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Why Alain Vigneault doesn’t stand a chance in 2011/12


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#31 Stick-in-Rink

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:47 PM

I fully agree with this post..

I'm not a AV hater like those begging to have him fired after every loss, but the OP's support really raises good points. I'll be quite content when AV is gone and someone that will be able to motivate the group of guys while giving everyone a fair chance and minutes is able to coach the team.

I'm just not sure if MG is feeling the same way.. He doesn't seem like the type to put AV on a short leash..

But I guess only time will tell.

#32 surtur

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:03 AM

he will be here unless we don't make the playoffs

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#33 Pineapples

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:24 AM

Seriously, what is the matter with some of you? Expecting AV to be fired? Looking forward for it? You people make me sick!

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#34 Canucks_ForDaCup

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

<br />I agree with much of this comment about AV being on a short leash in terms of he should be on a short leash but I doubt he is with MG unfortunately. Time will tell. As for the Linden situation it is 100% accurate! Same for Hodgson. Same for Ballard. Same for Rome. Same for Sedins spending too much time on the bench due to no penalty killing. AV is even keeled, and a good coach...not a great coach. His teams are often wound so tight they can't breathe, and clutch their sticks ridiculously tight. That's his trademark as a coach...every team he's coached has displayed that and unfortunately coaching(and injuries) were the Canucks nemesis in the playoffs. The players almost overcame his poor coaching but when injuries piled up they simply ran out of gas and he couldn't help them at all. He was badly &quot;out media manipulated&quot; by Julien,and by  Quenneville too. He was great when the series were 0-0 but failed miserably in coaching and preparation for when they had a lead. He had no answers or counterattacks to deal with other teams coaching. A new, winning, coach is needed to get them over the hump...but who? If none are available...AV will stay, and the Canucks will gradually recede from their lofty year to middle of the pack.<br />


To be honest I thought AV handled Corey Schneider's first start in the playoffs against Chicago really well. He protected Schneider from the Media's scrutiny therefore giving him time and peace to prepare for his first career playoff start.

#35 wrath_jason

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:26 AM

I have a feeling Mike Gillis and Alain will be at the helm for a long time. Long after even Kesler's current contract has expired, and regardless of how they do the first half, or the last half, Coach V will remain. He's been a major part of the rebuilding and will continue to be in the coming seasons.


and for the record
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Edited by wrath_jason, 27 July 2011 - 12:27 AM.


#36 Barney Stinson

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:26 AM

And then we hire MacTavish :3
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#37 van19

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:47 AM

AV's the best coach in Canuck's history whether you like it or not.
20 other teams would love to have him.

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#38 bAsRa17

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:50 AM

I think it is for sure time for a different coach.

#39 PistolPete13

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:52 AM

You're entitled to your opinion and there are no shortage of AV haters out there despite the successful run that he has had here to date. How easy would it be to hire a top quality coach if a guy who came within one win of the Cup and has racked up numerous winning seasons isn't good enough and gets fired? If the team has plays .500 for the first few months, fire the coach? If the every player on the team doesn't love the coach, then get rid of the coach?
Following your logic, coaches like Scotty Bowman and Al Arbour wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of seasons.

AV is a good fit for the Canucks and he has grown into the job. Who would you replace him with? Meanwhile if you need to fire someone, how does 0 for 4 sound? And what about the guy now running the soccer team; he's not much better than the other guy they already fired. You think that Canucks have problems? Sure let's make Vancouver a coaches graveyard in all sports.

 

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#40 Rypien.It.Up.

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:18 AM

1) The PO said both those things... Derpty derp derp.

2) He was still quite beastly, it was a total mistake. Having Linden as part of this organization now, as a player or not, would have helped tons in the finals this year.

How can you say 2), honestly. I love Trevor Linden hes my hero but just by having him in the Canucks organization would of helped is stupid. What if he is just scouting with Gradin or something. How the hell is that gonna help them play the game...
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#41 fanzone2010

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:31 AM



Definitely an interesting topic to discuss. AV makes mistakes, but he is only human after all. I think it would be a mistake to fire AV, not only because I think he is a good coach, but also because finding someone that has more experience and reputation would be next to impossible. On the other hand fresh opinions on players and styles of play would be fantastic. We were so close to the cup, I think MG should spend a bit more money and get us more opinions in the war room.


