Kevin Bieksa you are really...

[Kes101]

The only difference is that the smoke monster kicked some serious ass

[Li'l Fra]

There are knowledgable hockey fans, there are knee jerk hockey fans, and there are patient hockey fans.

The "get rid of Juice" club contains plenty of all of these.

The guy is obviously a liability, otherwise 90 per cent of this board wouldn't be clamoring to trade him.

Canucks fans know what they are watching. The general consensus is Bieksa is costing us games. He has repeatedly made the kind of mistakes that should get him benched, or at the very least reduce his ice time. We've been watching him play this way for a few years and there is no mystery left. The only mystery is why don't AV and Bowness see what is so obvious to everyone else?

He hasn't taken it upon himself to improve. He's a rover, who has the green light and goes whenever he feels like it. He forces his teammates to constantly cover for him and be wary of his decision making. His comments in the press prove that he has no idea what his weaknesses are. How can he improve if he does no self analysis?

His time has come, and the sooner we move him the better.

[sQuish]

He made some pretty little (smart and safe) dangles our from behind our net a couple times in these early games. He's also eating the puck into the boards and absorbing hits in the face of inevitable hits and preventing coughing up the puck. There have been plenty of quick intelligent passes and COUNTLESS examples of commitment to get back, to get himself involved, and to be the change he wants to be (hustling back on plays, giving options in trailers and back passes)...

I could be wrong though. Could you give me some examples or reasoning as to why his play has not been defensively sound?

+1

That's just it, all these Bieksa bashers ever say is "He's a bum! He sucks! He's a useless idiot!" and never actually give any examples as to why he is so bad. According to them, Bieksa isn't even an NHL caliber defensemen. I am dumbfounded as to how these people come to such irrational conclusions. Are they sitting there in front of their TV just waiting to focus in on Bieksa's every mistake; while completely turning a blind eye to all of the good plays he makes? Do they have some inner mechanism that forces them to blame every Vancouver loss on one player, to make them feel better? It HAS to be somebody's fault, right? It truly is remarkable the absurdity of some of these so called Canucks "fans'" thought processes and ridiculously biased observation skills.

I'm not here to say Bieksa is perfect, or even a top 50 d-man in the league. Every player on every team makes mistakes that cost the team. That's hockey. But never does a loss ever result from ONE player. The Bieksa bashers somehow think otherwise.

[لني]

Lil Fra, you a Lil Retarded.

There are knowledgable hockey fans, there are knee jerk hockey fans, and there are patient hockey fans.

The "get rid of Juice" club contains plenty of all of these.

The guy is obviously a liability, otherwise 90 per cent of this board wouldn't be clamoring to trade him.

Canucks fans know what they are watching. The general consensus is Bieksa is costing us games. He has repeatedly made the kind of mistakes that should get him benched, or at the very least reduce his ice time. We've been watching him play this way for a few years and there is no mystery left. The only mystery is why don't AV and Bowness see what is so obvious to everyone else?

He hasn't taken it upon himself to improve. He's a rover, who has the green light and goes whenever he feels like it. He forces his teammates to constantly cover for him and be wary of his decision making. His comments in the press prove that he has no idea what his weaknesses are. How can he improve if he does no self analysis?

His time has come, and the sooner we move him the better.

[sQuish]

There are knowledgable hockey fans, there are knee jerk hockey fans, and there are patient hockey fans.

The "get rid of Juice" club contains plenty of all of these.

The guy is obviously a liability, otherwise 90 per cent of this board wouldn't be clamoring to trade him.

Canucks fans know what they are watching. The general consensus is Bieksa is costing us games. He has repeatedly made the kind of mistakes that should get him benched, or at the very least reduce his ice time. We've been watching him play this way for a few years and there is no mystery left. The only mystery is why don't AV and Bowness see what is so obvious to everyone else?

He hasn't taken it upon himself to improve. He's a rover, who has the green light and goes whenever he feels like it. He forces his teammates to constantly cover for him and be wary of his decision making. His comments in the press prove that he has no idea what his weaknesses are. How can he improve if he does no self analysis?

His time has come, and the sooner we move him the better.

Everyone else is certainly a stretch. If you go into the Game Day threads or the Post Game threads, rarely do you see a clamoring of hate towards Bieksa. It's only in THESE threads that all of you Bieksa haters come out to play. Every season there's a Bieksa hate thread and it's always full of the same retards (e.g. Tatoes).

