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Mason Raymond...how much to re-sign?


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#61 quoi

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:44 PM

If we are going to re-sign him, I'd hope it was at no more than 2.5 per season. I can however see management trading him then hoping Grabner can step up some to fill in on the second line as they are a relatively similar skill set for a much cheaper price.

#62 FeStealth

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:37 PM

I'm hoping that some crazy GM will throw a 5mil+/year offer-sheet to Raymond, lol.
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#63 timmyhunter

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:47 PM

4 years, 13 million.

2.5
3.0
3.5
4.0

He's a RFA, so worst case scenario is that we get a couple 1st rounders in return for him. (offer sheet)


We cannot lose Raymond no way no how. Pay him up to 3 if we have to. I love this kid. He has awesome speed and great talent. He gets better every year and has shown he can score as well as play some on the PP and PK. I also love the fact that the kid always competes and plays hard. Even if he doesn't contribute on the scoresheet the kid brings it and battles every night. I'm telling you we cannot lose this kid.

#64 JK86

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:05 PM

I don't see how he could get more than 2.5 a season. I would say 2.5 would be a maximum salary for him, how could he justify asking for more than Sammy? I could see him getting a 2 or 3 year deal at 2 million per season.

#65 Duodenum

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:42 PM

I don't see how he could get more than 2.5 a season. I would say 2.5 would be a maximum salary for him, how could he justify asking for more than Sammy? I could see him getting a 2 or 3 year deal at 2 million per season.

Sammy signed his contract after 2 straight 40 point seasons...Mason Raymond had 53...pretty easy justification there.
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#66 alexandre the great

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 03:03 AM

I don't see how he could get more than 2.5 a season. I would say 2.5 would be a maximum salary for him, how could he justify asking for more than Sammy? I could see him getting a 2 or 3 year deal at 2 million per season.

Don't forget Burr is only making 2 mill. And he had 35g 32a=67pts. Imo no way he should get more than 2.25-2.5.
I wouldn't be surprised if MG traded him for a young stud defenseman. I really like Raymond, but we must fill the hole on D that Willie is going to leave. If not Raymond than MG is going to have to part with some good young prospects to fill that need.

Edited by alexandre the great, 03 May 2010 - 03:08 AM.

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#67 darkpoet

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 03:39 AM

Some of you fcking doorknobs need to realise Raymond plays for the Canucks, not the Florida Panthers.

3+MILL ? are you serious?!

This team has more depth now than it has had in 30 years and you wanna pay a guy who just followed up a pair of 20 point seasons with one good year - that kind of money... on THIS team?

You're fcken crazy... with guys like Schroeder and Hodgson waiting on the sidelines.... I like Mase but... Posted Image

#68 VancouverWhales

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 04:57 AM

I think 2.5 for two years is very fair for him.

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He's only played for the Canucks for 2.5 years on the Canucks. Given his track record, he has really just proven himself for one season. No doubt, the guy has potential, but to sign him to 3m+ seems too early.

He had 3 points in the playoff last season.

2 years for him to develop and sign a big contract may not be a bad thing for him. I believe that his agent will approve of this deal.

#69 babych

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:32 AM

Some of you fcking doorknobs need to realise Raymond plays for the Canucks, not the Florida Panthers.

3+MILL ? are you serious?!

This team has more depth now than it has had in 30 years and you wanna pay a guy who just followed up a pair of 20 point seasons with one good year - that kind of money... on THIS team?

You're fcken crazy... with guys like Schroeder and Hodgson waiting on the sidelines.... I like Mase but... Posted Image

Agreed.
QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#70 D-Money

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:29 PM

3+MILL ? are you serious?!

This team has more depth now than it has had in 30 years and you wanna pay a guy who just followed up a pair of 20 point seasons with one good year - that kind of money... on THIS team?

Too true. I have high hopes for Raymond, but anything over 2.75 per will be difficult to swallow. Even with his good year, he hasn't been able to stay in our top 6 consistently with the depth we have. And with Grabner, Hodgson, Schroeder, and even Shirokov all competing for ice time, and a big hole on defense, we may be better off packaging up Raymond for a young stud defenseman.

