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Key Anti-Prostitution Laws Struck Down By Ontario Court


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#91 unknown33429

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

Well it seems to me that they either need to make it illegal (in which case one would think all the other prohibitions that pertain to an illegal industry would be constitutional) or make it legal and all the things that are currently illegal would be in the realm of local zoning laws and regulations much like any other service or business.

What else could they come back with that would keep it legal but somehow write in some new version of say the baudy house law that would someone not be unconstitutional?


I don't think prostitution is protected by charter. If prostitution is not illegal, then the bawdy house can be deemed unconstitutional, since it is putting women at risk.

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#92 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:18 PM

"Who the hell are you to tell me how to live?
You think I sell my body; I merely sell my time.
I ain't no Cinderella, I ain't waiting for no prince,
To save me in fact until just now I was doing just fine.
And on and on.."

"I know what degradation feels like
I felt it on the floor at the factory
Where I worked long before, I took control now I answer to me
The 50K I make this year will go anywhere I please
Where's the problem?"

Mike Burdett

Not everyone is dead inside. Many suffer immensely because of the sex trade.

Not everyone is there through choice. And some that choose regret it quickly but find themselves trapped.

And of course the ever present threats of addiction, violence, and disease.

Other than that no biggy!

#93 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

"Who the hell are you to tell me how to live?
You think I sell my body; I merely sell my time.
I ain't no Cinderella, I ain't waiting for no prince,
To save me in fact until just now I was doing just fine.
And on and on.."

"I know what degradation feels like
I felt it on the floor at the factory
Where I worked long before, I took control now I answer to me
The 50K I make this year will go anywhere I please
Where's the problem?"

Mike Burdett

Not everyone is dead inside. Many suffer immensely because of the sex trade.

Not everyone is there through choice. And some that choose regret it quickly but find themselves trapped.

And of course the ever present threats of addiction, violence, and disease.

Other than that no biggy!


Have you had a friend who was/ is a prostitute ?

I have , she chose to be one as a means to an end , and while i do not think it is a good career choice , i support a womans right to choose , what she does with her life and her body .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#94 PlayStation

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

http://www.ottawacit...6413/story.html

Catarina Migliorini is about to be $780,000 richer.

No, she didn't win some reality TV show nor did she create the next-big tech app, the 20-year-old physical education student from Brazil recently auctioned off her virginity in an online sale that lasted weeks, eventually selling her virtue to the highest bidder, a Japanese man under the username Natsu.

Migliorini, who has reportedly claimed she will donate an undisclosed portion of her "earnings" to a charity in her home state of Santa Catarina, defended her decision to sell her virginity by saying, “If you only do it once in your life then you are not a prostitute, just like if you take one amazing photograph it does not automatically make you a photographer," the Daily Mail reported. "The auction is just business, I'm a romantic girl at heart and believe in love. But this will make a big difference to my area."

Migliorini and Natsu will reportedly undergo testing for sexually transmitted diseases before they couple. The pair will reportedly be interviewed before and after the event, but Natsu’s identity will remain a secret, according to the New York Daily News.

Alex Stepanov, a male virgin who was also selling himself on the same website, reportedly fetched $3,000 from a woman in Brazil going by the name Nene B.


She aint even hot...

Edited by PlayStation, 25 October 2012 - 03:37 PM.

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"Real Men" :bigblush:

#95 Five For Fighting

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

If marriage is legal so should prostitution. God knows I pay more for sex being married than I would to an escort service.
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#96 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

Have you had a friend who was/ is a prostitute ?

I have , she chose to be one as a means to an end , and while i do not think it is a good career choice , i support a womans right to choose , what she does with her life and her body


Yes.

I am not saying that I am favor of making it illegal. I am simply saying that there's a lot of down sides to it that seemed to be ignored by those favoring it being made legal.

Often the means to an end is due to addiction. Call me a raging lefty but perhaps it would be better to help cure the addiction than make selling ones body easier would be the better way to go.

Oh, and not all women exactly choose to begin selling themselves let alone have much choice with their lives or their body. There's a reason why there's "living off of the avails" laws and rest assured they get flouted.

