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Poll: Breast feeding in public (186 member(s) have cast votes)

Should women be allowed to breast feed in public?

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#241 Wetcoaster

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:45 PM

Yes, somehow gay rights are the same thing as having women consider those around them while breast feeding. Women ask that others consider their baby's needs, while they ignore the concerns and considerations of others. This isn't discrimination at all.

Awesome.



F@cking leftarded morons.

Yes they are the same - protected under the BC Human Rights Code.

And yes it is awesome.
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#242 JAH

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:45 PM

Everything is a f@cking right these days, eh?

Just out of curiosity, is it babies that are eating or a mommy's booby that you find so offensive?
'It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.' - Muhammad Ali

#243 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:46 PM

No, I'm not a parent, but I do understand something called, "common sense".

Ok, perhaps some family rooms are a bit messy, but there could be solutions around that. More frequent cleaning, and maybe having a specific room built for the sole purpose of breastfeeding. Key, lock, special access and all.

For the changing room part, when I'm at the mall, I might see a grand total of like 5-15 mothers with children who are still in breastfeeding age, so I don't see where you get the idea of not having enough stalls for everyone. Heck, there are like at least 30+ changing rooms at the Bays, Sears, Zellers, etc. So unless there's a babies convention at the mall or just so happened that 200 breastfeeding mothers are at the mall who needs to all feed their child at the same time, I still don't see any issue.
It's not anything extreme, just simple logistics.


I have a better idea. Seeing as you are in the minority, it would be easier to construct rooms where people offended by breastfeeding can seek refuge from harmful exposure. If you see a breast in public just scream out "I need an adult!" and someone will escort you to sanctuary while you cover your eyes in disgust. Or you could just look the other way, your choice. This idea is no more riduculous than yours but ridiculous just the same.
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#244 ronthecivil

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:51 PM

Why would you think rights are equal?

They are not and sometimes they even conflict. A good example is The Civil Marriage Act in which same sex civil marriage (and not just something like marriage) was found to be necessary in order to confer equality upon gay and lesbian couples. However this runs up against the freedom of religion and those faiths that do not believe in same sex marriage. The solution was to recognize that civilly same sex marriages were lawful but to give religions a choice as to whether to marry same sex couples.

Marriage certain aspects of capacity

2. Marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others.

Religious officials

3. It is recognized that officials of religious groups are free to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs.


Sometimes rights must be limited as the Charter notes:

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.


We had the advantage of seeing how the US law tied itself in knots over the Bakke case and affirmative action in that country so we went a different direction under the Charter in repspect of equality rights.

The Abella Report - a 1984 publication entitled Equality in Employment: A Royal Commission Report under the direction of Commissioner Judge Rosalie Abella was adopted by Parliament and used for the first Employment Equity laws. It was quite clear this was not to be be US style affirmative action as Commissioner Abella noted:

Equality under the Charter, then, is a right to integrate into the mainstream of Canadian society based on, and notwithstanding, differences. It is acknowledging and accommodating differences rather than ignoring or denying them. This is the paradox at the core of any quest for employment equity: because differences exist and must be respected, equality in the workplace does not, and cannot be allowed to, mean the same treatment for all. In recognition of the journey many have yet to complete before they achieve equality, and in recognition of how the duration of the journey has been and is being unfairly protracted by arbitrary barriers, section 15(2) permits laws, programs, or activities designed to eliminate these restraints.


Women who are nursing children are not "unintentionally exposing themselves" - they are exercising a legal right. If you are asking woman to cover up while nursing or to go somewhere else that is not a reasonable request, it is discrimination. And no you cannot ask.



I know there not! I just think they should be! I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I understand how and why things are, and they have a point. I just don't think that long term it's a good way of doing things in the long term.

It's impossible to know how much exposure a nursing women intends to be displaying since it's illegal to ask. The wardrobe malfuction may indeed be intentional, but you don't get to know.

