silverpig Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 To a point but forcing densification is well beyond it. Sam Sulivan promoted density and was turfed because of it. Vancouver does not want more density. Nothing gets their hair up faster than proposing a new tower. I would promote a different form of densification. Even though yaletown has a lot of towers, there is still a lot of space between the buildings. Make more ~5 storey low rise buildings, but pack them wall to wall. Then have a large dedicated green space every once in a while. Make the green spaces plentiful enough that every building has at least one within walking distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Junk food tax. Divert the gas taxes that are already feeding the health care monster to transit, where it should be and have the junk food tax go to health care, again where it should. That sounds like a beaurocratic nightmare. McDonalds would have to be pretty pricey to contribute the same amount gas taxes do as well. Look at how even the six cent carbon tax was made revenue neutral by raising income taxes. That's the scale of tax increase one would need to offset diverting gas taxes to transportation. And remember, that bill is scheduled to rise with the upcoming demographic bomb so we already going to have to deal with a lot of tax increases just to maintain the status quo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sure but that's simply not how it works. If outsiders DID have a say they should be getting them to densify around existing skytrain stations (Nanamio and 29th ave are still surrounded by single family homes 25 years after construction of the Expo line) rather than trying to justify new densification to support a new transit line. If people don't want the density or the skytrain why force it on them? If they prefer the noisy stinky buses all the power to them. The people in the surrounding region and up valley have to breathe the smoke from the noisy stinky buses and cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would promote a different form of densification. Even though yaletown has a lot of towers, there is still a lot of space between the buildings. Make more ~5 storey low rise buildings, but pack them wall to wall. Then have a large dedicated green space every once in a while. Make the green spaces plentiful enough that every building has at least one within walking distance. Sounds good, but it's still ultimately up to Vancouver city council......... There will be growth in Vancouver but not enough to warrant any new transit lines. If they need to improve east west transit remove the parking on Broadway and have bus lanes the whole way. Heck, put transponders in the buses so they can synch up the lights. That would allow for more than enough of an increase in buses. An area that IS growing (south of the fraser) still has ATTROCIOUS transit service. And much like in Vancouver, if you build it people come...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The people in the surrounding region and up valley have to breathe the smoke from the noisy stinky buses and cars. What's your point? They have cars and buses too. They can't Vancouver to densify any more than Vancouver can tell them to move out of the Valley if they don't like the pollution..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 What's your point? They have cars and buses too. They can't Vancouver to densify any more than Vancouver can tell them to move out of the Valley if they don't like the pollution..... Maybe they wouldn't be living out in the Valley if they weren't priced out of the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sounds good, but it's still ultimately up to Vancouver city council......... There will be growth in Vancouver but not enough to warrant any new transit lines. If they need to improve east west transit remove the parking on Broadway and have bus lanes the whole way. Heck, put transponders in the buses so they can synch up the lights. That would allow for more than enough of an increase in buses. An area that IS growing (south of the fraser) still has ATTROCIOUS transit service. And much like in Vancouver, if you build it people come...... Ron, we've already gone over this. The numbers don't add up. Go back and read the links regarding this latest census I posted. You can say that Vancouver isn't growing, but it's just not true. Yes, Surrey is growing more, but they have waaaaay more available land. You talk about outsiders having a voice, how about people in Vancouver having a voice in the sprawling single family uses in the valley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Maybe they wouldn't be living out in the Valley if they weren't priced out of the city. Obviously... Why would Vancouver residents want their property to get cheaper? They already own property there so why would they want to reduce their value by letting more people in? Is it a suprise they fight for the status quo? It might not be "right" but you can't force them to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 You talk about outsiders having a voice, how about people in Vancouver having a voice in the sprawling single family uses in the valley? You mean they're not too self-centred to care about that? (That's the impression I get from Ron's posts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Obviously... Why would Vancouver residents want their property to get cheaper? They already own property there so why would they want to reduce their value by letting more people in? Is it a suprise they fight for the status quo? It might not be "right" but you can't force them to change that. Something else I wonder. Do absentee offshore investment property owners have electoral rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ron, we've already gone over this. The numbers don't add up. Go back and read the links regarding this latest census I posted. You can say that Vancouver isn't growing, but it's just not true. Yes, Surrey is growing more, but they have waaaaay more available land. You talk about outsiders having a voice, how about people in Vancouver having a voice in the sprawling single family uses in the valley? They do have a voice. Ever heard of the ALR? I don't doubt that Vancouver is growing. It's just growing slowly and already has good transit service. It certainly doesn't need a fourth skytrain system when the south of fraser doesn't even have a Bline network yet. There needs to be 5-6 billion dollars worth of transit improvement south of the fraser