Do you honestly think that you are a majority of all fans? Do you think that somehow you are observing something that the coaching staff and Gillis is missing? For some reason I trust their opinion oodles more than a bunch of Bieksa haters on an internet forum. They just might be a better judge of talent than you.

[Li'l Fra]

Lonny Bohonos and sQuish you two jerks are the problem with this board.

You can't let people have an opinion then espouse your own. Instead you resort to name calling instead of providing any kind of insight at all.

My opinion is my opinion and it doesn't make me "retarded". Which by the way is a competely offensive thing to say, let alone put in writing. But a couple of boobs like you wouldn't understand that would you?

Just like you can't understand why knowledgable Canuck fans have been calling for Bieksa's head for a few years.

By the way, I'm not a Bieksa hater. I want to like Bieksa. I try to like Bieksa. However, his abilities vs his salary are way out of whack. He is mistake prone and overpaid. He considers it his right to be a rover and has no defensive accountability. His play has been a large part of why we were bouced out of the playoffs three years running.

If Bieksa starts to play better, and use his head more, I'll be the first to welcome him back into the fold. But, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend he's all that and a glass of Juice.

Are you denying that a ton of fans and a large part of the media have been highly critical of Bieksa's play?

If that's the case, then you are the one's who are mentally challenged.

[marinated.pea]

There are knowledgable hockey fans, there are knee jerk hockey fans, and there are patient hockey fans.

The "get rid of Juice" club contains plenty of all of these.

The guy is obviously a liability, otherwise 90 per cent of this board wouldn't be clamoring to trade him.

Canucks fans know what they are watching. The general consensus is Bieksa is costing us games. He has repeatedly made the kind of mistakes that should get him benched, or at the very least reduce his ice time. We've been watching him play this way for a few years and there is no mystery left. The only mystery is why don't AV and Bowness see what is so obvious to everyone else?

He hasn't taken it upon himself to improve. He's a rover, who has the green light and goes whenever he feels like it. He forces his teammates to constantly cover for him and be wary of his decision making. His comments in the press prove that he has no idea what his weaknesses are. How can he improve if he does no self analysis?

His time has come, and the sooner we move him the better.

Glaring overstatement if you've seen one

One: I highly doubt 90% of everyone here is clamouring for Bieksa's departure. There have been a generous amount of fans defending hi. Besides, 50% of CDC change their opinions by game and 20% of these boards are probably inactive now anyways. Numbers are a tricky thing.

Two: So just because a "majority" of CDC wants Bieksa gone, that makes it valid hockey knowledge? We're talking CDC here, the most irrational, overreactive bunch of fans all clammed up into one hockey forum. And CDC tends to fall under the mob mentality; if a bunch of people feel this way, they're probably right and we should agree with them. Canucks fans may know what they are watching, but a large part of CDC doesn't.

Let's remember that these message boards here are only a small fraction of the Canucks fan populace. There are probably better hockey minds out there than you and me who don't need to waste their time posting on a message board.

Look, no one is saying Bieksa is God's gift to mankind. No one is fully pardoning his mistakes. Nor are many of us saying that he's the best d-man on the roster. But to pin losses on solely his play is foolish, just like it's foolish to pin losses on any one individual on this team. Especially when Bieksa's play has steadily improved from the past couple of years and it's frustrating that some fans fail to see that because they're so blinded by their hatred of #3.

[لني]

Lil Fra, Lil retarded.

Glaring overstatement if you've seen one

One: I highly doubt 90% of everyone here is clamouring for Bieksa's departure. There have been a generous amount of fans defending hi. Besides, 50% of CDC change their opinions by game and 20% of these boards are probably inactive now anyways. Numbers are a tricky thing.

Two: So just because a "majority" of CDC wants Bieksa gone, that makes it valid hockey knowledge? We're talking CDC here, the most irrational, overreactive bunch of fans all clammed up into one hockey forum. And CDC tends to fall under the mob mentality; if a bunch of people feel this way, they're probably right and we should agree with them. Canucks fans may know what they are watching, but a large part of CDC doesn't.

Let's remember that these message boards here are only a small fraction of the Canucks fan populace. There are probably better hockey minds out there than you and me who don't need to waste their time posting on a message board.

Look, no one is saying Bieksa is God's gift to mankind. No one is fully pardoning his mistakes. Nor are many of us saying that he's the best d-man on the roster. But to pin losses on solely his play is foolish, just like it's foolish to pin losses on any one individual on this team. Especially when Bieksa's play has steadily improved from the past couple of years and it's frustrating that some fans fail to see that because they're so blinded by their hatred of #3.

