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#2281 Sharpshooter

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 04:41 PM

After reading the discussion and suggestions about the FO Budgets, here's what I get out if it:

Sharpie has the most convoluted way of saying, "I screwed up when I was a new GM and didn't realize that if I set my FO budget without any money for my PD then I can't have any minors system. I know it's against the rules but instead of screwing up my organization can I take some from my Medical budget? I'm sorry, I've learned my lesson that I should have asked for advice first. It won't happen again. Please and thanks. "

Instead, you propose to change the system, which works, and phrase it being a question about 'cycles' when in fact there is only one cycle, a year. The system works because it is simple for the League to maintain, for GMs to understand and to customize/distinguish your organization the way you want to. If there is any change to the system it should be that there is only one date that all teams must have their budget in, say Oct 1st, so that a GM must plan ahead rather than be reactionary.

In this instance, if Sharpie were to change his approach to the issue, I would be ok with him taking from his Medical to put into PD because I can't imagine any organization not putting money into a minors system. That would be unbelievably negligent and could harm a franchise for years.

Next time, try asking for advice first, as was put in my original post, admit a mistake and rather than trying to shift the burden if responsibility away from yourself.

That's my take.



I'll edit my post based on what CoNie said.....you know unless there is some other ulterior motive that I really edited it.....dun dun dunnn.....what a joke.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 24 August 2011 - 05:26 PM.

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#2282 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 05:14 PM

Before this gets out of hand guys, please save the drama. For the record I agreed with Sharpie's thoughts on timing but do also agree his approach including his last post could have been better articulated. If these are any personal issues, we don't need them in the public eye, you guys can sort them out via PM.

I know both of you are strongly opinionated people but let's consider the game of the entire game and all it's participants before we turn this into more than it has to be.
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VOTE FOR EDLER!

And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2283 theminister

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 06:16 PM

Before this gets out of hand guys, please save the drama. For the record I agreed with Sharpie's thoughts on timing but do also agree his approach including his last post could have been better articulated. If these are any personal issues, we don't need them in the public eye, you guys can sort them out via PM.

I know both of you are strongly opinionated people but let's consider the game of the entire game and all it's participants before we turn this into more than it has to be.



As a League Executive it is my job to consider what is for the good of the game. This means weighing the considerations of 30 GMs, many of which have played this game for 2 years and have never complained about the rules but have sought to improve it whether that benefited them or not.

That job includes keeping the integrity of the rules and, in this instance, it appears to me that the request to have the rules altered are not for the greater good of the game but were intended to help a single GM out of a jam of his own design albeit unintentional. If any cared to notice, I said "Yes" that I think it would be better for the good of the game to bend the rule but not to change it.

When we have a discussion in the thread about improvements then everything is open for debate and unless there is an overwhelming response to change a rule then it is unnecessary to do so and unlikely to happen. With regards to this conversation about FO budgets, the argument to change the system to include 2 dates rather than one was very plainly illustrated to help one, or maybe 2, GMs and would not benefit the body of the League. As greensman pointed out, it's a simple system that experienced GMs now how to time to push their organization in the direction that they want. The proposal didn't properly display how the system change would help all 30 GMs and make the game better. If anything it makes it harder to control, more work for the League (which we don't need) and is superfluous to the vast majority of the League.

If there is anything personal about this it is not from my end. I may call it as I see it but I leave the schoolyard stuff to others.
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#2284 Aixtek

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 06:34 PM

It's funny this is an issue... C2X said don't change your FO budget because they might make some changes to the way it works... Until I hear C2X say the FO budget is going to opperate next year like THIS, I consider everyone's budget to be completely meaningless....

Personally, I think it does need to be fixed - but not on when the timing for changing it is. Once a year, during the off season is good. I'd rather agents deal with FA signings then changing FO budgets multiple times a year. The problem I see with the front office is the money seems to be all over the place. If I have a couple mill left over, there's no point in tossing it into medical if I don't reach the next platue. So my suggest, which I already tossed to C2X (and he wasn't that enthusiastic) was this - which I'm tossing out to you guys just to spark some CONSTRUCTIVE (yet not necessarily sober) conversation.