The law thinks that even putting a women in a position to say "the wardrobe malfunction is intentional" is over the line. Doesn't really say much about the ability of a women to stand up for herself. Kind of a 1950's looking out for the little lady way of thinking for me.

#245 JAH

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:52 PM

I the topless thing I fact? Or is it in certain locations u can be topless. I guess it should be a courtesy thing. For example when I'm around children I'm mindful of swearing and inappropriate gestures. I just think that other people should be mindful of things too not everyone is ok with breast feeding. Myself I could careless but I do know that there are people who care about it. I just like to argue :)

Not everyone is ok with gay people, but no one is suggesting they hide their 'gayness'.

Not everyone is ok with black people, but no one is suggesting they walk around with white makeup on.

It may not be readily apparent to you, but generally speaking, rights are enshrined in law almost exclusively where there is some oppostion to it. For instance, if we had no history of gender discrimination, there would be no impetus to have that enshrined in law, no one would care. It is only when there is significant and somewhat widespread violation of what SHOULD be a right do we start to address it, and end up with it enshrined in law. As an example, we don't have 'hair colour' enshrined in law as there is no significant discrimination based on hair colour.

When a new right is enshrined in law, there is ALWAYS going to be opposition to it, otherwise there would be no point in forcing people to treat that group fairly if they already were.
'It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.' - Muhammad Ali

#246 McMillan

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:54 PM

Ok, so you say you have common sense, so please try and answer these questions:

1- Why are you allowed to eat in say, a restaurant, but a baby cannot eat there?

2- Why would you consider it an unreasonable request for someone to ask you to eat in the toilet but you think it's totally ok to ask a baby to?

3- Why is the naked breast of a new mother so offensive to you that you feel it should be banished from public view? Do you feel that way about all female breasts, or just one's with a newborn baby attached?


I'm going to go ahead and answer your questions.

1. Not saying the baby can't would just like some discretion used for the comfort of the other patrons.

2. I don't think they should feed in a bathroom or even a different room just using a suitable amount of coverage, blanket if the child will use it or just not lifting your shirt up beyond what's necessary.

3. Why is it offensive? It's not offensive, it's just inappropriate in public. Sure the law says it's fine but the law doesn't need to take in account for common courtesy. I don't have to get out of my seat for an elderly or disable person but I do. Why? It's just common courtesy the same courtesy that I'd like when a mother is feeding her child. Why does it have to be an issue? I'm sure there's lots of things other people do that are perfectly legal that make you uncomfortable. Does that mean that you shouldn't be allowed to ask them to stop doing it or maybe find another way to accomplish it in which makes it more comfortable for you?

Honestly, the complete and utter lack of any courtesy to the people who find it uncomfortable from you is utterly ridiculous. You act as if you're being told to feed formula and hang your head in shame for you're disgusting acts.

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#247 Glen Carrig

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:56 PM

Anyone care to sum up this thread in one post for me?
Thou broad, great, living sea;
Great in thy boundless spread;
With many tongues thy voices speak to me,
With voices from the dead.
-William Hope Hodgson

#248 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

Just out of curiosity, is it babies that are eating or a mommy's booby that you find so offensive?


Once again, I have absolutely no problem with it. But I can understand if people might be uncomfortable with it, so really how hard would it be for mothers to be a little more discrete with it in public?

This is completely rational. I'm not arguing for my own interests, rather I'm arguing for what's common sense.
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#249 Jaimito

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:58 PM

more breasts the better. if you don't like it, look away. H. sapiens are mammals, it's our way of life.
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#250 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:59 PM

Everything is a f@cking right these days, eh?


Throw out courtesy and respect for others out the window!



I know we should just get rid of all those stupid rights and just have a free for all. Stupid people and their stupid rights. They're driving us 'right' up the wall...eh?

God-Damn hippies! Right Nitronuts!?

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/snark

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#251 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:59 PM

Anyone care to sum up this thread in one post for me?


