ronthecivil Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If they do, then they can stop subsidizing north of Fraser transit, but drink from the Fraser River instead of the Capilano, Seymour and Coquitlam Lake reservoirs. Incidentily, there's no reason to have a messy divorce. There's no reason to stop the existing agreements of the Greater Van Sewer District and the Greater Van water district. Pretty sure that's not where the gripe is. If they DO decide to have a messy divorce we can see how Annacys Island and it's industrial customers feel about joining the high tax urban north side or the less urban south side, especially given the inevitable line of tolls (SFRD or not) along the Fraser, are they more keen to City of Van OR Deltaport and the States toll free? I am sure we can find a new source of water easier than the north could find a new place to empty the crappers of all of Burnaby and New West! I think we know what organization the south really wants out of. If the GVRD wants to marry itself to the buses that's their priority but rest assured once the tolls go in that anger south of the river will not just be felt by the odd councilor in Langley. If they insist on having twice as much water but half the sewage capacity because they want to get messy I can guarantee you that when the time comes the people in the south will be willing to pay the price of going it on our own - in the long term it will still be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) My transit funding proposal - killing two birds with one stone. Throughout the lower mainland we have insane house prices and a funding crisis for transit. Much of the blame for the housing prices is due to rampant speculation, some of it from foreign money. So I propose to do a spin on what is done in the states some times. If you live in the house you own, you pay regular transit property tax. If you don't, you pay triple. Let's look at the effect. If you are an owner and live in your house, no effect. In you own several houses, you have no increase in your own house. On the other houses you will have a higher property tax rate. However, that will be considered a cost in your income assessment for the rental property so it will offset your provincial and federal taxes. If you are a foreign dad who bought his kid a house to live in for school you pay triple. If you want to sign the house over to the kid that the kid pays regular. This stops the money for this operation from living overseas. If your a speccer flipper who owns one of the many empy condos and houses sitting around the region, well, welcome to a big tax increase. Watch how nobody has sympathy for you. Same rule applies to everyone so should meet the muster of not being discriminatory. I suspect this funding increase would be acceptable to the vast majority of GVRD residents. But if the kid's living there, he's an official resident, and if the house is registered under his name, they'll just have to pay the same rate as any other resident, won't they? Or do we limit official residency to Canadian citizens and landed immigrants? Even then, how hard would it be for the kid to get landed immigrant papers? Also, how would this proposal stand up to a court challenge? Edited May 10, 2012 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 But if the kid's living there, he's an official resident, and if the house is registered under his name, they'll just have to pay the same rate as any other resident, won't they? Or do we limit official residency to Canadian citizens and landed immigrants? Even then, how hard would it be for the kid to get landed immigrant papers? Also, how would this proposal stand up to a court challenge? If the kid lives here and is an official resident and the house is in his name he pays the same as anyone else. I wouldn't care if he was on a studant visa or someone on some sort of long term work visa. Heck, I don't care if they are here illegally. As long as they actually live in the house they own then the tax for that house is the same as anyone else. The idea isn't to go after foreigners it's to go after speculators.... I don't know how it would stand up to a court challenge though I did ask Wetcoaster to comment since he poked around here today. However laws like this do exist in the states (where they charge more for things for out of state people) and we do have similar rules here (where we charge more for out of province tuition for example) so I don't THINK it would be a problem. You look around the city and apparently something like 20%+ of downtown condos are sitting empty as they are owned by speculators. Not only does this drive up the price of housing by making things more expensive, it makes it more expensive to provide housing be effectively locking people out of the areas that are easy to serve by transit. Ergo it makes sense to do this as the societal cost of what is going on is legitimate and it's one of the main contributors to why the region suffers from sprawl -> speculation has made the places that are already near transit unavailable to significant portions of the population and as a result sit empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opmac Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 North Vancouver Transit Centre to close in 2015 May 16, 2012 Closing historic site will save $20m over 10 years In a move that anticipates future growth on the North Shore while creating more efficiency within the system, TransLink will take the North Vancouver Transit Centre (NVT) out of service in 2015. The depot and maintenance yard, which opened in 1942, is nearing the end of its useful life, and without any other suitable site in the area, buses that serve North Vancouver routes will be based out of the Burnaby Transit Centre (BTC). NVT is now at its full capacity of 85 coaches. TransLink had been searching for a new location in North Vancouver since as far back as 2000, and in 2005 had identified a site on 1st Street between Pemberton and Philip. TransLink consulted with the District of North Vancouver and the Norgate Residents’ Association, but the council of the day did not support the necessary re-zoning and the deal could not go through. In 2008, NVT was upgraded to allow maintenance of low-floor accessible buses, which were introduced to the North Shore to improve accessibility for people with mobility concerns. “TransLink is continuing its efforts to implement ways and means of operating more cost effectively and efficiently; and closing the Third