DeNiro Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 OMG your stupid, he was down in Winnipeg when he had those players. What has he developed since he has come up to the NHL? Chris Tanev? Who else has he even had the opportunity to develop since coming to the Canucks? He can only develop prospects if he's given ones that are NHL ready... Grabner would have become a great player for us, but GIllis decided to trade him for much needed defence instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one night Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Chris Tanev? Who else has he even had the opportunity to develop since coming to the Canucks? He can only develop prospects if he's given ones that are NHL ready... Grabner would have become a great player for us, but GIllis decided to trade him for much needed defence instead. MG discusses the prospects with AV before trades happen (for his opinion). Yes I agree about the upgrade on defence, but MG must have egg on his face the way AV handled Ballard, as MG would have asked AV for his opinion on Ballard before pulling the trigger on that deal. I also don't really consider the development of Tanev, as AV was desparate on defence with all the injuries. It will be interesting what he is going to do with Tanev this year. I say Tanev will be playing in the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The biggest problem with Power forwards (and why they take the longest to develop of any forward) is that they need to get used to no longer being able to just out muscle everyone like they did in the CHL/University. Throwing him into the AHL/ECHL would speed up this portion of his development. the top line of the ECHL would clearly be better than the 4th of the AHL, but I'd like to see him as a 3rd liner in Chicago if at all possible, but then again, I'd like to see how he does in the prospect's tourney/pre-season before making any official call on where he should go (if he fails miserably, then off to Roy he goes). Well, if he does go to Chicago, I'd like to see an Archibald-Schroeder-Grenier line. Mark Mancari would be better for Schroeder's development though, since he's an AHL vet, so maybe swap him in instead if Mancari gets cut after preseason. If Hodgson makes the Canucks out of camp: Sweatt-Ebbett-Haydar Rodin-Schroeder-Mancari Archibald-Schneider-Grenier Volpatti-Anthony-Doell If Hodgson doesn't make the Canucks out of camp: Sweatt-Hodgson-Haydar Rodin-Ebbet-Grenier Archibald-Schroeder-Mancari Anthony-Doell-Schneider Volpatti As it stands, Chicago has Hodgson, Ebbett, Schroeder, Doell, Schneider & Anthony as potential centres with Schroeder, Schneider & Anthony all C/W (although the jury is still out on Schroeder's ability to play wing, imo, but if we can find a Gaustad to play C for our Gerbe maybe he can play wing). Gerbe played with Gaustad and, not surprisingly, late in the season also with Mancari. Edit: Brian Boyle would be a perfect centre if we want Schroeder on the wing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO8!! Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 OMG your stupid, he was down in Winnipeg when he had those players. What has he developed since he has come up to the NHL? Seems to me you just proved his point, aren't all of those players playing for him now in the NHL? Would that not mean he has followed their development process the whole way(ie. through both the AHL and the NHL) and now they are solid players. You could argue he isn't great coaching offensive players I guess, as it seems the only guys he develops create offense out of their defense like Kesler, but that he hasn't developed anyone since he came to the NHL is a little off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Assassin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Well, if he does go to Chicago, I'd like to see an Archibald-Schroeder-Grenier line. Mark Mancari would be better for Schroeder's development though, since he's an AHL vet, so maybe swap him in instead if Mancari gets cut after preseason. If Hodgson makes the Canucks out of camp: Sweatt-Ebbett-Haydar Rodin-Schroeder-Mancari Archibald-Schneider-Grenier Volpatti-Anthony-Doell If Hodgson doesn't make the Canucks out of camp: Sweatt-Hodgson-Haydar Rodin-Ebbet-Grenier Archibald-Schroeder-Mancari Anthony-Doell-Schneider Volpatti As it stands, Chicago has Hodgson, Ebbett, Schroeder, Doell, Schneider & Anthony as potential centres with Schroeder, Schneider & Anthony all C/W (although the jury is still out on Schroeder's ability to play wing, imo, but if we can find a Gaustad to play C for our Gerbe maybe he can play wing). Gerbe played with Gaustad and, not surprisingly, late in the season also with Mancari. Edit: Brian Boyle would be a perfect centre if we want Schroeder on the wing... Just a quick question about the top line-up... Is Grenier old enough to play in the AHL after being in the CHL last year? Is he in his overage year (20-21 years old) in Quebec should he be returned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Just a quick question about the top line-up... Is Grenier old enough to play in the AHL after being in the CHL last year? Is he in his overage year (20-21 years old) in Quebec should he be returned? He's eligible to play in the AHL next season, as he turns 20 on sept 5th. If he goes back to the mooseheads he'd be in his overage season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutesi Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Little Cliff Ronning played with Momesso and Sandlak who were both huge and it worked like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BureisBest Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Grenier is the prototypical late bloomer. He was definitely a wildcard in this draft and I think many teams had their eye on him and the Canucks bit early to secure the player they want. Nothing wrong with going for a low risk/high reward player in the 3rd round. I was surprised by the pick and did not like it at first, but after further thought I believe it was a calculated risk on a player with natural abilities who according to Patrick Roy is very coachable and trusted in key situations. Some players slip through the cracks...and Grenier was just found by the Remparts. Now who knows how great he can be. As far as where he plays next year, I don't mind any spot. Q, ECHL, AHL, NHL. Wherever his game warrants is where he will be suiting up. He has a lot of growing to do still and will be in the pros next year if not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 he's got mad hops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22sedins33 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 he's got mad hops! That's an understatement... holy jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I'm now going to refer to him as "Hops Greener". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think the ECHL should be better utilized as a developmental league to get second tier prospects big minutes against fully developed players. Powerforwards often play overage years in junior. But the problem is they can use their size much more to their advantage than in the AHL. Once they make it pro they usually get stuck in a 4th line AHL role and are forced to play their way up to a top 6 spot. Problem is a lot of these guys aren't snipers and when the can't dominate physically, the chances of them putting up points with other 4th liners is slim. Powerforwards are best when they play are with highly skilled players. They hit, create space, and go to the net. Players like Grabner shoot shoot shoot, creating chances in front. A big guy with hands can really feed off those chances and score 20-30 goals by just fighting their way to loose pucks. Best place for Grenier would be top line in the ECHL. Even if he is the 7th best forward on the team I think players who are young and drafted should get ample opportunity to succeed in scoring roles in lower leagues. Time in all sorts of roles is also great, even if a player like Grenier rarely kills penalties or does shootouts in the NHL. Is it fair? No. But if I am running an NHL team I would want my 21 year old powerforward on the top line scoring 20 goals over a 29 year old career minor leaguer scoring 25-30 goals. It isn't really fair, but it makes sense from a developmental standpoint. The Salmon Kings had only one Canucks prospect on the team (Taylor Ellington). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman92 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think he ends up back in jr. I love the pick and think he'll be a pretty good player but he might have the skinnyest upper body at the camp. I'm not sure how he'll fair against men right now. Let him hit the gym and put up huge numbers playing 20 min a night in halifax. Next season see if he's ready for the 3rd/2nd line and if not send him to chicago to play top 6 min. I think gillis may have stolen a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think the ECHL should be better utilized as a developmental league to get second tier prospects big minutes against fully developed players. Powerforwards often play overage years in junior. But the problem is they can use their size much more to their advantage than in the AHL. Once they make it pro they usually get stuck in a 4th line AHL role and are forced to play their way up to a top 6 spot. Problem is a lot of these guys aren't snipers and when the can't dominate physically, the chances of them putting up points with other 4th liners is slim. Powerforwards are best when they play are with highly skilled players. They hit, create space, and go to the net. Players like Grabner shoot shoot shoot, creating chances in front. A big guy with hands can really feed off those chances and score 20-30 goals by just fighting their way to loose pucks. Best place for Grenier would be top line in the ECHL. Even if he is the 7th best forward on the team I think players who are young and drafted should get ample opportunity to succeed in scoring roles in lower leagues. Time in all sorts of roles is also great, even if a player like Grenier rarely kills penalties or does shootouts in the NHL. Is it fair? No. But if I am running an NHL team I would want my 21 year old powerforward on the top line scoring 20 goals over a 29 year old career minor leaguer scoring 25-30 goals. It isn't really fair, but it makes sense from a developmental standpoint. The Salmon Kings had only one Canucks prospect on the team (Taylor Ellington). I'd agree in Grenier's case. if he's not top 9 in the wolves I'd like to see him on the top line in the ECHL, moreso than him having an overage year in the Q and risk him picking up bad habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Grigorenko, the #1 ranked center for 2012 draft, is going to Grenier's team Quebec Remparts, so he might get the chance to play with one of the top 3 picks in next year's draft if he stays in the QMJHL. Grigorenko is also a power forward at 6'3" so might be a good fit with Grenier if he gets to play with him. Grigorenko would create plenty of chances in front of the net for Grenier to clean up, or set Grenier up for good opportunities. That is, if Grenier gets to play with Grigorenko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BureisBest Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Grigorenko, the #1 ranked center for 2012 draft, is going to Grenier's team Quebec Remparts, so he might get the chance to play with one of the top 3 picks in next year's draft if he stays in the QMJHL. Grigorenko is also a power forward at 6'3" so might be a good fit with Grenier if he gets to play with him. Grigorenko would create plenty of chances in front of the net for Grenier to clean up, or set Grenier up for good opportunities. That is, if Grenier gets to play with Grigorenko. Grenier is property of Halifax Mooseheads now and if he is back in Q will not be playing with Grigorenko if Mikhail decides to come to Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Grenier is property of Halifax Mooseheads now and if he is back in Q will not be playing with Grigorenko if Mikhail decides to come to Q. Wow that sucks. Does Halifax have any legit players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BureisBest Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Wow that sucks. Does Halifax have any legit players? They have one very good player, Martin Frk. He will be a high draft pick this coming year. Two other good players they have are Luca Ciampini and Andrew Ryan, both expected to be decent draft picks this year. Another draft pick of ours Sawyer Hannay is on the team too. Maybe Grenier can continue to grow next year and help them get some more wins. He should get big minutes with some good young players if he is playing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one night Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Seems to me you just proved his point, aren't all of those players playing for him now in the NHL? Would that not mean he has followed their development process the whole way(ie. through both the AHL and the NHL) and now they are solid players. You could argue he isn't great coaching offensive players I guess, as it seems the only guys he develops create offense out of their defense like Kesler, but that he hasn't developed anyone since he came to the NHL is a little off the mark. [/quote) All I am saying is that since AV has coached the canucks he has not played 1st year players with the exception of Tanev which was due to injuries. For instance, why do you play Bolduc in the CUP Final in lieu of Hodgson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canvoucer Vanuck Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well, looks like stud-in-the-making Nathan MacKinnon has been traded to Halifax, so together with Frk and Grigorenko Grenier should have some real talent to work with and put up big points. Look for him to dominate offensively next year. Lots of pure skill right there. Then Hannay can step in if goons try to rough them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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