The myth of the happy hooker is just that. If not now then eventually.

#97 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

If marriage is legal so should prostitution. God knows I pay more for sex being married than I would to an escort service.


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#98 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

Yes.

I am not saying that I am favor of making it illegal. I am simply saying that there's a lot of down sides to it that seemed to be ignored by those favoring it being made legal.

Often the means to an end is due to addiction. Call me a raging lefty but perhaps it would be better to help cure the addiction than make selling ones body easier would be the better way to go.

Oh, and not all women exactly choose to begin selling themselves let alone have much choice with their lives or their body. There's a reason why there's "living off of the avails" laws and rest assured they get flouted.

The myth of the happy hooker is just that. If not now then eventually.


That is something we share in common then .

All the prostitutes i have met chose to be one , no one forced them to engage in prostitution, some of them even enjoyed the work .

As i have said i do not think it is a good career choice , and i do not think all "hookers" are happy .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#99 J.R.

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

http://www.ottawacit...6413/story.html



She aint even hot...


Nice body...bit of a "butter face". Not sure how I'd feel about her decision if I was her father but that's a lot of cake. Especially for Brazil.
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#100 Wetcoaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

That is something we share in common then .

All the prostitutes i have met chose to be one , no one forced them to engage in prostitution, some of them even enjoyed the work .

As i have said i do not think it is a good career choice , and i do not think all "hookers" are happy .

I have dealt with hundreds of prostitutes (in a professional capacity - not as a customer) and the ones who became prostitutes voluntarily were a minuscule percentage of the ones that I encountered.

The problems with pimps and recruitment is a serious issue and that is what the living off the avails and bawdy house provisions in the Criminal Code seeks to ameliorate. I absolutely loathe and despise pimps. The amount of violence I have seen visited on these women is shocking.

I recall one young girl that was being attacked on the street by a violent john and I intervened - with several well-placed blows of my Mag flashlight to his skull. BTW it is a myth that Mags do not dent. :) And then the idiot had problems getting his head past the door frame of my vehicle as i was getting ready to transport him to a holding cell. He should have learned to duck, I suppose.

As a result many of the girls working that area heard what I had done and whenever I needed street intel - all I had to do was ask.

The next week I again run into this girl and she asks me to help her get off the street as she was terrified of her pimp and I referred her to a group working with women trying to get out of the biz. A couple of weeks later I get a call at home from vice squad asking me if I knew her and I said yes. They said she was in hospital had asked for me by name. When I went to the hospital she told me that her pimp had found her. And her punishment? He had looped a piece of wire coat hanger into a wooden file handle and flayed her with it.

We ran down that piece of trash who was running a string of underage girls - some as young as 12. And somehow his file jacket was flagged as pedophile and someone in admin at the jail screwed up and put him in gen pop which did not work out so well for him when he suffered a severe head injury when hit with a pipe. So sad.

In my experience there are very few women who chose the life - most have no choice or have been coerced.
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#101 Dazzle

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:25 PM

I don't think I ever said that. The issues of drug addiction, family abuse, mental health, violence against women, etc are huge.

Changing the laws around prostitution will not help any of these women.


But at least women are not doing a "shady" industry where some may feel they can't report criminal activity for fear that prostitute reports are not taken seriously - that or they feel they may self-incriminate themselves.

Women who prostitute themselves should have transparent rights related to their industry. Government can then try and control that industry via taxation and/or social programs to help women engaged in the sex trade that are also addicted to drugs.

Furthermore, the two common traits that the "Highway of Tears" and the Robert Pickton incidents share are the fact that the prostitutes are not accounted for and thus deemed "irrelevant".

Edited by Dazzle, 25 October 2012 - 04:27 PM.

Posted Image --> THANKS EGATTI.
 

I have to say Dazzle's was the coolest. ROTFLOL


#102 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:43 PM

I have dealt with hundreds of prostitutes (in a professional capacity - not as a customer) and the ones who became prostitutes voluntarily were a minuscule percentage of the ones that I encountered.

