The Official Transit Thread

[Azncanucks]

I spent some time in London and their transportation system was way better.

I spent some time in NY and their transportation was good.

I spent some time in Hong Kong and it was simply amazing.

now I live in vancouver and its transit is just bad.. real bad.

That is the difference between an city and an international city.

[McCormack]

I spent some time in London and their transportation system was way better.

I spent some time in NY and their transportation was good.

I spent some time in Hong Kong and it was simply amazing.

now I live in vancouver and its transit is just bad.. real bad.

That is the difference between an city and an international city.

London and Hong Kong have been settled for 2000+ years, Vancouver's first major settlement was 140 years ago. New York has more than ten times the population of Vancouver. What do you expect? Don't compare blueberries to watermelons, you just make yourself look ignorant.

[Common sense]

Well, there are somethings you can't compare.....Hong Kong's population density allows transit to be very profitable, to a point that the government can hand it over to the private sector and still expect quality service. Any service route in Hong Kong will probably be profitable.

You can't compare it with what we have, the circumstances are different. On average, Translink only recoups 60% of the bus operating costs from fares. The only profitable bus route is the 99 B-Line.

Also interesting to note, it costs about $100 an hour to operate a standard sized bus.

Well, obviously one cannot compare HK's transport system to Vancouver. For one thing like you mentioned, HK's population density is much greater than Vancouver's, and its development is vertical-based. Fewer routes needed, but higher frequency too.

Another reason is the over-dependence (if one can call it that) that HKers have in their various transport methods, whether it be bus, subway, train, or mini-bus. If one line in the subway breaks down, there will be major hell to pay. Therefore, there needs to be many forms of getting around HK.

[BuckyHermit]

Well, obviously one cannot compare HK's transport system to Vancouver. For one thing like you mentioned, HK's population density is much greater than Vancouver's, and its development is vertical-based. Fewer routes needed, but higher frequency too.

Another reason is the over-dependence (if one can call it that) that HKers have in their various transport methods, whether it be bus, subway, train, or mini-bus. If one line in the subway breaks down, there will be major hell to pay. Therefore, there needs to be many forms of getting around HK.

The over-dependence comes from high gas prices and high insurance rates, if I recall.

Here, if you did that, the economy would probably collapse since it's harder to create feasible transit due to population density.

[nitronuts]

The over-dependence comes from high gas prices and high insurance rates, if I recall.

Here, if you did that, the economy would probably collapse since it's harder to create feasible transit due to population density.

I believe 90% of Hong Kongers use the MTR everyday.....

If Metro Vancouver is able to get transit usage up to 30%, i'll be overjoyed.

[Common sense]

The over-dependence comes from high gas prices and high insurance rates, if I recall.

Here, if you did that, the economy would probably collapse since it's harder to create feasible transit due to population density.

High gas price - sure, why not? It's around $2.5CAD/L over there right now, or around 19HKD/L.

High insurance rates - not too sure about that.

Another reason is - get this - lack of space . Whether it is parking space or driving space, it's always inadequate. Parking in suburban HK (if it does exist) is about 4CAD/hour (and you think we UBCers have it bad), and even worse as you approach the commercial/business parts of the island. Driving space doesn't need to be explained; the roads are either made up of either buses, taxis, or minibuses.

[Starbug]

Looks like Victoria's contemplating a bus route up Bay St. I can't find anything on their website, but I got an email at work about the open house for consultation with the public.

The map doesn't have anything labeled, but it looks like the bus will loop around the Jubilee Hospital; going clockwise that would be:

Bay St -> Lee Ave -> Fort St -> Richmond Rd -> back to Bay

Then it'll head down Bay St across town to the Save-on-Foods shopping plaza and do a loop around there. My best guess for the other end of the route, based on the shape of the loop, would be (going clockwise):

Bay St -> Tyee Rd -> Kimta Rd -> Catherine St -> back to Bay St.

So it looks like it'll swing by Spinnaker's Brewpub (on Kimta) at that end.

