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Kellan Tochkin Talk


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#1 ilikecanucks

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 01:01 PM

Surprised there isn't a topic dedicated solely to Kellan.

Quietly he is putting together a very good season on a very good Everett team.

Through 71 games he has 27 goals (up from 20 last year) and 67 points (4 back from last years totals).

He has however shown more willingness to compete shift in and shift out. He is a +23 and has 64 penalty minutes, which to me shows he is getting more involved.

Its nice to see he is grabbing the bull by the horns in terms of getting involved at both ends, and is shooting and scoring more often, and is also getting time on the PK.



Definately a good addition to a previously shallow prospect pool.

A long playoff run is likely in the cards, as Everett is a solid team.

Edited by ilikecanucks, 14 March 2010 - 01:02 PM.

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#2 CanuckRow

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 01:09 PM

Glad to see it. Excited to check him out at prospects camp next season. I'm sure he will be in a Moose jersey in the coming years.
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#3 Donky

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 01:12 PM

Looking forward to seeing Kellan in a Salmon Kings uniform for years to come!! ;)
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#4 frazzY

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 02:47 PM

he went to w j mouat secondary in abbotsford, where i grew up, my buddys lil bro went to school with him, iv heard about this kid even before he got drafted, it would be awesome if he can put up numbers like that at the nhl level one day
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#5 pg500

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:16 PM

he went to w j mouat secondary in abbotsford, where i grew up, my buddys lil bro went to school with him, iv heard about this kid even before he got drafted, it would be awesome if he can put up numbers like that at the nhl level one day


I thought he was undrafted? Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure we signed him, not drafted him. Again, don't quote me on that.
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#6 edlerrocks

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:17 PM

Your right, he went undrafted
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#7 b3.

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:18 PM

I thought he was undrafted? Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure we signed him, not drafted him. Again, don't quote me on that.

Yup.
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#8 Shattenkirk's Bald Spot

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:44 PM

Hoo rah :towel:
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#9 Dr. Hockey

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:53 PM

He's a small skilled forward right?

Anyone know who found him? (scout)
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#10 sport scout

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 04:31 PM

Lots of players in junior have had great seasons but cant make the nhl. I like his plus minus though

Edited by Bertuzzi187, 14 March 2010 - 04:31 PM.

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#11 ilikecanucks

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 04:42 PM

Looking forward to seeing Kellan in a Salmon Kings uniform for years to come!! ;)

Not sure why Prab Rai gets the guaranteed Moose spot, and Tochkin is going to be a career ECHLer.

I see Tochkin taking a couple more years in the 'dub before making the jump to pro hockey, but I see him as having much more upside than Rai.
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#12 Gnickers87

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 08:28 PM

Not sure why Prab Rai gets the guaranteed Moose spot, and Tochkin is going to be a career ECHLer.

I see Tochkin taking a couple more years in the 'dub before making the jump to pro hockey, but I see him as having much more upside than Rai.


Rai's skating ability will likely ensure he at least has a good shot at a career in the AHL. Although with Rai's skating and style of play, he strikes me as a guy that could/should bolt to Europe if it doesn't work for him at the NHL level.

Edited by Gnickers87, 14 March 2010 - 09:16 PM.

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#13 ilikecanucks

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 09:37 PM

Lots of players in junior have had great seasons but cant make the nhl. I like his plus minus though

You got any other tidbits of great insight?
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#14 RBork77

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 02:51 AM

Not sure why Prab Rai gets the guaranteed Moose spot, and Tochkin is going to be a career ECHLer.

I see Tochkin taking a couple more years in the 'dub before making the jump to pro hockey, but I see him as having much more upside than Rai.



He's physically weak (that's right, weak. Not "not strong enough," but weak.) and his skating ability is average. He's a good stick-handler and playmaker, but he doesn't look like NHL material. It'd be nice if he could play in the AHL for a few years, but he'll never survive in the NHL. If people think Wellwood is a liability, this kid would be an outright burden.
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#15 ilikecanucks

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:31 AM

He's physically weak (that's right, weak. Not "not strong enough," but weak.) and his skating ability is average. He's a good stick-handler and playmaker, but he doesn't look like NHL material. It'd be nice if he could play in the AHL for a few years, but he'll never survive in the NHL. If people think Wellwood is a liability, this kid would be an outright burden.






Hmmm.....a junior player isnt strong enough?

Its a good think, you can develop strength, if he has talent, he can get stronger.

Strength/Conditioning and skating are all things you can improve on, its skill/hockey sense that usually you cant.
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#16 RBork77

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 08:26 PM

Hmmm.....a junior player isnt strong enough?

Its a good think, you can develop strength, if he has talent, he can get stronger.

Strength/Conditioning and skating are all things you can improve on, its skill/hockey sense that usually you cant.



Yes. A Junior player who isn't strong enough. You have to remember that they are being compared to NHL hockey players, not your high school buddies.