The problems with pimps and recruitment is a serious issue and that is what the living off the avails and bawdy house provisions in the Criminal Code seeks to ameliorate. I absolutely loathe and despise pimps. The amount of violence I have seen visited on these women is shocking.

I recall one young girl that was being attacked on the street by a violent john and I intervened - with several well-placed blows of my Mag flashlight to his skull. BTW it is a myth that Mags do not dent. :) And then the idiot had problems getting his head past the door frame of my vehicle as i was getting ready to transport him to a holding cell. He should have learned to duck, I suppose.

As a result many of the girls working that area heard what I had done and whenever I needed street intel - all I had to do was ask.

The next week I again run into this girl and she asks me to help her get off the street as she was terrified of her pimp and I referred her to a group working with women trying to get out of the biz. A couple of weeks later I get a call at home from vice squad asking me if I knew her and I said yes. They said she was in hospital had asked for me by name. When I went to the hospital she told me that her pimp had found her. And her punishment? He had looped a piece of wire coat hanger into a wooden file handle and flayed her with it.

We ran down that piece of trash who was running a string of underage girls - some as young as 12. And somehow his file jacket was flagged as pedophile and someone in admin at the jail screwed up and put him in gen pop which did not work out so well for him when he suffered a severe head injury when hit with a pipe. So sad.

In my experience there are very few women who chose the life - most have no choice or have been coerced.


Well my experience in this matter is far different to yours , and i can assure you , most caucasian prostitutes in melbourne choose to be prostitutes , we do have a problen with the asian members of our population bringing in young girls and forcing them into prostitution , and this is one of the reasons why i believe it should be fully legalised and regulated .

I have met more scum bag lawyers than i have met women that have been forced into prostitution .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 25 October 2012 - 04:45 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#103 J.R.

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:46 PM

I have met more scum bag lawyers than i have met women that have been forced into prostitution .


That made me :lol: !
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#104 Big Dave

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:46 PM

I believe there is a huge difference between the women Wetcoaster is talking about - women who have been hooked onto drugs and then forced to hook by their pimps or have otherwise found themselves in that situation, and a young 21 year old college student who becomes an upscale escort to pay her way through school and save up for a down payment on an apartment/house. I have formed these opinions by engaging in online communities where these women advertise, get reviewed by their customers, and talk about general topics much like we do here in the off topic forum.
It is a dangerous profession, even for the high end escorts as they never know who it is coming through their door, but the smart ones have screening techniques and safety measures in place.
There are also many different reasons why men go to escorts, and it's not just losers who can't get laid. There's the busy businessmen who travel alot and don't have time to date, men who's wive's have lost all interest in sex even after the husband has tried everything to get things back on track (counselling etc), or men who's wives are way too sick to engage is sexual activity. There are even escorts who will provide services to men with disabilities that most women wouldn't touch.

#105 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

That made me :lol: !


It's true mate .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#106 Wetcoaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:07 PM

Well my experience in this matter is far different to yours , and i can assure you , most caucasian prostitutes in melbourne choose to be prostitutes , we do have a problen with the asian members of our population bringing in young girls and forcing them into prostitution , and this is one of the reasons why i believe it should be fully legalised and regulated .

I have met more scum bag lawyers than i have met women that have been forced into prostitution .

Since we are not talking about Melbourne...

Nor about lawyers...

You seem wildly off topic.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 25 October 2012 - 06:08 PM.

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#107 Wetcoaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

I believe there is a huge difference between the women Wetcoaster is talking about - women who have been hooked onto drugs and then forced to hook by their pimps or have otherwise found themselves in that situation, and a young 21 year old college student who becomes an upscale escort to pay her way through school and save up for a down payment on an apartment/house. I have formed these opinions by engaging in online communities where these women advertise, get reviewed by their customers, and talk about general topics much like we do here in the off topic forum.
It is a dangerous profession, even for the high end escorts as they never know who it is coming through their door, but the smart ones have screening techniques and safety measures in place.
There are also many different reasons why men go to escorts, and it's not just losers who can't get laid. There's the busy businessmen who travel alot and don't have time to date, men who's wive's have lost all interest in sex even after the husband has tried everything to get things back on track (counselling etc), or men who's wives are way too sick to engage is sexual activity. There are even escorts who will provide services to men with disabilities that most women wouldn't touch.

