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Does Luongo really meltdown in the playoffs?


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#91 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 11:55 AM

To me, game 6 was the killer. Yes, Louie had poor games in game 3 and 4, but an early save in game six would have made the difference. The Canucks had the run of play leading up to the Marchand goal and letting that one in plus the even weaker Lucic goal half a minute later ended this one early.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what happened to his play between Vancouver and Boston. He was brilliant in game five and starting him in game six, even considering his previous two starts in Beantown, was a no-brainer.

The easy explanation would be that he isn't a road goalie, but the fact is, he was 5-3 on the road leading up to the finals.

"Meltdown" may be too stong a term, but I do think there is an issue with mental fragility when it comes to Roberto Luongo.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#92 Tanti's snipe

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:29 PM

I little like the statistical breakdown! Those numbers don't lie and quite honestly I think that Vancouver fans suffer from tunnel vision when
it comes to their beloved Canucks. I know sometimes I do.

The only thing I do get irritated about with Loungo is that he seems to be a little bit fragile in the huge games. Sometimes he will play solidly and some times he looks like he's a nervous nelly in there. I know, I know everyone is nervous on that big of a stage but with him it just looks like he really struggles physically because of the mental aspect. He is a real asset to Vancouver though when it's all said and done.

Even though we all think Shneider could have outplayed him at times in the Playoffs, the truth of the matter is there will come a time when Shneider gets lit up in a critical playoff game. At that point he too may look unsure of his abilities from time to time just like Lou.

Overall I think Loungo is one of the more solid playoff goalies around and will be for some time yet.
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#93 Buttock

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:11 PM

Sure he melts down. So does Thomas. Going into that series there were real questions as to which Thomas would show up on any given night. Nobody and I mean NOBODY expected him to turn in seven amazing goaltending performances in that series, but he did it and that silenced the critics. Luongo has yet to silence his critics but that one series doesn't change what kind of goaltender he is or is capable of being.

I don't understand putting all the blame on him, though. And not everyone here is doing that. I agree that if Luongo falters and AV doesn't put the backup in, that's a failure on AV's part. But we know this coach is always so slow to learn. He'll figure it out next time, hopefully. I'd replace Vigneault before Luongo. I think Luongo is a better goaltender than Schneider, but we've got two good goaltenders so we should use them both. I also think that if the team really does melt down and lose all confidence after Luongo lets in a couple of softies, that's the team's problem, not just Luongo's.

Also throughout that whole series it was pretty clear that the Bruins were adapting faster and figuring out the Canucks system and how to shut us down. The Canucks failed to adapt and a big part of that is on Coach V as well. Even when Luongo turned in great goaltending performances we had to wait for late goals from the likes of Torres and Lapierre to win at home.

One final point, there is no more irrelevant statistic than how many goals a goaltender or team lets in after the game is already out of reach. Who cares at that point. It's not worse to lose by six goals than to lose by two.

Edited by Buttock, 25 September 2011 - 03:15 PM.

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#94 Kevin Biestra

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:14 PM

The only reason Vancouver hasn't UNANIMOUSLY declared Luongo a meltdown goalie is that Dan Cloutier is still in all of our recent memory.

Luongo is a great goalie and CAPABLE of backstopping his team to great things, but he is also CLEARLY among the more meltdown-prone starting goalies in the NHL.

There is NO QUESTION about this.

However, this team, not long ago, had THE BIGGEST MELTDOWN KING in NHL history. So even fairly severe sports psych issues seem insignificant by comparison.

Kirk McLean = 9.5 / 10 in terms of avoiding meltdowns in key situations
Dan Cloutier = 0.5 / 10 in terms of avoiding meltdowns in key situations
Roberto Luongo = 3.0 / 10 in terms of avoiding meltdowns in key situations
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#95 BenSurgeon

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 01:44 AM

With Luongo you don't know what you are going to get. When he is on he is great but when he is off he is bad. AV should have a shorter leash on RL this year. I mean if he looks shaky early don't hesitate to pull him as AV has a competent back up in Schneider. I just wished AV would take off the rose colored glasses. Look what Boston said to their Conn Smythe winning goaltender, that he will have to earn the starting spot this year.
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#96 sameer666

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 01:58 AM

I don't know why Luongo is considered a problem in a series our team scores 7 goals in 7 games in. The guy got two shutouts in the Stanley cup finals. If anything Luongo is the only reason we got to game 7.