It's great that MG doesn't overreact obviously. But we definitely have a few things we can improve on (Players and management positions alike), which I'm sure MG is working on. I expect great things from GM of the year this upcoming season.



#42 tha elite

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:56 AM

:picard: ... really?

then how bout we also get rid of the Sedins, Kesler and Luongo!!! o and then fire Gillis and hire you as the GM!!!

who in their right mind would ever fire a coach that coached a team to a president's trophy, and an appearance in a stanley cup final game 7? how is it EVER AV's fault that we lost? our top 2 d-men and 3 forwards on our top 2 lines were so hurt that they not only count practice, but Ehrhoff and Edler were taking pain killers before every game.

how the @$@#! could you expect a team to be coached to a cup win when your top 5 - 6 players are so injured??

posts like these really piss me off!!
NHL players developed a habit of hookin up with Avery's sloppy seconds, while Avery developed a habit of hookin up with MINE!!!!

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#43 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 02:05 AM

Coming off his most successful season as a head coach, Alain Vigneault probably isn’t expecting to be fired any time soon. But as reality sets in this fall, watch for the Canucks coach to get terminated as early as November.

Why are the odds stacked against a man who brought the Canucks to within one game of the ultimate prize, not to mention the club’s first ever President’s Trophy? He will soon become a victim of his own success:

• The Canucks traditionally have slow starts to the season. After last spring’s post season, there will be high expectations and low amounts of patience should the Canucks come out of the gates in their normal 0.500 fashion

• Teams will be paying special attention to the Canucks, given the team’s regular and post-season track records last year

By about the 20-game mark, in this hockey-crazed market, if the Canucks aren’t within the top eight seeds in their conference, Alain Vigneault will become extremely expendable by fans, media, and management.

While he has broken countless coaching records in his tenure with the club since his debut in 2006/07, Alain has also had his moments of controversy, that, when compiled over six years, gives more incentive to bring fresh perspectives behind the bench.

Reasons Alain’s departure will appeal to fans, media and management:

Rocky relationships: While Alain’s personality has blended in a complimentary fashion with several Canucks, he has also created tension among a select few who would benefit under a new head coach. In particular, Keith Ballard, who has the potential to be a cornerstone of the Canucks’ defence, has yet to have the confidence instilled in him by his head coach. Cody Hodgson is another potential franchise player who has been used so sparingly when called up that he no doubt questions the coach’s confidence in his abilities.

New approaches: We’ve seen several Canucks blossom into stars during Vigneault’s term, in large part to how he has afforded them opportunities to grow. But some may say he has also stifled key players in the particular roles he lays out for them. For instance, if the referees call a one-sided game against the Canucks, the Sedins ride the pine for too long. A new coach would mean a new approach using existing players.

Addressing overprized favourites: Aaron Rome. Do I really need to say more on that?

The Linden factor: While he would never admit it, Trevor Linden is not interested in having a role with the Canucks organization while Alain Vigneault is associated with the club. Trevor will speak highly of Alain when asked about his coaching abilities, but resentment persists in Trevor towards a coach who refused to play him for any length of time, despite his proven worth and continued ability to play a strong role on the team. Below the surface of his class and dignity, his dissatisfaction with the coach ultimately led him to retire two seasons before he wanted to – and he only announced his retirement once he was sure Alain wasn’t being fired, in June, 2008, well after the Canucks finished their season, a season that saw Trevor as a healthy scratch for 24 games. If Alain is terminated, it opens up new windows of opportunity in having Trevor Linden a member of the organization, in some capacity.

My prediction: look for Alain Vigneault’s departure by the last week of November. Not that I didn’t think he did a great job in many aspects, but I have a feeling his end with the Canucks is much closer than most think.

Thoughts?


I don't see AV getting fired that early next season, if at all. Don't you think the management will also be expecting a slow start? I think they are well aware of that and the insignificance of it. If he does get fired next season it will be past the mid-season point if they are struggling in the standings. Firing a coach after getting to the finals doesn't make alot of sense if things continue to go well.

