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nitronuts

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I would be happy with the express buses to at least get to north surrey where the skytrain is. You know, the ones that were promised five years ago. Adding ONE skytrain station would be flat out awesome to get out of the congestion in the downtown area.

South Surrey and White Rock pay a ton in taxes and apart from service to downtown via the Canada line (which is decent) bus service to anywhere else is rediculous. If they were seperated out the numbers would be worse.

Keep in mind that shortly the south fraser (or will it be north fraser, either way) screen line will be going in. Make no mistake, once they see what a mess of traffic it makes only tolling the Port Mann then they will HAVE to toll all the way to the Pacific or those other routes (which are already a mess) will be a super mess from people dodging the tolls.

I understand that UBC is a high priority transit wise, but there simply isn't the money to build a rapid transit line that way. Nor is their the public support. Do you really think they want another cut and cover tunnel across town? Even a bored tunnel (which is idiotic if not needed) would have massive disruptions at every station location which tends to be at the major intersections. Why should we spend a ton of money on something that is not supported when the existing service could easily meet demand by simply taking away some parking and turning it into bus lanes?

So how about this. No more taxes. Fit the evergreen funding envelope by eliminating the douglas college stop and segment. Start the King George and Fraser Highway Bline buses.

When the toll revenue starts piling in we can extend expo to 152 and get bus lanes on those routes.

Once all that's done and there's extra money, THEN perhaps consider doing something out to UBC.

Oh, and when the tolls go in on the south of fraser put one more around the downtown core.

OR BETER YET!

The south of fraser pulls out of translink, makes it's own transit area, and we use all the bridge crossing tolls to fund things south of the river and the north side can do what it wants.

South Surrey has just over 50k people. White Rock is about 20k. Let's call it 75k.

Now consider the high senior population (who don't do the daily commute), kids, and non-commuting spouses, and you're at say 25k commuters.

Some of them already are served by the Canada Line buses.

Some are trades people and their place of work varies - they need a car.

Some work in the area, or farther east.

If you built a skytrain and b-line system out there you'd get next to no one using it. How many people would get in their car and rive 10 minutes to get to a park-and-ride as opposed to just driving?

The current express lines to UBC pass people up. Ever been near Broadway station in the morning? A b-line rolls up, all the doors open, people cram on (no tickets are checked), the doors close, it rolls away, the next bus rolls up, all the doors open... Even with this there are long lineups and waits in the morning. And god forbid you try to get on at any stop before Granville.

41st is the same. The 41, 43, and 480 all roll along through Kerrisdale and at times in the morning I was passed up by several buses.

THAT is the case for transit investment, not a community of 75k spread out in giant suburban sprawl with a vast swath of nothing between them and north Surrey.

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TransLink fare hike rejected

A 12.5 per cent transit fare hike proposed to help fund TransLink projects in Metro Vancouver has been rejected.

TransLink Commissioner Martin Crilly, who was tasked with ensuring the transit authority is running as efficiently as possible before allowing the hike, announced Wednesday he was turning down the proposal.

Crilly asked TransLink to find the money in its own budget instead.

"TransLink now seeks fare increases outpacing inflation," Crilly said in a statement. "The ruling… sets targets for cost-saving by TransLink, but without trimming or deferring service improvements."

Though his decision means FareSaver ticket books will remain the same price, TransLink is still legally allowed to increase cash fares by two per cent per year without approval.

Since fares were last increased in January 2008, they could still go up by 10 per cent in January 2013, which would see a single-zone ticket increase from $2.50 to $2.75. Two-zone fares would go up 35 cents to $4.10, and three-zone fares would increase 50 cents to $5.50.

Crilly said monthly bus passes are not his jurisdiction, and may also go up.

In March, Premier Christy Clark ordered an audit of TransLink to address a $30-million funding shortfall, but a start date has yet to be announced.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120411/bc_translink_fare_hike_120411/20120411/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Distance based fares? It could increase more transit trips which could mean more revenue. The way I see it right now is people are more likely to drive to places nearby than taking public transit because it is a $2.50 fare regardless.

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http://www.ctvbc.ctv...ishColumbiaHome

Distance based fares? It could increase more transit trips which could mean more revenue. The way I see it right now is people are more likely to drive to places nearby than taking public transit because it is a $2.50 fare regardless.

That's a good point, I've never thought about it that way. It is really stupid that if you live at Joyce and want to go to Metrotown, you have to pay $3.75 for a 2-zone and spend 3 minutes on the train. I would drive too.

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How about get the councillors to learn to drive a biarticulated bus.. and then make them drive down Broadway during rush hour... or how about from an automobile driver's perspective. Have them trail a bi articulated bus during rush hour down Broadway. It'll be hell. Imagine if the bus changed lanes on the already cramped Broadway streets.

I'll tell you what's a long term solution Tim Louis, RRT under Broadway. Any combo involving RRT also works.