I mean think about it, your team scores 7 goals in Six games in the Stanley cup playoffs and you get to even play a game 7? People shouldn't complain about Lu losing game 7, cause it was his game to lose. He got us there in the first place.
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#97 team kore

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:28 AM

I'll admit that whilst hockey is a team game, the entire team is accountable for the loss this past season, and for some reason Lou never gets pulled after 3 or 4 goals which eventually turns into an embarrassment for him. So here the little issue I can't get pass, when was the last time a cup winning goalie let in 12 friggin' goals in 2 consecutive playoff games?!?! that's what just throws me off my rocker! it is completely inexcusable, be it Lou's fault or AV's, honestly it starts with Lou and ends with AV!!!! how can you win like that?! It's all about learning from your mistakes, but the NHL doesn't have time for slow learners! it's do or die and we keep making mistakes!
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#98 team kore

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:52 AM

I mean think about it, your team scores 7 goals in Six games in the Stanley cup playoffs and you get to even play a game 7? People shouldn't complain about Lu losing game 7, cause it was his game to lose. He got us there in the first place.



No, it was the entire team that got us there, not him alone and while it wasn't him singlehandedly who lost game 7 either, shoddy defense and poor production up front did that. but please! what can you tell me about the 12 goals against in games 3 and 4 and the 9 he coughed up in 6 and 7? his GAA was worst than Roloson's for crying out loud! I don't care how you slice it there's only one to point the finger at and that's your boy bobby Lou, and I know Lou's weak in the head and blah blah blah but it's not entirely his fault, right AV?
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#99 canso

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 03:17 AM

Good article.

I always like to remind people how well Luongo would have had to have played in order for us to have beat Boston.

Game 1 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 2 - Canucks have a good game and score 3 - Luongo can't let it more than 2

Game 3 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 4 - Canucks are shutout - Luongo must be perfect for 60 minutes +

Game 5 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 6 - Canucks score 2 goals - Luongo can't let in more than 1

Game 7 - Canucks are shutout - Luongo must be perfect for 60 minutes +

Obviously games 4 and 7 would be the hardest for Luongo to win, but luckily we only need four wins to get the cup, so lets see what numbers he would need to have led us to a cup:

In order to win games 1, 2, (either 3 or 5) and 6, Luongo could only let in 3 goals over these 4 games. So he needed to have a GAA of 0.75 in order to bring us the cup. Oddly enough, Tim Thomas did just that, 0.75 GAA in the 4 games Boston won.

So the only possible way for us to have won the cup would be for us to get Vezina quality goaltending that was far and away the best goaltending in the playoffs. Hardly sounds like our forwards and defense (awesome as they were) gave Luongo much of a chance. Anyone who wasn't Thomas would have similarly 'lost us' the series. Despite this, we still won three games, probably in large part due to Luongo's world class ability. A lesser goalie might have let us get swept.


it was good article to read, and your comment is nicely put. all good stuff to keep in mind
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#100 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 12:16 PM

Honestly, whats the point of denying Luongo has problems in the playoffs? If we find ourselves in the same situation next playoff, are you guys still going to be saying this is a team problem when Luongo lets in 8 goals on 19 shots? Again, what is the point?

The Canuck organization itself has already taken measures to try and fix this, such as reducing the number of games he plays, removing the "C", and getting a new goaltending coach. They dont seem to be ingoring the issue, they are trying to remedy the situation.

And if he struggles again inexplicably next playoff, I wont be in the least bit surprised if they go to Scnieder a lot more quickly, because that would be consistent with their thinking this whole time. They are not ignoring this problem, they are trying to fix it, because I think the fate of the entire team is more important then potentially bruising Luongo's ego.
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#101 Nevlach

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:00 PM

I agree with this article...the problem is, people don't care about stats and facts. They look at Cup rings only. Its too bad for Luo because it just puts more pressure on the guy. If we want to win we need to support him. Period.
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#102 mugpot

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:11 PM

I've backed Luongo for a long time but he most undoubtedly DOES have meltdowns, in the playoffs and in the regular season. They are usually 3-4 games long.

Canucks didn't score a lot of goals in the games in Boston or in Game 7 but Luongo did not hold the Canucks in those games. In almost all of them Vancouver started good then Boston got the first goal, and Luongo couldn't shut the door on anything after that allowing the games to get out of hand changing the dynamic of them completely.
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#103 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:55 PM

What a load of rubbish.

The entire team was playing on one leg and almost won a cup for Luongo.

The only position not decimated by injury was the goaltender position.

Give it a rest.


Yeah... Which is why he posted 2 shutouts in the SCF alone.

