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Two teenage boys used texting, online chats to plot brutal assault, murder of Kimberly Proctor


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#241 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 04:54 PM

Unless they get paroled while they are still alive. They are eligible for it in ten years. What if in ten years they have turned their lives around and adressed their mental problems?

There's a chance they will get out someday. And they will be alive. If it was a true life sentance there wouldn't be parole hearings, the only way to leave would be in a casket!

Much like you can pay attention and be legally negiligent you can have a legal life sentance and still get out before you die. Tossing around the legal term means absolutely nothing since they can very well indeed (even it's rare it still happens) be released while still alive even under this so called "life" sentance.


Have they or have they not? If they have addressed their mental problems, then they've addressed their mental problems, right? But if they're still crazy, they're still crazy!

#242 ronthecivil

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 04:57 PM

Have they or have they not? If they have addressed their mental problems, then they've addressed their mental problems, right? But if they're still crazy, they're still crazy!



What if according to some report 20 years from now they aren't?

Regardless there have been people with life sentances that have been released so clearly it's a "life" sentance. If you don't follow through on something to the end it's simply a hollow word........

#243 ManUtd

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:18 PM

Unless they get paroled while they are still alive. They are eligible for it in ten years. What if in ten years they have turned their lives around and adressed their mental problems?

There's a chance they will get out someday. And they will be alive. If it was a true life sentance there wouldn't be parole hearings, the only way to leave would be in a casket!

Much like you can pay attention and be legally negiligent you can have a legal life sentance and still get out before you die. Tossing around the legal term means absolutely nothing since they can very well indeed (even it's rare it still happens) be released while still alive even under this so called "life" sentance.


That's about as likely as someone walking up to my front door and handing me a million dollars.

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#244 ronthecivil

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:21 PM

That's about as likely as someone walking up to my front door and handing me a million dollars.



It's unlikely but I would just as soon the odds be zero.......

People with life sentances do get released.

#245 Wetcoaster

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 06:42 PM

It's unlikely but I would just as soon the odds be zero.......

People with life sentances do get released.

Not in these circumstances.
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#246 Down by the River

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:55 PM

Unless they get paroled while they are still alive. They are eligible for it in ten years. What if in ten years they have turned their lives around and adressed their mental problems?

There's a chance they will get out someday. And they will be alive. If it was a true life sentance there wouldn't be parole hearings, the only way to leave would be in a casket!

Much like you can pay attention and be legally negiligent you can have a legal life sentance and still get out before you die. Tossing around the legal term means absolutely nothing since they can very well indeed (even it's rare it still happens) be released while still alive even under this so called "life" sentance.


They will not address their mental health problems because they cannot address their health problems. As a personality disorder, psychopathy is not treatable. In fact, treatment of psychopaths may have a negative effect because they learn paroting behaviours (such as the ability to express remorse without actually feeling remorse. There is going to be no turn around for these youth. This isn't a prediction or a guess. This is the meaning of psychopathy.

OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#247 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:21 AM

The court has now released much of the video and and audio evidence tendered at the trial and sentencing of the two murderers and the psychopathy is clearly evident. Mr. Justice Johnston agreed with psychiatric and psychological reports that were submitted as evidence last week describing Mr. Wellwood and Mr. Moffat as psychopaths and sexual sadists with strong antisocial tendencies.

“The circumstances of this case are so horrific that words can not adequately convey the inhuman cruelty these young men showed toward Ms. Proctor,” Judge Johnston said.

As the two were interrogated each tried to minimize their part in the crime, blaming the other. Mr. Justice Johnston ruled both teens were full and active participants in the murder.


"But their degree of responsibility is not so clear. This is because as time passed, each of these young men has tended to minimize his participation and point to the other as being more responsible. It's not really possible to sort out the truth here."


Here are the various video, audio and transcript evidence with links from the Vancouver Sun. WARNING -some of the material is graphic and disturbing.