I already said this in another thread, but I think a perfect storm of events may be brewing with us and St. Louis, which could lead to a Corey Schneider + Mason Ramond -for- Eric Johnson trade:

- Our depth at forward, with St Louis' need for proven offensive forwards
- John Davidson's desire for Schneider, with us having Luongo locked up
- St. Louis' plethora of young D (including HF's #1 rated prospect, Pietrangelo), and our desperate need for one
- Eric Johnson's looming RFA status, and the team's seeming inability to get a deal done suggest that the Blues are not certain that he is one of their cornerstone pieces.

I think this would be a great deal for both sides. Failing that, moving Raymond for one of Nashville's young D prospects (i.e. Cody Franson) may work out as well.
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#71 Nedved

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 01:25 PM

2.25-2.75 mil, if he plays really well in playoff, he ll get 3 mil.

I ll be back !!!

#72 Millerdraft

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 01:38 PM

Some of you fcking doorknobs need to realise Raymond plays for the Canucks, not the Florida Panthers.

3+MILL ? are you serious?!

This team has more depth now than it has had in 30 years and you wanna pay a guy who just followed up a pair of 20 point seasons with one good year - that kind of money... on THIS team?

You're fcken crazy... with guys like Schroeder and Hodgson waiting on the sidelines.... I like Mase but... Posted Image


Not to mention Grabner, Shirokov & Rodin.

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#73 Canuckslave

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 01:53 PM

Nothing over 2.5 million.

Hopefully he signs at around 2.25. When this guy gets his confidence going (right now) he looks great, but when he's not rolling, it's really frustrating to watch him.

Also, he's a RFA, not a UFA, so the Canucks have a bit of an upper hand.

I wouldn't mind if somebody gave him an offersheet and we got a 1st and a 3rd, because we're missing a 2nd and a 3rd in next year's draft.


I think a lot of us have overlooked past arbitration cases. JP Dumont won his case and was awarded 2.9 after he scored 40 Pts in 54 games. Jiri Hudler was awarded 5.75 for 2 yrs after a 57 pts season (tho he signed in Rus).

In other similar situations:

Antoine Vermette signed with Ott at an avg of 2.76 after setting similar career high as Raymond's.

Loui Eriksson is going to have a cap hit of 4.27 next year.

What I want to point out is Raymond is definitely in the same class and I believe he is going for no less than 3mil per season.

#74 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:00 PM

Just like other posters have already stated... 2.5 mil would be a fair offer for him.

But if he needs 3-3.5 to reamin a Canuck, give it to him. He improves every year and now is not the time to let him go.

His effort against Sopel in setting up the Ehrhoff goal is a clear indication that this guy wants to be a successful player in the NHL. He has the skillset, and we see him strengthen his weak points a little bit each offseason.

Luckily, Gillis knows this [speculation, how couldn't he?], and we'll see him in the lineup next year.

I think a 3 year deal at anything more than 7.5 mil is kind of a slap in the face to Sammy, get him locked down maybe for 2 years at 2.5 mil per or 5 yrs at 15 if we want to go big. I think other factors such as where we can ply a good defender from and whether anyone throws and offer sheet at Raymond will determine what we want to do.

Edited by robbreit, 03 May 2010 - 02:22 PM.

"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#75 Amish Rake Fighter

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:00 PM

Not to mention Grabner, Shirokov & Rodin.




I doubt Shirokov will ever play for the Canucks again, he'd be with the practice roster right now if he was in the plans for the future.





#76 George_Costanza

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:07 PM

Not sure why so many people have a crush on Raymond. I'd give him 2 mill TOPS or let him walk/get traded. He is nothing special.
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#77 Canufu

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:08 PM

The Raymond situation is a sticky one. I am interested to see what MG does with this kid.

On the one hand, he seems to have a lot of potential and have shown his ability to play in a top six role on an elite team. On the other hand, he has only had one successful year and have not shown he can perform consistently.

