ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 (edited) This is a great topic. I often dig up the old threads just to look at the pictures, videos, etc. Better than what translink provides! Nitro, a couple of questions seeing as you seem to be in the know: -) The King Ed. station entrance is on the NW corner? Are there more of the cut-away illustrations similiar to the last one you posted for the other stations? -) Has there been any decision about the long-proposed underground UBC loop? I was at an open house last year, I asked a bunch of questions to which I didn;t get satisfactory answers (TREK i think). At that time I was told bikes will not be able to board in the underground loop due to space/safety limitations. This made me irate, how many buses will be full by the time the get to the village? Is this suppose to enourage alternative transportation? Also, they had no idea if/how this loop would function within the context of the proposed rapid transit project. -) How would a tunnel under the inlet connect to the upper levels, this has always been the problem with that proposal ($$) For the people bitching about the 480/491/496 you should have tried to take the bus to from ubc in the 90s. Whada nightmare. Just so you know, he is talking about a transit tunnel, not a road tunnel. A widened Lion's gate brige COULD connect to the upper levels, it's not very far, but your property costs would be pretty high, not to mention your political one (although no doubt many on the North shore would applaud this.) It would still be cheaper than any road tunnel (or transit tunnel for that matter) under the inlet. Edited September 12, 2008 by ronthecivil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Careful with your congestion pricing Nitro! We already have a trend of businesses relocating (and most new growth occuring) in suburban locations.... Some bed time reading... http://www.publicpurpose.com/pp87-lcc.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Express Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Personally I think all these Skytrain lines should have already been built when the costs were less than today and traffic wouldn't be as bad as it is now. I believe ALL fuel taxes collected should go towards the transportation infrastructure. There is probably enough available where any new tax wouldn't be neccessary. Translink has to go. I don't like the idea of an unelected group telling me I have to pay this much for this project and that project, meanwhile they can give themselves a pay hike anytime they feel like it and not be accountable in fact that goes with anything they do. Bring back BC Transit. The federal and provincial governments and Canadian Pacific should get together to install a second track from Mission to Chilliwack and the run the West Coast Express out to Chilliwack with an additional station in Abbotsford, because of all the growth going on in the central and eastern fraser valley. I know this one is a pipe dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Personally I think all these Skytrain lines should have already been built when the costs were less than today and traffic wouldn't be as bad as it is now. I believe ALL fuel taxes collected should go towards the transportation infrastructure. There is probably enough available where any new tax wouldn't be neccessary. Translink has to go. I don't like the idea of an unelected group telling me I have to pay this much for this project and that project, meanwhile they can give themselves a pay hike anytime they feel like it and not be accountable in fact that goes with anything they do. Bring back BC Transit. The federal and provincial governments and Canadian Pacific should get together to install a second track from Mission to Chilliwack and the run the West Coast Express out to Chilliwack with an additional station in Abbotsford, because of all the growth going on in the central and eastern fraser valley. I know this one is a pipe dream There goes your healthcare and eduction funding. Good luck with that. Easier to just have a new commuter train on the south side of the Fraser on the existing tracks. Look out the fraser valley heritage rail society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOfTheSame Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 How big was Vancouver and UBC in the 90s, compared to today? If 491 and 496 didn't use the 60ft articulates, there'd be so many stranded passengers at 41, 49, and 70th... It was still large, there were many more b-lots though. iirc there was no such thing as 491/496. It was 401/403/404/407/.... that all went dt. Each one every 20 or 30 minutes or something like that. Either wat it sucked, way better now. Just so you know, he is talking about a transit tunnel, not a road tunnel. A widened Lion's gate brige COULD connect to the upper levels, it's not very far, but your property costs would be pretty high, not to mention your political one (although no doubt many on the North shore would applaud this.) It would still be cheaper than any road tunnel (or transit tunnel for that matter) under the inlet. I choked on my water a bit when I read you are talking about a transit tunnel. As in mass transit? heh. It may be short sighted on my part but I just dont see a demand increase that would justify that. If it were a mixed use tunnel that you could toll to recoup some of the cost it might be more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 It was still large, there were many more b-lots though. iirc there was no such thing as 491/496. It was 401/403/404/407/.... that all went dt. Each one every 20 or 30 minutes or something like that. Either wat it sucked, way better now. I choked on my water a bit when I read you are talking about a transit tunnel. As in mass transit? heh. It may be short sighted on my part but I just dont see a demand increase that would justify that. If it were a mixed use tunnel that