Most scouts would claim the opposite of what you've said. It is easier to teach hockey sense than alter genetics. You can improve a player's strength, but for the most part genetics determine how strong a player can become, and that cannot be taught.
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#17 one night

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 08:33 PM

I guess to search is too difficult for some people.
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#18 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:18 PM

Yes. A Junior player who isn't strong enough. You have to remember that they are being compared to NHL hockey players, not your high school buddies.

Most scouts would claim the opposite of what you've said. It is easier to teach hockey sense than alter genetics. You can improve a player's strength, but for the most part genetics determine how strong a player can become, and that cannot be taught.


How can you teach hockey sense though? Maybe through extensive use of videos to help them learn to read plays, but that could take a LOT longer to develop than it does to improve your strength/conditioning and skating.
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#19 RBork77

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 02:22 PM

How can you teach hockey sense though? Maybe through extensive use of videos to help them learn to read plays, but that could take a LOT longer to develop than it does to improve your strength/conditioning and skating.



Coaching, practice, running drills, playing games. It depends who it is, but no, it does not take longer than training strength, plus there's no ceiling. Everyone has their genetic limits and Kellan Tochkin's ceiling is low, just like the top of his head.
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#20 bluesy_shoes

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 02:39 PM

Coaching, practice, running drills, playing games. It depends who it is, but no, it does not take longer than training strength, plus there's no ceiling. Everyone has their genetic limits and Kellan Tochkin's ceiling is low, just like the top of his head.


Hockey sense (intelligence) is genetic, too. You can encourage it, but there is definitely a ceiling.

No one wants a team of Derek Boogaard's.
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#21 RBork77

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 06:30 PM

Hockey sense (intelligence) is genetic, too. You can encourage it, but there is definitely a ceiling.

No one wants a team of Derek Boogaard's.



Obviously there are some pre-disposed intelligence quotients at play, but any scout will tell you you can't teach a player what was given to him by "god" but you can certainly improve his hockey ability and IQ.

This is why players with alot of talent and poor strength and size fall a long ways in drafts and players who may not have as much skill but are blessed with natural size and strength tend to go higher. But, obviously it only goes so far. I contend that players like Tochkin are just too weak to ever play a regular shift in the NHL, just like another former Everett Silvertip, Zach Hamill. The guy was an 8th overall pick but he's too damn weak to play in the NHL. terrible pick by the Bruins!
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#22 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 06:44 PM

Obviously there are some pre-disposed intelligence quotients at play, but any scout will tell you you can't teach a player what was given to him by "god" but you can certainly improve his hockey ability and IQ.

This is why players with alot of talent and poor strength and size fall a long ways in drafts and players who may not have as much skill but are blessed with natural size and strength tend to go higher. But, obviously it only goes so far. I contend that players like Tochkin are just too weak to ever play a regular shift in the NHL, just like another former Everett Silvertip, Zach Hamill. The guy was an 8th overall pick but he's too damn weak to play in the NHL. terrible pick by the Bruins!


You're not suggesting anything about the Silvertips are you? Posted Image
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#23 RBork77

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 08:10 PM

You're not suggesting anything about the Silvertips are you? Posted Image



haha, I will say one thing, The Silvertips have had two of the best junior hockey coaches in the CHL (Constantine and Hartsburg) since their inception. And if you compare Portland (They've sucked for a number of years) and Everett and the players they use, Everett goes with the players that have the most skill and Portland usually signs these 6'5 monsters who need alot of development. The result is that Portland usually isn't as good of a team, but they tend to put more players in the NHL (Brandon Dubinsky, Cody Mcleod, Paul Gaustad, Braydon Coburn, Brendan Mikkelson, Jannik Hansen-thought I'd throw him in there), anyway the point is Portland has always been good for development because they tend to stock up with kids that are oversized and need to develop skills, more than the Tochkin-types who are already skilled and will never be capable of competing against bigger NHL players.

But Everett's Junior record speaks for itself!!
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#24 Bourdon_28

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 10:54 PM

Surprised there isn't a topic dedicated solely to Kellan.

Quietly he is putting together a very good season on a very good Everett team.

Through 71 games he has 27 goals (up from 20 last year) and 67 points (4 back from last years totals).

He has however shown more willingness to compete shift in and shift out. He is a +23 and has 64 penalty minutes, which to me shows he is getting more involved.

Its nice to see he is grabbing the bull by the horns in terms of getting involved at both ends, and is shooting and scoring more often, and is also getting time on the PK.



Definately a good addition to a previously shallow prospect pool.

A long playoff run is likely in the cards, as Everett is a solid team.


Not sure where you got these numbers from...according to hocekydb he had 20 goals last year Posted Image
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#25 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 12:56 AM

It'd be interesting to see what sort of numbers he'd have put up had Schroeder joined Everett this past season. I heard Tochkin's skating needed work but had good hockey sense, which Gillis likes in his players. If he can improve his skating and strength he could be a solid depth guy and a decent player for the Moose. I'm sure the Canucks strength and conditioning program will help him a lot in those areas.

