You gave your today for our tomorrow

[Rink on Renfrew]

"If you don't believe your country, should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by living somewhere else"

-Stompin Tom Connors

Alot of people take for granted what we have in Canada and how we achieved it, let's never forget the sacrifices of our country-men. Long past and current.

I'm usually at the Victory Square ceremony but this year I'll be in New York. I'm hoping to go by the Canadian embassy or find a place where Canadians would gather out of country. I wear my poppy with pride and with respect.

[SlayerS_BoxeR]

While I appreciate your sentiments in this regard, I do not agree nor do I support the bolded part above.

From the Veteran's Affairs Canada site:

(http://www.vac-acc.g...member/r_intro)

Remembrance Day is the time we as Canadians remember our fellow Canadians and Allies who gave their lives for their country, making the ultimate sacrifice. I will not be apologetic that I have not the inclination or time to spare in honouring the war dead of those who fought against us. Call me cold, call me unsympathetic but on November 11th at the 11th hour, I will be honouring our war dead and our soldiers currently serving in the armed forces both overseas and here at home.

Lest We Forget, indeed....

Edit: On a purely personal level, I do have empathy for the families and loved ones who have lost a father, husband, lover, son, uncle, brother, cousin, nephew etc. no matter what the circumstance, war or otherwise. War is hell, as Sherman said, and it is my own countrymen who went through hell for we Canadians who are deserving, and who are the recipients of, my respect and honour, not those who were trying to kill them.

Technically, you're wrong. It doesn't say anywhere that we Canadians should remember our allies. It says "our canadians who died in whatever war" or something like that. To say that Rememberance Day is for our allies would be incorrect. It commemorates the CANADIANS who died in the wars, not Americans or British, etc.

Edited November 7, 2010 by SlayerS_BoxeR

[Bertuzzi Babe]

Technically, you're wrong. It doesn't say anywhere that we Canadians should remember our allies. It says "our canadians who died in whatever war" or something like that. To say that Rememberance Day is for our allies would be incorrect. It commemorates the CANADIANS who died in the wars, not Americans or British, etc.

If you want to get nitpicky..... yes, you are correct. Because Remembrance Day was originally Armistice Day in Britain and throughout the Commonwealth, I included our British Allies and the other members of the Commonwealth in my comments. I have edited my original post so it is 'technically' correct.

November 11, 1918 was to become known as Armistice Day in remembrance of those millions who gave and lost their lives in World War I.

The end began in early November. A war that had begun in August 1914 under bright summer skies with the glow of patriotism and promise of glory now staggered to a close as the leaden clouds of November 1918 reflected the somber mood of wars end.

World War I - The Great War The War To End All Wars one of the most horrific wars of all time, was finally over. The Armistice agreement was signed in a railway car in a forest near the French city of Compiegne at the much repeated eleventh hour, of the eleventh day, of the eleventh month. Later a granite block was placed at the site engraved with the words: "Here on 11th November 1918 perished the criminal pride of the German Empire defeated by the free people whom it set out to enslave."

King Georges RequestOn the first anniversary of Armistice Day, King George V requested that all nations within the British Empire and Commonwealth should afford an opportunity "so that in perfect stillness the thoughts of every one may be concentrated on reverent remembrance of the glorious dead." The kings wishes were observed throughout Canada and all businesses, offices and traffic came to a halt for two minutes at exactly 11:00 a.m. local time.

Adopting the Poppy

In 1921, one of the last acts of the Arthur Meighens Unionist government was to draft legislation making Armistice Day a legal holiday to be celebrated on the same day as Thanksgiving Day, which was to be the first Monday of the week in which November 11 fell. It was in this same year that the Canadian Great War Veterans Association adopted the poppy as the official symbol of "remembrance for war dead". The first poppies were cloth replicas manufactured in France but by November 1922 disabled soldiers in Vetcraft shops throughout Canada made the poppies. The Canadian Legion took over the project when in was formed in 1925.

A Day of Remembrance

The two holidays remained merged for ten years before it was finally decided, at the urging of veterans and the Canadian Legion, that while Thanksgiving was a day of celebration and goodwill, Armistice Day was a day of somber remembrance. A bill was passed in 1931 proclaiming that Armistice Day be renamed Remembrance Day and conducted on November 11, while Thanksgiving Day was moved to the third Monday in October. (Thanksgiving would later be moved to the second Monday in October in 1957.)