[Midnight Express]

One thing I'd like to see when the Port Mann is twinned and hwy 1 widened is to have a dedicated bus lane in each direction, and these lanes would run on the opposite side of a concrete barrier to isolate the lane from the regular traffic flow so the buses would just pass by any collision or stall.

With this you could address transit service where skytrain isn't available(i.e. Langley/Fort Langley, parts of Surrey that skytrain isn't) and this would be an express service right into Vancouver.

If Translink wants people to use transit for their commute to and from work build the system first before rambling on about getting people out of their cars.

Like I said before these skytrain lines should have been built 10 years ago when costs were lower and there was less traffic on the roads to disrupt. People should have been using foresight and seeing the tri-cities and fraser valley populations growing at rapid rates.

[BuckyHermit]

Today's bus ride home was interesting. The bus stopped, and the only passenger who wanted to get off was a bit too late in getting to the door, and by the time he did, the bus was starting to pull out already. Despite the "back door!" calls, the driver kept going and refused to drop off until the next stop (it's an express bus).

What followed was a heated argument at the front of the bus where the driver and the passenger were debating about who was in the right. The driver was basically saying, "You should've been ready at the door by the time the bus stopped." The passenger was saying, "I have a heavy backpack, so it was unsafe for me to go towards the door while the bus was moving."

It was interesting to watch.

And to think, in Orange County, the usual protocol is: 1) ring cord, 2) bus stops, 3) you make your way to the door, 4) you get out. Here, that protocol would be an example of what NOT to do.

[ronthecivil]

Alright! Drunk posting on CDC!

Sometimes you need to be!

[ronthecivil]

Has the transit gas tax been increased 30 cents a litre? because the price of gas should be at a $1.15 or lower.

See, my idea to make the gas tax 30 cents a litre more would barely be noticed! Heck, it would make the gas companies scared to raise it further. With that kind of money coming in, you could build all those bridges sans tolls, do all of nitros transit stuff, make transit free, and build my road stuff to boot.

[nitronuts]

I was taking SkyTrain yesterday and it was brutal.....they need to up the frequency on the Millennium Line or add more trains to the cars, which I hope will be done when the 48 new cars arrive next year.

As well, the car I was on reeked of urine or sweat or whatever it was....and on another car, it reeked of KFC fried chicken - which is why I believe that food and drinks do not have a place on transit vehicles.

[ronthecivil]

Hong Kong is 5x worse in terms of being packed in, yet everything runs efficiently and smoothly....AND it isn't uncomfortable.

It actually is a goal we should strive for....you'd be amazed if you tried their system.

If Hong Kong is so amazing why are some many people from Hong Kong moving here? Although it's a good lesson on how to make a dense city, make the business climate much, much better than in the surrounding areas. To bad Vancouver does the opposite; see the flight of business from the downtown core to the now all to common business "park".

[TigerWilliams]

People always talk about 2-tier healthcare, but we should have 2-Tier Transit.

Like a special fleet of buses, where you have to be at least 21 to get on. And there is a bouncer at the door - if you're a hobo, or have poor hygiene, you get tossed, no exceptions. If you start acting up, the bouncer tosses you at the next bus stop - no exceptions.

Special buses would have A/C, climate control, aromatherapy, airline seats with the tv's in the back, etc.

extra $5 per trip.

whaddya think??

[nitronuts]

See, my idea to make the gas tax 30 cents a litre more would barely be noticed! Heck, it would make the gas companies scared to raise it further. With that kind of money coming in, you could build all those bridges sans tolls, do all of nitros transit stuff, make transit free, and build my road stuff to boot.

I'm pretty sure the province collects a few hundred million each year from Lower Mainland gas taxes....the problem is not much of that goes back towards Translink's capital and operational costs.

And the latest introduction of the carbon gas tax won't even have its revenues go back to Translink, as the tax is tax-neutral meaning that overall no taxes will be raised when income taxes and other taxes are lowered to make up for the carbon tax.

What I'd like to see is the car levy brought back....make it $100 every year.