I have had dealings with the high end call girls as well and very few are college girls or women who have entered the life voluntarily.
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#108 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:53 AM

Since we are not talking about Melbourne...

Nor about lawyers...

You seem wildly off topic.


Really .

I would just like to clarify something with you wetcoaster , it was you that started a personal dialogue with me , replying to one of my posts .
You also know that i live in melbourne , i have informed you of this fact on at least one occassion, so where exactly do you think my experiences in the matter we are discussing , have taken Place ?
This is an issue that i feel very strongly about , and just because you have seen the absolute worst of prostitution does not mean that your experiences are common place.

In Canada, the buying and selling of sexual services are legal, but most surrounding activities, such as public communication for the purpose of prostitution, brothels and procuring are offences under the criminal law.

While the prohibition of the activities surrounding the sex trade makes it difficult to practice prostitution without breaking any law, the act of exchanging sex for money has never been illegal in Canada, a situation which has created and continues to create confusion and controversy.

The prostitution laws have been largely unchanged since the early 19th century despite frequent commissions, studies and constitutional challenges since the introduction of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982. There are currently a number of constitutional challenges in process, one of which has been partially upheld by the Ontario Court of Appeal, but the federal government announced they are appealing this decision to the Supreme Court of Canada.[1]

There is a general agreement that the status quo of prostitution in Canada is problematic, but there is no consensus on what should be done.[2] There is an ideological disagreement between those who want to see prostitution eliminated, generally because they view it either as an exploitative or unacceptable part of society, and those who view prostitution as a transaction between consenting adults and advocate decriminalization.

The current Conservative government is in favour of stronger sanctions, having rejected recommendations from the 2006 parliamentary committee for reform, an agenda which had been a matter of discussion since the 1985 Fraser report. wikipedia

Maybe it is the archiac nature of the laws in your country, that relate to prostitution, that cause many of the problems that you have mentioned

Here are some facts to back up my assertion , that most sexworkers in melbourne, CHOOSE to be sex workers , and choose to do this not because they are drug addicts , but because of the financial reward


Students turn to sex work to help pay for university
Tom Reilly
March 2, 2008


HUNDREDS of university students in Victoria have turned to prostitution to pay their way through higher education, The Sunday Age has learnt.

Up to 40% of the female sex workers in Melbourne's brothels are attending the city's eight universities and other colleges.

Many of the women cite the costs of course fees, increased rent and a rise in the general cost of living for their decision to join the "oldest profession".

One 22-year-old Monash student, who has been working as a prostitute and escort for 18 months, told The Sunday Age: "In an ideal world I wouldn't be doing this work but it's well paid and there's no way I could afford to complete university and live out of home if I had any other part-time job."

The huge earning potential for these girls is the biggest attraction of sex work. According to managers at numerous brothels across the city, a pretty woman can pocket as much as $1400 on a busy night.

Nearly all the brothels contacted by The Sunday Age this week admitted they had students working in their establishments. Many said that between 40% and 50% of their girls were in full-time education.

Glen Barnes, general manager at Melbourne's largest brothel, the Daily Planet, said that university students often made the best workers. He explained: "We've got nearly 200 girls on our books and I'd say at least 35% are students, and they're nearly always a pleasure to deal with.

"Typically they're very career-oriented and know exactly what they want to get out of the job. Going to uni is obviously getting more and more expensive, and for many who haven't got wealthy parents, this is the best way to make ends meet. Most of the girls say it's the rising costs of fees and being a student in an expensive city like Melbourne that is making them consider the sex industry.

"We're happy to have them and try to provide an environment which supports them. That means that if it's quiet and they're not with a client we allow them to get out their laptops and study in a spare room."

Although there is no official register of sex workers in Melbourne's brothels, industry insiders believe there are up to 2000 women who are selling their bodies in the city.

A spokeswoman for Top of the Town, another large brothel in the CBD, with about 90 girls on its books, said that girls from all backgrounds were involved.