Frees up all those bline buses to serve other areas.

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How about get the councillors to learn to drive a biarticulated bus.. and then make them drive down Broadway during rush hour... or how about from an automobile driver's perspective. Have them trail a bi articulated bus during rush hour down Broadway. It'll be hell. Imagine if the bus changed lanes on the already cramped Broadway streets.

I'll tell you what's a long term solution Tim Louis, RRT under Broadway. Any combo involving RRT also works.

Frees up all those bline buses to serve other areas.

They would have to be part of a BRT system.

If they're going to get bi-articulated buses for BRT, why don't they build LRT instead? LRT can run on electricity and its cars would have a longer life span.

Edited by Opmac
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They would have to be part of a BRT system.

If they're going to get bi-articulated buses for BRT, why don't they build LRT instead? LRT can run on electricity and its cars would have a longer life span.

It's really not worth the money if you compare the time it will take for a LRT train to go down Broadway compared to 99Bline. The times are quite similar.

If UBC is willing to contribute a substantial amount of funding, I don't think they'll be a problem having RRT all the way to UBC. RRT to UBC would definitely be built if Translink had unlimited funds. Even if they don't build all the way to UBC, it's still a step in the right direction in connecting and improving the transit network.

http://www.translink.ca/en/Be-Part-of-the-Plan/Rapid-Transit-Projects/UBC-Line-Rapid-Transit-Study/Alternative-Designs.aspx

Nevertheless, biarticulated buses will never ever happen down Broadway unless all the lanes are designated for BUSES only, but that won't ever happen until the day Skytrain runs through every street in Vancouver or we are able to teleport... from say Surrey to UBC in the blink of an eye...

Everyone knows it's going to be RRT, just whether it's going to be a combo or all the way to UBC.

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Sooo, what's the deal with the Canada Line? I don't take it, but I keep getting transit alerts about Canada Line service disruptions. Isn't it a little new to be having technical issues already?

It's almost been 3 years, and it hasn't really had a single major breakdown. This one just qualifies as a fairly minor problem, I gather.

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Sooo, what's the deal with the Canada Line? I don't take it, but I keep getting transit alerts about Canada Line service disruptions. Isn't it a little new to be having technical issues already?

They do maintenance on it quite a bit. When I was living near there they would have reduced frequency at night as they closed some stretches of track down to 1-way.

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South Surrey has just over 50k people. White Rock is about 20k. Let's call it 75k.

Now consider the high senior population (who don't do the daily commute), kids, and non-commuting spouses, and you're at say 25k commuters.

Some of them already are served by the Canada Line buses.

Some are trades people and their place of work varies - they need a car.

Some work in the area, or farther east.

If you built a skytrain and b-line system out there you'd get next to no one using it. How many people would get in their car and rive 10 minutes to get to a park-and-ride as opposed to just driving?

The current express lines to UBC pass people up. Ever been near Broadway station in the morning? A b-line rolls up, all the doors open, people cram on (no tickets are checked), the doors close, it rolls away, the next bus rolls up, all the doors open... Even with this there are long lineups and waits in the morning. And god forbid you try to get on at any stop before Granville.

41st is the same. The 41, 43, and 480 all roll along through Kerrisdale and at times in the morning I was passed up by several buses.

THAT is the case for transit investment, not a community of 75k spread out in giant suburban sprawl with a vast swath of nothing between them and north Surrey.

I don't doubt that the business case will ALWAYS be better to invest north of the fraser. That will always be the case. In fact it is a self reinforcing event since it drives density....

What is rediculous is that the business case is ALWAYS to increase taxes in a way that hits people living south of fraser the hardest (like the new gas taxes and the soon to be everywhere tolls) and that the first thing to cut (just announced the so called soon to be coming south of fraser express buses are now cancelled, exactly as I predicted) are always south of the fraser.

You will have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for the people lining up to go to UBC who get their subsidised passes when my choices are to pay through the nose to sit in congestion or cough up what their pass costs a month to ride a milk run bus that is still very busy and spend twice as much time commuting.

Perhaps if they actually ran transit (the rapid, express kind) to the regional town centres then the dense development would follow.

As is, right or wrong, there NO REASON WHATSOEVER for south of fraser residents to be in translink. It's a one way relationship and we're on the wrong side.

Edited by ronthecivil
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It's really not worth the money if you compare the time it will take for a LRT train to go down Broadway compared to 99Bline. The times are quite similar.

If UBC is willing to contribute a substantial amount of funding, I don't think they'll be a problem having RRT all the way to UBC. RRT to UBC would definitely be built if Translink had unlimited funds. Even if they don't build all the way to UBC, it's still a step in the right direction in connecting and improving the transit network.

http://www.translink...ve-Designs.aspx

Nevertheless, biarticulated buses will never ever happen down Broadway unless all the lanes are designated for BUSES only, but that won't ever happen until the day Skytrain runs through every street in Vancouver or we are able to teleport... from say Surrey to UBC in the blink of an eye...