Today, Remembrance Day is to commemorate Canadians who perished in the First and Second World Wars, the Korean War, the War in Afghanistan and the many Canadian Peacekeeping situations. Every year millions of Canadians gather in all parts of the country, around myriad shapes and sizes of cenotaphs, to remember those who gave their lives so that others could live in peace.

[German_Canucks_Supporter]

"If you don't believe your country, should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by living somewhere else"

-Stompin Tom Connors

I don't agree with that. Nobody had any influence on where he or she was born, so being proud to be whatever countryman you are, means you are proud of being something you did not achieve yourself. You can take pride in certain aspects of your culture, way of life, etc., but family and friends should definitely be more important than an abstract concept of country.

[Starbug]

Starbug - I'm not sure if it was intentional, but the tombstone you have on the original post is that of an unknown soldier of the 72nd Battalion. The actual name of the Regiment is the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, and they are based here in Vancouver. This Regiment has contributed men to each and every conflict since WW1 and continues to today with upwards of 100 of the currently serving men being Afghan vets.

Well done.

Lest we forget.

I did not know that - this just happened to be my best photo of a single tombstone of Canadian soldier.

[]

My grandmother had always told my father that his father had witness some of his best friends die next to him as a way to maybe help my father understand why his father had left him the way he did.....

I actually have all my grandfathers paybooks, maps, birth certificate, and military service records. My father gave them to me along with the only picture he had of his father for my 25th birthday, the greatest gift i have ever recieved. My father still seems to have questions as to why he left him and his family the way he did and maybe even a little anger. Questions he will never know the answer.

My mom's dad also committed suicide when she was very young (younger than 5, I believe). He was one of only two family members known to have survived the camps. Someone tracked down his brother a few years ago, and found him at the head of a very large family. Some people manage to adjust to life after war, and some, unfortunately, don't.

[The Shirokovian One]

While I appreciate your sentiments in this regard, I do not agree nor do I support the bolded part above.

From the Veteran's Affairs Canada site:

(http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/remember/r_intro)

Remembrance Day is the time we as Canadians remember our fellow Canadians who gave their lives for their country, making the ultimate sacrifice. I will not be apologetic that I have not the inclination or time to spare in honouring the war dead of those who fought against us. Call me cold, call me unsympathetic but on November 11th at the 11th hour, I will be honouring our war dead and our soldiers currently serving in the armed forces both overseas and here at home.

Lest We Forget, indeed....

Edit: On a purely personal level, I do have empathy for the families and loved ones who have lost a father, husband, lover, son, uncle, brother, cousin, nephew etc. no matter what the circumstance, war or otherwise. War is hell, as Sherman said, and it is my own countrymen who went through hell for we Canadians who are deserving, and who are the recipients, of my respect and honour, not those who were trying to kill them.

I will be at the war memorial on the 11th, as I do every year to show my respect, and how grateful I am to thoese who were willing to give up everything ( my grandparents ww1 and my father in ww2).. but it is ignorent to think that only Canadians should be remembered. As no other time in the year will I think about the troops, it is good to remember about the young boys on the other side who we forced to fight. They might've not been fighting for my freedom.. I remind you about the many stories in ww2 on christmas when the allies and germans celebrated together in no mans land.

[SlayerS_BoxeR]

If you want to get nitpicky..... yes, you are correct. Because Remembrance Day was originally Armistice Day in Britain and throughout the Commonwealth, I included our British Allies and the other members of the Commonwealth in my comments. I have edited my original post so it is 'technically' correct.

I can't believe you deleted that other post, regardless of the personal comments. He raised a serious point about Rememberance Day and how it applies under our current culture. For example, should we really expect Japanese or Italian Canadians to all wear poppies? Who are we to deny their right to respect their grandparents who fought in wars? They need a way to remember the soldiers who fought for them, enemy or not.

Ah, the other guy totally said it better. Way to pretend as if his post never even existed.