why not just make each of the 4 areas have 5 rankings and give GMs 9 points to spend (currently you have 72mil total available - 18mil x 4, and 35 mil to spend)Then set the rankings something like...
Legal
- RFA's more likely to sign at 5-15% discount
- UFA's more likely to sign at 5-15% discount
- Players more likely to not want NMC/NTCs
- players more likely to take 5-10% long term discounts
- players more likely to take 10-20% home town discounts
Medical/Training Facilities
- 'out indefinitely' can be placed on IR.
- 'expected to miss... more then a month' can be placed on IR.
- 'expected to miss...more then a week' can be placed on IR.
- 'day to day' can be placed on IR.
Player Relations
- players more willing to re-sign with your club.
- players more likely to waive NTC/NMC to join your club.
- players more likely to waive NTC/NMC to be traded if asked.
- facility upgrades make your club more attractive to free agents.
Player Development
- each point gives +4mil cap space for minor team, each team starts at 4mil (range would be 4-20mil with 0-5 points being spent)

Or something along those lines...obviously there are still a few holes



On a side note, I think Sharpie should be punished with having no minor league team this season... instead, he'll have to loan out his prospects for the year... the Miami Nukes have a few openings.
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#2285 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 07:57 PM

Before this gets out of hand guys, please save the drama. For the record I agreed with Sharpie's thoughts on timing but do also agree his approach including his last post could have been better articulated. If these are any personal issues, we don't need them in the public eye, you guys can sort them out via PM.

I know both of you are strongly opinionated people but let's consider the game of the entire game and all it's participants before we turn this into more than it has to be.

This

If someone steps out of line or starts going off or any number of other things how about a PM rather than a spanking in the thread. I would say the same goes the other way. If there's a gripe (which isn't what SS was doing so please don't think that is what I'm talking about) then PM it to one of the leaders. I would also include other GM's spouting off in the thread about what should be happening. I mean if we're talking about keeping a modicum of professionalism in this game then lets not play king of the sandbox. I like the fun although it does get out of line at times and in those times should be dealt with more like a Gillis and less like a Burke. (also not directed at anyone in particular rather everyone.)

This league is a lot of fun with great people new and old from what I see in the previously locked thread. Seems the exodus earlier in the summer weeded out the problems and I quite like how this league works overall. Although if I make one suggestion it's that after winning 2 cups in a row a gm starts with negative 500 points.

Having just completely done the opposite of what I am saying allow me to shut up.

Also I can't find it but I remember somebody saying something about the option to buy out players before the season starts. Can someone refresh my memory if that is happening or not and perhaps how that situation looks in terms of roster and cap.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 24 August 2011 - 07:58 PM.

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#2286 OurTimeToShine

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 08:22 PM

Rumor:

Johnathon Bernier is still available for either a young NHL forward or young NHL d-man!


PM me!!

Edited by OurTimeToShine, 24 August 2011 - 08:31 PM.

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Intoewsables :wub: 


#2287 y0shi

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:37 PM

The only complaint I have with the current system is, like Aitek said, the numbers don't add up exactly if you want to reach the next level of a certain area you want to improve. However, I just pool it all into my minor league budget.

One of the things I didn't forsee last year was the need for quite a large budget in my minor league system. I picked 9M last year because I wanted to add more into Player Relations, and ended up having to shuffle prospects back/forth (guys like De Haan, Rodin) because of their higher cap hits, just so my MINORS budget would be balanced. This year, I made sacrifices in certain areas to make my Minors budget bigger. I already PM'ed c2x with my updates in like June, so unless there are rule changes, I won't be changing my budget. For what it's worth, I think this system is fine, and would prefer to keep it.

It's honestly a really simple system, and I would think it is okay (if it is with the commish/agents) to allow the new GM's who werent' quite familiar with the system to get some sort of leeway right now, rather than just before the season starts. That way, everyone will have appropriate budgets, and certain GM's won't get burned in prospects signings just because they weren't able to fully grasp what each area really meant.
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#2288 theminister

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:30 AM

I can see Aixtek's point about symmetry in the FO budgets but what Yoshi described is the exact reason that is is not.

Left over monies should be put into your PD, if you have any, so that there is roster flexibility throughout the league.

While one team may be tight up against both the Pro and Minor cap another will not be. This improves room for trades to happen and allows GMs to collectively increase the depth of team rosters league wide.

My only reticence is that theoretically some teams can still have no Minor's budget which is impractical and unworkable. The minors IMHO should have a minimum amount.
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#2289 Sharpshooter

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 01:07 AM

I suggest there be a better primer or f.a.q. for the front office. That way, if there are any new GM's that come on board in the future, they'll hopefully have a more complete understanding of the workings and ramifications of each area of the overall budget, with examples and/or scenarios to assist them in making sound decisions. It may still be of assistance to any recent GM who hasn't set their budget, as well.

