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Zach Parise

Kevin Bieksa you are really...

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He may have been waiting for a pass that got bothced but still got roasted, albeit by Selanne -- most would, but then even worse yet gave up on the play when a decent effort to cycle to the open opponent may may have prevented the game changing goal. All I saw was #3 saunter into the play coasting and waiting for the red light to come on. I will grant you we were pushing to hard and it was the result of another player's poor play but being the defenceman you have responsibilty to stop the other players no matter what. It didn't stop Alberts from putting 100% effort in and barely negating a goal when he was caught out of position to no fault of his own at center ice with a much faster player.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt here and re-watched the play. Not even close to "sauntering". In fact he busted his butt and prevented Selanne from going in on a clear cut breakaway.

He then left his position to cover the trailer because Hank was late in doing so. (I admit this may have been a tactical error, but hardly a lack of effort) It should also be noted that Samuelsson shares the blame for this because he decided to check the player that Bieksa was already covering, leaving the trailer wide open.

To blame Bieksa for this goal is to ignore glaring mistakes by both Hank and Sammy.

EDIT: In watching this replay, I see that Visnovsky was guilty of playing the puck with his hand while it was in the crease. I realize that this isn't the same as closing his hand on the puck, but I've it seen called for less....

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I find it interesting that, Before the season started, people were refuting my point based on bieksas +- stat, when it wasnt a good stat for them to use to show he was a good player... Now after a huge amount of games (3) He is a +1, and all of a sudden, wooooo... He cant be bad..hes plus one!!

I never used it.....and I most certainly never woooooooo'ed

But I still 'refudiate' ;)

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<br />Are you people watching the games? Bieksa surely hasn't been a superstar, but he has been solid. <br /><br />Simple, confident plays<br />Well timed pinches<br />Physical presence<br /><br />I wanna hear some logical points as to why Bieksa's play could possibly be considered poor.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

Totally agree buddy, i cant belive how many people all over this guy! I guess some people just need to point the finger at somebody. Like you said he hasnt been our best defencemen but hes really doing what hes being asked to do. The coaching staff isnt asking for him to play 25mins be our best defencemen. I hear a lot about the slashing penalty he took last night. Get over it, if the stick never broke it wouldnt have been an issue, i havent heard one person say anything about henriks cough up in the neutral zone that led to a goal??? we may be 1-1-1 but im happy with what i see. I dont see any real weaknesses once burr is back to balance out the lines a bit better. i think after these guys anyone who knows hockey sould be pretty optimistic about the season!

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I never used it.....and I most certainly never woooooooo'ed

But I still 'refudiate' ;)

Yes I know, you never used the plus minus stat.Never mentioned you did...

As can be seen when I quoted someone else :P

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It wasn't like it was Parros cutting down the wing, it was a superstar in Bobby Ryan and Bieksa was caught flat footed as he was about to pinch but then realized he was last man back and Ryan was in full stride and Bieksa was able to catch up which is why Ryan had to stop and make a play. True, he didn't look the greatest on that goal though. But how about 5++ great pinches he did make and how many times he kept the puck in on the PP. The penalty wouldn't have been called had his stick not broke. Nuf said!

And this post is in support of Boo Boo?

"He cost us a goal on that play, and took a penalty to put us down 2 men thereby resulting in another goal, but hey! he did make 5 good piches which didn't result in any goals."

With that in mind, there's been a lot of talk here lately about Bieksa's supposedly "high risk/high reward" approach. But even were you to grant that it's a saw off (which I reject, see above for last night's example), there's a thing that managers in ANY sport like to call "game management". That is, doing certain things, or avoiding certain things, at certain times of the game. For example, when the Canucks are tied or, even more crucailly, up by one goal in the third period, a D man under any circumstances DOES NOT pinch or rush to join the play or stay trapped up ice or make a dangerous cross ice pass in one's own zone or get cute with the puck. There is very little reward (the team is already in the driver's seat), and ENORMOUS risk. This is the typical Bieksa attitude. It's not stubbornness, it's not selfishness to get points, he simply has NO CLUE how he should play in many circumstances. Very low hockey IQ. I actually cringe every time he's out there late in the game when the Canucks are tied or are winning by one.