Police Interrogation Video Part 1 - Cameron Moffat evades questions from the officers about his role in the rape and murder, saying he doesn't know how Kimberly Proctor died.
http://www.vancouver...0166/story.html

Transcript of Cameron Moffat Police Interrogation Video Part 1
http://www.timescolo...df/Moffat-1.pdf

Police Interrogation Video Part 2 - Cameron Moffat is asked why Kimberly Proctor’s body was burned
http://www.vancouver...9990/story.html

Transcript of Cameron Moffat Police Interrogation Video Part 2
http://www.timescolo...df/Moffat-2.pdf

Police Interrogation Video Part 3 - RCMP ask Cameron Moffat about his role in forcible confinement
http://www.vancouver...0613/story.html

Transcript of Cameron Moffat Police Interrogation Video Part 3
http://www.timescolo...df/Moffat-3.pdf

Police Interrogation Video Part 4 - RCMP ask Cameron Moffat about events leading up to the sexual assault
http://www.vancouver...1057/story.html

Transcript of Cameron Moffat Police Interrogation Video Part 4
http://www.timescolo...df/Moffat-4.pdf

Police Interrogation Video Part 5 - Moffat says the attack was disturbing, but refuses to explain what happened.
http://www.vancouver...1140/story.html

Transcript of Cameron Moffat Police Interrogation Video Part 5
http://www.timescolo...df/Moffat-5.pdf

Transcripts and audio recordings of teen killers' in a sheriff's van
http://www.vancouver...8257/story.html


'We should do it again': Cameron Alexander Moffat wrote in an online chat message released to the media on Wednesday.

One of the teens convicted of raping and killing 18-year-old Kimberly Proctor sent his friend a note a week after the murder suggesting they find another victim.

"So since we killed that b—- and it wasn't to [sic] hard we should do it again!" wrote Cameron Alexander Moffat in an online chat message released to the media on Wednesday.

Moffat, 18, and Kruse Hendrik Wellwood, 17, were sentenced to life in prison in Victoria Monday after pleading guilty to first-degree murder in October.

The chat messages, part of the evidence gathered by RCMP major crime investigators, were released Wednesday along with a videotape of Moffat's interview with police.

In the interview, Moffat tried to downplay his role in the attack — where the Victoria-area teen was tied up, gagged, sexually assaulted, beaten, suffocated and mutilated with a knife over a period of several hours. They then burned her body.

Last June, in an RCMP interrogation room, Moffat tried to shift much of the blame for the horrific crime to Wellwood.

Though bigger and stronger, Moffat implied that he was under the younger boy's control, following his orders to tie up and rape their victim.

Kruse "was instructing me to do it repeatedly," Moffat told RCMP interrogator Sgt. Martin D'Anjou in a calm voice.

"And, you know at one point he like, shuts me in his room with her and he's like, 'Do it,' and I'm like, 'I'm not' . . . And eventually he's just like screaming and stuff and won't even close the door."

Moffat said after he raped Proctor, he went into the living room and watched TV, trying to think of nothing.

There are some details he doesn't give up, saying they're too disgusting to verbalize.

Moffat described Wellwood as nuts, and D'Anjou asked: "So do you think Kruse has lost it by this time?"

Moffat responded: "I'd bloody well lost it, like, I don't know what the hell's going on."

But the online chats in the hours before the killing suggest that Moffat knew full well what to expect. The boys discussed their murder plans in detail, describing how they intended to lure her to Wellwood's home, kill her and then dispose of the body. They even drew up a map of possible places to leave her body, circling remote areas northwest of the Victoria suburb of Langford, although they'd end up choosing a spot beneath a bridge on the Galloping Goose Trial.

"I'm going to rip her nose ring out and burn it," Wellwood wrote at one point. "Burn her flesh."

"Try and get her early," Moffat replied.

Later, Moffat said, "I want to get it done. I don't want to wait."

"I'm not killing her right away," Wellwood replied.

RCMP investigators used the boys' text and online chat conversations to help get a confession from Moffat, posting them on a large white board in the interview room. They also told Moffat about the DNA evidence they had linking him to the crime.

"You guys know pretty much anything that'll fall on me," Moffat said.

"OK, so why is it that you won't talk about that?" the RCMP interviewer asked.

"Because I'm not ready to talk about it," Moffat said. "It's not that I'm trying to, y'know, keep you guys from anything that would incriminate me. You already know . . . about sexual assault because my DNA is there."

Later he said: "I expect these charges to stick."

Though he started out the interview refusing to shed light on what exactly happened, Moffat eventually disclosed many of the details of the crime, while trying to minimize his own involvement.

Over the course of nine hours, the officers lead Moffat to reveal in increasing detail the attack.

"So how does that attack part start then?" D'Anjou asked.

"Kruse," Moffat said.

A few minutes later: "Kruse is obviously big enough and capable enough to keep things under control and that's just where I'm yelled at even though I'm just standing there, y'know, shock and awe, mouth open, what the f—."