Leftards think everything is a human right, and that while a mother's and baby's needs must be acknowledged the concerns of others while in a public space don't need to be.

Awesome mentality, eh?
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#252 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:01 PM

I know we should just get rid of all those stupid rights and just have a free for all. Stupid people and their stupid rights. They're driving us 'right' up the wall...eh?

God-Damn hippies! Right Nitronuts!?


/snark



How is public courtesy a violation of human rights? This isn't an argument about discrimination or human rights, it's about one of respect for others.
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#253 TigerWilliams

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:02 PM

Anyone care to sum up this thread in one post for me?


internet slap fight between holier than thou pseudo-intellectuals and people who dislike mammal biology.

no one wins, we all are stupider for reading it.
"Met him in 1966. Forceful personality. Didn't care if people liked him. Uncompromising. Admired that. Of us all, he understood most. About world. About people. About society and what's happening to it. Things everyone knows in gut. Things everyone too scared to face, too polite to talk about. He understood. Understood man's capacity for horrors and never quit. Saw the world's black underbelly and never surrendered. Once a man has seen, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend it doesn't exist. No matter who orders him to look the other way."


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#254 Sultan of Sarcasm

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:03 PM

Anyone care to sum up this thread in one post for me?


I'll give it a crack here bud.

Should nursing mothers be allowed to nurse wherever they feel like it without covering up?

WHAT!? BOOBIEZZZZ!11! HELL YES BROZKI!

I believe it's terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to mankind for a woman to expose herself like this. She should go to a filthy bathroom stall like a civilized being.

I have no real problem with it, but a woman should know that she's going to get leered at. Why would she want to put herself in that position?

It's just a nipple guys. It's natural. Grow up.

I'm concerned with the state of humanity. Why aren't we all naked all the time.

This thread is a car wreck and I can't look away. People are ridiculous.

Why doesn't the lady just show a little courtesy and cover up a bit?

...to be continued, seemingly for the next several weeks.

EDIT: Tiger said it better, and faster.

Edited by NorthernCanuckFan, 11 August 2010 - 03:05 PM.

Sultan, you are my hero.


#255 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:03 PM

I'm going to go ahead and answer your questions.

1. Not saying the baby can't would just like some discretion used for the comfort of the other patrons.

2. I don't think they should feed in a bathroom or even a different room just using a suitable amount of coverage, blanket if the child will use it or just not lifting your shirt up beyond what's necessary.

3. Why is it offensive? It's not offensive, it's just inappropriate in public. Sure the law says it's fine but the law doesn't need to take in account for common courtesy. I don't have to get out of my seat for an elderly or disable person but I do. Why? It's just common courtesy the same courtesy that I'd like when a mother is feeding her child. Why does it have to be an issue? I'm sure there's lots of things other people do that are perfectly legal that make you uncomfortable. Does that mean that you shouldn't be allowed to ask them to stop doing it or maybe find another way to accomplish it in which makes it more comfortable for you?

Honestly, the complete and utter lack of any courtesy to the people who find it uncomfortable from you is utterly ridiculous. You act as if you're being told to feed formula and hang your head in shame for you're disgusting acts.




Nicely said. I couldn't agree more.




:HYPNOTOAD:
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#256 Jaimito

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:04 PM

Leftards think everything is a human right, and that while a mother's and baby's needs must be acknowledged the concerns of others while in a public space don't need to be.

Awesome mentality, eh?


concern? what concern? just look away, no one is asking you to stare at the boobs. it's public space, and feeding is human function that is not private. Some people eat like pigs, and that's offensive to me, but it's not illegal. what if I find you offensive while you eat just because I do? What about my rights? aren't you concerned you are offensive when you are eating in public?

it's much easier if you don't only view breasts as sexual organs. there's nothing sexual about breast feeding.

Edited by Jaimito, 11 August 2010 - 03:06 PM.

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#257 Shift-4

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:05 PM

What the heck is the big deal?