With our forward prospect depth, I cannot see MG signing Raymond to a long term contract. I see the contract being 1 to 2 years in length, and no more than 3. I would like to see a 2 year deal worth 4.5 to 5 mil. For those of you wanting a long term deal for this kid, have we learned nothing from the bad deals given to unproven kids all over the league? (case in point, Dustin Penner) And FYI, for a player in Raymond's situation, a long term deal would not reduce his salary as he is still improving, a long term deal would increase his cap hit for the next few years as it would most likely be back-end loaded.

#78 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:11 PM

Don't get me wrong, I really do like Raymond. I just don't want to overpay, that's all.

As for the Quotes, I dunno, I just type at the top out of habit.

Ha ha, it makes more sense if you read what's being responding to before you read the response.

"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#79 Boudrias

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

Too true. I have high hopes for Raymond, but anything over 2.75 per will be difficult to swallow. Even with his good year, he hasn't been able to stay in our top 6 consistently with the depth we have. And with Grabner, Hodgson, Schroeder, and even Shirokov all competing for ice time, and a big hole on defense, we may be better off packaging up Raymond for a young stud defenseman.

I already said this in another thread, but I think a perfect storm of events may be brewing with us and St. Louis, which could lead to a Corey Schneider + Mason Ramond -for- Eric Johnson trade:

- Our depth at forward, with St Louis' need for proven offensive forwards
- John Davidson's desire for Schneider, with us having Luongo locked up
- St. Louis' plethora of young D (including HF's #1 rated prospect, Pietrangelo), and our desperate need for one
- Eric Johnson's looming RFA status, and the team's seeming inability to get a deal done suggest that the Blues are not certain that he is one of their cornerstone pieces.

I think this would be a great deal for both sides. Failing that, moving Raymond for one of Nashville's young D prospects (i.e. Cody Franson) may work out as well.

I doubt MG will move Raymond for Eric Johnson who has an attitude problem. As much as I like the kid anyone is moveable if the return is good enough. It has to be a sweet deal or MG exercises his option and then deals him next year after he scores 35 goals. :blink: I mean isn't that how it works on this site?

#80 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

I go 8 mil for three years. Cap hit 2.67mil . I think its fair and he will be in his prime where he can cash in then.

We need to re sign him before the offer sheets. Teams can offer 3 mil a year and its only a second round pick.

And there will be offer sheets.

That sounds reasonable, some teams will definitely being willing to part with only a second round player for his services at 3 mil per. Once it is over that mark we get a 1st and 3rd rounder as compensation which would not be too harmful to us in the long run. I think this is the best idea yet.

"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#81 Sultan of Sarcasm

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

Let me first make it clear that I am a big fan of Mason Raymond, and have been for a couple of years. I'm glad his hands and head have caught up to his feet. With that said...

If he isn't going to take a 2 year $4.5M-$5M contract, MG should trade him. It's only going to take a couple of years for a few of our young guys to catch up to Mason and make his place on this team redundant. He's a great player with some terrific upside to him, but his place on this team is threatened by other players of equal skill that are coming up through the system. I still think we need him here for the next two years, but beyond that he won't be as useful as he is now.

I suggest we trade him rather than let him sign with another team. I realize that we would get some picks back for him if he does sign, but that won't solve the issue of needing his skillset (or a similar skillset) in the next couple of years.

With all that said, I think it's likely he will sign a 2 year deal for $4.75M and then he will sign with another team after that.

Sultan, you are my hero.


#82 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:16 PM

Dubinsky (NYR) and Stafford (BUF) went to arbitration as RFAs last season. Both re-signed for under 2M for 2 years. Similar? Maybe slightly higher.
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#83 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:18 PM

I'm hoping that some crazy GM will throw a 5mil+/year offer-sheet to Raymond, lol.

C'mon Bobby Clarke or Glen Sather or good ole Burkie!

"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#84 Village

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:18 PM

2yr @ 2.5m/yr(ish) without a NMC/NTC. This way his contract is up the same time as Samuelsson. We can then choose to lock up one or the other (unlikely we can afford both) and by then some of our younger talent should be getting ready to slide in and take over roles for cheap. He's also viable trade bait if he takes a step back, some up and comer outplays him or we have a gap on defense that we need to fill.