I think teams have been paying 'special' attention to the Canucks for quite some time now, they've been dominating their division and sitting high in the West for years now. Teams have been coming at them hard all the while yet the Canucks still dominate. I don't expect that much of a difference in that regard.

Of course the fans and media are gonna be circling him like vultures, they do that year round. Thankfully management know what they're doing and don't pay any attention to it. I would like to see a new face behind the bench with a fresh approach and new ideas too but only at the right time when it makes sense and their is a good enough replacement to be had. His tenure is getting long winded but I don't get the sense the core group are tuning him out, they like him. He knows his players better each year and to me that can be more valuable than bringing in someone just for the sake of a change, why change things if they are going good? It could be a big mistake.

Every coach will create some tension and stifle certain players, bring in a new coach and the same thing will happen. I think AV is a fair coach who rewards hard work and results. He wants to ice the best team possible. Ballard will get his chance this season, so will Hodgson. If they don't perform, how is that AV's fault?

Do you have any proof of that about Linden and AV? Linden really wasn't contributing his last season anyway, so how can you blame a coach who wants to ice the best possible team?

#44 fanzone2010

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 02:08 AM

I totally agree with the post. I think AV has to go if the Canucks are ever going to have a chance to win the cup.

Last year was the team's best shot ever. The Canucks were clearly the best team in the league. President's trophy winners. The Sedins and Kesler in their prime. Deep at every position. A dozen points better than the closest team in the standings. And once again AV got out-coached in the playoffs, this time, by Julien. The last two years by Quenneville.

AV made so many tragic mistakes in the final series. Letting Luongo and Kesler dictate when they were playing were two of them. In the games when Luongo was getting bombed, AV could have given the team a chance by bringing Schneider in earlier in those games, or trying starting him in Boston to shake up the team. If AV had held Kesler out of the first game of the series, it would have given the center almost an week extra rest (with the crazy schedule) and a chance to heal his groin, and be effective for the rest of the series. By not doing that, we basically lost our best weapon next to the Sedin's for the entire series. Do you think Scotty Bowman or any of the great coaches would have ever been that stupid?

When the power play wasn't working, AV failed to make adjustments to get it going. Then he let the Boston players manhandle the Canucks, with no one sticking up for the Sedins. The three games the Canucks won, they came out hitting, and carried the momentum, making Boston fight to gain the zone. The four games they lost, the team didn't hit. Period. The Bruins took the body EVERY GAME. But AV never called one time out, to demand the team play physically in the games they lost. In game 7, it was clear to anyone who had watched the series, that the team was going to lose, after the first two minutes of the game. Vancouver wasn't hitting and basically surrendered their zone from the opening faceoff. The momentum swung to the Bruins immediately. And not one peep from AV. Not one time out. Nada.

The bottom line is, AV's a decent regular season coach. That's it. He's not exceptional. Just decent. That's why Montreal fired him after a couple seasons. He's been blessed with three of the best players in the league the last few seasons, in the Sedins & Kesler, and MG has given him a wonderfully, deep supporting cast. But he's consistently out-coached in the playoffs. And this off season, many of the other teams have gotten better and deeper, while we've got worse, with the loss of Erhoff,a premiere rushing defencemen (50 points) and Torres.

I hate to say it, but with AV behind the bench, we may struggle just to make the playoffs this year, like Chicago did last year. If that does happen, it might be a blessing in disguise, if it results in MG finally letting AV go, and bringing in someone who can match strategies and smarts in the playoffs. If that happens, and we also pick up Shea Weber and Zach Parise in free agency next year (as some have suggested MG may be planning to do) we may be able to rebound and go all the way in 2013: which I'm praying for, because the Sedins aren't getting any younger, and our window to dominate or at least be a contender will begin to close within a few years.

#45 CaNuCkSLoUiE23

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 02:18 AM

Has everyone forgotten that we were one game away from winning the Cup? Why are we even thinking about firing a coach who brought that much success to our hockey club? No team flukes 15 wins during the playoffs... :emot-parrot:

Did you read the post?

#46 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 02:23 AM

Honestly I think Gillis is calling most of the shots anyways. i think the coach mostly follows that direction. So i don't think a coaching change is necessary because AV is or isn't a good coach. It's because he's the same coach and this team has grown to it's limits with him. I see the playoffs as a good indication of team development. Yes this team has improved it's record. But people tend to neglect to realize how lucky he has been having the benefit of very generous owners & a patient GM so willing to acquire players to custom fill positions every year.

