Kevin Bieksa you are really...

[Finaddict]

Too late, Sampy

[vwnuck]

i would be ok with ehhroff going when salo comes back... he doesn't bring anything salo doesn't. and salo is 50% more responsible defensively... ehrhoff is going to want a BIG raise after this year... and his performance thus far has not warranted that substantial raise.... given the economics of the game who is to say who will stay and who will go... come play offs bieksa was our best d man other than salo. do we really want a joe thorton d man who come play off time is already thinking about his back swing???? i say dumb the hoff...

or if ballard doesn't improve get rid of him...

[Sharpshooter]

Sampy,

You're awesome.

That is all.

[CANUCKLELION]

i would be ok with ehhroff going when salo comes back... he doesn't bring anything salo doesn't. and salo is 50% more responsible defensively... ehrhoff is going to want a BIG raise after this year... and his performance thus far has not warranted that substantial raise.... given the economics of the game who is to say who will stay and who will go... come play offs bieksa was our best d man other than salo. do we really want a joe thorton d man who come play off time is already thinking about his back swing???? i say dumb the hoff...

or if ballard doesn't improve get rid of him...

You've gotta be joking. The teams objective is to build a champ, not disassemble key components like Ehrhoff and Ballard. They are both bona fide NHL top 4 Dmen, Bxa isn't.

[wallstreetamigo]

i would be ok with ehhroff going when salo comes back... he doesn't bring anything salo doesn't. and salo is 50% more responsible defensively... ehrhoff is going to want a BIG raise after this year... and his performance thus far has not warranted that substantial raise.... given the economics of the game who is to say who will stay and who will go... come play offs bieksa was our best d man other than salo. do we really want a joe thorton d man who come play off time is already thinking about his back swing???? i say dumb the hoff...

or if ballard doesn't improve get rid of him...

How do you know Ehrhoff will want a big raise and that Bieksa won't?

It is true that Bieksa was our best dman in a couple of games in the playoffs. He was also flat out the worst in others. He got his points but he also contributed significantly to the events that changed the momentum of the series against Chicago.

You are so desperate for the team to keep Bieksa that you don't even provide any valid reasons to consider Ehrhoff or Ballard instead.

Ehrhoff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at everything offensive-minded. He is fast, mobile, a great passer, has a good shot, and drives the offense from the blueline. Defensively, he is better positionally but not as good a hitter or fighter. There is no argument right now that can be made to move him rather than Bieksa. Salary demands might be one down the road, but there is no way to make that determination until they know what Ehrhoff will settle for and what Bieksa sill settle for. Ehrhoff is still the better choice for the top 4 on this team.

Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at defense, shot blocking, and hitting. Plus, he was just acquired by MG and has not had any chance to show anything here yet. Why MG would bail on him without even giving him a chance is a valid question that none of the people suggesting Ballard be traded even bother trying to answer.

Sorry man, Bieksa is still the best and easiest choice to go when the time comes.

[vwnuck]

You've gotta be joking. The teams objective is to build a champ, not disassemble key components like Ehrhoff and Ballard. They are both bona fide NHL top 4 Dmen, Bxa isn't.

there is NO way ehrhoff or ballard or Bonafide top nhl dmen... top dmen don't bounce around to other teams.. ala ballard.. and top d men are not given a way for plugs to make salary cap.. ala ehrhoff...

there is no denying ehrhoffs offensive skill, but its his defensive skill that is my problem... he was just as bad last year but no one seemed to care, he has not gotten any better and come play offs he is absolutely garbage... don't believe me go watch the games from last year... he was just rubbish.

edler was hit and miss salo was our best dman but again he was injured... other than them bieksa was our best...

so far this year ballard has not earned his 4 mil contract... and there is no way ehrhoff deserves more than 3.8 no way. so i am sure he is asking for around 5-6 but its just not going to happen...

[vwnuck]

How do you know Ehrhoff will want a big raise and that Bieksa won't?

It is true that Bieksa was our best dman in a couple of games in the playoffs. He was also flat out the worst in others. He got his points but he also contributed significantly to the events that changed the momentum of the series against Chicago.

You are so desperate for the team to keep Bieksa that you don't even provide any valid reasons to consider Ehrhoff or Ballard instead.