Edited by Village, 03 May 2010 - 02:18 PM.


#85 TheWheeler

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:35 PM

Along the lines others have stated, anything over 2.5mil is too much. This is NOT the Islanders/Panthers where our players can afford to have inflated contracts. Vancouver is a team that has to play it so close to the cap its not even funny.

With that said, if he stays, 2 years at 2.5 I am ok with. I would RATHER it be at 2mil. Heck, I would RATHER him be traded for a good/young D-man.
We have prospects chomping at the bit to take over Raymonds spot. And most of them have had equal, or more illustrious, jr careers than Raymond did.

- Hodgson
- Schroeder
- Grabner
- Shirokov
- Rai
- Rodin
- I guess even Tochkin

In a couple of years Raymond's role could most likely be taken by any one of those above players.

Right now, I just hope he scores some more goals in these playoffs to boost his trade value. A talented/large/young D-man will be far more valuable to this team than Raymond will be.

#86 Canufu

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:47 PM

Along the lines others have stated, anything over 2.5mil is too much. This is NOT the Islanders/Panthers where our players can afford to have inflated contracts. Vancouver is a team that has to play it so close to the cap its not even funny.

With that said, if he stays, 2 years at 2.5 I am ok with. I would RATHER it be at 2mil. Heck, I would RATHER him be traded for a good/young D-man.
We have prospects chomping at the bit to take over Raymonds spot. And most of them have had equal, or more illustrious, jr careers than Raymond did.

- Hodgson
- Schroeder
- Grabner
- Shirokov
- Rai
- Rodin
- I guess even Tochkin

In a couple of years Raymond's role could most likely be taken by any one of those above players.

Right now, I just hope he scores some more goals in these playoffs to boost his trade value. A talented/large/young D-man will be far more valuable to this team than Raymond will be.


It is doubtful that Shirokov would still be with the organization next year... But I agree with you on our need for a Defensive prospect.

#87 BeExcited

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:49 PM

Along the lines others have stated, anything over 2.5mil is too much. This is NOT the Islanders/Panthers where our players can afford to have inflated contracts. Vancouver is a team that has to play it so close to the cap its not even funny.

With that said, if he stays, 2 years at 2.5 I am ok with. I would RATHER it be at 2mil. Heck, I would RATHER him be traded for a good/young D-man.
We have prospects chomping at the bit to take over Raymonds spot. And most of them have had equal, or more illustrious, jr careers than Raymond did.

- Hodgson
- Schroeder
- Grabner
- Shirokov
- Rai
- Rodin
- I guess even Tochkin

In a couple of years Raymond's role could most likely be taken by any one of those above players.

Right now, I just hope he scores some more goals in these playoffs to boost his trade value. A talented/large/young D-man will be far more valuable to this team than Raymond will be.


Grabner is definitely cut from the same cloth as Raymond and given a year or two will probably be able to fill his role should he decide not to sign here. For the time being I'm pretty sure MG will find a way to keep him here for at least the short term. Hodgson and Schroeder are defintely the future of this franchise but Hodgson is a center so i dont think Raymond should be threatened by him moving up the ranks.

#88 TheWheeler

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 03:00 PM

It is doubtful that Shirokov would still be with the organization next year... But I agree with you on our need for a Defensive prospect.


I was curious about Shirokov's future as well. But this made me feel pretty good about him:

http://www.moosehock...senews/407/1793

I think he gets overlooked ALOT because he had a terrible first couple games this year, and didn't really light it up on the Moose. I'm definitely willing to give him another shot next year, or another year of improvement on the Moose. But the guy has skill, can't deny that.

#89 Peter Gunn

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 03:02 PM

2.75 MIL 3 YEAR!!!

#90 Sultan of Sarcasm

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 03:15 PM

2.75 MIL 3 YEAR!!!


I'm not trying to attack, but I'm curious, what makes you say that? How is he worth more money than Mikael? And why 3 years?

Sultan, you are my hero.





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