"You really can't generalise about the type of girl that will become a sex worker," she said

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 26 October 2012 - 01:06 AM.

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#109 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:38 AM

^ All that seems to indicate is that legalising prostitution greatly increases the number and amount of prostitution going on.

#110 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

^ All that seems to indicate is that legalising prostitution greatly increases the number and amount of prostitution going on.


You are Kidding right ?

That article does nothing of the sort .
If you think that by making the oldest profession in the world illegal , it will stop it you are wrong .
And in fact it seems to make the working conditions of a sexworker more difficult and dangerous .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#111 J.R.

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:52 PM

It's true mate .


The funniest things usually are ;)
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#112 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

Really .

I would just like to clarify something with you wetcoaster , it was you that started a personal dialogue with me , replying to one of my posts .
You also know that i live in melbourne , i have informed you of this fact on at least one occassion, so where exactly do you think my experiences in the matter we are discussing , have taken Place ?
This is an issue that i feel very strongly about , and just because you have seen the absolute worst of prostitution does not mean that your experiences are common place.

In Canada, the buying and selling of sexual services are legal, but most surrounding activities, such as public communication for the purpose of prostitution, brothels and procuring are offences under the criminal law.

While the prohibition of the activities surrounding the sex trade makes it difficult to practice prostitution without breaking any law, the act of exchanging sex for money has never been illegal in Canada, a situation which has created and continues to create confusion and controversy.

The prostitution laws have been largely unchanged since the early 19th century despite frequent commissions, studies and constitutional challenges since the introduction of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982. There are currently a number of constitutional challenges in process, one of which has been partially upheld by the Ontario Court of Appeal, but the federal government announced they are appealing this decision to the Supreme Court of Canada.[1]

There is a general agreement that the status quo of prostitution in Canada is problematic, but there is no consensus on what should be done.[2] There is an ideological disagreement between those who want to see prostitution eliminated, generally because they view it either as an exploitative or unacceptable part of society, and those who view prostitution as a transaction between consenting adults and advocate decriminalization.

The current Conservative government is in favour of stronger sanctions, having rejected recommendations from the 2006 parliamentary committee for reform, an agenda which had been a matter of discussion since the 1985 Fraser report. wikipedia

Maybe it is the archiac nature of the laws in your country, that relate to prostitution, that cause many of the problems that you have mentioned

Here are some facts to back up my assertion , that most sexworkers in melbourne, CHOOSE to be sex workers , and choose to do this not because they are drug addicts , but because of the financial reward


Students turn to sex work to help pay for university
Tom Reilly
March 2, 2008


HUNDREDS of university students in Victoria have turned to prostitution to pay their way through higher education, The Sunday Age has learnt.

Up to 40% of the female sex workers in Melbourne's brothels are attending the city's eight universities and other colleges.

Many of the women cite the costs of course fees, increased rent and a rise in the general cost of living for their decision to join the "oldest profession".

One 22-year-old Monash student, who has been working as a prostitute and escort for 18 months, told The Sunday Age: "In an ideal world I wouldn't be doing this work but it's well paid and there's no way I could afford to complete university and live out of home if I had any other part-time job."

The huge earning potential for these girls is the biggest attraction of sex work. According to managers at numerous brothels across the city, a pretty woman can pocket as much as $1400 on a busy night.

Nearly all the brothels contacted by The Sunday Age this week admitted they had students working in their establishments. Many said that between 40% and 50% of their girls were in full-time education.

Glen Barnes, general manager at Melbourne's largest brothel, the Daily Planet, said that university students often made the best workers. He explained: "We've got nearly 200 girls on our books and I'd say at least 35% are students, and they're nearly always a pleasure to deal with.

"Typically they're very career-oriented and know exactly what they want to get out of the job. Going to uni is obviously getting more and more expensive, and for many who haven't got wealthy parents, this is the best way to make ends meet. Most of the girls say it's the rising costs of fees and being a student in an expensive city like Melbourne that is making them consider the sex industry.

"We're happy to have them and try to provide an environment which supports them. That means that if it's quiet and they're not with a client we allow them to get out their laptops and study in a spare room."