Everyone knows it's going to be RRT, just whether it's going to be a combo or all the way to UBC.

Save money on the study and tell City of Vancouver to simply make the existing parking lanes bus only during rush hour.

Saves translink money and makes the buses go faster.

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Transit users south of the Fraser River will take the hit for a decision by Metro Vancouver mayors not to surrender any more property tax to TransLink.

The mayors have essentially rejected giving the Lower Mainland transportation authority any more of their precious property-tax revenue. That means TransLink can't embark on an ambitious expansion of bus ser-vice to the fast-growing suburbs in the south, according to Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie.

"Because there's no permanent source of funding that's been identified, much less legislated, that means the bus service south of the Fraser, the expansions to it, are going to be dramatically reduced," said Brodie on Sunday.

The Mayors Council for Region-al Transportation also wants changes to how TransLink is run - something that has been a sore point for them since then-transportation minister Kevin Falcon replaced the elected board with a private corporate board that meets behind closed doors.

The mayors also believe another audit of TransLink isn't required. That audit was suggested by Premier Christy Clark, but it follows one done in 2009 by the provincial comptroller-general.

On Thursday, the mayors voted to turf the two-year, $30-million-per-year increase in property-tax funding they had agreed to last fall.

The mayors were upset that Transportation Minister Blair Lek-strom turned down their request to raise money from either a vehicle levy or tolls, so they backed away from committing to more property taxes.

The Evergreen Line will continue. In jeopardy is the transit expansion that was to accompany it, including a B-Line bus down King George Boulevard and express service on the special bus lanes of the new Port Mann Bridge.

Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts isn't happy with the situation.

"This will be a significant setback for the city," said Watts, who is out of the country but responded by email. "There has to be a sustain-able funding model in place.

"We have all paid for the infra-structure north of the Fraser and in the northeast sector," she said. "South of the Fraser deserves the same infrastructure as those com-munities north of the Fraser."

TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis is expected to answer questions Tuesday. Lekstrom didn't respond Sunday to a request for an inter-view by press time.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Mayors+axing+expansion/6464686/story.html#ixzz1sLigb3cV

Bad news Dianne, the business case for funding anything is always better north of the fraser. The only way to convince them to spend the money generated south of the fraser on those actually paying the taxes to give them an alternative would be to not give them those taxes in the first place.

When your in a one sided relationship the solution isn't to beg for fairness. The solution is to realize how much better you can do going it alone and lead the charge to make the changes needed on your own if they refuse to listen.

If we're going to end up tolling all the north south crossings (and this is inevitable) we might as well do that now, collect our own gas and property taxes, and then see if we can't afford even some a bloody express bus network south of fraser. I suspect there would be enough money leftover to not even worry about charging fares....

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I don't doubt that the business case will ALWAYS be better to invest north of the fraser. That will always be the case. In fact it is a self reinforcing event since it drives density....

What is rediculous is that the business case is ALWAYS to increase taxes in a way that hits people living south of fraser the hardest (like the new gas taxes and the soon to be everywhere tolls) and that the first thing to cut (just announced the so called soon to be coming south of fraser express buses are now cancelled, exactly as I predicted) are always south of the fraser.

You will have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for the people lining up to go to UBC who get their subsidised passes when my choices are to pay through the nose to sit in congestion or cough up what their pass costs a month to ride a milk run bus that is still very busy and spend twice as much time commuting.

Perhaps if they actually ran transit (the rapid, express kind) to the regional town centres then the dense development would follow.

As is, right or wrong, there NO REASON WHATSOEVER for south of fraser residents to be in translink. It's a one way relationship and we're on the wrong side.

Those types of investments don't come from $30m of property taxes. They come from billions of dollars of provincial and federal funding. $30m is for operating expenses.

Most of the semi-sustainable routes are north of the Fraser because there is the density already in place to support them. The least sustainable routes are south of the Fraser. I recall reading an article a few years ago about how this one bus driver drove his route in South Surrey all day long and picked up only a handful of passengers.

There is no viable case to support those buses you want. You want a sustainable funding model, but you want to add more bus routes in the area which requires the highest subsidies?

Having a suburban model is unsustainable. Yeah you get your big yard out in the burbs with a house and no local traffic (which the people north of the Fraser don't get), and none of the people south of the Fraser have properly paid for it. They consume more resources and burn more gas getting around. I grew up south of the Fraser. We had to drive EVERYWHERE. Gas was cheap, land was cheap, so why not?

Now that gas is getting more expensive (it is still stupidly cheap and doesn't reflect it's true environmental costs), people are realizing that transit is the way to go. But the suburbanites want a $100m rapid transit station built in their neighbourhood to serve 2000 people in their 1/4 acre lots. It just doesn't work.

Geez, what if gas was $2.50/L?

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