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<br /><br /><br />

Totally agree buddy, i cant belive how many people all over this guy! I guess some people just need to point the finger at somebody. Like you said he hasnt been our best defencemen but hes really doing what hes being asked to do. The coaching staff isnt asking for him to play 25mins be our best defencemen. I hear a lot about the slashing penalty he took last night. Get over it, if the stick never broke it wouldnt have been an issue, i havent heard one person say anything about henriks cough up in the neutral zone that led to a goal??? we may be 1-1-1 but im happy with what i see. I dont see any real weaknesses once burr is back to balance out the lines a bit better. i think after these guys anyone who knows hockey sould be pretty optimistic about the season!

Well Said!

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And this post is in support of Boo Boo?

"He cost us a goal on that play, and took a penalty to put us down 2 men thereby resulting in another goal, but hey! he did make 5 good piches which didn't result in any goals."

I gave you the benefit of the doubt here and re-watched the play. Not even close to "sauntering". In fact he busted his butt and prevented Selanne from going in on a clear cut breakaway.

He then left his position to cover the trailer because Hank was late in doing so. (I admit this may have been a tactical error, but hardly a lack of effort) It should also be noted that Samuelsson shares the blame for this because he decided to check the player that Bieksa was already covering, leaving the trailer wide open.

To blame Bieksa for this goal is to ignore glaring mistakes by both Hank and Sammy.

EDIT: In watching this replay, I see that Visnovsky was guilty of playing the puck with his hand while it was in the crease. I realize that this isn't the same as closing his hand on the puck, but I've it seen called for less....

This should save me the trouble

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I'd also like to add that Bieksa is the ONLY defenseman on the team that is +1 through 3 games, despite not scoring any points. Everyone else is 0, and Edler is -1. Sedins are the ONLY forwards that are -1, despite having 4 and 5 points each.

Hmmm... maybe it's the SEDINS who aren't playing defensively???? But noooo... they can't do any wrong... let's just blame Bieksa instead.

Jack McIlhargey was around plus 38 one year teamed the entire time with Mark Howe. So what's your point?

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Great tonight :), That Penalty you took in OT was Questionable, but no hate, you gotta give the new guys credit

Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra wow you gotta take them out to Roxys for bailing you out .

WTF? I thought beiksa was actually quite good. You guys rag on him because of the slash. If that slash doesnt happen no one rags on him. He is this years SOB.

WTF do we always need a scapegoat. Man I miss taylor pyatt he actually WAS bad.

The commentators complimented B quite a few times.

Stop drinking the Hatoraide and start watching subjectivly....

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WTF? I thought beiksa was actually quite good. You guys rag on him because of the slash. If that slash doesnt happen no one rags on him. He is this years SOB.

WTF do we always need a scapegoat. Man I miss taylor pyatt he actually WAS bad.

The commentators complimented B quite a few times.

Stop drinking the Hatoraide and start watching subjectivly....

+1

It seems like the Bieksa haters will see any flaw and blow it out of proportion. Its not that there are Bieksa haters and Bieksa lovers. Its just people who hate Bieksa because his name is Bieksa, and people who aren't subjective or biased towards the guy :shock:

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Ah....but didn't you?

Your honour I present State's evidence, marked #001

I find it interesting that, Before the season started, people were refuting my point based on bieksas +- stat, when it wasnt a good stat for them to use to show he was a good player... Now after a huge amount of games (3) He is a +1, and all of a sudden, wooooo... He cant be bad..hes plus one!!

Yes I know, you never used the plus minus stat.Never mentioned you did...

As can be seen when I quoted someone else :P

Am i not 'people' good sir?! If you prick me, do I not bleed?