Please don't tell me you think we should've won the Cup since Lu was not injured. As far as I know, goalies don't score goals.
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There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#104 sameer666

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:38 AM

No, it was the entire team that got us there, not him alone and while it wasn't him singlehandedly who lost game 7 either, shoddy defense and poor production up front did that. but please! what can you tell me about the 12 goals against in games 3 and 4 and the 9 he coughed up in 6 and 7? his GAA was worst than Roloson's for crying out loud! I don't care how you slice it there's only one to point the finger at and that's your boy bobby Lou, and I know Lou's weak in the head and blah blah blah but it's not entirely his fault, right AV?


Dude, if a team scores 7 goals in 6 games, i dont care how YOU slice it. The goalie is the reason you got to game 7. Find me another series where a team has scored 7 goals and made it to game 7. please. i challenge you. =)

Edited by sameer666, 09 October 2011 - 03:54 AM.

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#105 Riviera82

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:18 AM

The better question is, would you have Cloutier in net or Luongo??

Luongo is the best goalie the Canucks ever had, maybe even better than Mclean. Name another goalie who has been nominated TWICE for Vezina and played in the SCF while with the Canucks. I really can't name anyone? Cloutier? Potvin? Weekes? lol!


McLean.
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#106 Riviera82

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

How do you define "big games"? Pretty much any game where his team could be eliminated is what I would say is the "big games".

2007

Dallas - game 7 - canucks win, Luongo stops 19 of 20 shots with a 94.4 sv%
Anaheim - game 5 - canucks lose, Luongo stops 56 of 58 shots with a 96.5 sv%

2009

Chicago - game 6 - canucks lose, Luongo stops 23 of 30 shots with a 76.7 sv%

2010

Chicago - game 5 - canucks win, Luongo stops 29 of 30 shots with a 96.7 sv%
Chicago - game 6 - canucks lose, Luongo stops 30 of 35 shots with a 85.7 sv%

2011

Chicago - game 7 - canucks win, Luongo stops 31 of 32 shots with a 96.8 sv%
Boston - game 7 - canucks lose, Luongo stops 17 of 20 shots with a 85.0 sv%

Let's include international "big games"

1999 World Juniors

Russia - gold medal - Canada loses, Luongo stops 37 of 40 shots with a 92.5 sv%

2010 Olympics

USA - gold medal - Canada wins, Luongo stops 34 of 36 shots with a 94.4 sv%

Add them all up and you get 6 solid performances and 3 weak ones and an average of 91.7 sv% in big games

Anyone know what Luongo's career playoff save % is?....91.7%

Exactly the same as in "big games" on average


Luongo is just a loser, plain and simple. Aside from the 2010 Olympics, all Luongo has done is lose, unless of course the games are meaningless, then he`ll win.
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#107 Bodee

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

NO!................our D hangs him out to dry.
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#108 Bodee

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

I've backed Luongo for a long time but he most undoubtedly DOES have meltdowns, in the playoffs and in the regular season. They are usually 3-4 games long.

Canucks didn't score a lot of goals in the games in Boston or in Game 7 but Luongo did not hold the Canucks in those games. In almost all of them Vancouver started good then Boston got the first goal, and Luongo couldn't shut the door on anything after that allowing the games to get out of hand changing the dynamic of them completely.


Are you reading this as you type it.

Why does our offence crap the bed so much in the SC?
How did we even get to game 7 with a mangled team?

Dear me you don't even spot irony when you are the author of it yourself.
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#109 nucklehead

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

This is exactly why i get so pissed off when everyone calls for Luongos head. As far as im concerned, Luongo was the reason we didnt get SWEPT in the SCF... We couldnt score goals to save our lives, we could have lost 2-0 in game 7 and it still wouldnt have mattered because we couldnt put the puck in the back of the net.

Using game 7 in this arguement isn't a legitimate comparison. Scoring has been a problem though.
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#110 Westcoasting

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

I would call game 6 of the finals a huge meltdown, game 7 he didn't meltdown but also couldn't make a big time save and then the next two goals were of dubious quality. There is a reason why a guy like Patrick Roy won so many... he came up big in the biggest games.
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#111 Bodee

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

Against LA.
Our whole attack scored 15 points in 5 games...................4 goals! scored by our attacking players. 2 of them by one player (Hank)

LET ME SPELL IT OUT

Booth scored 1 ass in 5 games

Hansen scored 1 goal in 5 games

Higgins had 0 points in 5 games

Kesler had 3 ass in 5 games

Lapierre scored 1 ass in 5 games

Malhotra had 0 points in 5 games

Raymond scored 1 ass in 5 games

D Sedin had 2 ass in 2 games

H Sedin scored 2 goals and 3 ass in 5 games

D Weise 0 pts in 2 games

Burrows scored 1 goal in 5 games.

Bitz had 0 points in 1 game

Kassian had 0 points in 4 games.

