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Why Alain Vigneault doesn’t stand a chance in 2011/12


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#151 nuck luck

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:42 AM

I've got doubts about AV after last year... I think he's a good coach, but he has a few negatives that played a factor in us losing the cup.

- He is too rigid in his ways and refuses to adapt to different situations... other coaches change what doesn't work and it's a lot easier for them if you know exactly what to expect from the opposing coach (AV + playoffs = no change).

- AV plays favorites too much and once he puts a thought in his head about a player, that's it for the player. If he likes you, you keep playing and if he doesn't than you don't get a chance (not talking about Ballard here) He ignores other options and keeps beating that horse 'till it's dead... I'll use Samuelsson as an example, we all know he was hurt during the playoffs and AV should have rested him for a game or two (or more) during the Nashville series because it wasn't that close.... we didn't need Samuelsson's experience against Nashville, but we DEFINITELY needed it against Boston. Other players could have come in to replace Samuelsson, he was close to awful playing injured anyways.

- He doesn't know how to motivate his players...if this was any other sport (NFL for example), a lot of emphasis is put on the coach to be able to motivate his players and AV continuously fails to do that. Don't leave it up to the players, walk in the room like Knute Rockne and give a speech like "win one for the Gipper", MOTIVATE the guys... the Bruins did it with the "concussion", we could have done it with Raymond... they tried something, granted, but it looked half-ass to me.

- In the playoffs, all teams in every sport understands that they shouldn't say or do something during interviews to motivate the opposition. We all know Lou has a 'slight' problem with interviews and AV should have isolated him from the press so that he wouldn't have a verbal fart again (not knocking his play, just the things he says).

- Let the players play and the coach...well, COACH. I still have no idea why he would listen to Lou and let him stick out the rest of the game after he let in the 4th, 5th, 6th...etc goals? How does losing by these HUGE numbers not bring negativity into the minds of the players or the goalie himself? In no way at all does this do anything to motivate them for the rest of the series. Plus, Scheids was in his home town for the playoffs with all his friends and family watching, like every keepers dream, let him play. I think that everyone here can agree that he deserves it.

AV is NOT the sole reason we lost the cup, but I think we might have had a different ending had there been another coach in his place. However, if MG was to fire AV this year... I can't think of anyone to replace him? I'm not a big fan of Mctavish either so who else could replace AV? I think if any changes take place, it will be after the playoffs... we win - AV stays. We lose - AV's gone. Isn't his contract up this year?

Edited by nuck luck, 13 October 2011 - 09:16 AM.


#152 Slegr

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:44 PM

Just less than four weeks to go
"I knew we had a great team. I told everyone if we play as a group, we can win it all. Everyone laughed. Now we're laughing."
-Jiri Slegr

#153 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:50 PM

Coming off his most successful season as a head coach, Alain Vigneault probably isn't expecting to be fired any time soon. But as reality sets in this fall, watch for the Canucks coach to get terminated as early as November.

Why are the odds stacked against a man who brought the Canucks to within one game of the ultimate prize, not to mention the club's first ever President's Trophy? He will soon become a victim of his own success:

• The Canucks traditionally have slow starts to the season. After last spring's post season, there will be high expectations and low amounts of patience should the Canucks come out of the gates in their normal 0.500 fashion

• Teams will be paying special attention to the Canucks, given the team's regular and post-season track records last year

By about the 20-game mark, in this hockey-crazed market, if the Canucks aren't within the top eight seeds in their conference, Alain Vigneault will become extremely expendable by fans, media, and management.

While he has broken countless coaching records in his tenure with the club since his debut in 2006/07, Alain has also had his moments of controversy, that, when compiled over six years, gives more incentive to bring fresh perspectives behind the bench.

Reasons Alain's departure will appeal to fans, media and management:

Rocky relationships: While Alain's personality has blended in a complimentary fashion with several Canucks, he has also created tension among a select few who would benefit under a new head coach. In particular, Keith Ballard, who has the potential to be a cornerstone of the Canucks' defence, has yet to have the confidence instilled in him by his head coach. Cody Hodgson is another potential franchise player who has been used so sparingly when called up that he no doubt questions the coach's confidence in his abilities.

New approaches: We've seen several Canucks blossom into stars during Vigneault's term, in large part to how he has afforded them opportunities to grow. But some may say he has also stifled key players in the particular roles he lays out for them. For instance, if the referees call a one-sided game against the Canucks, the Sedins ride the pine for too long. A new coach would mean a new approach using existing players.

