stonecoldstevebernier Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Archibald's noticeably better than Sestito, he can actually skate and has a decent amount of hockey sense. Debatable whether or not he's better than Weise at this point, but I'd like to see him stick around when everyone's healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsPajamas Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'm all in with this guy. The only thing I'd ever seen of him was when he was on the Colts and he hit that goalie. So I kinda figured he would have a harsh mean streak to his game, the kind of guy that plays on the edge, but that isn't the case. He plays a hard nose game but its clean and controlled. I'd like to see what he can do in a fight. I'll have to check hockeyfights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Going back down to play top 6 minutes and develop his offensive game when we're healthy. When we are back to full health, there is no spot for Archibald but the 4th line. And Tort's 4th lines get 5-7 minutes a night - we need Archie playing more minutes than that and if the Canucks management and coaching staff really think that there is something there, they will send him back down. Sestito is capable of 5-7 minutes per night. He has definitely outplayed at least Sestito and perhaps Weise, but his future is also a lot brighter and if he can develop his scoring touches, we might really have something here - as Tortorella said. No need to keep him around to sit on the bench for 50-55 minutes every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Going back down to play top 6 minutes and develop his offensive game when we're healthy. When we are back to full health, there is no spot for Archibald but the 4th line. And Tort's 4th lines get 5-7 minutes a night - we need Archie playing more minutes than that and if the Canucks management and coaching staff really think that there is something there, they will send him back down. Sestito is capable of 5-7 minutes per night. He has definitely outplayed at least Sestito and perhaps Weise, but his future is also a lot brighter and if he can develop his scoring touches, we might really have something here - as Tortorella said. No need to keep him around to sit on the bench for 50-55 minutes every game. Nope. Keep him up for an extended look. He's 23 not 20. He's played in the AHL. Needs to have more exposure to the big club. He looks good. Better than Weise. Sestito is probably gonna stick around because he drops the gloves regularly - even though he punches with his face a lot, lol. Archie needs a ten to twenty game look with the big club. This " send him down, he needs to play" stuff is way over done. For a player Archie's age, who's already played in the minors it's BS. He needs and extended audition now in the bigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Nope. Keep him up for an extended look. He's 23 not 20. He's played in the AHL. Needs to have more exposure to the big club. He looks good. Better than Weise. Sestito is probably gonna stick around because he drops the gloves regularly - even though he punches with his face a lot, lol. Archie needs a ten to twenty game look with the big club. This " send him down, he needs to play" stuff is way over done. For a player Archie's age, who's already played in the minors it's BS. He needs and extended audition now in the bigs. I don't think so. I see your point but Archibald still has room to grow as he has been a late bloomer. One year in the AHL will not hurt him at this point - I see 23 as being still young enough to develop one's game in the AHL, especially given that he will not get much ice time in the NHL: D Sedin - H Sedin - Kesler Higgins - Santorelli - Burrows Kassian - Shroeder - Hansen Booth - Richardson - ______ It is pretty clear that there is no room for Archibald in the top 9. He is going to have to compete with Weise for that final roster spot (he is clearly better than Sestito). Against big, physical teams, Archibald will get the nod, but against a team with more speed, Weise will get in. That means half the time, Archibald is sitting in the press box watching, and the other half? Playing 4th line minutes. Sestito's average ice time is 5 minutes. Weise plays around 7 minutes, and Archibald so far has played around 6 minutes per game. That is not enough to learn the ropes and develop as an NHLer: that is a dead end and a fast track to becoming just another enforcer with no offensive touch or defensive specialty in this league. On this team, Archibald gets no PK time. On this team, Archibald sure as hell won't get any PP time. On this team, Archibald can only dream of hitting double digits in ice time when we're back to full health. IMO, it's best he goes down for another year and hope for a deep playoff run for the Canucks and that he can beat someone out of a job then. By then, he'll have another full season of AHL under him with lots of confidence that he can score and he may be able to do a lot more damage in the 4th line minutes earned than if he stayed here all season. I'm loving this guy right now too and he is NHL-ready, which is what makes the decision hard. But IMO, this team is too deep and it would be wise to send him back down. This move may pay dividends for us in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I don't think so. I see your point but Archibald still has room to grow as he has been a late bloomer. One year in the AHL will not hurt him at this point - I see 23 as being still young enough to develop one's game in the AHL, especially given that he will not get much ice time in the NHL: D Sedin - H Sedin - Kesler Higgins - Santorelli - Burrows Kassian - Shroeder - Hansen Booth - Richardson - ______ It is pretty clear that there is no room for Archibald in the top 9. He is going to have to compete with Weise for that final roster spot (he is clearly better than Sestito). Against big, physical teams, Archibald will get the nod, but against a team with more speed, Weise will get in. That means half the time, Archibald is sitting in the press box watching, and the other half? Playing 4th line minutes. Sestito's average ice time is 5 minutes. Weise plays around 7 minutes, and Archibald so far has played around 6 minutes per game. That is not enough to learn the ropes and develop as an NHLer: that is a dead end and a fast track to becoming just another enforcer with no offensive touch or defensive specialty in this league. On this team, Archibald gets no PK time. On this team, Archibald sure as hell won't get any PP time. On this team, Archibald can only dream of hitting double digits in ice time when we're back to full health. IMO, it's best he goes down for another year and hope for a deep playoff run for the Canucks and that he can beat someone out of a job then. By then, he'll have another full season of AHL under him with lots of confidence that he can score and he may be able to do a lot more damage in the 4th line minutes earned than if he stayed here all season. I'm loving this guy right now too and he is NHL-ready, which is what makes the decision hard. But IMO, this team is too deep and it would be wise to send him back down. This move may pay dividends for us in the future. Lol. We're gonna have to agree to disagree. You said the same thing, only more eloquently and with more paragraphs.. I stick by the same thing I said previously. There comes a time when guys have to get an audition in the bigs. Then they have to start earning more minutes. This inevitably happens. When guys are 23 and looking like they are knocking at the door, you gotta give them the chance. Waiting till they're 24 makes no difference. Give him a chance now. See what happens. If he's worth it he will prove it. The wait and see approach is valid for 20/21 year old kids. As they get older they actually have to get more of a chance to show what they can do in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phamda Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Lol. We're gonna have to agree to disagree. You said the same thing, only more eloquently and with more paragraphs.. I stick by the same thing I said previously. There comes a time when guys have to get an audition in the bigs. Then they have to start earning more minutes. This inevitably happens. When guys are 23 and looking like they are knocking at the door, you gotta give them the chance. Waiting till they're 24 makes no difference. Give him a chance now. See what happens. If he's worth it he will prove it. The wait and see approach is valid for 20/21 year old kids. As they get older they actually have to get more of a chance to show what they can do in the NHL. Send him back to the AHL. This could be his first AHL season with NHL call ups. A season ago he was in the ECHL with some time with the AHL. Absolutely no reason to have him on the 4th line playing 5 mins a game. Let him play top 6 or 9 mins in the AHL, especially with us owning the team. Rushing him now would completely waste all the effort the team has taken in slowly bringing him along and letting him work on his deficiencies. He's starting to show he could be an NHL player. You don't say a player needs to step up and prove himself just because he's 23. this is a kid that was undrained, invited to 2 different training camps and spend a large portion of time in the ECHL. Canucks are using the exact same development pattern that Burrows went though and Burrows didn't make his NHL debut til he was 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Send him back to the AHL. This could be his first AHL season with NHL call ups. A season ago he was in the ECHL with some time with the AHL. Absolutely no reason to have him on the 4th line playing 5 mins a game. Let him play top 6 or 9 mins in the AHL, especially with us owning the team. Rushing him now would completely waste all the effort the team has taken in slowly bringing him along and letting him work on his deficiencies. He's starting to show he could be an NHL player. You don't say a player needs to step up and prove himself just because he's 23. this is a kid that was undrained, invited to 2 different training camps and spend a large portion of time in the ECHL. Canucks are using the exact same development pattern that Burrows went though and Burrows didn't make his NHL debut til he was 24. Nope you're wrong. Yes Burrows broke into the NHL at 24 but he played half a year in the NHL/ AHL that year. Archibald has shown an ability to play in the NHL now. So, like Burrows, he needs a chance for an extended look of 10 to 20 games. No difference than Burrows got at 24. Stop thinking that nobody can come up and stick. Stop over thinking that guys have to be sent down to develop. Once they show what Archie has shown, you have to give them a chance for an extended look. Otherwise you are not developing them you are screwing with them. Give him 10 to 20 games to show what he can do. If there are injuries he may get more than 4th line minutes during his audition. Regardless, he has reached a point where learning will come faster at the NHL than the AHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Nope you're wrong. Yes Burrows broke into the NHL at 24 but he played half a year in the NHL/ AHL that year. Archibald