you could toll to recoup some of the cost it might be more realistic. My dream scenario would be transit in a cut and cover tunnel through stanley park with six lanes of traffic beside it going over a BRIDGE. Your mixed use tunnel idea would never fly, they would NEVER want a third crossing over the inlet, especially into downtown! Best you can hope for is a widened causeway, and even that would be on the presumption that the top of stanley park causeway gets to be green again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOfTheSame Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 My dream scenario would be transit in a cut and cover tunnel through stanley park with six lanes of traffic beside it going over a BRIDGE. Your mixed use tunnel idea would never fly, they would NEVER want a third crossing over the inlet, especially into downtown! Best you can hope for is a widened causeway, and even that would be on the presumption that the top of stanley park causeway gets to be green again. I can't remember when, but wasn't there an NDP proposal to cut and cover Knight street to put an underground throughway that would eventually cross under the harbour around Main street and then proceed up Lonsdale or something. Thus allowing the Lions gate to be turned into a bus/bicycle/pedestrian bridge and allowing some of the land under the causeway to be reclaimed. Thinking about this now the cost seems prohibitive but in 50 or 60 years the allowed growth might offset this cost, i dunoo? Maybe if I were a civil, but Im not. I can understanding NEVER wanting a third crossing over the inlet, but underneath? And yes I read your previous posts about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I can't remember when, but wasn't there an NDP proposal to cut and cover Knight street to put an underground throughway that would eventually cross under the harbour around Main street and then proceed up Lonsdale or something. Thus allowing the Lions gate to be turned into a bus/bicycle/pedestrian bridge and allowing some of the land under the causeway to be reclaimed. Thinking about this now the cost seems prohibitive but in 50 or 60 years the allowed growth might offset this cost, i dunoo? Maybe if I were a civil, but Im not. I can understanding NEVER wanting a third crossing over the inlet, but underneath? And yes I read your previous posts about this. Vancouver will never allow a freeway through the city, underground or not. And the last thing you ever want to build is an underground freeway. See "the big dig" as a reference. It would be nice to see Boundary be upgraded to expressway (aka urban arterial, a 80 km/h street) with timed lights and a better freeway connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 Tunnels under the inlet would be REDICULOUSLY expensive. You would need 3.5km of tunnel that would only be servicing water vs. no more than 1km of bridge span at Lion's gate. Depending on grades and the depth of the inlet, it might not even be feasible. Keep in mind transit can only go down at 6% max so with the amount of space you spend going down to be deep enough to get suffecient cover under the ocean floor would probably be at least a kilometer on either side on it's own. If your doing that anyways might as well service the west end. Rule number on on crossing location is to cross at the narrowest point, hence the first and second narrows bridges. At least with bored tunnel through downtown you could put in highly HIGHLY desirable stops along the way, the part through Stanley park could be cut and cover, and the other end of end of the Lion's gate isn't exactly nowhere's ville. If it was, I would suggest putting a direct freeway connection from the end of the new road bridge to upper levels. And you can put a ferry under the Lion's Gate, you just can't put a scheduled ferry under the Lion's gate. It is frequently closed (the water transit portion that is) to allow for dangerous cargo vessel passage. And no, they aren't going to wait for your ferry. Fair enough....though either way, a transit link to the North Shore is decades and decades away. I think you're limiting it a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 -) The King Ed. station entrance is on the NW corner? Are there more of the cut-away illustrations similiar to the last one you posted for the other stations? unfortunately, no. -) Has there been any decision about the long-proposed underground UBC loop? I was at an open house last year, I asked a bunch of questions to which I didn;t get satisfactory answers (TREK i think). At that time I was told bikes will not be able to board in the underground loop due to space/safety limitations. This made me irate, how many buses will be full by the time the get to the village? Is this suppose to enourage alternative transportation? Also, they had no idea if/how this loop would function within the context of the proposed rapid transit project. I was there at the open house too....i thought the capacity of the loop was insufficient, and wouldn't meet long-term demands. I mean, it has a pretty nice layout and accessibility would be great, but there are not enough bus bays in my opinion...nor is there enough space for people to wait and move around. It also really seems like a lost opportunity to not put retail/food outlets down there in the concourse, similar to the wealth of retail options you'd see in a Hong Kong MTR station concourse. And why are there no escalators??? Also shortsighted was the decision not to put the trolleys underground as well, instead they will remain above ground. Ideally, i'd like to see a three level concourse......first level is of course the entrance, second level would be the concourse with the retail options as well as the bus bays and in the centre of the concourse you'll have fare gates around a 2-metre glass wall the corners the area with escalators/staircase that'll lead you down to the SkyTrain platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 unfortunately, no. I was there at the open house too....i thought the capacity of the loop was insufficient, and wouldn't meet long-term demands. I mean, it has a pretty nice layout and accessibility would be great, but there are not enough bus bays in my opinion...nor is there enough space for people to wait and move around. It also really seems like a lost opportunity to not put retail/food outlets down there in the concourse, similar to the wealth of retail options you'd see in a Hong Kong MTR station concourse. And why are there no escalators??? Also shortsighted was the decision not to put the trolleys underground as well, instead they will remain above ground. Ideally, i'd like to see a three level concourse......first level is of course the entrance, second level would be the concourse with the retail options as well as the bus bays and in the centre of the concourse you'll have fare gates around a 2-metre glass wall the corners the area with escalators/staircase that'll lead you down to the SkyTrain platform. Whole problem with the underground loop is that it a skytrain extension should come in above ground. Very little point in it being in a tunnel down university blvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePointblank Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Translink has to go. I don't like the idea of an unelected group telling me I have to pay this much for this project and that project, meanwhile they can give themselves a pay hike anytime they feel like it and not be accountable in fact that goes with anything they do. Bring back BC Transit. Because career bureaucrats would know the inner workings of Translink better than any elected politician can? A politician is only in power for around 4-8 years, not enough time to learn all the intricate stuff that affects planning. Bureaucrats are in office for much much longer, say 15-30 years (or more) and they would have gained valuable experience in how the transit system worked, what's feasible and what's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) How big was Vancouver and UBC in the 90s, compared to today? If 491 and 496 didn't use the 60ft articulates, there'd be so many stranded passengers at 41, 49, and 70th... They still don't use 60-footers most of the time. And I've been stranded at 41st, 49th and 70th too many times to count. Those who don't take 491/496 on a regular basis do NOT know how bad it is once you get past Broadway (or past Hastings at Howe, for some trips). Edited September 13, 2008 by BuckyHermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's What She Said Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 The 491 was absolutely ridiculous today, apparently there was an accident on Granville? Also it seems that they're using those yellow coach buses for 490/491/496 too often... sure they're more comfy if you actually get a seat but it sucks for people standing. Plus so many idiots don't get out of their seat until the last possible second, when they will attempt to plow through everyone while shouting "WAIT WAIT!" Come on people, unless you have some sort of disability, you can get up 20 seconds before the bus actually gets to the stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 The 491 was absolutely ridiculous today, apparently there was an accident on Granville? Also it seems that they're using those yellow coach buses for 490/491/496 too often... sure they're more comfy if you actually get a seat but it sucks for people standing. Plus so many idiots don't get out of their seat until the last possible second, when they will attempt to plow through everyone while shouting "WAIT WAIT!" Come on people, unless you have some sort of disability, you can get up 20 seconds before the bus actually gets to the stop. I'm not surprised... I got a relatively early 491 trip today (after the 491 I was supposed to catch passed me by because it was full, causing an additional 30-minute wait for the next trip), and by the way people were driving, an accident seemed inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_1 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know how you guys can use transit on a daily basis espicially on the non express bus to UBC from commercial. You usually have someone who reeks and smells so bad that you want to throw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbug Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know how you guys can use transit on a daily basis espicially on the non express bus to UBC from commercial. You usually have someone who reeks and smells so bad that you want to throw up. You learn to cope with it. It's a lot easier to deal with when you pass a gas station and look at the price of gas. And I probably save a few hundred dollars a month taking transit (in Victoria): $63 for a pro-pass VS car payment + insurance + gas + parking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know how you guys can use transit on a daily basis espicially on the non express bus to UBC from commercial. You usually have someone who reeks and smells so bad that you want to throw up. Breathe in. Breath out. Repeat until your stop comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslet Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Breathe in. Breath out. Repeat until your stop comes. I usually breathe in by half covering my nose with like a shirt sleeve or something so it kinda filters out the odor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevforever Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 all these plans sound good but maybe they should look into approving some routes first as i know some friends of mine who go to capilano and live in Coquitlam and have to take 2 sometimes 3(depending on the time) buses to and from school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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