The ability to read plays and anticipate what is going to happen could be a huge factor for any player to have success, 'cos the game is so fast, so a lot of guys just don't have the time to think out there. I also think that maybe that ability, or "hockey sense/IQ" as we like to call it, is linked to a person's own "general" intelligence, which most likely is linked to genetics. Sort of like "natural ability" or "talent" as we know it. Training and lots of video-based instruction and analysis does help, but the potential to develop that hockey sense has to be there in the first place too, I think. However, this is getting into complicated territory, so I won't delve any further since I'm not that familiar with this topic . Posted Image Interesting discussion though.

Edited by Canvoucer Vanuck, 17 March 2010 - 12:57 AM.

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#26 avelanch

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 06:20 AM

Not sure where you got these numbers from...according to hocekydb he had 20 goals last year Posted Image

you DO know that you just highlighted the number 20, right? he said "up FROM 20 last year" meaning he had 20 last year and this year is higher.
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#27 RBork77

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 05:14 PM

It'd be interesting to see what sort of numbers he'd have put up had Schroeder joined Everett this past season. I heard Tochkin's skating needed work but had good hockey sense, which Gillis likes in his players. If he can improve his skating and strength he could be a solid depth guy and a decent player for the Moose. I'm sure the Canucks strength and conditioning program will help him a lot in those areas.

The ability to read plays and anticipate what is going to happen could be a huge factor for any player to have success, 'cos the game is so fast, so a lot of guys just don't have the time to think out there. I also think that maybe that ability, or "hockey sense/IQ" as we like to call it, is linked to a person's own "general" intelligence, which most likely is linked to genetics. Sort of like "natural ability" or "talent" as we know it. Training and lots of video-based instruction and analysis does help, but the potential to develop that hockey sense has to be there in the first place too, I think. However, this is getting into complicated territory, so I won't delve any further since I'm not that familiar with this topic . Posted Image Interesting discussion though.



yea, it's fun to discuss. I wish I thought Tochkin was a diamond in the rough, but from what I've seen of him (which is alot), he'll have to get ALOT stronger to ever have a shot at the NHL. At least the kid knows what his weaknesses are and how to improve. Get your Oompa Loompa a$$ to the weight room Tochkin, and take some high-powered supplements while you're at it! Posted Image
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#28 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 10:13 PM

yea, it's fun to discuss. I wish I thought Tochkin was a diamond in the rough, but from what I've seen of him (which is alot), he'll have to get ALOT stronger to ever have a shot at the NHL. At least the kid knows what his weaknesses are and how to improve. Get your Oompa Loompa a$ to the weight room Tochkin, and take some high-powered supplements while you're at it! Posted Image


Posted Image

So what do you think of Tochkin? His skills, strengths and weaknesses? It's nice to get a first-hand account of what a player's like, especially since we in Vancouver don't get to see them much or at all.

Do you regularly follow the Silvertips then? I'm assuming you do, and in that case can you also tell us what Ellington is like? Skating, decision-making, passing, puckhandling, mental toughness and reliability, etc.? Again, I don't think many people have seen much of this kid, and with him being a 2nd-round pick D-man it'd be nice to know what he can do and how he projects as well. Our current prospect depth on the blueline is not too great right now, lacking a real blue-chip prospect back there on defense.
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#29 RBork77

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 10:45 PM

Posted Image

So what do you think of Tochkin? His skills, strengths and weaknesses? It's nice to get a first-hand account of what a player's like, especially since we in Vancouver don't get to see them much or at all.

Do you regularly follow the Silvertips then? I'm assuming you do, and in that case can you also tell us what Ellington is like? Skating, decision-making, passing, puckhandling, mental toughness and reliability, etc.? Again, I don't think many people have seen much of this kid, and with him being a 2nd-round pick D-man it'd be nice to know what he can do and how he projects as well. Our current prospect depth on the blueline is not too great right now, lacking a real blue-chip prospect back there on defense.


I go to 15 or so games a year.

Tochkin has very good vision and playmaking ability at the Major-Junior level and seems to be very smart. His skating is average, or below, for even a junior, and he's one of the smaller and weaker players on the ice. That's about all I've got for observations of Tochkin.

Ellington was one of the most physically dominant players on the ice, an above average skater in Junior and as strong as an oxe. He wasn't very offensively talented (as you can probably tell by his statistics), he'd get nervous hands and make ill-advised plays with the puck. He should fight and hit more if he ever hopes to make it to the show. He plays sort of a laid back style and with his lack of talent he won't go far playing that style.

The Silvertip who is the one to watch, going forward, is Ryan Murray; a 16-year-old defenseman who skates like Niedermayer and is poised and skilled with the puck and will hit and drop the mitts at the right times. He's my favorite yet.

Good coaching makes all the difference in the world. Last season was a throw away with BEcanic behind the bench. Hartsburg has got the kids playing a solid and responsible style of game, should be good for Tochkin's transition to the pro game...lucky for him!
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#30 Ziostilon

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:05 AM

so what happens to him now. since the Silvertips have been eliminated

Continue on workouts... assign him to practice with the Moose maybe. like what they did with Oberg last season
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