Addressing overprized favourites: Aaron Rome. Do I really need to say more on that?

The Linden factor: While he would never admit it, Trevor Linden is not interested in having a role with the Canucks organization while Alain Vigneault is associated with the club. Trevor will speak highly of Alain when asked about his coaching abilities, but resentment persists in Trevor towards a coach who refused to play him for any length of time, despite his proven worth and continued ability to play a strong role on the team. Below the surface of his class and dignity, his dissatisfaction with the coach ultimately led him to retire two seasons before he wanted to – and he only announced his retirement once he was sure Alain wasn't being fired, in June, 2008, well after the Canucks finished their season, a season that saw Trevor as a healthy scratch for 24 games. If Alain is terminated, it opens up new windows of opportunity in having Trevor Linden a member of the organization, in some capacity.

My prediction: look for Alain Vigneault's departure by the last week of November. Not that I didn't think he did a great job in many aspects, but I have a feeling his end with the Canucks is much closer than most think.

Thoughts?


You also forgot about our other player who's number is also retired Markus Naslunds, who told Gillis his previous agent to fire AV or he would no longer play for the Canucks, and what happened Gillis kept AV and Naslund never played a game again for the Canucks.

Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


#154 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:54 PM

Unless we have a serious chance of missing the playoffs, I doubt he would get fired before the regular season ends. I do think that if he fails to get it done in the playoffs again, barring major injuries to most of the team, there is a good chance he will get fired.


Pittsburgh was 27-25-5 when they fired Therrien and gave the reigns to Bylsma... and then proceeded to win the cup... This happened the year after they made it to the finals and lost...

Edited by Jester@wraiths.ca, 04 November 2011 - 09:59 PM.


#155 danny411

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:54 PM

av will get fired soon.if they keep playing like bums.

got to get there to have a chance to win.

#156 totem_02

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:15 PM

time to let go of our joke of a head coach and assistant. embarrassed every year in the playoffs by the same team (Chicago) by the same coach. you'd think after losing to a team 2 years in a row you'd have them figured out. nope. meltdown after meltdown after meltdown in the regular season, in the playoffs.

learning from mistakes is not one of AV's strengths.

#157 SergioMomesso

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:18 PM

AV has got to go. MacT may be getting his shot in the big leagues again in the not too distant future
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#158 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:50 PM

AV isn't going anywhere. Look at the problems of this team so far:

Defensive positioning.
Poor execution in the offensive zone.
Not generating chances.

This team is playing the same WAY as last season, just not up to standards. Each individual player isn't playing well, that falls on the individual, not the coach's systems. The Canucks have arguably the best system in the league thanks to AV and co. Just look at our PK and PP - somehow both top-10 despite a very terrible team overall.

AV is not the problem, the players are and they need to kick it into gear.
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#159 skyfall

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:58 PM

I told myself to not care about the Canucks until there's a coaching change or if they get to the finals again. I hate watching a team that uses the boards a hundred times per game and focuses more on faceoffs and quick line changes than breakaway skills and over complicating systems to the point where players are getting down on themselves.

The Canucks have been heavily scouted and what will break them out of it is a simpler system based on basic positioning and improvisation. For that to work every player should improve on all skills or else they'll be limited to ringing the puck off the boards and getting shots blocked while getting the odd goal off of a turnover or a deflection.

AV may be good technically at times but the fact that there's lacking of common sense at times (not practicing the shootout which would mean practicin breakaways, blaming the hawks for sending top guys on a 5 on 3 in a blowout instead of looking at his team and askin what's up and asking Lu of he wants to stay in net after getting shelled, etc) makes me think some criticism is legit.

Following a favorite team isn't just about wins and losses, it's about the swagger and the manner in which it's done. If the team is stomping the competition then fine But if they're losing by being blown out in big games, confidence is not there and games are emotionless and boring to watch then well I can understand the beefs ppl have even if they focus on irrelevant details or don't articulate their frustration in the most intelligent and logical way.

#160 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:10 PM

If lose our next 2 games. Then there is a chance.

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#161 Otherside

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:18 PM

Coming off his most successful season as a head coach, Alain Vigneault probably isn't expecting to be fired any time soon. But as reality sets in this fall, watch for the Canucks coach to get terminated as early as November.