Moffat eventually opens up about his mental health, telling D'Anjou that he was diagnosed a manic depressive a few years ago. He said when the medication didn't work he tried to do a self "cleanse" to control his emotions.

"Yesterday, you weren't here for this but um, I could keep a smile on my face. They said, it's not normal that you're not shedding tears . . . And it's because I have that control over myself now," he told D'Anjou. "So it's not that I don't feel remorse or uh, extremely horrible for what happened, it's just . . . I don't want to, y'know, show the emotion. I don't wanna have to feel all that bad stuff so I'm just trying to keep it in check."

In his decision on Monday, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Robert Johnston concluded both teens were full and active participants in the murder.

"But their degree of responsibility is not so clear. This is because as time passed, each of these young men has tended to minimize his participation and point to the other as being more responsible," Johnston said. "It's not really possible to sort out the truth here."

http://www.timescolonist.com/should+again+teen+killer+planned+second+attack/4571991/story.html#ixzz1IrFNxcYN
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#248 J.R.

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:30 AM

Freaking disturbing.

I can't even fathom the depth of despair, terror and sadness of her last moments or indeed what her parents must feel now hearing how their daughter was treated and the callous manner in which they describe it.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to cope with this level of inhuman treatment if it were my daughter. I hope her parents are getting the best treatment available to help cope with the loss and unrelenting mix of emotions they must be going through.
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#249 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:41 AM

Freaking disturbing.

I can't even fathom the depth of despair, terror and sadness of her last moments or indeed what her parents must feel now hearing how their daughter was treated and the callous manner in which they describe it.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to cope with this level of inhuman treatment if it were my daughter. I hope her parents are getting the best treatment available to help cope with the loss and unrelenting mix of emotions they must be going through.

Fred Proctor, Kimberly's father, described the two murderers as "monsters" and the embodiment of "pure evil".

It is hard to disagree with him.

In response to a reporter’s question, Mr. Proctor said the killers “deserve to die a long, slow, horrific and painful death” like the one they inflicted on his daughter.

Her mother Lucia Proctor said when a child commits such a heinous crime, “as a parent, you’ve failed, as far as I’m concerned.”
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#250 J.R.

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:50 AM

Fred Proctor, Kimberly's father, described the two murderers as "monsters" and the embodiment of "pure evil".

It is hard to disagree with him.

In response to a reporter's question, Mr. Proctor said the killers "deserve to die a long, slow, horrific and painful death" like the one they inflicted on his daughter.

Her mother Lucia Proctor said when a child commits such a heinous crime, "as a parent, you've failed, as far as I'm concerned."


Wet, do you know, does the government pay for therapy/counseling in these situations? IMO they need and deserve all the support they can get and a safe place to work through their understandable anger, grief etc.
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#251 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 11:08 AM

Wet, do you know, does the government pay for therapy/counseling in these situations? IMO they need and deserve all the support they can get and a safe place to work through their understandable anger, grief etc.

There are programs and resources available.

The BC Ministry of Public Safety and the Solicitor General has a department dealing with Victim Services and there are victim assistance workers available to help:

Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General

Victims and Witnesses of Crime and Violence

Help is available if you have been impacted by crime or violence.

Being a victim or witness to crime, violence or abuse is a role no one is prepared for and not everyone will respond the same way to the same crime. As well, immediate family members of crime victims can experience loss and psychological harm.

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/victimservices/index.htm

Her parents and other immediate family would be eligible for these sorts of benefits:

IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS OF A VICTIM

Immediate family members of an injured or deceased victim of crime may be eligible for the following benefits:

* counselling services or expenses
* vocational services or expenses
* income support for dependent family members of a deceased victim
* loss of parental guidance for a minor child
* prescription drug expenses
* funeral expenses
* transportation and related expenses
* earnings loss due to bereavement leave

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/victimservices/affect-you/family-members.htm

Here are details of the financial assistance and other benefits available through the Crime Victim Assistance Program:
http://www.pssg.gov....ncial/index.htm

Resources include VictimLink BC:

VictimLink BC is a toll-free, confidential telephone service available across BC and Yukon 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at 1-800-563-0808. It provides information and referral services to all victims of crime and immediate crisis support to victims of family and sexual violence.

VictimLink BC provides service in over 110 languages, including 17 North American aboriginal languages. In 2008-2009, the Help line responded to 10,548 enquiries.