Most covers of Cosmo show more boob than a breastfeeding mother.
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#258 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:06 PM

I'll give it a crack here bud.

Should nursing mothers be allowed to nurse wherever they feel like it without covering up?

WHAT!? BOOBIEZZZZ!11! HELL YES BROZKI!

I believe it's terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to mankind for a woman to expose herself like this. She should go to a filthy bathroom stall like a civilized being.

I have no real problem with it, but a woman should know that she's going to get leered at. Why would she want to put herself in that position?

It's just a nipple guys. It's natural. Grop up.

I'm concerned with the state of humanity. Why aren't we all naked all the time.

This thread is a car wreck and I can't look away. People are ridiculous.

Why doesn't the lady just show a little courtesy and cover up a bit?

...to be continued, seemingly for the next several weeks.

EDIT: Tiger said it better, and faster.



Bingo. Is public courtesy really that difficult of a concept to grasp?
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#259 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:05 PM

Anyone care to sum up this thread in one post for me?



Titilating!

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#260 Glen Carrig

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:07 PM

Sounds about right, what I got out of it was:
"women should be discreet"
"the law says they don't have to"
"well they should still be discreet"
"they don't have to"
"they still should"
"no they shouldn't"
"uh-huh"
"nu-uh"
...
Thou broad, great, living sea;
Great in thy boundless spread;
With many tongues thy voices speak to me,
With voices from the dead.
-William Hope Hodgson

#261 Sultan of Sarcasm

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:08 PM

Sounds about right, what I got out of it was:
"women should be discreet"
"the law says they don't have to"
"well they should still be discreet"
"they don't have to"
"they still should"
"no they shouldn't"
"uh-huh"
"nu-uh"
...


Think God Thread with a few words replaced.

Yep, you got it.

Sultan, you are my hero.


#262 JAH

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:09 PM

I'm going to go ahead and answer your questions.

1. Not saying the baby can't would just like some discretion used for the comfort of the other patrons.


But it is her right to feed in public. She may choose to cover up based on her own modesty, creepy dudes checking her out, etc., but she doesn't have to. You may like some discretion, but you aren't entitled to it. And because this issue touches on rights covered under the HRC, even asking is out of the question.

2. I don't think they should feed in a bathroom or even a different room just using a suitable amount of coverage, blanket if the child will use it or just not lifting your shirt up beyond what's necessary.


But if that wasn't possible, you're cool with that? Let's say she's at the beach and wearing a bikini, or the baby doesn't like the blanket cover thing, you're good?

3. Why is it offensive? It's not offensive, it's just inappropriate in public.


Why is it inappropriate?

Sure the law says it's fine but the law doesn't need to take in account for common courtesy. I don't have to get out of my seat for an elderly or disable person but I do.


Your example is not a relavant comparison. There is a very, very good reason why you would give up your seat for an elderly (or maybe pregnant woman?) - they are less physically capable of standing for long periods. However, there is no practical or reasonable excuse for you to ask her to cover up. Any discomfort you may feel is based on your own preconceptions, prejudices, and outdated social conditioning. But even that is moot - except where otherwise posted, the elderly have no more right to seating than you do, but the mother's right to breastfeed is a legal and enforceable right.
'It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.' - Muhammad Ali

#263 Glen Carrig

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:09 PM

Think God Thread with a few words replaced.

Yep, you got it.

I have yet to be called the Devil in this thread.
Thou broad, great, living sea;
Great in thy boundless spread;
With many tongues thy voices speak to me,
With voices from the dead.
-William Hope Hodgson

#264 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:11 PM

concern? what concern? just look away, no one is asking you to stare at the boobs. it's public space, and feeding is human function that is not private. Some people eat like pigs, and that's offensive to me, but it's not illegal. what if I find you offensive while you eat just because I do? What about my rights? aren't you concerned you are offensive when you are eating in public?

it's much easier if you don't view breasts are a sexual organ only. there's nothing sexual about breast feeding.


