Osama Bin Laden Killed

[Buggernut]

http://firstread.msn...bin-ladens-body

[Zamboni_14]

Whatever happened to the policy of "transparency and accountability" that Obama campaigned on?

Dear Mr. President:

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!

[Buggernut]

Good, why should he be housed and fed the rest of his life as a prisoner?

The best thing to do was put a bullet into his temple and end the manhunt for that terrorist, bury him at sea and move forward.

Great call by the Americans.

[Zamboni_14]

So, we throw aside all the rules our democratic nations are built upon and decide who is not worthy of a proper trial by judging that he was too evil for jurisdiction? Sorry, but that is against all principles the founding fathers included in the constitution and the bill of rights. The legal system must not be based upon sympathy and/or the "volume" of a crime.

[Zamboni_14]

And the US does have capital punishment, so you don't have to worry about housing and feeding him for the rest of his life.

[German_Canucks_Supporter]

</h3>

Spiegel nails it again:

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http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,760358,00.html05/03/2011 03:21 PM

Justice, American Style

Was Bin Laden's Killing Legal?

An Analysis by Thomas Darnstädt

Is this what justice looks like? Al-Qaida boss Osama bin Laden was killed on Sunday in a secret military operation in Pakistan. Americans are celebrating, but there are serious doubts about whether the targeted killing was legal under international law and the laws of war.

US President Barack Obama gets precious few opportunities to announce a victory. So it's no wonder he chose grand words on Sunday night as the TV crews' spotlights shone upon him and he informed the nation about the deadly strike against Osama bin Laden. "Justice has been done," he said.

It may be that this sentence comes back to haunt him in the years to come. What is just about killing a feared terrorist in his home in the middle of Pakistan? For the families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks, and for patriotic Americans who saw their grand nation challenged by a band of criminals, the answer might be simple. But international law experts, who have been grappling with the question of the legal status of the US-led war on terror for years, find Obama's pithy words on Sunday night more problematic.

Claus Kress, an international law professor at the University of Cologne, argues that achieving retributive justice for crimes, difficult as that may be, is "not achieved through summary executions, but through a punishment that is meted out at the end of a trial." Kress says the normal way of handling a man who is sought globally for commissioning murder would be to arrest him, put him on trial and ultimately convict him. In the context of international law, military force can be used in the arrest of a suspect, and this may entail gun fire or situations of self-defense that, in the end, leave no other possibility than to kill a highly dangerous and highly suspicious person. These developments can also lead to tragic and inevitable escalations of the justice process.

It is unfortunate. And it is certainly no reason for the indescribable jubilation that broke out on Sunday night across America -- and especially not for applause inside the CIA's operations center.

Not Everything the US Declares To Be War Really Is

But Obama and his predecessor Bush never sought the kind of justice that would have seen bin Laden tried in an international court. As early as his election campaign in 2008, Obama swore he would "kill bin Laden" and finish the job begun by his predecessor after 9/11. "We went to war against al-Qaida to protect our citizens, our friends and our allies," the president explained on Sunday night. A US national security official didn't beat around the bush, telling Reuters, "This was a kill operation." And why shouldn't it be? The very goal of war is the defeat of the opponent, the killing of enemies through legal means. War is war.

In truth, it isn't quite that simple. And not everything that the United States declares to be war really is. Legal experts like Kress say it is "questionable whether the USA can still claim to be engaged in an armed conflict with al-Qaida."

It was certainly still war when Bush began the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Operation Enduring Freedom targeted the Taliban government in Kabul as well as Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization which it backed. At the time, al-Qaida maintained bases and training camps in Afghanistan -- just like a warring party, in fact. The war on terror was understood to be an "asymmetrical war," and the laws of war also permit the targeted killing of non-state combatants, provided they are really combatants who are organized in units with a military-like character, and that they are integrated into those units either as armed fighters or as a leader who issues commands.

Was Bin Laden Still Even Giving Orders?

For years, Osama bin Laden was, without a doubt, a combatant according to the latter definition. Many terror experts today, however, doubt that definition still applied to him in the end. "Al-Qaida has obviously had a network structure for some time. In a network, it isn't clear who gives the orders in individual instances," Kress says. "Outsiders also know very little about al-Qaida's structures in the Pakistani border areas. It is in no way certain that bin Laden still had the authority to issue commands as head of a quasi-military organization."

But if bin Laden was no longer a leader, it would no longer be permissible to treat him as an enemy combatant or kill him.

Nor is it clear which conflict this operation was actually part of. The operation didn't take place on the actual battlefield of Operation Enduring Freedom, i.e. in Afghanistan, but rather on Pakistani territory. On this point, too, the official American view of international law also diverges from that of most experts on the subject. The commanders of the war on terror consider the entire world to be a battlefield. The US would seek to justify a military operation like the one that took place Sunday anywhere it believes the enemy is hiding -- regardless whether it be in Europe or Islamabad.