I think coaching is an area this team can drastically improve. See the difference in the PP last season. Same players, different coach. Now imagine that difference in playoff performance.
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#47 BI3KSA-

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:16 AM

How can you say 2), honestly. I love Trevor Linden hes my hero but just by having him in the Canucks organization would of helped is stupid. What if he is just scouting with Gradin or something. How the hell is that gonna help them play the game...


I'm having a hard time figuring out whether this is a joke or a serious opinion... Having Linden as a scout wouldn't be worthless, he is a high caliber player that can see high caliber attributes in players that might become, well, high caliber. That aside, I obviously didn't mean 'Hey guys lets get Linden as a scout"... I meant that he could have been a part of our stanley cup run. He would have been one of the only guys with that kind of experience in the playoffs and to top it off he was the captain at the time. Also he could have thrown out some tips and helped develop some of our players practices like Sundin did etc. There is tons of good Linden could have done if he would have stayed a part of our organization. We gained nothing from burning that bridge and losing him and and basically lost out on a lot of great things he could have done.

I totally agree with the post. I think AV has to go if the Canucks are ever going to have a chance to win the cup.

Last year was the team's best shot ever. The Canucks were clearly the best team in the league. President's trophy winners. The Sedins and Kesler in their prime. Deep at every position. A dozen points better than the closest team in the standings. And once again AV got out-coached in the playoffs, this time, by Julien. The last two years by Quenneville.

AV made so many tragic mistakes in the final series. Letting Luongo and Kesler dictate when they were playing were two of them. In the games when Luongo was getting bombed, AV could have given the team a chance by bringing Schneider in earlier in those games, or trying starting him in Boston to shake up the team. If AV had held Kesler out of the first game of the series, it would have given the center almost an week extra rest (with the crazy schedule) and a chance to heal his groin, and be effective for the rest of the series. By not doing that, we basically lost our best weapon next to the Sedin's for the entire series. Do you think Scotty Bowman or any of the great coaches would have ever been that stupid?

When the power play wasn't working, AV failed to make adjustments to get it going. Then he let the Boston players manhandle the Canucks, with no one sticking up for the Sedins. The three games the Canucks won, they came out hitting, and carried the momentum, making Boston fight to gain the zone. The four games they lost, the team didn't hit. Period. The Bruins took the body EVERY GAME. But AV never called one time out, to demand the team play physically in the games they lost. In game 7, it was clear to anyone who had watched the series, that the team was going to lose, after the first two minutes of the game. Vancouver wasn't hitting and basically surrendered their zone from the opening faceoff. The momentum swung to the Bruins immediately. And not one peep from AV. Not one time out. Nada.

The bottom line is, AV's a decent regular season coach. That's it. He's not exceptional. Just decent. That's why Montreal fired him after a couple seasons. He's been blessed with three of the best players in the league the last few seasons, in the Sedins & Kesler, and MG has given him a wonderfully, deep supporting cast. But he's consistently out-coached in the playoffs. And this off season, many of the other teams have gotten better and deeper, while we've got worse, with the loss of Erhoff,a premiere rushing defencemen (50 points) and Torres.

I hate to say it, but with AV behind the bench, we may struggle just to make the playoffs this year, like Chicago did last year. If that does happen, it might be a blessing in disguise, if it results in MG finally letting AV go, and bringing in someone who can match strategies and smarts in the playoffs. If that happens, and we also pick up Shea Weber and Zach Parise in free agency next year (as some have suggested MG may be planning to do) we may be able to rebound and go all the way in 2013: which I'm praying for, because the Sedins aren't getting any younger, and our window to dominate or at least be a contender will begin to close within a few years.


Honestly this post is totally right, except I doubt we will ever get both Shea Weber and Zach Parise. But as for the coaching part, all in all, AV as done great things in the regular season, and he has done fantastic things while developing some of our now "star" players (Rookies are up for debate). But in the playoffs, when coaching is very heavily based on strategy and match ups he totally fails. His all time worst attribute as a coach is his ability to adapt. He absolutely sucks at adapting.