Why are the odds stacked against a man who brought the Canucks to within one game of the ultimate prize, not to mention the club's first ever President's Trophy? He will soon become a victim of his own success:

• The Canucks traditionally have slow starts to the season. After last spring's post season, there will be high expectations and low amounts of patience should the Canucks come out of the gates in their normal 0.500 fashion

• Teams will be paying special attention to the Canucks, given the team's regular and post-season track records last year

By about the 20-game mark, in this hockey-crazed market, if the Canucks aren't within the top eight seeds in their conference, Alain Vigneault will become extremely expendable by fans, media, and management.

While he has broken countless coaching records in his tenure with the club since his debut in 2006/07, Alain has also had his moments of controversy, that, when compiled over six years, gives more incentive to bring fresh perspectives behind the bench.

Reasons Alain's departure will appeal to fans, media and management:

Rocky relationships: While Alain's personality has blended in a complimentary fashion with several Canucks, he has also created tension among a select few who would benefit under a new head coach. In particular, Keith Ballard, who has the potential to be a cornerstone of the Canucks' defence, has yet to have the confidence instilled in him by his head coach. Cody Hodgson is another potential franchise player who has been used so sparingly when called up that he no doubt questions the coach's confidence in his abilities.

New approaches: We've seen several Canucks blossom into stars during Vigneault's term, in large part to how he has afforded them opportunities to grow. But some may say he has also stifled key players in the particular roles he lays out for them. For instance, if the referees call a one-sided game against the Canucks, the Sedins ride the pine for too long. A new coach would mean a new approach using existing players.

Addressing overprized favourites: Aaron Rome. Do I really need to say more on that?

The Linden factor: While he would never admit it, Trevor Linden is not interested in having a role with the Canucks organization while Alain Vigneault is associated with the club. Trevor will speak highly of Alain when asked about his coaching abilities, but resentment persists in Trevor towards a coach who refused to play him for any length of time, despite his proven worth and continued ability to play a strong role on the team. Below the surface of his class and dignity, his dissatisfaction with the coach ultimately led him to retire two seasons before he wanted to – and he only announced his retirement once he was sure Alain wasn't being fired, in June, 2008, well after the Canucks finished their season, a season that saw Trevor as a healthy scratch for 24 games. If Alain is terminated, it opens up new windows of opportunity in having Trevor Linden a member of the organization, in some capacity.

My prediction: look for Alain Vigneault's departure by the last week of November. Not that I didn't think he did a great job in many aspects, but I have a feeling his end with the Canucks is much closer than most think.

Thoughts?


looking spot on right now.

#162 nd84

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:25 PM

I think Gillis really believes that AV can still get the job done, and because of that I don't think he's gonna get fired.

Only in a case that we lose consecutive games because of terrible play will he be on a short leash and possibly be fired

If we lose some tight games that we could of won or some bad break games he'll still be with the team.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a case AV gets fired though, who our options would be, because I don't think they would automatically go with MacT (looks like teams typically bring up their farm coach after a firing), because he needs to re-establish himself with coaching because of his absence.
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#163 LeanBeef

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:13 AM

Some things that I don't like about AV is how he manages to make the canucks look so predictable. He doesn't want change, just look at the boston and chicago series. Once they figured out our pattern, they could easily break it.
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#164 xereau

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:50 AM

I wonder if Larry Robinson is interested in coaching still.


"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man:
brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however,the

timid join him; for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

Mark Twain


#165 Primal Optimist

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:15 AM

I can only hope this prediction comes true. Imagine, all those that don't want AV fired, imagine IF he is the problem? What could our star players do IF the coach that keeps them down was replaced? Imagine MORE offense from the twins, imagine if the players weren't 'afraid to lose...imagine if LU played 55 games this year and Ginger Lu played 27, and imagine if they were the RIGHT mix of games!!! Imagine if Hansen didn't get 1st line looks tonight, and imagine if players the coach didn't exactly like scored and the coach didn't frown on national tv.

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Happy Hockey Fan!!!


#166 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:50 AM

I can only hope this prediction comes true. Imagine, all those that don't want AV fired, imagine IF he is the problem? What could our star players do IF the coach that keeps them down was replaced? Imagine MORE offense from the twins, imagine if the players weren't 'afraid to lose...imagine if LU played 55 games this year and Ginger Lu played 27, and imagine if they were the RIGHT mix of games!!! Imagine if Hansen didn't get 1st line looks tonight, and imagine if players the coach didn't exactly like scored and the coach didn't frown on national tv.