[marinated.pea]

Lil Fra, Lil retarded.

There's no need to call names

I understand how both sides can get frustrated but all validity in your hockey argument is lost when you resort to personal insults.

[wallstreetamigo]

Everyone else is certainly a stretch. If you go into the Game Day threads or the Post Game threads, rarely do you see a clamoring of hate towards Bieksa. It's only in THESE threads that all of you Bieksa haters come out to play. Every season there's a Bieksa hate thread and it's always full of the same retards (e.g. Tatoes).

Do you honestly think that you are a majority of all fans? Do you think that somehow you are observing something that the coaching staff and Gillis is missing? For some reason I trust their opinion oodles more than a bunch of Bieksa haters on an internet forum. They just might be a better judge of talent than you.

I love when Bieksa supporters make the argument that the fact he is still here means he is considered a great D man by the management and coaching staff. That certainly COULD be true, but it is not a foregone conclusion. You dont know what Gillis thinks or feels about Bieksa any more than anyone else does.

There are many possible reasons that Bieksa is still here, even if behind the scenes Gillis would rather he not be. The lack of a trade acceptable to MG or Sami Salo and the uncertainty of his injury status for instance.

You guys try to sound smart but claiming that you know how MG and AV are evaluating the players they have just makes you look uninformed. Maybe they do think he is a great D man, but maybe they dont and have to be in the right position to get rid of him. None of us know that for sure.

What we do know is that, as fans, we can see that he is not working to actually improve his game. He said himself that he is not going to change his game at all. Compare that to Hamhuis, who in an article in the Province yesterday said that constant self analysis and asking what you can do differently and better is the only way to improve. Bieksa makes the same mistakes over and over, rather than actually learning from them and improving.

Bieksa knows he is entitled to a spot for now, and he plays like it. When Salo comes back, it will be too late or him to suddenly work harder and earn his spot.

Salo = way better winning percentage and more steady play.

Bieksa = adventure and defensive breakdowns galore, not to mention losing a lot more winnable games for some reason. Not his fault per se, but obviously more than just a coincidence.

[Li'l Fra]

Glaring overstatement if you've seen one

One: I highly doubt 90% of everyone here is clamouring for Bieksa's departure. There have been a generous amount of fans defending hi. Besides, 50% of CDC change their opinions by game and 20% of these boards are probably inactive now anyways. Numbers are a tricky thing.

Two: So just because a "majority" of CDC wants Bieksa gone, that makes it valid hockey knowledge? We're talking CDC here, the most irrational, overreactive bunch of fans all clammed up into one hockey forum. And CDC tends to fall under the mob mentality; if a bunch of people feel this way, they're probably right and we should agree with them. Canucks fans may know what they are watching, but a large part of CDC doesn't.

Let's remember that these message boards here are only a small fraction of the Canucks fan populace. There are probably better hockey minds out there than you and me who don't need to waste their time posting on a message board.

Look, no one is saying Bieksa is God's gift to mankind. No one is fully pardoning his mistakes. Nor are many of us saying that he's the best d-man on the roster. But to pin losses on solely his play is foolish, just like it's foolish to pin losses on any one individual on this team. Especially when Bieksa's play has steadily improved from the past couple of years and it's frustrating that some fans fail to see that because they're so blinded by their hatred of #3.

Great post. Now that's how you refute a glaring exaggeration. I have a tendency to overstate my case occasionally.

The article on Hamhuis just made me think how disappointed I am that Bieksa doesn't appear to be trying to get better. His comments to the press just show that he is barely aware of the issues with his game. I don't understand how or why the coaching staff isn't helping or able to help Bieksa to become a better player.

Everyone needs to be accountable. Bieksa is a defenceman, not a rover, since that postition no longer exists. He can't just pinch whenever he feels like it. His understanding of the game needs to improve so he can better limit his mistakes.

[لني]

There is no argument. That is the issue.

Unless of course you are suggesting 3 games into the season, and a 1-1-1 record means it's time

to worry about how or team and players are playing?

There's no need to call names

I understand how both sides can get frustrated but all validity in your hockey argument is lost when you resort to personal insults.

[Li'l Fra]

Lonny Bohonos, I should know better than to get hooked by a troll who's obviously fishing. I find you entirely offensive, but I guess that's your game.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

Who thought we would get anything for the OBrian trade, hense Parent who would of thunk it.

WTF?

Where's Parent right now?

I have to assume this was a response to what would we get for trading Bieksa comments. Funny your response is to bring up a player who is so important that he was traded away just for the opportunity to talk to another player. That's a scenario where literally a bag of pucks would have been better.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

Lonny Bohonos and sQuish you two jerks are the problem with this board.

