Does Luongo really meltdown in the playoffs?

[apollo]

You are 100% right, there are issues with goaltending and scoring, none is to blame more then the other. We can't win if the goaltending is inconsistent or if we can't put the puck in the net.

What to do? How about trading the inconsistent playoff goalie (who can play great at times) for scoring help. Problem solved........

[NuxFan09]

How much more success do u expect?? The NHL playoffs are extremely difficult to succeed in. There is a reason why the president trophy winners don't win the cup every year.

One bad bounce... one bad call... one bad injury... one bad injury that the media may not b made aware off... some random 22 year old playing lights out... all these can make or break a series.

We proved what a dominant team we are the past three years. The stars just didn't align to win a cup for us. We shouldn't jump ship on the MAIN player that made all tis success possible.

[vanhalendlrband]

I have been absent too long.

Luongo is not at fault FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

We had defensive breakdowns almost every game including the game we didn't score any goals in game 7. He wasn't at fault against Los Angeles at all. Its absolutely hilarious how little reporters know and the fans are all over him.

If Luongo ever reads this, remember it was the same way with Kirk McLean. One of the best goalies all time with a horrible defense around him and he gets blamed for everything. Corey Hirsch almost stole the job cuz he got on a little hot streak, very similar to how well Schneider has played.

I don't think Schneider has proven himself enough, he's never started for an entire season and I just don't see him doing as well as Luongo but if he becomes our #1 guy i'll sure as hell hope he will prove me wrong. Goalies can be outstanding into their late 30's like Roloson and Hasek. Maybe Luongo can't do the pressure anymore but i just am still unsure about how good Schneider really is. I mean if he was that much better than Luongo he would've done better than 1-2 vs Luongos 0-2. Whose to say Luongo doesn't win a third game if given the oppurtunity. Luongo is the type of superstar that in game 3 would've upped his game to almost unreal ability. I truly believe that and I was shocked with all the injuries they were dealin with that they'd give up on Luongo so quick. I could care less if Schneider gets a 960 over 3 games, its only 3 games and he lost 2 of them.

Luongos the best thing to come along since Kirk Mclean but everyones ready to turn their back on him like nothing and its a joke. Its all these people i know in my social circles that know nothing about hockey read Province artile 1,035 on Vancouver goaltending. Its the same story probably even from the SAME guy that goes back WAY before Luongo showed up. Every game the team loses a picture of the goalie on the back.

Luongo could win us a cup. If our team is there. Lets face it had Boston lost Lucic and Chara in that series to injury it would've been ours. We lost Dan Hamhuis and others throughout the series that had a big impact on how good we were. You can't lose certain players, we lost the ones you couldn't lose, boston lost the ones they could easily easily afford to lose. Had we a 100% daniel sedin we would've dominated. It would be like if any of LA's top line wasn't there in the playoffs, an entirely different story and no LA kings cup win. SOme guys you can survive without, others you can't. Luongo should start for us this year.

[Nino]

How is it problem solved if the guy replacing the goalie hasn't proved anything. I'm not saying Schneider isn't good.. it's a fact that he IS NOT a proven elite goaltender.We would be taking a big risk.

[apollo]

Oh, come on. Yes, only one team can win the Cup every year and all that, but everyone and their grandma can tell you that the Canucks absolutely blew it in the 2011 finals. It was an underachievement that bordered on embarrassment with the way they played, top to bottom.

This is coming from someone who tries to see the best in this team too. This is also coming from someone who just posted earlier in this thread that Luongo hasn't melted down nearly as much as people suggest. I definitely don't put sole blame on him for the team's playoff failures but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Luongo has let the team down in some crucial moments.

The playoffs are filled with goalie heroics. Do you think that all the teams that have won the Cup in recent years have relied on their goalie to simply make the saves they're supposed to make? No, they've all relied on their goalies to save the day at one point or another.