[ronthecivil]

I spent some time in London and their transportation system was way better.

I spent some time in NY and their transportation was good.

I spent some time in Hong Kong and it was simply amazing.

now I live in vancouver and its transit is just bad.. real bad.

That is the difference between an city and an international city.

That and ten million people give or take. Oh, and a hundred year headstart on infrastructure developement.

[nitronuts]

If Hong Kong is so amazing why are some many people from Hong Kong moving here? Although it's a good lesson on how to make a dense city, make the business climate much, much better than in the surrounding areas. To bad Vancouver does the opposite; see the flight of business from the downtown core to the now all to common business "park".

For about a decade before Hong Kong returned to China, a lot of citizens feared that they would be immersed into communist rule once the British flag was lowered and the Chinese flag was raised in Central. And much of these fears were also magnified by what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989.

So then, you had droves of Hong Kongers moving to the Lower Mainland and Toronto.

Of course, the communist crackdown in Hong Kong never happened....and the immigration patterns between Hong Kong and Vancouver have pretty much gone down and leveled. Some are in fact moving back to HK. At the same time, some are also moving here for our superior education system....just look at the number of Chinese immigrants in our elementary/high-schools and universities. Of course, this isn't just the Hong Kongers it's Chinese people in general. In fact, there has been a recent spike in Chinese mainlanders immigrating here.

[ronthecivil]

One thing I'd like to see when the Port Mann is twinned and hwy 1 widened is to have a dedicated bus lane in each direction, and these lanes would run on the opposite side of a concrete barrier to isolate the lane from the regular traffic flow so the buses would just pass by any collision or stall.

With this you could address transit service where skytrain isn't available(i.e. Langley/Fort Langley, parts of Surrey that skytrain isn't) and this would be an express service right into Vancouver.

If Translink wants people to use transit for their commute to and from work build the system first before rambling on about getting people out of their cars.

Like I said before these skytrain lines should have been built 10 years ago when costs were lower and there was less traffic on the roads to disrupt. People should have been using foresight and seeing the tri-cities and fraser valley populations growing at rapid rates.

Unless someone crashed into the barrier. Crashing into a barrier is going to cause more accidents than if it wasn't there, at least when it comes to traffic flowing in the same direction. (Example of why beer is sometimes necessary).

What they SHOULD do is have the five lanes in either direction, with two as high occupancy/commericial/toll lanes. So three free, two free for HOV vehicles and commercial vehicles, and anyone that wants to pay a toll can do in the happy lane too.

P.S. Ten years ago government revenue was lower too. Inflation works on both sides of the equation. That's not to say most of the stuff we are seeing built right now shouldn't already be there.

[nitronuts]

People always talk about 2-tier healthcare, but we should have 2-Tier Transit.

Like a special fleet of buses, where you have to be at least 21 to get on. And there is a bouncer at the door - if you're a hobo, or have poor hygiene, you get tossed, no exceptions. If you start acting up, the bouncer tosses you at the next bus stop - no exceptions.

Special buses would have A/C, climate control, aromatherapy, airline seats with the tv's in the back, etc.

extra $5 per trip.

whaddya think??

Translink is actually looking at starting a luxury express service, for a much higher fare cost of course. It'll be basically what you described, even with wifi internet.....without bouncers of course.

[ronthecivil]

I'm pretty sure the province collects a few hundred million each year from Lower Mainland gas taxes....the problem is not much of that goes back towards Translink's capital and operational costs.

And the latest introduction of the carbon gas tax won't even have its revenues go back to Translink, as the tax is tax-neutral meaning that overall no taxes will be raised when income taxes and other taxes are lowered to make up for the carbon tax.

What I'd like to see is the car levy brought back....make it $100 every year.

Well, gas tax, car leavy, whatever. I just think a gas tax is better as it's more a user pay, even someone that just has a car for weekends would pay as much on a car levy as somoene driving 24/7.

I am pretty sure the existing gas taxes fed and provincial combined easily make enough money to operate all of our big dreamy ideas, but that money is already spoken for.