Although there is no official register of sex workers in Melbourne's brothels, industry insiders believe there are up to 2000 women who are selling their bodies in the city.

A spokeswoman for Top of the Town, another large brothel in the CBD, with about 90 girls on its books, said that girls from all backgrounds were involved.

"You really can't generalise about the type of girl that will become a sex worker," she said

As far as the act of prostitution being legal, you are simply re-posting something I have noted on numerous occasions, including in the thread in the past.

It comes under the rubric of try not to teach your grandma to suck eggs. Repeating what I have said earlier does not in any way enhance your argument.

I was involved in a number of joint operations with VPD vice squad before, during and after the currency of the SCOC decision in Hutt and also as legal counsel. So "hands on" experience in a professional manner.

See Post #3 in this thread:

The Hutt decision in 1978 by the Supreme Court of Canada determined that a car was not a public place for the purposes of solicitation. That opened up the whole issue of street prostitution as it was virtually impossible for the police to get convictions until the Criminal Code was amended a number of years later.
http://scc.lexum.umo...78scr2-476.html

As noted in this link reporting the recent decision:

Although prostitution itself is not illegal in Canada, almost everything associated with it is, a situation that was once described as "bizarre" by a judge of the Supreme Court of Canada.

http://www.thespec.c...ostitution-laws


And:
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9952336
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9861467
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9861381
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9778715
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9015539
http://forum.canucks...ost__p__9011211


As far as the quote from an operator of an escort service in Melbourne file that under the heading of a biased opinion by a self-interested party as the last thing such a person in such a role would ever acknowledge is that as the Crown has noted in its opposition to striking down these provisions.

During the trial the government presented prostitution as an inherently harmful activity, with significant links to violence, organized crime, and the exploitation and trafficking of children and adults. The Crown presented sex workers as victims, people who turned to prostitution as a career option due to poverty, homelessness or addiction. The evidence put forward also argued “distinctions between indoor and outdoor prostitution are not meaningful.” In addition to pointing to the important moral objectives that are surveyed by the current laws, the Crown also submitted expert evidence of international experiences in decriminalization to show that it may not be the best approach for the social management of prostitution. The plaintiffs never were able to counter that evidence.

During the stay application case in Bedford the government tendered evidence that the portions of the Criminal Code which were struck down were used by police to target pimps and human traffickers and protect prostitutes from exploitation. Again the respondents were unable to counter that evidence.

This position has been consistent for decades through both Liberal and Conservative governments.

Perhaps you should stick to commenting upon the laws and a regime in a country of which you actually have experience and that is as you say not Canada. Again we are not talking about Melbourne in this thread and your "evidence" in this jurisdiction is irrelevant and immaterial.

And try not taking random shots at lawyers which has virtually nothing to do with this topic.
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#113 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:06 PM

You are Kidding right ?

That article does nothing of the sort .
If you think that by making the oldest profession in the world illegal , it will stop it you are wrong .
And in fact it seems to make the working conditions of a sexworker more difficult and dangerous .

Nope he is not kidding.

And your article is irrelevant and immaterial to the issue under discussion which is prostitution IN CANADA and how the CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA deals with activities that surround the legal act of prostitution.

BTW as I understand the situation in Australiaprostitution laws vary as it is generally regulated by state and territory laws (much like the US system) as opposed to our all encompassing federal law per the Criminal Code of Canada. "Apples and orangutans" is another expression that comes to mind applied to your posts in this thread.
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#114 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

That was some of the best BS i have read in a long time , and i can see that you make a great lawyer , your ability to obfuscate is second to none .

I repeat , your archiac laws seem to contribute to the dangerous working conditions of sex workers in your country , and your efforts to gag me , telling me i should stick to talking about my own country , are ridiculous , or are you trying to take away my right of freedom of speech ?

Maybe a more enlightened approach to a profession that predates yours by thousands of years , would actually help those , that choose to make a living from it .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 26 October 2012 - 01:17 PM.

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#115 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:21 PM

That was some of the best BS i have read in a long time , and i can see that you make a great lawyer , your ability to obfuscate is second to none .