before they should be considering doing anything north of the river. The one way flow of tax dollars is regressive taxing at it's finest! How south of Fraser mayors continue to want to participate in a region that the other side sees worthy of nothing more than another tax increase is beyond me. It's a horrifically one sided deal that should be terminated immeadiately. If not then there needs to be a serious recogning regarding funding priorities. I would put a massive cash investement into Vancouver transit very, VERY low on the list, especially when significant improvments could be made with paint and signs (removing the parking on Broadway and coverting it into bus lanes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If not then there needs to be a serious recogning regarding funding priorities. I would put a massive cash investement into Vancouver transit very, VERY low on the list, especially when significant improvments could be made with paint and signs (removing the parking on Broadway and coverting it into bus lanes). Central Broadway is like a second downtown. It needs RT. The UBC extension can wait till later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 You mean they're not too self-centred to care about that? (That's the impression I get from Ron's posts.) Who's self centred? Me? Vancouver residents? South of Fraser residents? Everyone is self centred. What's that have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Who's self centred? Me? Vancouver residents? South of Fraser residents? Everyone is self centred. What's that have to do with anything? Vancouver residents. You give the impression that they don't care if the Valley goes to hell. Inane seems to hint otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Central Broadway is like a second downtown. It needs RT. The UBC extension can wait till later. South Surrey, Newton, Fleetwood, Guilford, and Langly are regional town centres. They need to be attached to the regional transit grid. I would die for Bline buses in dedicated lanes! It would all work a heck of lot better with an expo extension to 152nd so you don't have to get into the north Surrey traffic. Get that running and I might shed a tear for the poor Vancouverites and their second downtown.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They do have a voice. Ever heard of the ALR? I don't doubt that Vancouver is growing. It's just growing slowly and already has good transit service. It certainly doesn't need a fourth skytrain system when the south of fraser doesn't even have a Bline network yet. There needs to be 5-6 billion dollars worth of transit improvement south of the fraser before they should be considering doing anything north of the river. The one way flow of tax dollars is regressive taxing at it's finest! How south of Fraser mayors continue to want to participate in a region that the other side sees worthy of nothing more than another tax increase is beyond me. It's a horrifically one sided deal that should be terminated immeadiately. If not then there needs to be a serious recogning regarding funding priorities. I would put a massive cash investement into Vancouver transit very, VERY low on the list, especially when significant improvments could be made with paint and signs (removing the parking on Broadway and coverting it into bus lanes). What does the ALR have to do with Vancouverites having a voice? I don't disagree that SofF needs transit, I've been arguing for that all along. Of course the Province has doomed SofF to be an automobile centric place for the next 30 years with all the highway expansion, but they still do need to transit. I just think it can come along with expansion in Vancouver. There is money out there, don't kid yourself. It's all about priorities. This government is horrible, they've handicapped translink even worse than it already was, the premier doesn't even know what the hell she's talking about (re: funding for evergreen she didn't even know what was what), it goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 South Surrey, Newton, Fleetwood, Guilford, and Langly are regional town centres. They need to be attached to the regional transit grid. I would die for Bline buses in dedicated lanes! It would all work a heck of lot better with an expo extension to 152nd so you don't have to get into the north Surrey traffic. Get that running and I might shed a tear for the poor Vancouverites and their second downtown.... Don't many Surreyites work there too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 South Surrey, Newton, Fleetwood, Guilford, and Langly are regional town centres. They need to be attached to the regional transit grid. I would die for Bline buses in dedicated lanes! It would all work a heck of lot better with an expo extension to 152nd so you don't have to get into the north Surrey traffic. Get that running and I might shed a tear for the poor Vancouverites and their second downtown.... No, Surrey Centre and Langley are regional town centres. I agree Langley should have a connection. For me it's not about one or the other though. http://www.metrovancouver.org/planning/development/livablecentres/Pages/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 What does the ALR have to do with Vancouverites having a voice? I don't disagree that SofF needs transit, I've been arguing for that all along. Of course the Province has doomed SofF to be an automobile centric place for the next 30 years with all the highway expansion, but they still do need to transit. I just think it can come along with expansion in Vancouver. There is money out there, don't kid yourself. It's all about priorities. This government is horrible, they've handicapped translink even worse than it already was, the premier doesn't even know what the hell she's talking about (re: funding for evergreen she didn't even know what was what), it goes on and on. Which reminds me. How much more or less in per capita funding does Surrey get in comparison to Vancouver for road and highway construction and improvements? What's the per capita cost to get other key infrastructure out there (water, electricity, etc.)? I imagine these costs are greater if the people are spread farther apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Vancouver residents. You give the impression that they don't care if the Valley goes to hell. Inane seems to hint otherwise. Oh, I am sure they would be ok with the whole Valley moving to Burnaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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