You can't let people have an opinion then espouse your own. Instead you resort to name calling instead of providing any kind of insight at all.

My opinion is my opinion and it doesn't make me "retarded". Which by the way is a competely offensive thing to say, let alone put in writing. But a couple of boobs like you wouldn't understand that would you?

Just like you can't understand why knowledgable Canuck fans have been calling for Bieksa's head for a few years.

By the way, I'm not a Bieksa hater. I want to like Bieksa. I try to like Bieksa. However, his abilities vs his salary are way out of whack. He is mistake prone and overpaid. He considers it his right to be a rover and has no defensive accountability. His play has been a large part of why we were bouced out of the playoffs three years running.

If Bieksa starts to play better, and use his head more, I'll be the first to welcome him back into the fold. But, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend he's all that and a glass of Juice.

Are you denying that a ton of fans and a large part of the media have been highly critical of Bieksa's play?

If that's the case, then you are the one's who are mentally challenged.

Sounds kind of the like the opposite is also true from what I'm reading. Pot and Kettle thing going on here Fra. Granted that kettle took it to a much more obvious level.

[Clark Kent]

Haters can...

[marinated.pea]

Great post. Now that's how you refute a glaring exaggeration. I have a tendency to overstate my case occasionally.

The article on Hamhuis just made me think how disappointed I am that Bieksa doesn't appear to be trying to get better. His comments to the press just show that he is barely aware of the issues with his game. I don't understand how or why the coaching staff isn't helping or able to help Bieksa to become a better player.

Everyone needs to be accountable. Bieksa is a defenceman, not a rover, since that postition no longer exists. He can't just pinch whenever he feels like it. His understanding of the game needs to improve so he can better limit his mistakes.

Media coverage is tricky. The fact is we, the public, have no real idea what goes on behind closed doors. I try not to base my opinions on interviews done by the media because firstly, there will always be a bias there and secondly, the media knows who they're writing to.

I tend to try to think the best of everyone (that may be a flaw) and to state that Bieksa isn't aware of the holes in his game is a large gesture. There's indeed a chance that he isn't aware of his own mistakes. Sure. But from what I've seen, he's been much stronger on the puck, much more aggressive on the backcheck, and much more offensive from when we've seen him from before. I don't think he simply pinches whenever he wants to; he's able to read the plays well and I've yet to see a good example of when he's pinched and it resulted in a goals against. All this tells me that he's been tremendously working hard on his game over the summer and has tried to improve from last year. And from the three games he's played so far, I think he's done just that. I'm surely not implying that his work is done, there is a lot more he can work on, but many fans fail to acknowledge his improvements as well.

These "mistakes" that everyone is referring to behoove me, to be honest, because everyone against #3 seem to think that he makes tens of millions of mistakes per game. I tend to think that he was one of our better defencemen last game. He took that stupid slashing penalty that cost a goal, and from that I can see why fans would jump on him, but taking a slashing penalty does not automatically make him unaware of the game of hockey. Sticks break left and right, and while this is not an excuse or a finger-pointing at the refs, just because he broke a stick trying to get to the puck doesn't mean he doesn't understand the game.

Again, taking the penalty was a mistake, but the scale doesn't balance out. I saw much more good things out of his game than bad.

[لني]

Lonny Bohonos, I should know better than to get hooked by a troll who's obviously fishing. I find you entirely offensive, but I guess that's your game.

I have no issue with being "entirely offensive" when it comes to dip craps.

[Sharpshooter]

I just hope he finds his game fast. As annoying as it is to watch him compromise our ability to win (through some of his bad penalties), Captain Henrik has faith and that is good enough for me.

There is a lot of pressure for him to preform (and rightfully so), and I have faith that he will prove worthy.

Just my opinion. (ps. this is my first post--so hello CDC world, it's nice to be here)

Well, let me be the first one to say hello and welcome you here. It's nice to have you.

A good first post as well.

[Li'l Fra]

Sounds kind of the like the opposite is also true from what I'm reading. Pot and Kettle thing going on here Fra. Granted that kettle took it to a much more obvious level.

I suppose the same could be said for your post as well, since it's just a veiled insult. If you go back a page you'll see that I simply got my hackles up after being called retarded first thing in the morning.

Pot, kettle, pot, kettle, and on it goes.

I should have known better than to get involved in all this.

Is it not even safe to take a shot at Bieksa anymore? What is CDC coming to? lol