Ehrhoff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at everything offensive-minded. He is fast, mobile, a great passer, has a good shot, and drives the offense from the blueline. Defensively, he is better positionally but not as good a hitter or fighter. There is no argument right now that can be made to move him rather than Bieksa. Salary demands might be one down the road, but there is no way to make that determination until they know what Ehrhoff will settle for and what Bieksa sill settle for. Ehrhoff is still the better choice for the top 4 on this team.

Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at defense, shot blocking, and hitting. Plus, he was just acquired by MG and has not had any chance to show anything here yet. Why MG would bail on him without even giving him a chance is a valid question that none of the people suggesting Ballard be traded even bother trying to answer.

Sorry man, Bieksa is still the best and easiest choice to go when the time comes.

i never said to give up on ballard before he is given a chance. i said if he doesn't improve then maybe.. ya he can through a hip check that would make rob blake blush but, he has shown little else...

ya ehrhoff has shown alot of upside, but he has shown alot of the things that have gotten bieksa in the dog house... so far this year bieksa has by far been better defensively than ehrhoff...

and as for the canucks and chicago... some fail to see that was blamed for trying to cover other players mistakes... no one seems to remember ehrhoff being out of position and bieksa trying to cover. and we got scored on and it was blame bieksa... every one talks about the slide in front to block a shot.. but no one relises all 3 forwards were out of position and bieksa did his best to block a shot... to cover... what was he supposed to do let them shoot... he might as well let the score, so he doesn't get blamed but i am sure he would have anyway, it would have been oh he just stood there like the rest of the team....

the reason i want bieksa to stay is i feel he makes the team better... salo is a better version of ehrhoff...

[wallstreetamigo]

there is NO way ehrhoff or ballard or Bonafide top nhl dmen... top dmen don't bounce around to other teams.. ala ballard.. and top d men are not given a way for plugs to make salary cap.. ala ehrhoff...

there is no denying ehrhoffs offensive skill, but its his defensive skill that is my problem... he was just as bad last year but no one seemed to care, he has not gotten any better and come play offs he is absolutely garbage... don't believe me go watch the games from last year... he was just rubbish.

edler was hit and miss salo was our best dman but again he was injured... other than them bieksa was our best...

so far this year ballard has not earned his 4 mil contract... and there is no way ehrhoff deserves more than 3.8 no way. so i am sure he is asking for around 5-6 but its just not going to happen...

Wow, you say Ehrhoff and Ballard are not top dmen yet you think Bieksa is???? Do you even know how stupid you sound?

Also, just because a player gets traded doesn't make them plugs. Stop talking out of your rear about why they were traded too.

Ehrhoff was traded to create room for a star player, Heatley. Everyone knew what the Sharks were trying to do and trading away plugs was not going to get it done. They had to sacrifice talent to get it done and were trying to so from an area of strength (at the time). It sure looks like a mistake for them now though. Ehrhoff was the wrong piece for them to move.

Also, did you even bother to look to see who Ballard was traded for? He was traded twice as a prospect before playing an NHL game. First, to Colorado straight across for Steven Reinprecht. Then he was traded with Derek Morris for Chris Gratton, Ossi Vaananan, and a 2nd round pick.

He was then traded as the centerpiece going to Florida for Olli Jokinen (with Nick Boynton and a second round pick).

He was traded for proven NHL players as a prospect, showing that other teams coveted him rather than he was a throw in to rid themselves of him. He was then the main piece for the highly coveted (at the time) Jokinen.

Hardly teams giving up on him. More like having to let him go to get something they wanted.

Go and watch game 6 if you think Bieksa was our best. HE was garbage in that game and also in Game 2 (which turned the momentum of the series. Other than Game 5 (where he was really good) he was average to garbage the rest of the Chicago series.

Also, you have no idea what Ehrhoff is asking for. That is all speculation and it is too early to say what he is willing to take to stay. And if Ehrhoff is only worth 3.8 million, that means Bieksa is worth 1.5 million.

