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Osama Bin Laden Killed


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#541 Jaimito

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 05:57 PM

Not sure if this has been posted:

Enjoy
http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/how-the-us-got-bin-laden/17y74ks9t?cpkey=46945a21-57be-409c-962a-2232ea727f39|||


this version has them on top of the roof.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...h-asia-13262963
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#542 لني

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 07:03 PM

the order was shoot to kill. he is better dead. a live one will create security problems, and dragged out court circus.

here's a neat shot of the white house during the raid. they were watching video feed.
http://swampland.tim...e-idd-geronimo/
Posted Image

http://www.time.com/...2271482,00.html

Lol just like everyday people. Check out the military dude checking his inbox.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#543 avelanch

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 07:17 PM

Ding Dong! Bin Laden is dead. Which old Bin Laden? The Wicked Bin Laden
Ding Dong! The Wicked Bin Laden is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Bin Laden is dead. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Bin Laden is dead!

......sing to the tune The Witch is Dead from The Wizard of Oz
I can't get the tune out of my head now so I had to share :P
All together now!
Ding Dong.........

The Witch = 2 syllables
Bin Laden = 3 Syllables.

song fail.
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#544 لني

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 07:48 PM

It's really astonishing how different the views on this forum are compared to those on my German soccer board, where I am a regular and know many people from real life very well.


the problem is it's easier to point out what's gone wrong with events that have happened vs events that never took place.

What if after 9/11 the US said oh well no biggie? What if the US didn't invade Afghanistan?

Essentially 9/11 brought to the forefront on a daily basis what had been simmering in the background all along.

Terrorism went from: "oh some guy hickjacked a plane and wants some money/prisoners released" and "oh some big explosion happened on some far off country" to "crap these guys are serious."


Not sure how many people remember the Algerian guy Ressam(sp?) that was found with a trunk (boot) full of explosives planning to blow up LAX. He had been plotting and preparing his act in Vancouver (burnaby if I remember).

Did anyone at that time even remotely foresee the "seriousness" of the event? Probably not most people passed that off as "oh another crazy trying to kill a few yanks."

Bombings in London and Madrid reaffirmed that. Near misses in Germany and Canada also reaffirmed that.

I'm curious as to why you wouldn't trust US media sources but would trust German ones?

I don't agree with what the US has done all the time but maybe it's time for other countries Germany, Canada *cough cough* to play a bigger role in global and specifically western security.



as for why it took so long.....

Still hard to believe he was found in a mansion in the middle of a Pakistani city full of civilians and so close to a police station. Maybe this has been mentioned in previous posts so I apologize in advance, but it just makes me wonder how it took the US this long to identify the location (or at least suspect) when that mansion had obvious security features such as those high walls and barbed wires. I think I also read somewhere that it was built for 5 years already? Did the US just not trust some of the sources from the Pakistani officials?
And again, sorry if this has been mentioned, but has there been confirmation that this was or was not a joint operation with any Pakistani agencies? Kinda hard for me to keep up to date fast as I don't have a TV.


it's not so hard to believe. Firstly Osama can wax and wane about his pious live devoid of any luxuries but at the end of the day he's human and he was a powerful one at that. Why not take advantage of all the perks that provides?

Why did it take so long to find him?

Well he was no doubt being helped and supported by elements with in the ISI/military.

There's no way anything happens in countries like Pakistan with out someone higher up the food chain knowing. That's the way their society works. Very few with a position of power would pass up the opportunity to get some baksheesh (bribe).

That includes buidling a $1 mil mansion. That includes having a secure house in a place where security would be of the utmost importance (militarily sensitive).

The disorganization in places like Pak and in particular the places outside big cities such as Islamabad, Lahore etc make it near impossible to "figure things out".

Osama had not only the support of the ISI but access to cash from wealthy gulf supporters through places in the gulf where money can easily be moved around.

Osama himself dispite his attempt to show himself as someone who could live the austere life was profficient in using the latest technology.

He had support from the general population as the man who was going to bring down the big bad US and the slightly less big and slightly less bad west. Because hey they are the cause of all the issues in Pak and the Muslim world of course.