VictimLink BC is TTY accessible. Call TTY at 604-875-0885; to call collect, please call the Telus Relay Service at 711. Text at 604-836-6381. Email VictimLinkBC@bc211.ca

Victim service workers can provide information and referrals to all victims of crime and crisis support to victims. Even if you’re not sure if you have been a victim of crime, you can call VictimLink BC at 1-800-563-0808 for assistance. Your call will be completely confidential. VictimLink BC staff can connect people to a network of community, social, health, justice and government resources, including victim services, transition houses, and counselling resources. They also provide information on the justice system, relevant federal and provincial legislation and programs, crime prevention, safety planning, protection order registry, and other resources as needed.

Any time of the day or night, every day of the year, VictimLink BC is as close as your phone or the Internet and can provide you confidential support and information you can trust.

If you require assistance, or if you just want to talk to someone, please call VictimLink BC at 1-800-563-0808.

http://www.victimlinkbc.ca/

Also:

RCMP Victim/Witness Services
Creston, B.C.
Telephone: (250) 428-9313
Provides free services to Victims, Secondary Victims and Witnesses of Crime. Will also provide referrals to other agencies across the province. Questions? Call the victim information line at 1-800-563-0808.

BC Association of Specialized Victim Assistance and Counselling Programs
A voice for survivors of violence and the community-based services that support them. They have created a strong communication network among Sexual Assault Centres, Woman Assault Centres, Specialized Victim Assistance programs and Stopping the Violence Counselling programs across BC
728-602 West Hastings Street
Vancouver BC V6B 1P2
Telephone: (604) 633-2506
Fax: (604) 633-2507
http://www.endingviolence.org/
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#252 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 11:18 AM

Ian Mulgrew writes that there were warning signs prior to gruesome murder that the two teens showed indications they could be dangerous long before killing Kimberly Proctor.

With the conviction of 18-year-old Kimberly Proctor’s killer classmates, the nature-or-nurture question again is on everyone’s lips.

Are monsters such as these two young men bad seeds, genetically damaged individuals born bent, predisposed to commit these horrific crimes?

Or, are they created by neglect, abuse, an absence of supervision, a failure of education and a lack of social-service intervention until they shock and awe with depravity?

As Proctor’s anguished mom Lucia wailed: “This didn’t happen overnight, this behaviour. You see the signs. You know when something is wrong with your child.”

No, it doesn’t happen overnight and sensitive parents do know when their offspring are simply off — but sometimes families don’t get the help they need.

The indicators that Kruse Wellwood and Cameron Moffat might be dangerous seem to have been fairly overt.

An only child who grew up in a broken home, the now-17-year-old Wellwood disdained his mother, verbally and physically abusing her.

Slightly built, bright and curious, he cultivated a superior attitude toward his peers and was addicted to cannabis.

Wellwood didn’t really know his father because dad already had blazed a trail to the penitentiary.

He’s serving a life sentence without chance of parole for 15 years after being convicted of second-degree murder.

On Oct. 13, 2001, Robert Raymond Dezwaan sexually assaulted and beat to death a 16-year-old girl in Merritt. He had a history of abusing women.

Wellwood was diagnosed as a deviant sexual sadist with very strong psychopathic traits and strong indicators for necrophilia.

Juvenile forensic psychiatrist Dr. Roy O’Shaughnessy said he has an extreme form of psychopathy and rehabilitation is unrealistic. He will be a very high risk to reoffend for the next 25 to 30 years.

“Unfortunately, we do not have any treatment to deal with the degree of psychopathy,” O’Shaughnessy reported.

Like father, like son.

They can get reacquainted and grow old together in prison.

Wellwood’s partner, 18-year-old Moffat, isn’t quite as far along the scale of deviancy but is considered equally beyond hope.

A destructive child, difficult to discipline, rebellious, cruel to animals, he was an arsonist at 13. Moffat was arrested in February 2006 for threatening his mother with a knife. He is similarly considered a high risk to reoffend and will need to be monitored for the rest of his life.

Rarely do the courts hear such damning psychiatric reports or confront such dysfunctional teenagers.

They’d been sharing rape fantasies for a year before the unspeakable slaying.

Text messages revealed they carefully planned the March 18, 2010 abduction, sex assault, torture, murder and mutilation. They expected the killing would be “fun” and “exhilarating” — their homicidal sang-froid beggaring belief.