[wallstreetamigo]

i never said to give up on ballard before he is given a chance. i said if he doesn't improve then maybe.. ya he can through a hip check that would make rob blake blush but, he has shown little else...

ya ehrhoff has shown alot of upside, but he has shown alot of the things that have gotten bieksa in the dog house... so far this year bieksa has by far been better defensively than ehrhoff...

and as for the canucks and chicago... some fail to see that was blamed for trying to cover other players mistakes... no one seems to remember ehrhoff being out of position and bieksa trying to cover. and we got scored on and it was blame bieksa... every one talks about the slide in front to block a shot.. but no one relises all 3 forwards were out of position and bieksa did his best to block a shot... to cover... what was he supposed to do let them shoot... he might as well let the score, so he doesn't get blamed but i am sure he would have anyway, it would have been oh he just stood there like the rest of the team....

the reason i want bieksa to stay is i feel he makes the team better... salo is a better version of ehrhoff...

And Ehrhoff has been much better offensively than Bieksa this season.....what exactly is your point?

Do you realize that finding an offensive dman is a lot harder than finding a defensive one? And that defensive guys can generally be found a lot cheaper? There is a reason offensive dmen are highly coveted and highly paid. Supply and demand.

Bieksa was not worth 3.75 million when he WAS providing offense to the team because he was terrible defensively. He is worth even less now as a defensive player with no offense. Much cheaper and better defensive options are and will be available.

Ballard has been given no real chance to show what he is capable of on this team. He has STILL been better defensively, more physical, and much better blocking shots than Bieksa, even with half the ice time per game.

As for the play against Chicago, Bieksa was a main contributor to letting Versteeg have nothing but time and space. He also gave him the option to shoot OR to pass, which left Luongo wondering which was going to happen. Blaming it on others does not absolve Bieksa from his 2 brutal shot block attempts that put him totally out of position.

Thank god we have Ballard now, who can actually block a shot without sliding across the ice waiting to get danced around.

[RUPERTKBD]

I think it's fairly safe to say the Ehrhoff is going to cost around the 5 million mark to retain. This creates several possible scenarios:

1 - Bieksa is traded for picks prospects when Salo returns. This is the most likely result, IMO. The fact is, (as Wally has pointed out) this is the least complicated solution. In the off-season, Ehrhoff is re-signed and Salo is let go.

Although VW is right about Ehrhoff's defensive shortcomings, what he brings offensively makes it worthwhile. Guys like Hammer and Ballard were brought in to help in this area, and I'm confident that they can do so.

2 - Ehroff is traded. Much less likely, IMO as the Canucks' window for success is finite, and CE gives the team the best chance to win right now.

3 - A forward is traded, and both Ehrhoff and Bieksa are retained. This one is a possibility, but I don't think the team wants to lose the playoff experience of the logical choice: Samuelsson. Bear in mind that Sammy was one of the team's best playoff performers last season.

Another possibility that hasn't been talked much about is moving Bieksa and keeping Ehrhoff even without a new contract for Ehrhoff. I think this is a very real possibility if the two sides can't agree to an extension. Although it hurts to get nothing in return for CE, the future is right now for Vancouver, and the team needs him.

Gillis may be forced to look at free agents in the off-season. He could even make an offer for Bieksa.

I would love to see the responses of Wally, CANUCKELION, Hank&Dan, et al if that happened.

Every sceanrio has it's positives and negatives, however, as I have said before, I have confidence that Gillis and Gilman have thought this through and will do what's best.

[vwnuck]

How do you know Ehrhoff will want a big raise and that Bieksa won't?

It is true that Bieksa was our best dman in a couple of games in the playoffs. He was also flat out the worst in others. He got his points but he also contributed significantly to the events that changed the momentum of the series against Chicago.

You are so desperate for the team to keep Bieksa that you don't even provide any valid reasons to consider Ehrhoff or Ballard instead.

Ehrhoff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at everything offensive-minded. He is fast, mobile, a great passer, has a good shot, and drives the offense from the blueline. Defensively, he is better positionally but not as good a hitter or fighter. There is no argument right now that can be made to move him rather than Bieksa. Salary demands might be one down the road, but there is no way to make that determination until they know what Ehrhoff will settle for and what Bieksa sill settle for. Ehrhoff is still the better choice for the top 4 on this team.

Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bieksa at defense, shot blocking, and hitting. Plus, he was just acquired by MG and has not had any chance to show anything here yet. Why MG would bail on him without even giving him a chance is a valid question that none of the people suggesting Ballard be traded even bother trying to answer.

Sorry man, Bieksa is still the best and easiest choice to go when the time comes.

[vwnuck]

Wow, you say Ehrhoff and Ballard are not top dmen yet you think Bieksa is???? Do you even know how stupid you sound?