I assert that I am people....i'm damn fine people. And I did refute your point regarding statistics. And now, I stand before you, here today to say that I have not statistically argued on this day......nay, I have neither 'woooooo'ed' Yet i have been excluded from the good people...my good implicitly and inherently name sullied and dragged through the cyber-mud.

I seek reparations! Justice! and an aknowledgement that I too, am of the people.....but, I am also not to be lumped into the riff raff that scoundrelously call themselves 'people' too....for I am not of their ilk, and they, sir, are no kinsman of mine!

You , sir, and your argument, sir, have been weighed, measured and found wanting!

I demand redress!

I rest my case.

:)

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It is a real shame that this board does not have any posts older than October of 2008, because it would sure be interesting to see peoples' evaluation of Bieksa's play three or four years ago.

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It is a real shame that this board does not have any posts older than October of 2008, because it would sure be interesting to see peoples' evaluation of Bieksa's play three or four years ago.

I wasn't on these boards then, but I distinctly remember my own and others' initial reactions to Bieksa's play when he was first wafted up from the farm.

Many hate Dan Russell, but when I used to listen to him, he pegged current play accurately. He called Bieksa "casual".

A friend said he seemed eager but clueless.

And I immediately thought -- here's a guy with confidence who thinks he'll be the next Orr, Bourque, or Park. Too bad he doesn;t know how to play on his own side of the red line.

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Ah....but didn't you?

Your honour I present State's evidence, marked #001

Am i not 'people' good sir?! If you prick me, do I not bleed?

I assert that I am people....i'm damn fine people. And I did refute your point regarding statistics. And now, I stand before you, here today to say that I have not statistically argued on this day......nay, I have neither 'woooooo'ed' Yet i have been excluded from the good people...my good implicitly and inherently name sullied and dragged through the cyber-mud.

I seek reparations! Justice! and an aknowledgement that I too, am of the people.....but, I am also not to be lumped into the riff raff that scoundrelously call themselves 'people' too....for I am not of their ilk, and they, sir, are no kinsman of mine!

You , sir, and your argument, sir, have been weighed, measured and found wanting!

I demand redress!

I rest my case.

:)

Redress???

O come on!

How was that? :P

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+1

It seems like the Bieksa haters will see any flaw and blow it out of proportion. Its not that there are Bieksa haters and Bieksa lovers. Its just people who hate Bieksa because his name is Bieksa, and people who aren't subjective or biased towards the guy :shock:

That's not true at all, there are both Bieksa lovers and Bieksa haters and they both have blinders on for him. There are a lot of haters in this thread that will knit pick everything he does. But there are also a lot of lovers in this thread that brushes off his mistakes, no matter how big they are.

Bieksa has made mistakes all 3 games, but he has made some really good plays all 3 games. The lovers will not say he has made mistakes or they brush off his mistakes saying "So and so made this mistake so why not rag on him" Or "Sure he made that mistake but he also did this and this and this". While the haters will just point out his mistakes, lots of them are little mistakes that change absolutely nothing and aren't a big deal.

So yes, there is Bieksa haters and lovers.

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There are definitely people who can't seem to see what's wrong with the way this guy plays defense. His gap control is just awful, he can't defend the crease to save his life, and he often seems completely unaware - of where his teammates are, where the opposing players are, where the puck is, or worst of all, whether it's a good idea to take an offensive chance at any particular point in the game (like, when we're up by a goal). He telegraphs everything he does worse than anybody else on the team. These aspects of his game are definitely below NHL caliber. He also is not a good shooter at all - his shooting percentage is consistently among the worst on the team, as is his ratio of missed shots to shots on goal. He needs his teammates to make everything easy for him. He is not really good at making a breakout pass, though he can make a tape to tape pass, he will often put the puck to where he thinks somebody will be, instead of putting it on somebody's stick, and he never seems to want to just make the easy first pass. No vision or awareness at all. He often needs his partner to throw a pick for him when he goes back to collect the puck, as Tatoes mentioned, all of this having a draining effect on the whole team. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

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Redress???

O come on!

How was that? :P

An effective rebuttal...i suppose. ;)

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