I can only hope this prediction doesn't come true. Imagine, all those that want AV fired, imagine IF his is the mastermind behind this teams success. What would our star players do if the coach that pumps them up was replaced. Imagine LESS offense from the twins, imagine if the players had no structure or accountability...imagine if LU and Ginger LU...had almost the same exact start ratios as last year!!!(You lost me on that one) Imagine if players weren't given opportunities in different spots and Burrows was never tried with the Sedins, and imagine if....(ok WTF was that last line?)

Either way...you're better than this bull$&*^. What if's and imagine arguments...c'mon sir.
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#167 warrchief

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:05 AM

Fire AV, he chews the same piece of gum.
Bobby Lou is my homie

#168 EDLER.IS.BEAST

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:13 AM

I can only hope this prediction comes true. Imagine, all those that don't want AV fired, imagine IF he is the problem? What could our star players do IF the coach that keeps them down was replaced? Imagine MORE offense from the twins, imagine if the players weren't 'afraid to lose...imagine if LU played 55 games this year and Ginger Lu played 27, and imagine if they were the RIGHT mix of games!!! Imagine if Hansen didn't get 1st line looks tonight, and imagine if players the coach didn't exactly like scored and the coach didn't frown on national tv.


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Edited by EDLER.IS.BEAST, 06 November 2011 - 02:22 AM.


#169 skyfall

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 10:55 AM

I can only hope this prediction doesn't come true. Imagine, all those that want AV fired, imagine IF his is the mastermind behind this teams success. What would our star players do if the coach that pumps them up was replaced. Imagine LESS offense from the twins, imagine if the players had no structure or accountability...imagine if LU and Ginger LU...had almost the same exact start ratios as last year!!!(You lost me on that one) Imagine if players weren't given opportunities in different spots and Burrows was never tried with the Sedins, and imagine if....(ok WTF was that last line?)

Either way...you're better than this bull$&*^. What if's and imagine arguments...c'mon sir.


Obviously the Canucks would look for an upgrade in coaching. That's exactly the fear of losing optimist is talking about. The fear of change and addressing weaknesses head on. I'm sure a new coach would do the good things you said combine with what optimist said and more. It's not one or the other.

#170 Zing!

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 11:36 AM

So hey, Scott Arniel might be available soon. CDC has wanted him as coach for years now right?

Edited by Zing!, 05 November 2011 - 11:37 AM.


#171 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 11:45 AM

MIke Gillis is not the type of player that will make any changes to his staff during regular season. If A.V is to go, it will be at the end of our season. Anything less then a 1st round victory my guess A.V will be gone. But a lot of things we thought will happen never did. WE thought he will trade Schneider this summer, he didn't. some thought he would dump Ballard's contract in order to make room for Ehrhoff's contract, that never happened. But my guess, A.V will be here for at least this season.

Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#172 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:25 PM

Why do people feel that AV should be immune when there are a lot of cup winning coaches who didn't last this long coaching one team?

#173 Zing!

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:58 PM

Why do people feel that AV should be immune when there are a lot of cup winning coaches who didn't last this long coaching one team?


Coaches are usually fired when the team has a sustained period of failure. AV has built up some credit these few years as a winning coach.

#174 unknown33429

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:08 PM

sorry to say, but its not the coach, and not lu. This team gave them success. The coach makes very little adjustments when needed. He was horrible and out coached against the bruins. lu complains when he looses as the team wasn't playing well. The team carries how far they will be.


+1

Are you CRAZY??? Trade Green for ONE first round pick?? He's restricted after this season.... He WILL get an offer sheet for 7-8 million from a number of teams regardless if he plays another minute for us or not. That offer sheet would be worth 4 first round draft choices.


Some fans overrate their players, and then there is this guy.

#175 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:19 PM

Obviously the Canucks would look for an upgrade in coaching. That's exactly the fear of losing optimist is talking about. The fear of change and addressing weaknesses head on. I'm sure a new coach would do the good things you said combine with what optimist said and more. It's not one or the other.

I'm not talking about a fear of change. I don't care who changes as long as it's for the better. Sedins, Kesler, Luongo, AV...they all take a back seat to the canucks.

The problem here really is a fear of failure. The team can't fail so we fans blame individuals. I'm sure of nothing a new coach would do because I don't know who that would be. Fear of change is no better or worse than change for the sake of change.

The problem with everything Optimist said and everything I said is that it's all based on bull$^&% if's and imagine arguments. Apparently that point was missed though.
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#176 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

Man I enjoy bumping old threads!

Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"





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