You can have all the technology in the world but when you are fighting against culture, language, etc it relatively difficult to rely strictly on that technology. That technology would be useless without some sort of human intelligence to make use of it ie someone with detailed knowledge of Osamas whereabouts.

This was something the US recognized a few years back. That they had relied on technology too much and not enough on the human intelligence gathering.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#545 GoodBadUgly

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 08:12 PM

So people actually believe this crap?
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#546 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 08:32 PM

So people actually believe this crap?


I don't. The 9/11 conspiracy will live forever!
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#547 Raoul Duke

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 08:41 PM

The Witch = 2 syllables
Bin Laden = 3 Syllables.

song fail.


Ha ha...

My favourite part was "sing it to the tune of The Witch is Dead".... THANKS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!!
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#548 Señor Hoff

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 08:59 PM

So people actually believe this crap?


They do, obviously, because it comes from the great truth tellers from the U.S. government.




"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."
Adolf Hitler

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#549 megamind

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:17 PM

Why does FBI website did not include 911 in Usama's resume?

http://www.fbi.gov/w...usama-bin-laden


According these brave 1400 plus architects & engineers http://www.fbi.gov/w...usama-bin-laden, the FBI said they don't have enough evidence to implicate him.


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#550 jovocop55

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:37 PM

i wanna see pix to believe..
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#551 NightHawkSniper

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:38 PM

I think shoot to kill creates more problems. Now, he's sort of a martyr for his followers. If he's taken alive, he gets locked up in Guantanamo for the rest of his life and withers away into obscurity. Plus you might even get some info from him with "enhanced interrogation techniques".


There would be way more complications with him alive than dead, it's better him dead than risk him getting free again.
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#552 Canuckerbird

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:40 PM

So people actually believe this crap?


You don't? I guess you actually want to see the bullet ridden head of bin Laden before you believe he's dead.
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#553 OgS.MVP

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:44 PM

Posted Image

Edited by KSK, 02 May 2011 - 09:45 PM.

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#554 The Situation

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:46 PM

Pakistan obviously played some role in hiding Pakistan or rogue elements of the ISI or military.
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#555 PuckMaestro

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:56 PM

Probably sleeper cells all over the world waiting for this day to activate, I expect a fresh wave of terrorist attacks unfortunately, as morbid as that sounds.


Yup, and possibly WWIII Imo ...
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#556 Zamboni_14

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:05 PM

Why does FBI website did not include 911 in Usama's resume?

http://www.fbi.gov/w...usama-bin-laden


According these brave 1400 plus architects & engineers http://www.fbi.gov/w...usama-bin-laden, the FBI said they don't have enough evidence to implicate him.


I can say the same thing about the US government... the FBI doesn't have enough evidence to implicate them either.
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#557 canadian hockey style

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:48 PM

the order was shoot to kill. he is better dead. a live one will create security problems, and dragged out court circus.

here's a neat shot of the white house during the raid. they were watching video feed.
http://swampland.tim...e-idd-geronimo/
Posted Image

http://www.time.com/...2271482,00.html

looks like one of them is doing an interview bomb a la kesler
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#558 Horny Manatee

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:53 PM

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the 'TV watcher' to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money."
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#559 M A K A V E L I 96

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:22 PM

This guy from the youtube comment section must be really confused. :D

Obama History Will Be Made

Why is this endorsed by the Stanley Cup Playoffs?
veetour 3 hours ago


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#560 nucklehead

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:41 PM

i wanna see pix to believe..


Posted Image

Here ya go!
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#561 Señor Hoff

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:42 PM

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#562 Buggernut

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:46 PM

Posted Image

Here ya go!

Nope. Ain't dead yet...


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#563 Sharpshooter

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:52 PM

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#564 Señor Hoff

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:01 AM

.

Edited by Señor Hoff, 03 May 2011 - 12:02 AM.

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#565 Wetcoaster

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:17 AM

Ding Dong! Bin Laden is dead. Which old Bin Laden? The Wicked Bin Laden
Ding Dong! The Wicked Bin Laden is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Bin Laden is dead. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Bin Laden is dead!