Street site is the wisest use of tax dollars,” says CEO Ian Jarvis, “Based on engineering condition surveys, we would have to close the depot in 2022, anyway. Just to keep it open that long would cost $4 million in upgrades, plus about $16 million in regular operating costs. Quite simply, NVT is no longer suitable for servicing and maintaining our buses properly.” “We will maintain the same standard of customer service,” adds Chief Operating Officer Doug Kelsey. “Forty per cent of the buses that serve North Vancouver routes are based at BTC already, and they account for 60 per cent of the service hours in North Van. The buses start moving into position around 5:30 am, when historically, there’s very little traffic congestion on the Ironworkers’ Memorial Bridge, so buses will be ready to go at their usual times each morning. What’s more, all our people will be re-located.” TransLink also considered expanding the West Vancouver Transit Centre on Lloyd Avenue, which currently holds up to 80 coaches, but it was not possible to expand it to accommodate the 250 buses that growth projections estimate will be required to serve the North Shore by 2028. The timing of the closure will coincide with the commissioning of the new Hamilton Transit Centre (HTC) in Richmond. Some buses currently based at BTC will re-locate to HTC, making room for North Vancouver buses. http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Media/2012/May/North-Vancouver-Transit-Centre-to-close-in-2015.aspx In summary:North Vancouver Transit Centre will close in 2015, the Hamilton Transit Centre will open in 2015There are currently 85 buses at NVTC, they will all relocate to BTC.Presumably, 85 buses from BTC will relocate to HTC which has as capacity for 386 40-foot buses (and only 40-foot buses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 http://www.translink...se-in-2015.aspx In summary:North Vancouver Transit Centre will close in 2015, the Hamilton Transit Centre will open in 2015There are currently 85 buses at NVTC, they will all relocate to BTC.Presumably, 85 buses from BTC will relocate to HTC which has as capacity for 386 40-foot buses (and only 40-foot buses) Wake me up when there's regional rapid bus service south of fraser. Given their once again gearing up for expansion on the other side of the river while deferring any upgrades in the south I will assume I can expect that service approximately never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 http://www.translink...se-in-2015.aspx In summary:North Vancouver Transit Centre will close in 2015, the Hamilton Transit Centre will open in 2015There are currently 85 buses at NVTC, they will all relocate to BTC.Presumably, 85 buses from BTC will relocate to HTC which has as capacity for 386 40-foot buses (and only 40-foot buses) It seems pretty counterintuitive to close the bus depot in North Van, no matter how small the capacity, if there is growing demand for buses there. It's also going to waste more gas running them to and from Burnaby every day. Does this have more to do with NIMBY's not wanting more buses running through their neighbourhoods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Wake me up when there's regional rapid bus service south of fraser. Given their once again gearing up for expansion on the other side of the river while deferring any upgrades in the south I will assume I can expect that service approximately never. Hamilton is right next to the Alex Fraser Bridge. I'm sure they can store some 300-series buses there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Hamilton is right next to the Alex Fraser Bridge. I'm sure they can store some 300-series buses there. Wow, they are going to store buses for the North Shore there? I would think it foolish to store buses for Delta there! Have they ever tried to drive over the Alex Fraser Bridge*?!? *Speaking of which, since the tolls are going to come, I have figured out the problem. It's not the light at 72nd. All that does is act as a giant ramp meter allowing the delta traffic better gaps to merge onto the bridge. Getting rid of the light wouldn't do much as the traffic is still back up past the light and in the other direction getting on. The problem is that to maintain basic lane continuity the bridge needs to be five lanes each direction (two 99, two 99A, one Annasis). Not sure how to solve it but any toll suggestions had better have a proposal to do so! Edit: The fact that the south of fraser bus depot as no ability to handle articulated buses (in a facilty not even built yet) goes to show how fanciful an idea even regional Bline service south of fraser is. Edited May 18, 2012 by ronthecivil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Wow, they are going to store buses for the North Shore there? I would think it foolish to store buses for Delta there! Have they ever tried to drive over the Alex Fraser Bridge*?!? Going from the depot in the am and back to it in the pm would run counter to the rush hour traffic, wouldn't it? And since the North Van buses are getting pushed down into the Burnaby depot, I imagine it'll be mostly the Burnaby buses getting pushed into the Hamilton depot. Edited May 18, 2012 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Going from the depot in the am and back to it in the pm would run counter to the rush hour traffic, wouldn't it? And since the North Van buses are getting pushed down into the Burnaby depot, I imagine it'll be mostly the Burnaby buses getting pushed into the Hamilton depot. If they were going south on 91 in the am they would be fine. Going north in the PM no such luck, the congestion frequently backs up to 64th going northbound even in the PM. Now if there are buses going to Burnaby from that area with the rush on purpose you have to wonder what the hell they are thinking. Besides the addition of buses that already fully crazy bridge (worse than the Port Mann, in the mornings I drive all the way through Surrey to avoid it preferring to take my chances with the 152 onramp!) will soon have all the people from Surrey trying to dodge the tolls who will be fed on mass via the SFPR! Translink has a bus route from North Delta that goes over the Alex Fraser and Queensbourough bridges. Surely they know of the horrors that presents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 If they were going south on 91 in the am they would be fine. Going north in the PM no such luck, the congestion frequently backs up to 64th going northbound even in the PM. Now if there are