Also, just because a player gets traded doesn't make them plugs. Stop talking out of your rear about why they were traded too.

Ehrhoff was traded to create room for a star player, Heatley. Everyone knew what the Sharks were trying to do and trading away plugs was not going to get it done. They had to sacrifice talent to get it done and were trying to so from an area of strength (at the time). It sure looks like a mistake for them now though. Ehrhoff was the wrong piece for them to move.

Also, did you even bother to look to see who Ballard was traded for? He was traded twice as a prospect before playing an NHL game. First, to Colorado straight across for Steven Reinprecht. Then he was traded with Derek Morris for Chris Gratton, Ossi Vaananan, and a 2nd round pick.

He was then traded as the centerpiece going to Florida for Olli Jokinen (with Nick Boynton and a second round pick).

He was traded for proven NHL players as a prospect, showing that other teams coveted him rather than he was a throw in to rid themselves of him. He was then the main piece for the highly coveted (at the time) Jokinen.

Hardly teams giving up on him. More like having to let him go to get something they wanted.

Go and watch game 6 if you think Bieksa was our best. HE was garbage in that game and also in Game 2 (which turned the momentum of the series. Other than Game 5 (where he was really good) he was average to garbage the rest of the Chicago series.

Also, you have no idea what Ehrhoff is asking for. That is all speculation and it is too early to say what he is willing to take to stay. And if Ehrhoff is only worth 3.8 million, that means Bieksa is worth 1.5 million.

ok i am not even going to waste my time reading the rest of your post... well because your an idiot... think before you talk... rahimi and white... PLUGS...... And no i didn't look to see who ballard was traded for because i was not talking about him when i said that.... wow... did you go to school much?

well i guess if YOU say he is worth 1.5 ehrhoff must only be worth .5

[vwnuck]

And Ehrhoff has been much better offensively than Bieksa this season.....what exactly is your point?

Do you realize that finding an offensive dman is a lot harder than finding a defensive one? And that defensive guys can generally be found a lot cheaper? There is a reason offensive dmen are highly coveted and highly paid. Supply and demand.

Bieksa was not worth 3.75 million when he WAS providing offense to the team because he was terrible defensively. He is worth even less now as a defensive player with no offense. Much cheaper and better defensive options are and will be available.

Ballard has been given no real chance to show what he is capable of on this team. He has STILL been better defensively, more physical, and much better blocking shots than Bieksa, even with half the ice time per game.

As for the play against Chicago, Bieksa was a main contributor to letting Versteeg have nothing but time and space. He also gave him the option to shoot OR to pass, which left Luongo wondering which was going to happen. Blaming it on others does not absolve Bieksa from his 2 brutal shot block attempts that put him totally out of position.

Thank god we have Ballard now, who can actually block a shot without sliding across the ice waiting to get danced around.

ok ehrhoff has be much better OFENSIVELY... you just made my point... CAUSE HE IS A DEFENSMAN..... POINT MADE.. He should be more concerned about keeping the puck out of our net and than racking up points..

[wallstreetamigo]

ok i am not even going to waste my time reading the rest of your post... well because your an idiot... think before you talk... rahimi and white... PLUGS...... And no i didn't look to see who ballard was traded for because i was not talking about him when i said that.... wow... did you go to school much?

well i guess if YOU say he is worth 1.5 ehrhoff must only be worth .5

First, I would be willing to bet that I am much more and better educated than you are, so keep your fail of an insult to yourself. The only idiot here is you. Bieksa is not as good as Ehrhoff or Ballard and not many would argue that point.

You made the (stupid and ridiculous) point that Ballard has "bounced around" to different teams, implying it is because he is not a top Dman. And my point was that if you actually look at who Ballard was traded for and the circumstances behind those trades, you would see that he has not bounced around to teams in the negative way you portray. He has been coveted by other teams in two trades BECAUSE he was a great prospect and then BECAUSE he is a top Dman.

As for the Ehrhoff situation, what do you not understand about the Sharks having zero leverage to demand anything but crap prospects from Vancouver? They were so desperate to get Heatley that they could not demand anything of value in return for Ehrhoff. Vancouver also had to take on Lukowich's contract, another reason Vancouver pushed for Ehrhoff and another reason SJ had zero leverage.