has shown an ability to play in the NHL now. So, like Burrows, he needs a chance for an extended look of 10 to 20 games. No difference than Burrows got at 24. Stop thinking that nobody can come up and stick. Stop over thinking that guys have to be sent down to develop. Once they show what Archie has shown, you have to give them a chance for an extended look. Otherwise you are not developing them you are screwing with them. Give him 10 to 20 games to show what he can do. If there are injuries he may get more than 4th line minutes during his audition. Regardless, he has reached a point where learning will come faster at the NHL than the AHL level. Not at all. First of all, looking at Burrows. He couldn't stick as a full-time player (sent up and down) on a 2005-2006 Canucks team that was depleted in depth and did not even make the playoffs. This team has Cup aspirations and has incredible depth. Apples and oranges - Alex Burrows at 24 may not have made this team. Second of all, the Canucks don't owe Archibald anything. They are already giving him his reward: getting a taste in the NHL. We became short-handed due to injuries and because he was playing well in the minors, we are rewarding him with the opportunity to get a few games in at the NHL level. As soon as we are healthy, and he's sent down, there's nothing for him to say or complain. If he does, I would question his character. Just keep your mouth shut and work harder. The Canucks will obviously give him encouraging words and things that he needs to work on and what they want out of him. Getting a taste will motivate and only make him a better player when he gets big minutes in the AHL. I'll even give you an example of a player who got shafted big time before: Jannik Hansen. Jannik was definitely NHL-ready as he proved in the 2006-2007 playoff games. However, he got the short end of the stick in 2007-2008 for one reason: he could be sent down without being put on waivers but Mason Raymond didn't. It's called asset management. We would have lost Raymond for nothing if we sent him down instead. So Jannik went down, kept his mouth shut and worked his butt off. Jannik still has a job with us while Raymond had to get a tryout contract before earning much less $ than Hansen is right now (though he is doing well for the Leafs). Extra year in the AHL does not ruin players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phamda Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Nope you're wrong. Yes Burrows broke into the NHL at 24 but he played half a year in the NHL/ AHL that year. Archibald has shown an ability to play in the NHL now. So, like Burrows, he needs a chance for an extended look of 10 to 20 games. No difference than Burrows got at 24. Stop thinking that nobody can come up and stick. Stop over thinking that guys have to be sent down to develop. Once they show what Archie has shown, you have to give them a chance for an extended look. Otherwise you are not developing them you are screwing with them. Give him 10 to 20 games to show what he can do. If there are injuries he may get more than 4th line minutes during his audition. Regardless, he has reached a point where learning will come faster at the NHL than the AHL level. The argument you're making is that an extra year makes no difference. Burrows as playing his first full AHL season at age 23 and then at 24 split time between the two leagues. I'm saying that Archibald would benefit from having extended AHL time after spending a majority of his career as an ECHL player. Burrows had a total of 107 AHL games working his way up from a 4th liner to a significant role with the AHL club. Archibald has a 79 AHL games playing mainly 4th line minutes and a few games as a top line for a span of i think 9-12 games last season with Kassian. Burrows also had a better point total in the AHL 56 points to Archie 27 pts. What exactly has Archibald shown in his time up? What ability has he shown to be able to play in the NHL? He's done well in a short span of 4 games, he was nonexistent in Stl, Was and Det. Tonight was his first noticeable game because he was buzzing the net late in the third period while the team was up 3-0. He can play a safe game that doesn't go noticed. Sure, that's great for now but what happens when the team gets healthy? He's had 2 games as a 3rd line winger the other 2 basically 4th liners. his ice time breakdown through 4 NHL games. Vs Stl - 8:01 Vs WAS - 4:52 Vs Det - 4:53 Vs TOR - 9:59 In the Stl and Tor game he was played as a 3rd liner, getting between 8-10 mins is fine for development but Archibald is not going to be 3rd liner on a healthy Canucks teams. Which means he would average 5 minutes a night. All his ice time is also even strength. He not bumping anyone in the line up to get used on the PK or PP. Of course there's no update on injuries and he could very well be around for him to reach the 10 game mark but sitting either Sestito or Weise in favor of playing Archibald for 5 minutes a game makes no sense in his development. If the Canucks are looking for a top 9 prospect that is further along in their development to continue developing in the NHL, I think that is Jensen, now that he's back from injury and playing in the AHL, (Dalpe was also recalled) I wouldn't be surprised to see Archibald sent down in the next week or so. Though I think his assist tonight may get a bit more time. Whatever you've noticed in him in the last 4 games is because the Canucks were willing to take their time with him and give him an opportunity to succeed. This isn't a "time to prove yourself" scenario for Archibald. If that train of thought is even