If you open your eyes and look at these stats, it's not our goalie we have to worry about in the playoffs.

We are convinced we are stacked in our offence but is this really the case?

Edited by Bodee, 09 January 2013 - 10:07 AM.

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#112 higgyfan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

Where I have found Lu frustrating is the number of times the Canucks score and then Lu lets in a soft one soon afterwards. I also don't like the 'belly flopping' he does, which often ends up being a goal. It isn't just Nuck fans that think he is mentally soft - check out fans of most other teams. Even the management seems to have lost faith in him. I also didn't like it when AV would leave him in goal when the other team was running up the score.

I do agree that the entire team should be taking responsibility for their SC performances (or lack of). This team needs to find a way to score beyond the regular season. There certainly is a 'soft' element amongst our forwards. I don't see a lot of 'push back' there. I think MG thought that a SC could be won by skill alone. In the past few years, we are seeing that toughness is also important factor. Not giving up, not getting knocked off the puck, not wanting someone to 'pump your tires, not being power punched by a little puke, not blaming the refs, etc.
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#113 Merci

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

Good article.

I always like to remind people how well Luongo would have had to have played in order for us to have beat Boston.

Game 1 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 2 - Canucks have a good game and score 3 - Luongo can't let it more than 2

Game 3 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 4 - Canucks are shutout - Luongo must be perfect for 60 minutes +

Game 5 - Canucks score 1 goal - Luongo must be perfect

Game 6 - Canucks score 2 goals - Luongo can't let in more than 1

Game 7 - Canucks are shutout - Luongo must be perfect for 60 minutes +

Obviously games 4 and 7 would be the hardest for Luongo to win, but luckily we only need four wins to get the cup, so lets see what numbers he would need to have led us to a cup:

In order to win games 1, 2, (either 3 or 5) and 6, Luongo could only let in 3 goals over these 4 games. So he needed to have a GAA of 0.75 in order to bring us the cup. Oddly enough, Tim Thomas did just that, 0.75 GAA in the 4 games Boston won.

So the only possible way for us to have won the cup would be for us to get Vezina quality goaltending that was far and away the best goaltending in the playoffs. Hardly sounds like our forwards and defense (awesome as they were) gave Luongo much of a chance. Anyone who wasn't Thomas would have similarly 'lost us' the series. Despite this, we still won three games, probably in large part due to Luongo's world class ability. A lesser goalie might have let us get swept.


More like Luongo let in 3 goals in the 1st period of game 3,4, and 6.

Kinda of hard to score a goal when it's 4-0

Lu implodes in the playoffs. it's a fact
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#114 D-Money

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

2007-08 - Last 6 games: 4.59 GAA, 0.837 Sv%
2008-09 - Last 6 games: 3.31 GAA, 0.879 Sv%
2009-10 - Last 6 games: 3.52 GAA, 0.897 Sv%
2010-11 - Last 6 games: 4.12 GAA, 0.864 Sv%
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#115 Nino

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

2007-08 - Last 6 games: 4.59 GAA, 0.837 Sv%
2008-09 - Last 6 games: 3.31 GAA, 0.879 Sv%
2009-10 - Last 6 games: 3.52 GAA, 0.897 Sv%
2010-11 - Last 6 games: 4.12 GAA, 0.864 Sv%


Yes Lou really melts down in the playoffs, don't even know why this is a question or why anyone would question it. The reason for the meltdowns is debatable but not if he has them.
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#116 kilgore

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

Seriously? You guys want to resurrect this old OP just on the eve of the season starting up and our GM looking to offload him?
:picard:
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#117 TimberWolf

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

NVMD, replied to a post that's way too old.

Edited by TimberWolf, 09 January 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#118 Primus099

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

My question is 'why isn't he pulled before his numbers become ultra-embarrassing for the night?'


exactly this, AV leaving him in for 8 in game 3 was f--king ridiculous
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#119 Noheart

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

Oh look my fellow Luongo worshiping cult members a article proving our lord is as we say he is "divine"
Oh Luongo lover brothers and sisters I bless this article with dippity doo and from this day forward include it into our sacred bible

Let us all gather in this thread for mass, please feel free to add your testimony and prove satan aka Schneider is to be cast to Hell aka the bench.
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BEASTLY!!!

#120 hudson bay rules

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

Elite goalies have better numbers in the playoffs than they do in regular season. There are fewer goals scored in the playoffs if ya didn't know.

Patrick Roy .921 vs .910
Martin Brodeur .921 vs .913
Miikka Kiprosoff .921 vs .914

Roberto Luongo .916 vs .919

Edited by hudson bay rules, 09 January 2013 - 02:20 PM.

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