Edited by Kesheniel, 27 July 2011 - 05:29 AM.


#48 BI3KSA-

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:26 AM

Double post

Edited by Kesheniel, 27 July 2011 - 05:27 AM.


#49 Yeria

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:41 AM

The only way he gets fired for sure is if he fails to make the playoffs. If we get bumped in the first round, then Gillis might give serious consideration to replace him. Gillis doesn't act out of emotion and always thoroughly checks for consequences unlike the most people here on CDC.

#50 Yeria

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:29 AM

I totally agree with the post. I think AV has to go if the Canucks are ever going to have a chance to win the cup.

Last year was the team's best shot ever. The Canucks were clearly the best team in the league. President's trophy winners. The Sedins and Kesler in their prime. Deep at every position. A dozen points better than the closest team in the standings. And once again AV got out-coached in the playoffs, this time, by Julien. The last two years by Quenneville.


The Canucks clearly was NOT the best team in the league. We played against Boston only once in regular season and lost. Winning the President's trophy merely suggests that we're one of the best in the league and we are more likely to be the best in the Western Conference. Oh, and since we lost to Boston only, AV beat 3 coaches before he got there, huh? You know, only 2 out of 30 coaches get to do that every year.

AV made so many tragic mistakes in the final series. Letting Luongo and Kesler dictate when they were playing were two of them. In the games when Luongo was getting bombed, AV could have given the team a chance by bringing Schneider in earlier in those games, or trying starting him in Boston to shake up the team. If AV had held Kesler out of the first game of the series, it would have given the center almost an week extra rest (with the crazy schedule) and a chance to heal his groin, and be effective for the rest of the series. By not doing that, we basically lost our best weapon next to the Sedin's for the entire series. Do you think Scotty Bowman or any of the great coaches would have ever been that stupid?

You say AV made so many tragic mistakes, but you can't even list out a single thing. There was one game that we lost 8-1. Anything earlier, we won those games 1-0 and 3-2. Obviously playing Schneider in Game 3 when we were down 4-0 would have given us the chance to come back...NOT. We would have lost that game whoever we had in the net. Does Schneider score goals for us? The reason we lost was because we couldn't score and changing your goaltender doesn't address that issue. Also, letting Luongo and Kesler dictate... well, let's see... our two best players in Sedins are doing nothing, so the coach turns to our next best string of players...in Luongo and Kesler. Wow, holy crap, that was the craziest thing a coach can do. What was AV thinking??

As I say all the time, hindsight is 20/20. The way we played against Boston, we would have lost whether Kesler got the one game break you claim he needed or not. If AV, for some stupid reasons, decided not to play Kesler in the first game and we lost, you will come up with reasons why AV made a mistake by not playing Kesler. In fact, it was much smarter to play Kesler in the first game. The centre is injured and exhausted and missing out one game will not help him so much anyway. Beside, doing so will only mean publicly stating that Kesler is injured. There's nothing good about letting your opponents know that one of our best 2-way forwards is injured.

When the power play wasn't working, AV failed to make adjustments to get it going. Then he let the Boston players manhandle the Canucks, with no one sticking up for the Sedins. The three games the Canucks won, they came out hitting, and carried the momentum, making Boston fight to gain the zone. The four games they lost, the team didn't hit. Period. The Bruins took the body EVERY GAME. But AV never called one time out, to demand the team play physically in the games they lost. In game 7, it was clear to anyone who had watched the series, that the team was going to lose, after the first two minutes of the game. Vancouver wasn't hitting and basically surrendered their zone from the opening faceoff. The momentum swung to the Bruins immediately. And not one peep from AV. Not one time out. Nada.

Right...the dismal power play. So what do you expect your coach to do? Sedins aren't producing, Kesler is playing injured, Malhotra is playing injured and Samuelsson is out for the season. Hey, I know! Let's play Lapierre, Torres and Burrows on the power play!