I repeat , your archiac laws seems to contribute to the dangerous working conditions of sex workers in your country , and your efforts to gag me , telling me i should stick to talking about my own country , are ridiculous , or are you trying to take away my right of freedom of speech ?

Maybe a more enlightened approach to a profession that predates yours by thousands of years , would actually help those , that choose to make a living from it .

"BS"?

You get called on the fact that the basis of your opinion is inapplicable to the matter under discussion in this thread. And your opinion is exposed as uninformed.

"BS" down under must mean something different than it does in Canada.

I am not gagging you, just offering you sage advice based upon a wealth of experience in the jurisdiction applicable to the issue under discussion so you do not continue to embarrass yourself by posting off topic and irrelevant "evidence"

As always:

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#116 Drybone

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:24 PM

I have dealt with hundreds of prostitutes (in a professional capacity - not as a customer) and the ones who became prostitutes voluntarily were a minuscule percentage of the ones that I encountered.

The problems with pimps and recruitment is a serious issue and that is what the living off the avails and bawdy house provisions in the Criminal Code seeks to ameliorate. I absolutely loathe and despise pimps. The amount of violence I have seen visited on these women is shocking.

I recall one young girl that was being attacked on the street by a violent john and I intervened - with several well-placed blows of my Mag flashlight to his skull. BTW it is a myth that Mags do not dent. :) And then the idiot had problems getting his head past the door frame of my vehicle as i was getting ready to transport him to a holding cell. He should have learned to duck, I suppose.

As a result many of the girls working that area heard what I had done and whenever I needed street intel - all I had to do was ask.

The next week I again run into this girl and she asks me to help her get off the street as she was terrified of her pimp and I referred her to a group working with women trying to get out of the biz. A couple of weeks later I get a call at home from vice squad asking me if I knew her and I said yes. They said she was in hospital had asked for me by name. When I went to the hospital she told me that her pimp had found her. And her punishment? He had looped a piece of wire coat hanger into a wooden file handle and flayed her with it.

We ran down that piece of trash who was running a string of underage girls - some as young as 12. And somehow his file jacket was flagged as pedophile and someone in admin at the jail screwed up and put him in gen pop which did not work out so well for him when he suffered a severe head injury when hit with a pipe. So sad.

In my experience there are very few women who chose the life - most have no choice or have been coerced.


What a shame there was a 'mix up' on his paper work and he got put into gen pop.

So sad....... :towel:
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#117 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

"BS"?

You get called on the fact that the basis of your opinion is inapplicable to the matter under discussion in this thread. And your opinion is exposed as uninformed.

"BS" down under must mean something different than it does in Canada.

I am not gagging you, just offering you sage advice based upon a wealth of experience in the jurisdiction applicable to the issue under discussion so you do not continue to embarrass yourself by posting off topic and irrelevant "evidence"

As always:

Posted Image


YOU CALLED ME :lol:

And please enlighten me as to why my opinion is inapplicable and uninformed .

I have educated myself on the basic laws of prostitution in your country , and in my HONEST opinion , they need to be changed .

As always here to enlighten :)

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 26 October 2012 - 01:43 PM.

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#118 J.R.

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

YOU CALLED ME :lol:

And please me enlighten as to why my opinion is inapplicable and uninformed .

I have educated myself on the basic laws of prostitution in your country , and in my HONEST opinion , they need to be changed .

As always here to enlighten :)


Wet tends to have trouble comprehending people who want to change laws for the better. He seems to only capable of grasping the law as it is, not as it should be.
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#119 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

Wet tends to have trouble comprehending people who want to change laws for the better. He seems to only capable of grasping the law as it is, not as it should be.

Nope that is incorrect.

I have supported amending laws where it makes sense.

In this case negating the Criminal Code provisions at issue in this case leaves prostitutes more exposed to exploitation by pimps and human traffickers.
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#120 J.R.

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

Nope that is incorrect.


There's a pretty good history of it in numerous threads. I remember Ron and you having a pretty good back and forth more than once. But whatever floats your boat Wet ;)
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