Two teenage boys used texting, online chats to plot brutal assault, murder of Kimberly Proctor

[JAH]

[kyledude]

That's pretty brutal.

How do psychopaths slip through the cracks of the education system unnoticed for so long? Do they just never go to class, or is there something wrong with the people who "teach" our children? This torture/death could have easily been prevented if someone, somewhere, had any sort of awareness.

[JAH]

That's pretty brutal.

How do psychopaths slip through the cracks of the education system unnoticed for so long? Do they just never go to class, or is there something wrong with the people who "teach" our children? This torture/death could have easily been prevented if someone, somewhere, had any sort of awareness.

[aGENT]

Quoted for it's irony.

[JAH]

I hope you do realize that was on purpose....

[Perfect From Now On]

Robert Pickton how long did he get away with it for? How many women did he kill before he got caught, give your head a shake.

[JAH]

pickton was killing random people with absolutely no connection to him, making investigation much more difficult. If you kill someone you have a connection to, then getting away with murder is not very easy

[suolucidir]

That's pretty brutal.

How do psychopaths slip through the cracks of the education system unnoticed for so long? Do they just never go to class, or is there something wrong with the people who "teach" our children? This torture/death could have easily been prevented if someone, somewhere, had any sort of awareness.

[Down by the River]

Some updates on this case. Here is the letter to the court from the youngest of the two accused:

My Lordship,

I originally intended to write this letter to humanize the man who will be deciding the rest of my life. Yet, the more I thought about it, the more selfish it seemed. I think I was fooling myself. I did not want to believe I am entirely powerless at this point. I couldn't admit I was afraid of what is to come after sentencing. I was desperately clinging to the hope that there was something I could do to get out of this ordeal, that maybe it was a bad dream. I've thought a lot about it though and it seems I've been misunderstanding hope. Deep down, what I really hope for is that whatever happens will be in the best interests of everyone. The hope that I can make the very best of what I have been given. I truly wish it didn't take this tragedy for me to realize the truth.

It's been everything I can do to put off writing this letter. This is the first time in my life that I have found words insufficient to describe the situation. I couldn't find the right words to express how I feel. Even now, I have little confidence in what I am writing. To me it seems easier to ignore it than acknowledge what I have sown for myself.

I am under the impression there is not too much optimism I will change. The matter, what I know, is in my heart. It will mean nothing to the experts. It is frustrating not being able to express the truth you know and even more so when you try and are not believed. That's why I will prove them wrong. If you give me an inch, I won't take a mile. I will take every opportunity to show that nothing like this will ever happen again. Somehow I allowed my own self-destruction to take a complete innocent down. I spiralled out of control and now that I've hit rock bottom, there's only one direction for me to go. I can't possibly imagine how I will be able to continue my life after what I have done, though I am praying I will find the tools I need to make a difference.

Yet, I will never be able to give back to this planet, that which I took. I am deeply sorry for what I have done and I take full responsibility for my part in the murder of Kimberly. I doubt I have the means to pay restitution to her family.

As a child, I hated my father for what he had done. I felt I was less than him and now I find I have become a worse man. If you told me 10 years ago that I would commit one of the worst murders in British Columbia, I would not have believed you.

There is one thing I would like to request My Lord. I feel it is exceedingly important that we prove that what is disclosed to the media during sentencing is in the best interests of my family, the [co-accused's] family and the Proctor family. I also plan to write a letter to the Proctors, but to avoid seeming opportunistic, I will write to them after sentencing. However, from what I have heard, they harbour no desire to hear from me. Regardless, I will make it available should they change their minds.

I don't know how to end this.

[Dazzle]

Some updates on this case. Here is the letter to the court from the youngest of the two accused:

Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz1I8ZLyBV4

Assessment from psychologists and psychiatrists regarding future rehabilitation:

Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz1I8ZgKxfa

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

No doubt, that younger kid is intellectually very bright. His writing is flawless, and expresses his ideas clearly. In this letter, he shows remorse, but according to the experts, he has expressed 'remorse' before in the past, which was believed to be dubious.

I think the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" get thrown around like frisbees. There are so many different kinds of sociopaths, and not all have the ready capacity to engage in murder.

Sociopaths =/= automatic murderer.

It would be interesting to chat with these people though, and see what their mindset is like.

I should maybe have gone into psychiatry.

[Down by the River]

No doubt, that younger kid is intellectually very bright. His writing is flawless, and expresses his ideas clearly. In this letter, he shows remorse, but according to the experts, he has expressed 'remorse' before in the past, which was believed to be dubious.

I think the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" get thrown around like frisbees. There are so many different kinds of sociopaths, and not all have the ready capacity to engage in murder.

Sociopaths =/= automatic murderer.

It would be interesting to chat with these people though, and see what their mindset is like.

I should maybe have gone into psychiatry.

[Dazzle]

Actually, the term sociopathy is no longer used. It has been replaced with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Furthermore, while psychopathy may be thrown around in the media, in court, it is a term that is not used lightly. It is likely that both were rated on the PCL-YV (a modification of the PCL-R, which was created by Robert Hare, from UBC's psych department). They probably received scores which warranted their title as psychopaths.

[Pure Class]

No doubt, that younger kid is intellectually very bright. His writing is flawless, and expresses his ideas clearly. In this letter, he shows remorse, but according to the experts, he has expressed 'remorse' before in the past, which was believed to be dubious.

I think the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" get thrown around like frisbees. There are so many different kinds of sociopaths, and not all have the ready capacity to engage in murder.

Sociopaths =/= automatic murderer.

It would be interesting to chat with these people though, and see what their mindset is like.

I should maybe have gone into psychiatry.

[Dazzle]

do you honestly believe that letter was written by a 16 year old?

[Down by the River]

do you honestly believe that letter was written by a 16 year old?

[Wetcoaster]

Do you honestly believe someone else would write it for him?

[Pure Class]

Of course, his defence counsel.

[Wetcoaster]

According to reports defence counsel are not opposing adult sentences being imposed on the two teens who have pleaded guilty to first degree murder. Crown Counsel has recommended that Justice Robert Johnston lift the publication ban on their identities.

If an adult sentence is imposed it will be life imprisonment but there will be parole eligibility after 10 years (as opposed to the usual 25 years for an adult offender). However given the psychiatric reports neither of these two can be expected to ever be released from prison.

Court-ordered psychiatric and psychological reports on the teens — who were 16 and 17 at the time of the murder last March, and who are now 17 and 18 — show there is little chance they can be rehabilitated, Crown prosecutor Peter Juk told the court. He urged Justice Robert Johnston to impose adult sentences to protect the public.

Defence lawyers Robert Jones, who is representing the 17-year-old, and Steven Kelliher, who is representing the 18-year-old, did not oppose the Crown's application for an adult sentence.

Johnston will deliver his judgment Monday.

...

Juk urged Johnston to lift the publication ban on the identities of the youths.

"They should be known for what they have done. There's no evidence it will harm them unduly. It might also help them understand their responsibility."

If the youths are sentenced as adults, they will receive a mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole for 10 years. If they are sentenced as youths, they will receive a 10-year sentence, consisting of a maximum of six years in custody and the remaining four years to be served in the community under conditional supervision.

Johnston must also decide where the youths will serve their time.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Teen+killers+high+risk+rape+murder+again+trial+hears/4524789/story.html#ixzz1I9aShue1

[Evolution10]

Just read the article.. that is honestly the MOST SCREWED UP THING EVER. Who the hell would do crap like this?

And one of the guys said they didn't feel bad? WTF.