It's obviously easy for people to yell, make it work! but the fact was that we couldn't. We didn't have enough of good players to make it work, and the last thing you want to do is to start experimenting your power play with a bunch of different combinations against arguably the toughest opponent they faced all season. Also, it was our rule the MANAGEMENT HAS SET UP since the beginning of the season not to chirp and do you blame AV for STICKING WITH THAT PLAN? If anything, the league didn't do a good job of minimizing the chirping and you also got to admit that we were lacking bodies to play physical. Why do you think Gillis is going big bodies all the way during this years off-season? We didn't have the size. Of course, according to you, the timeout was the problem. Calling a timeout magically changes the momentum, right? The 30 seconds timeout just so you can "regroup" is a huge waste. Commentators say "The coach is smart for calling the time out to regroup his team." just way too many times, and feeble minds just blindly believe the timeouts are always the best thing to do when your team isn't doing great.

The bottom line is, AV's a decent regular season coach. That's it. He's not exceptional. Just decent. That's why Montreal fired him after a couple seasons. He's been blessed with three of the best players in the league the last few seasons, in the Sedins & Kesler, and MG has given him a wonderfully, deep supporting cast. But he's consistently out-coached in the playoffs. And this off season, many of the other teams have gotten better and deeper, while we've got worse, with the loss of Erhoff,a premiere rushing defencemen (50 points) and Torres.

So, he was out coached by everyone but lost only to Julien? Ok, so are you saying it was the players all along that won the games and AV hasn't done a single thing to contribute to our winning records? Then doesn't that mean it's also players' fault that they lost to Boston since AV doesn't do anything.

You're basically giving all the credits to players for all the good things, and blaming everything on AV. How does that make any sense? If a coach sucks so much that he is 100% negative to the team, and if Gillis has failed to see that for so many seasons already, then Gillis should be fired too. Your argument is just wrong on so many levels and also self-contradicting.

I hate to say it, but with AV behind the bench, we may struggle just to make the playoffs this year, like Chicago did last year. If that does happen, it might be a blessing in disguise, if it results in MG finally letting AV go, and bringing in someone who can match strategies and smarts in the playoffs. If that happens, and we also pick up Shea Weber and Zach Parise in free agency next year (as some have suggested MG may be planning to do) we may be able to rebound and go all the way in 2013: which I'm praying for, because the Sedins aren't getting any younger, and our window to dominate or at least be a contender will begin to close within a few years.

Joel Quenneville beat us twice and won the cup with Chicago, and you're saying we may struggle this year just like Chicago did last year? Are you saying Quenneville is a horrible coach too? According to you, he out coached AV badly so Quenneville must be a genius and yet he struggled. I wonder why?

Also, what a moronic thing to say we should pick up Weber and Parise to rebound in 2013. It's just the extension of "give all credits to players and none to the coach". If we lost the cup because of AV, as you so proudly claim, why add more pieces? Just replacing the coach should do the job, no?

If we win the cup with a new coach but with Parise and Weber added to our current team, are you going to praise the players or the coach? From the things I've read so far, you're going to say "See? AV was the cancer. I told you so!" No, if we do win the cup with those two players added, it's because our team would get so much better.


This is a party of morons. It's amusing that there are so many people even agreeing with posts like this. It's time to face the fact, and it is clearly written on the wall: Boston was a better team than us and it's time to stop the whining and move on. What we REALLY should be doing is to look for ways to improve this team, and not to blame somebody just because you don't like the person.

#51 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:48 AM

Coming off his most successful season as a head coach, Alain Vigneault probably isn’t expecting to be fired any time soon. But as reality sets in this fall, watch for the Canucks coach to get terminated as early as November.

Why are the odds stacked against a man who brought the Canucks to within one game of the ultimate prize, not to mention the club’s first ever President’s Trophy? He will soon become a victim of his own success:

• The Canucks traditionally have slow starts to the season. After last spring’s post season, there will be high expectations and low amounts of patience should the Canucks come out of the gates in their normal 0.500 fashion


Yeah but if even you can figure out that traditionally this team has slow starts I'm sure Gillis has figured that out. I'm also sure that even given these slow starts he still has garnered how many division titles and a presidents trophy? So yeah...that point sucked.

• Teams will be paying special attention to the Canucks, given the team’s regular and post-season track records last year

By about the 20-game mark, in this hockey-crazed market, if the Canucks aren’t within the top eight seeds in their conference, Alain Vigneault will become extremely expendable by fans, media, and management.