Actually since you're in a public space, you should also be acknowledging that there are others around you who may/may not be entirely comfortable with seeing what you're doing. This isn't exactly just eating as in food into mouth...


When you're on a train or a bus or a plane, would it be polite to talk loud? Absolutely not. Are you allowed to talk? Yes. So, talk in a voice that respects those around you.

Same goes with people who eat like pigs in public.



This shouldn't even be a legality issue, it's a public courtesy issue and it most certainly isn't discriminatory nor should it be a human rights issue.

But hey, people like to throw the whole HR book at anything these days...

Edited by nitronuts, 11 August 2010 - 03:13 PM.

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#265 Sultan of Sarcasm

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:11 PM

I have yet to be called the Devil in this thread.


Oh LTF, you devil you. Wait, that doesn't count.

Do you like breasts? Do you approve of indecent exposure such as publicly feeding an infant?

DEVIL!!

What do we do now? Throw your weighted body in a pond and see if you float like a witch? Or skip ahead to the tar and feathering?

Sultan, you are my hero.


#266 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:16 PM

Anyone up for taking up all lanes of the freeway going the exact same speed? Yeah it's wrong but it's our right to pick any lane we want.

Edited by CanuckinEdm, 11 August 2010 - 03:17 PM.


#267 JAH

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:16 PM

I think we're arguing two different issues here.

Should mothers be cognizant that others may not be comfortable with their exposed breast while breastfeeding? Yes, obviously. Should they consider that when deciding to breastfeed, (even though they don't HAVE to)? In certain scenarios, sure. Is it ok to ask a new mom to stop breastfeeding in public? No, it is her right to breastfeed in public, and even the mere mention of a compromise is a violation of her rights.

The 'pro-breastfeeding' side is arguing rights, and the otherside is arguing common courtesies.

Edited by JAH, 11 August 2010 - 03:19 PM.

'It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.' - Muhammad Ali

#268 Jaimito

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:17 PM

Why is it inappropriate?

Your example is not a relavant comparison. There is a very, very good reason why you would give up your seat for an elderly (or maybe pregnant woman?) - they are less physically capable of standing for long periods. However, there is no practical or reasonable excuse for you to ask her to cover up. Any discomfort you may feel is based on your own preconceptions, prejudices, and outdated social conditioning. But even that is moot - except where otherwise posted, the elderly have no more right to seating than you do, but the mother's right to breastfeed is a legal and enforceable right.


BINGO. Guys are so conditioned to see boobs as sexual organs. All that cleavage conditioning since puberty. Once you stop thinking that way, it's so normal.
Heck, guys have nipples too, and they are disgusting. When I see a topless guy, I find them offensive, but I just look away. Unless the place you're at has dress code, it doesn't matter. That's why they call it a public place.

But there are dedicated places for it too. I think it's a good idea in that not all woman are comfortable feeding their child in public. Here's a pic I took in Tawian:
Posted Image
Posted Image

#269 nitronuts

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real logic and rational response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake.

In the US you call them unpatriotic.

In Canada (especially B.C.) you call them racist, a sexist, or a bigot, and then you throw the human rights book at them.
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#270 CanuckinEdm

CanuckinEdm

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:23 PM

BINGO. Guys are so conditioned to see boobs as sexual organs. All that cleavage conditioning since puberty. Once you stop thinking that way, it's so normal.
Heck, guys have nipples too, and they are disgusting. When I see a topless guy, I find them offensive, but I just look away. Unless the place you're at has dress code, it doesn't matter. That's why they call it a public place.

But there are dedicated places for it too. I think it's a good idea in that not all woman are comfortable feeding their child in public. Here's a pic I took in Tawian:
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See and everyone knows Asians are far more advanced then canadians and they get it. But I'll be back later I'm going #2 in the bathroom and leaving it in there cause it's might free right to leave floaties.




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