Teams make trades to meet needs. The only need SJ had was to get rid of cap space. To do that, they had to send Ehrhoff in order to be able to get rid of Lukowich too.

Again.....the most likely scenario......Bieksa to be traded.

[wallstreetamigo]

ok ehrhoff has be much better OFENSIVELY... you just made my point... CAUSE HE IS A DEFENSMAN..... POINT MADE.. He should be more concerned about keeping the puck out of our net and than racking up points..

Actually, Ehrhoff has been pretty comparable to Bieksa this season defensively too. It is not like Bieksa has been great and Ehrhoff has been brutal. Both have been average.

Given the additional offensive skill and production, Ehrhoff makes more sense on this team by a long shot.

Something also tells me that before Bieksa's tremendous free fall to limited offensive production, you were likely one of the people who said how valuable he is because of his points. Did you say for the past 4 years about Bieksa (who was by far the worst defensive dman at "worrying about keeping the puck out of our net rather than racking up points")? Somehow I doubt it.

The difference with Ehroff is that he is a great offensive dman and is still not a liability defensively at the same time.

Like I said.....best option.....Bieska traded.

[vwnuck]

Actually, Ehrhoff has been pretty comparable to Bieksa this season defensively too. It is not like Bieksa has been great and Ehrhoff has been brutal. Both have been average.

Given the additional offensive skill and production, Ehrhoff makes more sense on this team by a long shot.

Something also tells me that before Bieksa's tremendous free fall to limited offensive production, you were likely one of the people who said how valuable he is because of his points. Did you say for the past 4 years about Bieksa (who was by far the worst defensive dman at "worrying about keeping the puck out of our net rather than racking up points")? Somehow I doubt it.

The difference with Ehroff is that he is a great offensive dman and is still not a liability defensively at the same time.

Like I said.....best option.....Bieska traded.

i guess we will have to agree to disagree... cause i see beiksa as a way strong defensive minded defenseman than ehrhoff.. the only reason ehrhoff has so many points is that he has been on the what are they in the top 5 pp... he has not had many even strength points...bieksa would put up the same amount of points being on the first pp... any monkey can get points playing with the sedins..

my problem with ehrhoff is he is not tough enough he gets pushed around to easily...and as we all know the play offs are far more physical..and he is the first to the front of the net sometimes which cause odd man rushes for no reason.. then he doesn't really try to get.back into position...... all the things that people complained about bieksa .. ehrhoff now does...well he has actually done them for quite some time but know one seems to care..

[Kanye West]

254 pages on KB, that does not surprise me the least.

[vwnuck]

254 pages on KB, that does not surprise me the least.

there is alot of nothing on here, i actually think a couple of days ago acouple of guys were arguing about hodgson...

[wallstreetamigo]

i guess we will have to agree to disagree... cause i see beiksa as a way strong defensive minded defenseman than ehrhoff.. the only reason ehrhoff has so many points is that he has been on the what are they in the top 5 pp... he has not had many even strength points...bieksa would put up the same amount of points being on the first pp... any monkey can get points playing with the sedins..

my problem with ehrhoff is he is not tough enough he gets pushed around to easily...and as we all know the play offs are far more physical..and he is the first to the front of the net sometimes which cause odd man rushes for no reason.. then he doesn't really try to get.back into position...... all the things that people complained about bieksa .. ehrhoff now does...well he has actually done them for quite some time but know one seems to care..

As I have said before, not every dman has to be rough and tough to be a good defenseman. That is the "Good Canadian Boy" myth. Skill is important too. And Ehrhoff is not quite the pansy you make him out to be anyway.

Who cares where Ehrhoff gets his points? At least he gets them, unlike Bieksa this season (despite having been handed the 3rd most PP time on this team).

In case you haven't noticed, Bieksa makes all the same defensive blunders and ill timed pinches/holds that he used to. He just doesn't make them as often. His awareness of the game around him is not much better than it ever was.

I also love how now that Bieksa can only get a handful of ES points and is better defensively, those are the only things that matter.

What do you think is easier for teams to find, an offensive PP quarterback whos is still actually reasonable defensively or an average defensive guy who isn't putting up many points? Who do you think those teams would rather have at 3.75 million?

Best option.....trade Bieksa.

[Frozen Water Walker]

I had to join just to get in on the the juice squeeze,,,,

wow some real emotion