......sing to the tune The Witch is Dead from The Wizard of Oz
I can't get the tune out of my head now so I had to share :P
All together now!
Ding Dong.........

A day late and a dollar short. Been there, done that. Post #383
http://forum.canucks...60#entry9634560
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#566 Guest_Voucer_*

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:19 AM

I'm a bit skeptical. Too many things don't make sense. I have a feeling many of the details have been exaggerated or even fabricated.

1. Osama Bin Laden, one of the world's most wanted criminals, has no guards living with him? Really? There were only 5 casualties, three of whom were Bin Laden, his wife and his son. A group of Navy SEALS vs four men (in an ambush, no less) is a struggle. In such a huge complex with so many defense mechanisms to protect Bin Laden, there aren't any guards?

Q Were there any civilian -- I mean, how many civilian casualties were there?

MR. BRENNAN: Bin Laden died; the two al Qaeda facilitators -- the brothers, who were -- the courier and his brother in the compound; bin Laden's son Hamza; and the woman, presumed to be his wife, who was shielding bin Laden.



2. The complex itself is located in the heart of a militarized city where many retired military officers are living. Nobody suspects anything strange about an isolated house that burns its garbage rather than allow the government to collect it. Meanwhile, Americans were collecting data and observing the couriers without any detection from the Pakistani government.

3. Pakistani officials were not aware that American helicopters were flying over their country? Are they that incompetent? Pakistan has the seventh-largest military in the world, nuclear weaponry, and sophisticated technology. How could Pakistan be so oblivious to this operation?

4. The US government, based on their White House Press Conference this morning, are hesitant to release any evidence of Bin Laden's death, including photographs. All they can do is spread by word of mouth that they have matched his DNA. Reporters asked how sure the government was of Bin Laden's death; John Brennan reports they are 99.9% sure.

Q Is there some thought, though, that releasing a photo or two might avoid conspiracy theories throughout the Muslim world? MR. BRENNAN: We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden. And so, therefore, the releasing of information, and whether that includes photographs, this is something to be determined.

Q John, is the debate about whether to release something, or what to release, when it comes to visual evidence?

MR. BRENNAN: I think it's both. I think, first of all, what falls into the category of things that you can potentially release to the public, whether it be those DNA results, whether it be comments about the conduct of the operation, what happened, the intelligence case. And then you have to take a look at it from the standpoint of what are the upsides and downsides. And sometimes when you conduct an operation that is based on intelligence and is based on the very sensitive and very capable forces that we have available to us in the U.S. government, you want to make sure that you're not doing anything to expose something that will limit your ability to use those same intelligence sources and capabilities in the future.




5. The burial at sea makes no sense for Bin Laden; the US government destroys key evidence (and frankly, it's most important evidence) that would immediately end any speculation about Bin Laden's death. Additionally, Brennan seemed flustered and was grasping for answers at times during the press conference; he wasn't exactly calm when trying to answer questions.

Q John, can you tell us about the burial at sea? Where did it happen? When did it happen?

MR. BRENNAN: The disposal of -- the burial of bin Laden's remains was done in strict conformance with Islamist precepts and practices. It was prepared in accordance with the Islamic requirements. We early on made provisions for that type of burial, and we wanted to make sure that it was going to be done, again, in strict conformance.

So it was taken care of in the appropriate way. I'm not going to go into details about sort of the where, but that burial has taken place. It took place earlier today our time.

Q And why?

Q When was that decision made?

MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry?

Q When was that decision made that he would be buried at sea if killed?

Q Can you explain why --

MR. CARNEY: One at a time.

Q Was it thought through years ago? Was this part of the plan all along?

MR. BRENNAN: The COAs -- the course of action and the subsequent decisions that would have to be made have been developed over the course of the last several months. Senior officials, and there was a working group that was working this on a regular basis, if not a daily basis, over the last several weeks, looking at every decision and based on what type of scenario would unfold, what actions and decisions would be made. It was looked at from the standpoint of if we captured him, what will we do with him? Where would he go? If he was killed, what will we do with him, and where would he go? And it was determined that it was in the best interests of all involved that this burial take place, again, according to Islamic requirements, at sea.

