subject of the week alone.

The Canucks cannot, cannot, absolutely cannot go with a more open "run & gun" style AT THIS TIME without diastrous results. Not with the players they have. Injuries are also starting to kill them, so with everyone healthy they will eventually have a chance at opeining up the game more. Not now.

Having said that, yes I realize it's obvious AV has a defence first approach anyways so not much may change. However, I do believe that Nonis is really trying to find the last couple of pieces of the offensive puzzle. If/when that happens (through a trade or whatever), watch out!

The danger right now is because the team is starting to lose, players may start saying "F*** Vingneault! I'm going to play the way I want to play!" Then it's Crawford vs. Bertuzzi all over again.

[Plough Cat]

TOMapleLaughs, on Jan 17 2008, 08:50 AM, said:

Why do people forget that AV tried an offense-first approach at the beginning of the season.

And the Canucks were HORRIBLE during that time.

Then came the shutout loss against Nashville where we lost Salo and Bieksa. If you recall, it was NASLUND that said the team needs to play a lot tighter. And he was correct. They started doing that and went on a tear in November.

It's simple. The Canucks are BUILT for defense. So you CAN'T get them to play offensively and expect them to win, dammit.

Quit blaming AV for his team's ability to score. That's Naslund's fault. (the obvious big contract, low return reason)

Very true. Nonis built the Canucks to play a 2-1 and 3-2 score style of hockey. Blowout games like the one against Minnesota will not come around very often, but neither will the Canucks be blown out like they were against Philedelphia very often.

I do think this blog raises a legitimate concern, however. The Canucks need more secondary scoring. It was hoped that one or several of Isbister, Raymond, Kesler, or Shannon could contribute on the scoresheet regularly enough to give the Canucks a bonafide secondary attack behind Daniel and Henrik. However, I'd say that with the exception of a strong season from Kesler and flashes of huge potential from Raymond, the Canucks are still struggling to get that true second line scoring threat that they so desperately need. Naslund has actually done fairly well on the scoresheet. However, he can't provide secondary offense at $6 million a season; he needs to produce.

Pyatt, I think, has done well providing secondary scoring when not playing with the Sedins. However, I think he may also be the best fit for them at the moment, so he really shouldn't be considered a "secondary" scorer while playing on the top line.

Perhaps another problem is that Vancouver's top guns on the blueline haven't been able to provide much secondary scoring, either. Salo's and Bieksa's injuries robbed us of our two top offensive threats from the blueline (although Ohlund is arguably just as good as they are). Edler has stepped up nicely and put up a few points, but he can't really be expected to carry the blueline's offense at this stage in his career.

Unless Raymond can play consistently enough to stay with the big club, and unless someone like Isbister or Beech really steps up, I can see that Vancouver may be hard-pressed to win in the playoffs simply because they won't be able to score.

[Neomop]

To be honest, with Luongo holding the fort, we can afford to take chances to be more aggressive in scoring (ie obtain a legit scorer for the sacrifice of a defenseman). We won't be able to pull through close games all the time, and especially in the playoffs where teams play long enough against each other for analysis and to exploit weaknesses. All the Canucks hold is the Sedins for firepower, and really, what's that unpredictable about our defense?