I don't mind volunteering some time to do so, if others feel it's worth doing.
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#2290 y0shi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:05 AM

Man that poll is even... I'm surprised the Jets have more votes than the Leafs, because the Jets are just AWFUL right now and the Leafs have made some great moves this off-season.
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#2291 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:42 AM

Man that poll is even... I'm surprised the Jets have more votes than the Leafs, because the Jets are just AWFUL right now and the Leafs have made some great moves this off-season.

Yeah I think the leafs are going to surprise a lot of people this year.

Solid between the pipes, a more than efficient D and pretty good offense. I doubt they are going to be the bottom feeders we're all used to. If Phaneuf gets himself back to form and if Reimer is the real deal that team makes a real push for the playoffs.

I had to look twice when I saw Columbus and New York on the list. I don't see either of those teams improving. Still a bit of time before the season starts but we'll see.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 25 August 2011 - 10:48 AM.

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#2292 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:43 AM

Man that poll is even... I'm surprised the Jets have more votes than the Leafs, because the Jets are just AWFUL right now and the Leafs have made some great moves this off-season.

The Leafs made "great" moves in the off-season? The best player they added was Cody Franson. He will not carry the team to the playoffs. They also added 2 big salary oft-concussed centers that likely won't play 82 games this season.... combined.

The Jets have a solid core and if Pavelec can hold up the season and Kane, Burmistrov continue to improve, they have a decent shot finish 8th or better.
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And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2293 y0shi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:26 AM

The Leafs made "great" moves in the off-season? The best player they added was Cody Franson. He will not carry the team to the playoffs. They also added 2 big salary oft-concussed centers that likely won't play 82 games this season.... combined.

The Jets have a solid core and if Pavelec can hold up the season and Kane, Burmistrov continue to improve, they have a decent shot finish 8th or better.


Players coming off of injuries are high-risk, but also high-reward. San Jose picked up Boyle after an injury-riddled season and he's one of the best D in the league. All the recent acquisitions like Lupul last year, and Connolly, Lombardi, and Franson this year all will make the team better. The only advantage I would give the Jets is that they're still in the weaker division.

I'd be surprised if the Jets are still in contention at the trade deadline. Call me a skeptic, but I honestly don't see them being competitive for another 2-3 years.
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#2294 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:46 AM

Players coming off of injuries are high-risk, but also high-reward. San Jose picked up Boyle after an injury-riddled season and he's one of the best D in the league. All the recent acquisitions like Lupul last year, and Connolly, Lombardi, and Franson this year all will make the team better. The only advantage I would give the Jets is that they're still in the weaker division.

I'd be surprised if the Jets are still in contention at the trade deadline. Call me a skeptic, but I honestly don't see them being competitive for another 2-3 years.

Difference is, Boyle has played less than 76 games just once since 2002, the injury-riddled season you mentioned. Tim Connolly hasn't played more than 73 games since 2003. Players coming of injured seasons are high reward if it's an isolated injury. For Connolly, he's one hit away from ending his career.
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And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2295 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:49 AM

QUESTION: Which top line is best?

Sabres: Burrows - Giroux - Willaims
Oilers: Backes - B. Richards - Stewart
Red Wings: Parise - Duchene - Benn
Islanders: Franzen - Zetterberg - Sharp
Devils: Ryan - Kopitar - Perry
Bruins: Sedin - Sedin - Stafford
Rangers: Vanek - Thornton - Antropov
Penguins: Heatley - Staal/Stamkos - Penner
Sharks: Galiardi - Getzlaf/Toews - Bourque
Canucks: Nash - Crosby - Kane
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And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2296 y0shi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:53 AM

Difference is, Boyle has played less than 76 games just once since 2002, the injury-riddled season you mentioned. Tim Connolly hasn't played more than 73 games since 2003. Players coming of injured seasons are high reward if it's an isolated injury. For Connolly, he's one hit away from ending his career.


When Connolly has been healthy, he's always been productive. I have no problem taking a chance on him. And Connolly isn't brought in to be the team. He's there to support Kessel.
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#2297 Bombastik der Teutone

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:56 AM

QUESTION: Which top line is best?

Sabres: Burrows - Giroux - Willaims
Oilers: Backes - B. Richards - Stewart
Red Wings: Parise - Duchene - Benn
Islanders: Franzen - Zetterberg - Sharp
Devils: Ryan - Kopitar - Perry
Bruins: Sedin - Sedin - Stafford
Rangers: Vanek - Thornton - Antropov
Penguins: Heatley - Staal/Stamkos - Penner
Sharks: Galiardi - Getzlaf/Toews - Bourque
Canucks: Nash - Crosby - Kane


Blues: Morrow-Weiss-Iginla :D

Im off untill 9/2....vacations...well deserved :D
i want to wish you guys/girls lots of fun during this time and may something great will
happen here while im gone. nobody knows... :P
I hope there will be some news on the free agent market when im back.
Further the St.Louis Blues are off for trades from now..so please no offers untill the trading deadline..thanks!