Cup winning goalies and their playoff stats since the 05/06 season:

Cam Ward - 2.14 GAA, .920 Save%

J.S. Giguere - 1.97 GAA, .922 Save%

Chris Osgood - 1.55 GAA, .930 Save%

Marc-Andre Fleury - 2.61 GAA, .908 Save%

Antti Niemi - 2.63 GAA, .910 Save%

Tim Thomas - 1.98 GAA, .940 Save%

Jonathan Quick - 1.41 GAA, .946 Save%

The exceptions there are the Penguins with Fleury and the Blackhawks with Niemi, but those teams both had their offense going at full throttle. If they Penguins and Blackhawks didn't have two Conn Smythe winners between them (Malkin and Toews) and great supporting casts playing really well then I can guarantee the performances of both Fleury and Niemi would not have been good enough.

So the moral of the story is, the Canucks needed not just stolid goaltending but great goaltending from Luongo. That or they needed their top offensive players to step up. Take your pick.

[D-Money]

So, as I pointed out above, in the last four years, Luongo has only stopped 90% or more of his shots for a series four times - less than half! He was under 90% save percentage in 5/9 series.

How have other top goaltenders fared in the same timeframe?

Tim Thomas

2012 - Washington - 0.923 save%

2011 - Vancouver - 0.967

2011 - Tampa Bay - 0.916

2011 - Philadelphia - 0.953

2011 - Montreal - 0.926

2009 - Carolina - 0.929

2009 - Montreal - 0.946

Thomas played seven series, and never once came even close to letting in 10% of his shots in any one of them.

Jonathon Quick

2012 - New Jersey - 0.947

2012 - Phoenix - 0.939

2012 - St. Louis - 0.941

2012 - Vancouver - 0.953

2011 - San Jose - 0.913

2010 - Vancouver - 0.884

In six series, Quick only let in over 10% once - but that was as a fresh-faced 24 year-old getting his first taste of playoff action. He's been significantly better since.

Martin Brodeur

2012 - Los Angeles - 0.900

2012 - NY Rangers - 0.927

2012 - Philadelphia - 0.918

2012 - Florida - 0.922

2010 - Philadelphia - 0.881

2009 - Carolina - 0.929

Marty Brodeur isn't as good as he once was, but even he has only turned in a single sub-90% series in his last six. And the time he did, there were some real questions about his ability, and whether he had played too many games that year.

This is the kind of consistency a top, franchise goaltender should give your team. When it comes down to it, Luongo simply doesn't compare. He'll steal you a couple of games, and even a series. But then, suddenly, a team will get to him, and he's suddenly a below-average goaltender for multiple games.

Heck, even Antti Niemi has been over 90% in save percentage in at least half of his playoff series in the last few years (4/8).

So, if Luongo can't be counted on to be a true franchise goaltender when it matters most, what is all the fuss about? Trade him, fill some holes, and let's hope playoff-Schneider pans out to be more of a Thomas/Quick/Brodeur than a Niemi/Luongo.

[vanhalendlrband]

Oh, come on. Yes, only one team can win the Cup every year and all that, but everyone and their grandma can tell you that the Canucks absolutely blew it in the 2011 finals. It was an underachievement that bordered on embarrassment with the way they played, top to bottom.

This is coming from someone who tries to see the best in this team too. This is also coming from someone who just posted earlier in this thread that Luongo hasn't melted down nearly as much as people suggest. I definitely don't put sole blame on him for the team's playoff failures but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Luongo has let the team down in some crucial moments.

The playoffs are filled with goalie heroics. Do you think that all the teams that have won the Cup in recent years have relied on their goalie to simply make the saves they're supposed to make? No, they've all relied on their goalies to save the day at one point or another.