Are you saying teams weren't trying last year but this year they're really really gonna try? Also 20 games is nothing.

While he has broken countless coaching records in his tenure with the club since his debut in 2006/07, Alain has also had his moments of controversy, that, when compiled over six years, gives more incentive to bring fresh perspectives behind the bench.


You're right on the first part and wrong on the second part. The only controversy has been from fans who get to question him after the fact. That's not controversy that's called dealing with adolescence.

Reasons Alain’s departure will appeal to fans, media and management:

Rocky relationships: While Alain’s personality has blended in a complimentary fashion with several Canucks, he has also created tension among a select few who would benefit under a new head coach. In particular, Keith Ballard, who has the potential to be a cornerstone of the Canucks’ defence, has yet to have the confidence instilled in him by his head coach. Cody Hodgson is another potential franchise player who has been used so sparingly when called up that he no doubt questions the coach’s confidence in his abilities.



Ballard will go before AV does if there was tension but there isn't. Ballard had two major setbacks last year and quite frankly coming back from them he looked like $&*^. Ballard was Ballards problem last year and as much as I'm a fan of Ballard I'm not a fanboy; open your eyes.

As far as Cody...young players who aren't ready to play to their potential in the NHL get limited time. It's not a confidence issue or he wouldn't have been called up at all. This is what's called not throwing a player to the wolves. You want Hodgson to turn into the next Pavel Brendl?

New approaches: We’ve seen several Canucks blossom into stars during Vigneault’s term, in large part to how he has afforded them opportunities to grow. But some may say he has also stifled key players in the particular roles he lays out for them. For instance, if the referees call a one-sided game against the Canucks, the Sedins ride the pine for too long. A new coach would mean a new approach using existing players.



This is the only thing we agree on.
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#52 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:49 AM

Addressing overprized favourites: Aaron Rome. Do I really need to say more on that?

Rome is a solid depth D who fills in fine when there are injuries to our blue line. The only people who "over" anything to do with Rome are the mouth breathers here who "over" criticize him. Sorry but last season he was a safer option than Ballard.

The Linden factor: While he would never admit it, Trevor Linden is not interested in having a role with the Canucks organization while Alain Vigneault is associated with the club. Trevor will speak highly of Alain when asked about his coaching abilities, but resentment persists in Trevor towards a coach who refused to play him for any length of time, despite his proven worth and continued ability to play a strong role on the team. Below the surface of his class and dignity, his dissatisfaction with the coach ultimately led him to retire two seasons before he wanted to – and he only announced his retirement once he was sure Alain wasn’t being fired, in June, 2008, well after the Canucks finished their season, a season that saw Trevor as a healthy scratch for 24 games. If Alain is terminated, it opens up new windows of opportunity in having Trevor Linden a member of the organization, in some capacity.

You ever see that video where Linden was being interviewed by Global and he was asked who his favorite coach was? Do you remember his answer? I do...it was AV, and then he went into detail on the reasons. The Linden factor is that Linden was getting old and it was his time. There's no way he had two more years in him to play anywhere in the NHL. The man gave enough and it was his time. Don't use him as some piss poor way to make a point...especially an incorrect one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NWU7JJmFRw

My prediction: look for Alain Vigneault’s departure by the last week of November. Not that I didn’t think he did a great job in many aspects, but I have a feeling his end with the Canucks is much closer than most think.

Thoughts?

How strong is your belief in your prediction? Would you ask the mods to ban you for the rest of the season if he isn't gone by December 1? I guess I'm wondering if you really believe any of the pile of bile you've written here.
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#53 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:52 AM

1) The PO said both those things... Derpty derp derp.

2) He was still quite beastly, it was a total mistake. Having Linden as part of this organization now, as a player or not, would have helped tons in the finals this year.

As much as having Smyl there did?
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#54 beer&meat

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:15 AM

The problem with this post is you take your opinions and predictions and make them sound like they're facts, rather than just speculation by yourself before the season has even started.


This ^
I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs


#55 lancealot

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:26 AM

um, no.