Greets...TGC
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#2298 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:05 PM

When Connolly has been healthy, he's always been productive. I have no problem taking a chance on him. And Connolly isn't brought in to be the team. He's there to support Kessel.

When is a key word.

And I'm sure he will play a ton of minutes and on the PP when he is in the line-up. He will not be a support player.
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And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2299 Venom52

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:10 PM

Toews is on the RW, so it will Be Bourque-Getzlaf-Toews
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#2300 canuck2xtreme

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:18 PM

Also I can't find it but I remember somebody saying something about the option to buy out players before the season starts. Can someone refresh my memory if that is happening or not and perhaps how that situation looks in terms of roster and cap.


Going to try and sidestep the controversy for now, as I'm off in a bit to pick up the missus and the little man from the airport in a few hours.

Yes, there will be a second one week buyout window starting on Sept. 1st. Details to be released shortly.
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#2301 Ace of Spades

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:27 PM

QUESTION: Which top line is best?

Sabres: Burrows - Giroux - Willaims
Oilers: Backes - B. Richards - Stewart
Red Wings: Parise - Duchene - Benn
Islanders: Franzen - Zetterberg - Sharp
Devils: Ryan - Kopitar - Perry
Bruins: Sedin - Sedin - Stafford
Rangers: Vanek - Thornton - Antropov
Penguins: Heatley - Staal/Stamkos - Penner
Sharks: Galiardi - Getzlaf/Toews - Bourque
Canucks: Nash - Crosby - Kane


Nash - Crosby - Kane

A line like that in real life would be downright scary.
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#2302 y0shi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 12:35 PM

Avery - Marleau - Okposo getting no love? Posted Image

In all seriousness, I'm not done making moves, and my top-6 is fluid.
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#2303 Ovechkinator

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 01:34 PM

How can Ovechkin - Stastny - Kessel not make that list.
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#2304 canuck2xtreme

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:13 PM

How can Ovechkin - Stastny - Kessel not make that list.


The bolded answers your question :P
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#2305 Ovechkinator

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:31 PM

The bolded answers your question :P

Haha personally I really like him. He is a good player the expectations he is under in Toronto to be more than he is ( a 30-40 goal guy) has to be tough to handle and he still performs through it. He gets a lot of unnecessary criticism IMO, ye he isn't great defensively but everyone has their flaws. Also is it just me or is he exactly like Toby from the office haha
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#2306 da.moose

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:12 PM

(REPORT): The Washington Capitals are still looking to add one more full time NHL defenseman to their roster. The Caps have added Mark Fayne this offseason who is expected to be a full time NHL player but General Manager da.moose wants rookies like Philip Larsen, Ryan Ellis, Tim Erixon, and Simon Despres to have to earn NHL spots as opposed to just have them handed to them. One roster spot at least will be held open for at least one of these players but da.moose would feel much more comfortable to have some insurance as opposed to be stuck in a position where one of these guys needs to be rushed into the league before he is ready.

That being said, if any team is looking to dump off a defenseman with a fairly big salary that expires within the next two seasons send me a message and we might be able to work something out.
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#2307 Mike Vanderhoek

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:15 PM

Nash - Crosby - Kane

A line like that in real life would be downright scary.




Nash and Crosby id agree with, however Kane puts that line a notch below New Jersey's for sure. Can't beat the combination of speed, skill, and size that Bobby Ryan, Anze Kopitar, and Rocket Richard winner Corey Perry bring to the table Posted Image

The correct answer is New Jersey.
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#2308 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:46 PM

Going to try and sidestep the controversy for now, as I'm off in a bit to pick up the missus and the little man from the airport in a few hours.

Yes, there will be a second one week buyout window starting on Sept. 1st. Details to be released shortly.

Meh controversy schmontroversy it seems like more of a misunderstanding based on assumptions. DOesn't even matter.

Thanks for answering the question though. I readily await these details.
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#2309 Champions of Nothing

Champions of Nothing

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:57 PM

How can Ovechkin - Stastny - Kessel not make that list.

Because Kessel is listed a center I did not include him. For most of these I just took the best C, LW and RW from each team unless it was recently posted in this thread.
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VOTE FOR EDLER!

And might as well vote for Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Luongo and..... I guess Aaron Rome?


#2310 b3.

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 07:09 PM

Heads up.


You guys will need to find a new General Manager for the Pittsburgh Penguins.
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