Cup winning goalies and their playoff stats since the 05/06 season:

Cam Ward - 2.14 GAA, .920 Save%

J.S. Giguere - 1.97 GAA, .922 Save%

Chris Osgood - 1.55 GAA, .930 Save%

Marc-Andre Fleury - 2.61 GAA, .908 Save%

Antti Niemi - 2.63 GAA, .910 Save%

Tim Thomas - 1.98 GAA, .940 Save%

Jonathan Quick - 1.41 GAA, .946 Save%

The exceptions there are the Penguins with Fleury and the Blackhawks with Niemi, but those teams both had their offense going at full throttle. If they Penguins and Blackhawks didn't have two Conn Smythe winners between them (Malkin and Toews) and great supporting casts playing really well then I can guarantee the performances of both Fleury and Niemi would not have been good enough.

So the moral of the story is, the Canucks needed not just stolid goaltending but great goaltending from Luongo. That or they needed their top offensive players to step up. Take your pick.

[hudson bay rules]

I don't blame Luongo for us loosing the cup but I do blame him for not keeping us in every game.

[vanhalendlrband]

The only reason why you see goalies have

I don't blame Luongo for us loosing the cup but I do blame him for not keeping us in every game.

[vanhalendlrband]

So, as I pointed out above, in the last four years, Luongo has only stopped 90% or more of his shots for a series four times - less than half! He was under 90% save percentage in 5/9 series.

How have other top goaltenders fared in the same timeframe?

Tim Thomas

2012 - Washington - 0.923 save%

2011 - Vancouver - 0.967

2011 - Tampa Bay - 0.916

2011 - Philadelphia - 0.953

2011 - Montreal - 0.926

2009 - Carolina - 0.929

2009 - Montreal - 0.946

Thomas played seven series, and never once came even close to letting in 10% of his shots in any one of them.

Jonathon Quick

2012 - New Jersey - 0.947

2012 - Phoenix - 0.939

2012 - St. Louis - 0.941

2012 - Vancouver - 0.953

2011 - San Jose - 0.913

2010 - Vancouver - 0.884

In six series, Quick only let in over 10% once - but that was as a fresh-faced 24 year-old getting his first taste of playoff action. He's been significantly better since.

Martin Brodeur

2012 - Los Angeles - 0.900

2012 - NY Rangers - 0.927

2012 - Philadelphia - 0.918

2012 - Florida - 0.922

2010 - Philadelphia - 0.881

2009 - Carolina - 0.929

Marty Brodeur isn't as good as he once was, but even he has only turned in a single sub-90% series in his last six. And the time he did, there were some real questions about his ability, and whether he had played too many games that year.

This is the kind of consistency a top, franchise goaltender should give your team. When it comes down to it, Luongo simply doesn't compare. He'll steal you a couple of games, and even a series. But then, suddenly, a team will get to him, and he's suddenly a below-average goaltender for multiple games.

Heck, even Antti Niemi has been over 90% in save percentage in at least half of his playoff series in the last few years (4/8).

So, if Luongo can't be counted on to be a true franchise goaltender when it matters most, what is all the fuss about? Trade him, fill some holes, and let's hope playoff-Schneider pans out to be more of a Thomas/Quick/Brodeur than a Niemi/Luongo.

[Westcoasting]

These are all just numbers. My post up a bit more states how you don't know how well the defense is playing in front of the goalie in those games. Most of those games with a guy like chara you can keep all those shots to the outside and be relatively easy to save most of the time with the odd big save. Any goalie can do that. Put Tim Thomas on the Vancouver Canucks last year or the year before and he gets worse numbers than Luongo guaranteed.

[NuxFan09]

I think most people in this discussion are actually making great points, which brings me to the point I made before:

Collectively, the team needs to be better. The goaltending could be more reliable, the defense could tighten up a bit more, and the scoring could be sharper.

As far as the goaltending is concerned, I can't help but point out that last year against the Kings, the Canucks were having the same kind of defensive breakdowns as they normally do but Schneider still managed to go beast mode, while Luongo was again sub-par. Not bad, just sub-par.