in the Canucks mind it's next year or the year after that. Anyways, your entitled to your opinion, I don't agree with it, that's fine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Archibald isn't an NHL player or will be. I'm saying keeping him up on a healthy roster as a 4th line pretty much kills any offensive potential he may be able to tap into as a power forward in the AHL because if he stays with the team, that's where he's going to end up. On the 4th line playing 5 mins a game. Weise made the Canucks as a 4th liner but he also has a different skill set than Archibald and was used on the PK. I think he averaged 8-9 mins a game under AV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectacular Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Sedin Sedin Kesler Burrows Santorelli Higgins Archibald Richardson Kassian Sestito Welsh Weber Let him play on the 3rd line until the team gets healthy. He's played really well and has shown the team that he's ready for the big time. If Tortorella gets a 4th line that can sustain pressure, he'll give them 8-10 minutes a game and that's fine by me. Sedin Sedin Kesler Burrows Santorelli Kassian Higgins Schroeder Hansen Booth Richardson Archibald Dalpe Weise Sestito Looks good to me. Dalpe can take Schroeder's spot (or Richardson's) if Shroeder's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I think Archibald is going to stick for the rest of the season. Nothing but good things to be said about the guy during his first ever NHL stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Let him play on the 3rd line until the team gets healthy. He's played really well and has shown the team that he's ready for the big time. If Tortorella gets a 4th line that can sustain pressure, he'll give them 8-10 minutes a game and that's fine by me. That is not going to happen unless Archibald is given PP or PK time. Even if Tortorella has a good 4th line, the 1st line will get 20+ minutes, 2nd line close to 20 minutes and the 3rd line around 10 minutes. This is not AV hockey where you roll 4 lines - this is Tortorella hockey where the best guys play lots of minutes.He rarely plays his 4th line regardless of talent. What could happen is if someone on the 3rd line isn't going he'll bench them and give a guy like Archibald a chance on the 3rd line during the game when he shortens the bench in the 3rd period as he always does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Archibald played 10 minutes last game and had an assist. He showed that he can play decent minutes and not be a liability. He'll get more minutes on this road trip to see if he can sustain that. We need to spread out the minutes on tough road trips especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 His skating is night and day in terms of what it was last year vs this year and I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think he's actually ahead of Kassian when it comes to winning puck battles and on the defensive side of the puck (especially things like angling off the opposition although Kass is getting better as of late). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 His skating is night and day in terms of what it was last year vs this year and I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think he's actually ahead of Kassian when it comes to winning puck battles and on the defensive side of the puck (especially things like angling off the opposition although Kass is getting better as of late). I thinkt he reason for that is Archibald is a little bit quicker than Kassian. In terms of skill when fighting for the puck Kassian is better. Kassian also makes better plays as a result of his skill. Overall, I slot Kassian over Archibald, but I also think they play very good together. So realistically, there's no point in lotting one over the other if they're on the same line. Archibald plays with more grit and energy than Kassian. I think it might pay off for the guy in the long run. I don't see Archibald hitting the 4th line 2-minute limbo. He's a guy who will play his own minutes into the double digits. He's already making Sestito look bad. He's doing everything Booth was doing at 4+ mil. The only thing that will push Archibald out of the line-up is possibly the return of Hansen. I don't think even Wiese will push Archibald's minutes down. Arch has even manage to separate himself above Welsh, who has also impressed during this call-up. This is where you gotta look at guys like Dalpe and think: why didn't you jsut put in the effort? Arch did it, and he's getting rewards. Just skate hard and do the little things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Can't wait for his first fight. His team mates are going to love having him there. That's half the battle when your trying to get comfortable at the NHL level (just my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 There is no way he stays when everyone is healthy but I would rather have him over Weise or Sestito. I like Welsh at centre, Dalpe is a waste of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 There is no way he stays when everyone is healthy but I would rather have him over Weise or Sestito. I like Welsh at centre, Dalpe is a waste of space. No way Dalpe beats out Welsh, never mind when Schroeder returns. Dalpe is Utica-bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeydew Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Looking like Archibald might steal Booth's spot. Rather have Archibald than Booth at this point for durability wise.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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