buses going to Burnaby from that area with the rush on purpose you have to wonder what the hell they are thinking. Besides the addition of buses that already fully crazy bridge (worse than the Port Mann, in the mornings I drive all the way through Surrey to avoid it preferring to take my chances with the 152 onramp!) will soon have all the people from Surrey trying to dodge the tolls who will be fed on mass via the SFPR! Translink has a bus route from North Delta that goes over the Alex Fraser and Queensbourough bridges. Surely they know of the horrors that presents! Would a bus and HOV lane help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Hamilton is right next to the Alex Fraser Bridge. I'm sure they can store some 300-series buses there. Don't forget that there's some buses like the 410 that can shift from Steveston to Hamilton, freeing up space in Steveston for 60-footers to serve South-of-Fraser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Would a bus and HOV lane help? Only if they were the 11th and 12th lanes. It's not as obvious northbound (mostly due to how poorly the delta interchanges are designed) but it is southbound. When you head south you have two jammed lanes of 99, two jammed lanes of 91, and one jammed lane from the island all merging into three lanes. Ironically that directions works better because at least there's an orderly merge. Once your through the merge (near the crest of the bridge) it picks up a bit and once you pass the first interchange (which is a double lane exit) your almost full speed and once you hit 72nd it's 120 km/h to 91 because you don't have do deal with the delta traffic. Similarily when you get to 99 it slows down on either side as you have a fairly stead stream of traffic merging onto that road southbound. You MIGHT be able to fix that by having an auxiliary lane from the highway to highway intersection to the next interchange. Any BUS/HOV lanes would have to be in addition to solving the basic lane continuity problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Don't forget that there's some buses like the 410 that can shift from Steveston to Hamilton, freeing up space in Steveston for 60-footers to serve South-of-Fraser. Which would force them to go in the tunnel which is not fun either. Do the people in translink understand how crappy the commute is over the Fraser in either direction? It certainly doesn't scream common sense? If they wanted a south of fraser bus depot put it in South Surrey or Cloverdale in the industrial area! Most routes are in Surrey already. For the ones that come out of delta it would be a bit busy but not THAT bad...... The irony of taxing the hell out of commuters to encourage them to take transit and then locating all their bases where it's as cheap as possible for the land (trading it off for an expensive commute) would be laughable if it wasn't so sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Only if they were the 11th and 12th lanes. By that, do you mean those lanes get filled with high occupancy vehicles, or nobody abides by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 By that, do you mean those lanes get filled with high occupancy vehicles, or nobody abides by them? All three lanes of the Alex Fraser are at capacity already. Designating one of them as HOV would make it faster for HOVS to get there but depending on which lane it was would make the switch from one side to the other depending on where you going bad even for the people in that lane. And even under existing traffic flows (soon to be massively increased by toll dodgers) that would make the lane continuity pinch EVEN WORSE for general traffic. You would have HOV people roaring past a practical parking lot of vehicles extending down to hwy 10 on the highway and into Surrey on the local Delta roads. In fact, as much as one could say in response to "the new Putello should not have tolls" simply "What, do you hate New West?" you could similarly say in reponse to no toll on the Alex Fraser "what, do you hate North Delta?" Which is why I know it will be tolled (and generate massive, like enough to finance 2-4 BILLION worth of improvements). Which is why I am trying to generate a solution in my head to fix the traffic and painting in some HOV lanes will not cut it. (That would work on a lot of Vancouver streeets though!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denguin Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The West Van bus depot could be easily expanded. There's a massive empty lot sitting across from it... the only complication would be the movement to save the trees occupying the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The West Van bus depot could be easily expanded. There's a massive empty lot sitting across from it... the only complication would be the movement to save the trees occupying the lot. Since West Van Transit is a separate operating company staffed by a separate union, is it prohibited from using Coast Mountain's depots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Translink's new transit frequency map: http://buzzer.transl...-2012-05-11.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denguin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Since West Van Transit is a separate operating company staffed by a separate union, is it prohibited from using Coast Mountain's depots? Sorry I didn't answer your question, but I have no idea! Although there's no official documentation I've found on it, I'm pretty sure Coast Mountain rents/passes busses to West Van Blue Bus Transit. 1) West Van does not use the GPS system, yet some of our busses have the GPS display signs inside completely un-operational. 2) Also, West Van busses are numbered in a three digit system: where the first two digits represent the year of purchase, and the last one represents the bus # that year (ex. the first bus purchased in '99 would have a number of 991, the second that year would have 992, etc.). Some, if not all, of our Nova Busses we have do not follow that numbering system, and instead have the 'B' designation found on most Coast Mountain busses... My point being that I think the two contracters are on good relations, so I'd think it'd be entirely possible to "share" depots. Translink's new transit frequency map: http://buzzer.transl...-2012-05-11.pdf ^That looks like it took a long time to draw up... Edited May 30, 2012 by Denguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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