Q Why at sea?

Q Can you just tell us why that was a good idea?

MR. BRENNAN: It was determined that that -- there is the requirement in Islamic law that an individual be buried within 24 hours. Went inside of Pakistan, carried out the operation, he was killed, he was removed from Pakistan. There were certain steps that had to be taken because of the nature of the operation, and we wanted to make sure we were able to do that in the time period allotted for it. Going to another country, making those arrangements, requirements, would have exceeded that time period, in our view. And so, therefore, we thought that the best way to ensure that his body was given an appropriate Islamic burial was to take those actions that would allow us to do that burial at sea.

Q John, did you consult a Muslim expert on that?

MR. BRENNAN: We consulted the appropriate specialists and experts, and there was unanimity that this would be the best way to handle that.

Q And last question. Do you know if detainees at Gitmo have been informed of what has happened to --

MR. BRENNAN: I do not know.

Q There are reports that he was wrapped in a weighted white sheet. How secure is that? Are you confident the body is not going to --

MR. BRENNAN: Burials at sea take place on a regular basis. The U.S. military has the ability to ensure that that burial is done in a manner that is, again, consistent with Islamic law, as well as consistent with what the requirements are for a burial at sea. And so that burial was done appropriately.

Q And so today lawmakers are urging -- possibly reconsidering or reevaluating aid to Pakistan, maybe attaching strings to military aid there. Was the White House --

MR. BRENNAN: I think people are raising a number of questions, and understandably so. Again, we're in just the first day after the operation, and he was found in Abbottabad outside of Islamabad. I'm sure a number of people have questions about whether or not there was some type of support that was provided by the Pakistani government. So I think people are raising these questions and how we're going to have to deal with them.

Q Is there a visual recording of this burial?

MR. CARNEY: We've got to get other people a chance here. Mara.

Q Just a quick question about the burial and then something else. Was there an imam there? Was there a religious --

MR. BRENNAN: It was done appropriately with the appropriate people there.


It all seems very far-fetched. I'm trying to convince myself there's nothing wrong with the story, but it all seems very odd. If they can provide some evidence, fine. Until then, however, this seems to be an elaborate story to bring closure for American citizens. Without a doubt, Bin Laden is dead. Did he die of natural causes, though, or was it all due to some heroic raid in which a helicopter went down and the Navy SEALS had to bravely adjust to a Plan B strategy?

It all seems too good to be true. If it is true, they sure weren't thinking when they dumped the body. Who figured Bin Laden would need to be disposed of within 24 hours? CNN was also initially reporting last night that tests would be done to determine his health status -- apparently, this did not happen.

Another thing that irks me is CNN's lack of questioning. They simply accept what the US government has said, though it was clear they did not trust the Japanese government's statements during the Japan Earthquake Crisis. In that instance, they were furiously investigating for any flaws in the story. The reporters present at the White House had more questions about the US government's story than anybody at CNN did.

Press conference transcript is available here at the White House's official website: http://www.whitehous...resident-homela

Edited by Quaker Oats, 03 May 2011 - 12:39 AM.

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#567 DonLever

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:25 AM

You have a point, if you are the world's most wanted terrorist, you would want a small army protecting you. Where were all the guards?
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#568 Homo Sapiens' Sapience

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:30 AM

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Wouldn't it be nice if people thought more and believed less?

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#569 megamind

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:31 AM

I can say the same thing about the US government... the FBI doesn't have enough evidence to implicate them either.



Sinclair Lewis: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

"It is difficult to get FBI to understand or to implicate the government when their salaries depend upon their not understand or knowing it.
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#570 Zamboni_14

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:50 AM

Sinclair Lewis: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

"It is difficult to get FBI to understand or to implicate the government when their salaries depend upon their not understand or knowing it.


ok, what about the UN? I can see the connection you want to make between the FBI and Bush (I disagree, but neither of us will convince each other enough to change our minds) but what does the UN have to gain from it? If anything, they would have more to gain from PROVING it was an inside job, because it would prove to the rest of the world that it doesn't just "go along" with whatever the US wants.
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