[RAMBUTANS]

He doesn't melt down, he only allows 8 goals a game in the SCF.

[Riviera82]

I'd rather not lose. If the Canucks can't score they lose. Very simple. The question would hold weight if the scores were 6-5 or even 8-7. But the Canucks can't score during the playoffs because they miss the intangibles required to win playoff games, which do not factor in on a Moneyball blueprint.

The 1994 Canucks win the Cup over the current Canucks any day because they had passion, toughness, poise, heart and determination. This team doesn't. It has great scoring during the season but come playoff time when things get tough, your top players disappear when you need them most. This team is not built for a Cup and in a shortened season, the competition will be even fiercer, which does not bode well for Vancouver. Top 8 most likely but bottom of that top.

Blame Luongo.

[riffraff]

Yes

[Tortorella's Rant]

You are 100% right, there are issues with goaltending and scoring, none is to blame more then the other. We can't win if the goaltending is inconsistent or if we can't put the puck in the net.

What to do? How about trading the inconsistent playoff goalie (who can play great at times) for scoring help. Problem solved........

[Riviera82]

Roberto is the only reason we didn't get swept in the finals.

Those are some very interesting stats and I hadn't thought about it before... when the canucks lose they lose big in the playoffs. End of the day it doesn't matter if u lose by one goal or by five. Like we saw in the hawks series: we got out scored and won the series. The deciding factor in the series was the goaltending.

Luongo came into his own in 2009-2010. He was very shaky in the playoffs prior to those years... the paSt two year luongo has been clutch. I wouldn't take any other goalie over him... he stands on his head when it matters.

[Primus099]

What exactly are you on right now? Your post makes absolutely zero sense.

It doesn't matter if you lose by 1 goal or 5? What if your'e down 4-0 after the 1st period? Doesn't it matter if the game is already over 20 minutes in?

Luongo came into his own in 09/10 and he was shaky in the playoffs prior to that? Luongo's first 3 series were probably his best ever (Dallas, Anaheim, St.Louis), he went downhill after that.

Luongo's been clutch the last 2 years?? That's very debatable.

He stands on his head when it matters?? Maybe I'm wrong but I think these games mattered a lot.

2009 - Game 6 vs. Chicago, 7-5 L, Canucks eliminated.

2010 - Game 6 vs. Chicago, 5-1 L, Canucks eliminated.

2011 - Game 4 vs. Chicago, 7-2 L, Canucks series lead cut to 3-1.

2011 - Game 5 vs. Chicago, 5-0 L, Canucks series lead cut to 3-2.

2011 - Game 6 vs. Chicago, 4-3 L, Canucks series lead is gone, Luongo gives up OT winner in a bellyflop to "sniper" Ben Smith.

2011 - Game 7 vs. Chicago, 2-1 W, Canucks win but Luongo gives up shorthanded goal at the end of the game to send it to OT.

2011 - Game 3 vs. Boston, 8-1 L, Canucks series lead cut to 2-1, AV refuses to pull Luongo and our momentum is gone.

2011 - Game 4 vs. Boston, 4-0 L, Canucks series lead is gone, 2-2 tie.

2011 - Game 6 vs. Boston, 5-2 L, Canucks lose 3-2 series lead, Luongo loses the game in the first 8 minutes.

2011 - Game 7 vs. Boston, 4-0 L, Canucks lose the Stanley Cup at home in a blowout, Luongo stops 17 of 20 shots. Tim Thomas stops 37 for the shutout and Cup. Congratulations.

This is the guy you'd want more than anyone else? You can have him.

[Riviera82]

Luongo in 2011: 2.56GAA .914 save %. no cup

Niemi in 2010: 2.63GAA .910. won cup

Fleury in 2009: 2.61GAA .908 save%. won cup

so those teams goalies had worse numbers than Luongo yet they won the cup, interesting.

[Riviera82]

fixed