Kress and the vast majority of other experts on the law of armed conflict find this view unacceptable. "The theater of an asymmetrical conflict is regularly confined to the territory of the country in, or from, which the non-governmental actors act in quasi-military ways," says Kress. "Anything else would lead to the incalculable escalation of the use of force." Or is another asymmetrical war raging on Pakistani territory today, with al-Qaida waging war against the government there? If so, what role does the Taliban play in this conflict? Or bin Laden, for his part?

"It is in no way clear that bin Laden, at the time of his killing, commanded an organization that was conducting an armed conflict either in or from Pakistan," Kress says.

What Business Did the US Have in Pakistan?

And what business did the United States even have acting within the territory of Pakistan, a foreign power? A military strike that crosses national borders, barring acts of self-defense, is generally viewed as an infringement on sovereignty -- unless Pakistan's government requested help from the Americans.

Did Islamabad actually make that request? Obama sought to gloss over the subject on Sunday night. "Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations."

But was Sunday a good day for justice?

For years, the very principle of international law has been to pursue justice rather than war. On Sunday, Obama said that bin Laden's fate is a "testament to the greatness of our country." If the United States had used the same power it deployed during the invasion of Iraq to force tyrants such as Saddam Hussein or Moammar Gadhafi -- not to mention the mass murderer Osama bin Laden -- into the dock of an international court, one might have believed him.

[Buggernut]

you do realize that if we captured him, housed him, and put him to death... we would in fact be housing and feeding him for the rest of his life (because that would actually be the rest of his life.)

[vancanfan]

Because we can extract more information from him alive than dead. He might have even spilled the beans and implicated others in his crimes. I guess we'll never find out now.

And the US does have capital punishment, so you don't have to worry about housing and feeding him for the rest of his life.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Ahaha!

Hopefully, they'd dispose of him as soon as he's lived out his usefulness.

But he might just spill the beans on all the wrong people for their liking, so it's no surprise they'd get rid of him in this expedient fashion. I guess the conspiracy theorists allegations of inside involvement will never be confirmed nor disproven.

[vancanfan]

After his death, Osama bin Laden went to heaven.

There he was greeted by George Washington, who proceeded to slap him across the face and yell at him, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"

Patrick Henry approached and punched Osama in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."

James Madison entered, kicked Osama in the nuts and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense !"

Thomas Jefferson came in and proceeded to beat Osama many times with a long cane and said, "It was evil men like you that provided me the inspiration to pen the Declaration of Independence !"

These beatings and thrashings continued as John Rudolph, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans came in and unleashed their anger on the terrorist leader.

As Osama lay bleeding and writhing! in unbearable pain an Angel appeared.

Bin Laden wept in pain and said to the Angel, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you up here. What did you think I said ?"

[Buggernut]

No thanks, bullet to head and be done with this sack of ----, perfect call.

[vancanfan]

Shoot first, ask questions later.

Maybe we shouldn't let sentiment and impulse override practical considerations.

[Buggernut]

Maybe we should just relish the fact that POS is dead, the US got their man, who cares about pictures, they did not kill him with the intention to appease YOU, they killed him because he was a terrorist.

[vancanfan]

How about the entire American populace who elect them and pay their taxes to them? Do they have any accountability to them?

[Buggernut]

Not all 300 million Americans want to see a picture of Bin Laden with half his head blown off, can you blame them?

[vancanfan]

They may not want to see the pictures themselves, but I figure most of them would like them made available for confirmation.

[Buggernut]

They showed pictures of Saddam's 2 sons because their heads were intact.

Bin Laden was shot above the eye and it took off a large chunk of his head, this is not something the public needs to see.

Trust me, he is dead, don't waste another minute thinking otherwise, you know they got him.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

But... the moon landings were faked, and the Government was behind the 9/11 attacks, and the Government killed JFK and RFK, and.....

The wingnuts that are out there, and the Right wing nut Fox News lovers want PROOF. You give them the photos, then they want the DNA samples made public, then they want the location where they dumped the body so they can search for proof,, it will never end.

[TheGlobalist]

If they can show photos of Saddam's two dead sons, surely, they can show photos of a dead Osama.

Forget the photos, I'd rather see the video IMO.

The cost of 9/11? Millions of dollars. The cost for hunting down Bin Laden? Bankruptcy.

[JAH]

So, we throw aside all the rules our democratic nations are built upon and decide who is not worthy of a proper trial by judging that he was too evil for jurisdiction? Sorry, but that is against all principles the founding fathers included in the constitution and the bill of rights. The legal system must not be based upon sympathy and/or the "volume" of a crime.