The fans don't fire the coach, the manager does. And why would he fire the coach who has take his team from the mess it was 5 years ago to one win away from the cup, over 20 early season games. Very elaborate thought process though. In all that thinking, I can't believe you didn't realize what a dumb idea it was.
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#56 OrdinaryBoy

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:34 AM

Hmmm...
I think the problem with AV is more percieved than anything. He follows the company line and doesn't give away much of his plans to the media, which fans, including myself, kind of resent.
Mike Gillis has a lot of faith in AV, as AV did manage to coax a 50+ win, 110+ point season out of a team that started the year without Burrows and only played one game with its best defense corps intact.
As for being outcoached, I can honestly say that coaching was a problem for the Canucks in the Final, but it was far from the only problem. Penalty killing, Aaron Rome, Roberto Luongo, the Sedins, injuries, backchecking and the power play also failed to live up to expectations.
While AV does deserve some of the blame, and I understand your frustration at not winning the Cup, I think he's done a good job at making players better. He stopped Burrows and Kesler and Laperre, to an extent, from chirping.
I have faith that AV can coach this team to a Cup victory.

#57 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:54 AM

Curse of the Jack Adams trophey? (goes back to 06-07 I know) Same idea, a coach has great success with his team, they don't play/finish as well the next year.

I'm honestly hoping the team will come back hungrier this year, maybe they won't finish as well in the regular season, but they can get it done in the playoffs. The dreamer in me is hoping Kesler is still angry now losing the gold medal and game seven in two consecutive years, the twins are ready for the pressure after training in the offseason and Luongo can get his head on straight, last season Rollie Melanson really helped Luo's game.



#58 hockeystar

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:14 AM

Every year no matter how good we do or how far we make it in the playoffs, everyone screams for AV's head. Give it a rest people! Whether you like it or not, face the facts... Vigneault is one of the best/ if not THE best coach we've ever had. He is not going to get fired any time soon unless we go the first half of the season without any wins at all.


sorry to say, but its not the coach, and not lu. This team gave them success. The coach makes very little adjustments when needed. He was horrible and out coached against the bruins. lu complains when he looses as the team wasn't playing well. The team carries how far they will be.
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#59 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:19 AM

Haters gonna hate.

AV is a good coach. You just don't understand hockey enough to see the glaringly obvious, but painful truth in playing Rome ahead of Ballard, and sitting a highly touted junior prospect Hodgson for 4th line players.

Obviously haters never recognize the fact that he developed some key players on our team from scratch. On top of that, he's led us to the best season in Canucks history.

And the Linden thing? He was a 38 year old veteran at the time, and he wasn't the Trevor Linden of his prime - the guy retired that year for god's sake. Tons of great players were healthy scratches at times the year they retired.

Mike Modano last season, for one. I wonder how many here think Mike Babcock should be fired?

1) The PO said both those things... Derpty derp derp.

2) He was still quite beastly, it was a total mistake. Having Linden as part of this organization now, as a player or not, would have helped tons in the finals this year.

Right.

Having a former player sitting in the box with Gillis, Gilman, Smyl and Henning was the "piece" the Canucks needed to win it all. :rolleyes:

The fact was, Linden was "beastly" precisely because he was used in a limited manner by AV, something he realizes himself. Hence the video posted by EOTM. And before you say, "He's just saying the right things", he could easily have mentioned Quinn or Crow and left it at that. No-one would have seen it as a "slight" on AV. (except those who don't understand the player-coach dynamic and read everything as "tension").

BTW: Good posts Yeria and EOTM. You guys saved me a lot of typing.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 27 July 2011 - 08:20 AM.

Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#60 Aestheticon67

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:25 AM


While he has broken countless coaching records in his tenure with the club since his debut in 2006/07


hmmm
Ballard did not deserve to play as was evidence of our winning record with Rome in the lineup, ANY player no matter how important to the franchise must EARN the trust of the coach, not the other way around.
if anything a bad start will be MORE tolerable than in the past considering we know we have the pieces to get it done

All that Trevor Linden stuff is speculation, show me some evidence
Daniel Sedin when not playing for his national team, passes it up to Pavol Demitra gathering speed through the neutral zone to battle in deep, a quick centering feed to Henrik Sedin as he dazzles the D and slides it under Patrick Lalime. Dany Sabourin stones Sami Kapanen who tried the wraparound but was denied by the paddle down. Sidney Crosby was taught how to win at hockey by Ziggy Palffy.




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