You need only listen to their chilling conversation and laughter, recorded in the back of a sheriff’s van, to comprehend their lack of empathy or emotional connection with the rest of humanity.

These two have focused attention on a terrible fact of modern life — many, many of these psychopathic predators live among us.

Clifford Olson, Robert Pickton, former-Col. Russell Williams, Charles Kembo, now Wellwood and Moffat — born or bred? Does it matter?

B.C.’s psychopathy specialist Robert Hare has said for years we need to get better at identifying these conscienceless individuals.

We need to be more alert to the warning signs and much, much quicker to respond.

Usually, it’s not just the parent who knows something is wrong with their child — the whole village has an inkling.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Everyone+missed+warning+signs+prior+gruesome+murder/4565381/story.html#ixzz1IrY4YLGe
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#253 Wetcoaster

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 12:14 PM

The placement for the two teens convicted and sentenced to life in prison as adults for the brutal murder of Kimberly Proctor has been decided.

Kruse Hendrik Wellwood can stay in the relatively more-protected environment of the Youth Detention Centre until his 18th birthday, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Robert Johnston ruled this morning at placement hearing to determine where Kimberly Proctor’s teen killers will serve their sentences.

Cameron Moffat, now 19, will be transferred to a federal penitentiary to serve his sentence of life in prison with no possibility of parole for 10 years. Moffat will spend the next three months being assessed at the federal intake centre to determine what treatment programs he should be in.

Wellwood will be transferred to the federal system on Jan. 23, 2012, his 18 birthday.

http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz1NOPJyyOX
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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#254 Wetcoaster

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

The parents of Kimberly Proctor are upset that the two convicted murderers will be eligible for parole in 10 years rather than 25 as is the case when adults are convicted of first degree murder.

Of course parole eligibility does not mean they will be paroled. And based on the evidence presented in court the chances of either of these two murderers being paroled is slim and none... and slim has long since left the building.

Also the pair received full adult sentences - life. It is parole eligibility that varies because of their ages per the Criminal Code.


Persons under eighteen


745.1 The sentence to be pronounced against a person who was under the age of eighteen at the time of the commission of the offence for which the person was convicted of first degree murder or second degree murder and who is to be sentenced to imprisonment for life shall be that the person be sentenced to imprisonment for life without eligibility for parole until the person has served

...

(b) ten years, in the case of a person convicted of first degree murder who was sixteen or seventeen years of age at the time of the commission of the offence;


And the article:

The family of a murdered Victoria-area teen has proposed seven changes to the Youth Criminal Justice Act as it calls on the federal and B.C. governments to protect society from dangerous youths.

Kimberly Proctor’s parents, grandparents and brother told a news conference Thursday that they’ve sent letters to Prime Minister Stephen Harper and B.C. Premier Christy Clark highlighting the proposals.


Proctor’s dad, Fred Proctor, said Ottawa needs to toughen penalties for young offenders raised to adult court.


He said he wants truth-in-sentencing so that youth who are sentenced as adults receive full adult sentences.


Proctor said the family is still reeling that the two teens who raped, tortured and murdered his 18-year-old daughter in March 2010 are eligible for parole in 10 years as opposed to the adult sentence of life with parole eligibility after 25 years.


“We were led to believe they were going to be sentenced as adults,” he said.


“This is a farce. It’s ridiculous.


“Is the rest of the country aware of this? ... Does that mean in seven years’ time we’re going to have to go through a parole hearing and get dragged through all this garbage again?”


The Proctor family is calling the proposed changes Kimberly’s Law.

http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2HhrU2Ozb

Edited by Wetcoaster, 11 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.

To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#255 thema

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

This has been in the news a lot the last couple of days but typically I can find no details about the 7 proposed changes. What would they be?

#256 Wetcoaster

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

This has been in the news a lot the last couple of days but typically I can find no details about the 7 proposed changes. What would they be?

As this article points out a number of the proposed changes have been tried in the past and found not to work.
http://www.timescolo...ishment-1.44804

Also see:

Victoria-area lawyer Troy DeSouza, a two-time federal Conservative candidate, said of the seven proposals, three are aimed at the B.C. government and four at the federal government.


The three provincial reforms revolve around identifying and treating young people who may be prone to violence.


They include making schools safer by implementing threat assessment protocols that identify potentially violent students and developing treatment plans, including court-ordered forced treatment of young people identified as threats.