Edited November 8, 2010 by SlayerS_BoxeR

[Bertuzzi Babe]

I can't believe you deleted that other post, regardless of the personal comments. He raised a serious point about Rememberance Day and how it applies under our current culture. For example, should we really expect Japanese or Italian Canadians to all wear poppies? Who are we to deny their right to respect their grandparents who fought in wars? They need a way to remember the soldiers who fought for them, enemy or not.

Ah, the other guy totally said it better. Way to pretend as if his post never even existed.

Perhaps you need to read the CDC board rules regarding personal attacks if you are in such disbelief that such a post would be deleted.

I NEVER said that that families/friends of those who fought against us shouldn't be allowed to remember their war dead. I also NEVER said that we should expect ANYONE to wear a poppy and/or remember our CANADIAN war dead if they are not so inclined. Perhaps you suffer from the same lack of reading comprehension as our suspended 'friend'? Read it again as I am not about to retype it all here again.

If one has a valid point they wish to make in a post, it should not be couched in personal attack comments else it will be deleted. And I do not respond to rubbish posts that pretend to be something more than they are not.

[Bertuzzi Babe]

And this one below says it all......

[JAH]

Remembrance Day is for remembering Canada's (and her Allies) war dead. Over the years, the war dead of subsequent wars were added, and more recently, the concept of vets suffering injuries (both physical and psychological) were also added.

Around the same time, I have noticed the sentiment of honouring all war dead, both friend and foe. I personally don't have an issue with it, especially the idea of remembering the German war dead of WW1 and 2. With the exception of the ultra-nationalistic and anti-semetic SS, there really wasn't a difference in the quality of soldier or man on either side. It has been remarked by many soldiers of both sides that in the rare occurance when they met (on the battlefield but in some form of truce) that they were amazed how similar the enemy was to them.

[JAH]

I don't agree with that. Nobody had any influence on where he or she was born, so being proud to be whatever countryman you are, means you are proud of being something you did not achieve yourself. You can take pride in certain aspects of your culture, way of life, etc., but family and friends should definitely be more important than an abstract concept of country.

Pride in your country, or more specificaly you're citizenship, is not created by a birth certificate, but rather by being brought up with certain common and distinguishable beliefs, morals, ethics, etc.

Just as you can't demand pride, you shouldn't be critical of it either.

[SlayerS_BoxeR]

Perhaps you need to read the CDC board rules regarding personal attacks if you are in such disbelief that such a post would be deleted.

I NEVER said that that families/friends of those who fought against us shouldn't be allowed to remember their war dead. I also NEVER said that we should expect ANYONE to wear a poppy and/or remember our CANADIAN war dead if they are not so inclined. Perhaps you suffer from the same lack of reading comprehension as our suspended 'friend'? Read it again as I am not about to retype it all here again.

If one has a valid point they wish to make in a post, it should not be couched in personal attack comments else it will be deleted. And I do not respond to rubbish posts that pretend to be something more than they are not.

You haven't said whether or not you agree with second/third generation Canadians remembering their family members who fought for the enemy on Remembrance Day. It seems as though Remembrance Day officially restricts that from happening, but do you think that is fair? Do you think they should change it?

[MikeGillis58]

This is very frustrating! I'm looking to buy a poppy and donate money but I can't find where they sell poppies. They used to sell them at skytrain stations in previous years which was easy to access.

[Brunners]

I went to see that Vimy Ridge monument when I was 11 years old; on a french trip with school. Still sends shivers down my spine remembering just how it felt to stand there.

[old_time_hockey]

While I appreciate your sentiments in this regard, I do not agree nor do I support the bolded part above.

From the Veteran's Affairs Canada site:

(http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/remember/r_intro)

Remembrance Day is the time we as Canadians remember our fellow Canadians who gave their lives for their country, making the ultimate sacrifice. I will not be apologetic that I have not the inclination or time to spare in honouring the war dead of those who fought against us. Call me cold, call me unsympathetic but on November 11th at the 11th hour, I will be honouring our war dead and our soldiers currently serving in the armed forces both overseas and here at home.

Lest We Forget, indeed....