DeSouza said Kimberly's Law also proposes amending B.C.'s Parental Responsibility Act to make parents responsible for damages caused by their children to a maximum of $25,000 as relief from injury to a person or loss of life.


He said the penalty may compel otherwise uninvolved parents to take more control of the violent actions of their children.


The four proposals to reform federal youth justice primarily involve getting tougher on young people raised to adult courts.


Kimberly's Law seeks to automatically transfer to adult court an alleged offender 16 years old or older who is charged with first-degree or second-degree murder.


The law would allow the name of a young offender to become public once the offender pleads guilty. Currently, the names of young offenders are banned from publication until the accused are sentenced.


Kimberly's Law seeks to ensure young offenders who are sentenced to life as adults receive the same sentences — 25-year without parole — as adults. Currently, young offenders sentenced to life as adults, as the Proctor killers were, are eligible for parole after serving 10 years.


Fred Proctor said he felt almost duped by the justice system when he discovered Wellwood and Moffatt were eligible for parole after 10 years.


"We were led to believe they were going to be sentenced as adults," he said. "This is a farce. It's ridiculous."


"Is the rest of the country aware of this? It's a farce. Does that mean in seven years' time we're going to have to go through a parole hearing and get dragged through all this garbage again?"


Kimberly's Law also proposes the federal government separate young offenders charged with first-and second-degree murder from other young offenders in custody facilities to prevent the other inmates from being exposed or traumatized by the details of the crimes committed by the alleged youth killers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/01/10/kimberly-proctor-murder-youth-criminal-justice-act_n_2446626.html
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#257 Special Ed

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:54 PM

Extremely sad and disturbing case. I have a feeling the punishment they receive won't be punishment enough.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#258 Down by the River

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

As this article points out a number of the proposed changes have been tried in the past and found not to work.
http://www.timescolo...ishment-1.44804

Also see:

Victoria-area lawyer Troy DeSouza, a two-time federal Conservative candidate, said of the seven proposals, three are aimed at the B.C. government and four at the federal government.


The three provincial reforms revolve around identifying and treating young people who may be prone to violence.


They include making schools safer by implementing threat assessment protocols that identify potentially violent students and developing treatment plans, including court-ordered forced treatment of young people identified as threats.


DeSouza said Kimberly's Law also proposes amending B.C.'s Parental Responsibility Act to make parents responsible for damages caused by their children to a maximum of $25,000 as relief from injury to a person or loss of life.


He said the penalty may compel otherwise uninvolved parents to take more control of the violent actions of their children.


The four proposals to reform federal youth justice primarily involve getting tougher on young people raised to adult courts.


Kimberly's Law seeks to automatically transfer to adult court an alleged offender 16 years old or older who is charged with first-degree or second-degree murder.


The law would allow the name of a young offender to become public once the offender pleads guilty. Currently, the names of young offenders are banned from publication until the accused are sentenced.


Kimberly's Law seeks to ensure young offenders who are sentenced to life as adults receive the same sentences — 25-year without parole — as adults. Currently, young offenders sentenced to life as adults, as the Proctor killers were, are eligible for parole after serving 10 years.


Fred Proctor said he felt almost duped by the justice system when he discovered Wellwood and Moffatt were eligible for parole after 10 years.


"We were led to believe they were going to be sentenced as adults," he said. "This is a farce. It's ridiculous."


"Is the rest of the country aware of this? It's a farce. Does that mean in seven years' time we're going to have to go through a parole hearing and get dragged through all this garbage again?"


Kimberly's Law also proposes the federal government separate young offenders charged with first-and second-degree murder from other young offenders in custody facilities to prevent the other inmates from being exposed or traumatized by the details of the crimes committed by the alleged youth killers.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2446626.html


I can totally understand the Proctor family's frustration. However, 'eligible for review' in this case is rather meaningless. Both youth were assessed by multiple psychologists and psychiatrists as having psychopathy, and both were also found to have tendencies for sexual sadism (only one was formally diagnosed). These two risk factors are huge red flags for any review board. I'd eat my hat if these two were released within the next 25 years.

In regards to the bolded portion of the article, this is a real concern to me. Forced treatment simply does not work. Moreover, the empirical validity of risk assessment tools for violent youth are very limited, and whether they would be accurate for this type of population is not yet know. I would hope that government would first research risk assessment validity and then institute laws, however this is not the Feds' MO (it never has been, because the research invariably discredits all of their policies).

OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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