Edit: On a purely personal level, I do have empathy for the families and loved ones who have lost a father, husband, lover, son, uncle, brother, cousin, nephew etc. no matter what the circumstance, war or otherwise. War is hell, as Sherman said, and it is my own countrymen who went through hell for we Canadians who are deserving, and who are the recipients, of my respect and honour, not those who were trying to kill them.

You need to talk to more vets then. They all have respect and sympathy for the fallen on the other side. Both sides were carrying out orders. Doesn't make them any less human.

Infact, during WWI there was a respect for the other side when they would venture out into no mans land to collect bodies. If they truly wanted to be heartless robots they wouldn't have and gunned people down and bodies would have been left out there. BOTH sides realized and respected the human on the otherside even though they were both ordered to kill each other.

[old_time_hockey]

This is an interesting watch...A history prof who was a historical advisor in the production of the movie Passchendaele

And I agree with him. Passchendaele was just as important as Vimy but seems to get lost in our history. My great- great grandfather fought there and lived to come home.

[JAH]

And I agree with him. Passchendaele was just as important as Vimy but seems to get lost in our history. My great- great grandfather fought there and lived to come home.

Some pics of Passchendaele. I'm sorry for the size of the images...I can't seem to figure this thing out...

This is a before and after image....

A shot from the battlefield:

[Bertuzzi Babe]

[JAH]

Old Time Hockey:

I don't disagree with you on the importance of Passchendaele. The reason why Vimy was so important to the war and to Canada was due to the fact that the French and the Brits were unable to capture it (the French tried twice). As well, the Allies and the Germans both placed so much importance on the Ridge prior to it's capture. This was due to the concentrations of forces on both sides, as well as the fact that Vimy provided line of sight for a vast area to the east. If the Germans lost the Ridge, they would have to withdraw a considerable distance east as they would essentially be fish in a barrel if they attempted to stay. The Ridge was almost impossible to assault from the West, but it was totally impossible to assault from the east.

The artillery barage was enourmous. From Wiki: 'four hundred eighty 18 pounder field guns, one hundred thirty-eight 4.5 inch howitzers, ninety-six 2 inch trench mortars, twenty-four 9.45 inch mortars, supported by 245 corps-level siege guns and heavy mortars available to the Canadian Corps. This firepower gave a density of one heavy gun for every 20 yards (18 m) and one field gun for every 10 yards (9.1 m) of Canadian Corps frontage,[33] representing a considerable average increase, including three times the heavy guns, over the distribution of artillery at the Battle of the Somme a year earlier.' As well, the amount of shells available for the barrage was three times the norm. They also employed a new fuze that allowed the shells to expode with the slightest contact, allowing the cutting of barbed wire. Barbed wire entaglements may seem relatively benign, but they slow the advance and the assaulting troops have to stop and cut the wire, making them easy prey to enemy machine gun and rifle fire. Barbed wire (and other tactical innovations) is one of the principle reasons why WW1 was so deadly.

For Canada, it was the first time in our history that all 4 divisions of the Canadian Expeditionary Force (the Cdn Army) fought as one, under Canadian Command. This is very significant from a National pride stance.

The success of the Battle has been atributed to the ferocity of the Artillery barrage (heard and felt by the British PM outside his residence in London), the tactical innovations used by the Canadians (creeping artillery barrage, super quick fuzes, counter artillery barrages), and the ferocity and inteligence of the Canadian troops.

Vimy is a prime example of how to successfully attack a dug-in, well-defended enemy position with no tactical advantages. It is also a prime example of how ferocious a force the Canadian Army can be.

Losses:

Vimy: 10,600 Canadians, German losses unknown (significantly higher).

Passchendaele: 244,897 Allied, German 400,000.

From a 'bloodiest' perspective, Passchendaele is astronomical.

Lest We Forget.

Edited November 10, 2010 by JAH

[old_time_hockey]

For sure. Vimy was huge in terms of finally getting strategic and tactical advantage on the Germans and that it did show the rest of the world that the Canadians weren't just to be used as support units or reserves but infact were innovative and were able to get the job done where others had failed.

Like the prof in the video said it was because of their actions and reputation they earned at Vimy that Gen. Currie was asked if they could take this next ridge.

I just wish Passchendaele got a little more air time in history books in schools. It is mostly all about Vimy. Perhaps it was just the book my school used. Who knows.