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**Why would Anyone Want to play for Vancouver?**


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#1 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:58 AM

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Hardcore Canuck fan here to ask some questions, ..please dont troll I would like to have an honest conversation. Can you please answer me this question, why would any High Valued Free Agent, possibly the missing piece to our Stanley Cup puzzle, ever want to sign/waive NTC to play for the Canucks.


The "fans" treat the team like crap, there is always a scapregoat! ALWAYS!, last year it was Bieksa this year its Luongo. We jeer the guy who took us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, a guy who won the Jennings Award last year and had a CAREER YEAR? a guys who got 2 SHUTOUTS in the Finals. Exhausted from the Months of playoff battle wearing the Canuck uniform proudly only to have a short summer, 2 pre season games and now we crucify him for not playing up to our standards. Is he playing like crap, yep, does he deserve this disrespect? hell no.

Back to the point tho, Who was the last big big free agent player the Canucks grabbed, and im talking about non previous Canuck players so the Sedins, Bieksa etc dont count. Highly Ranked UFA's...hmmm Hamhuis? Samuelsson? Malhotra?...Messier??? No superstar will ever sign here, why should they???

Do you not think that the whole league doesn't see how Vancouver fans treat the team like garbage? and put them in such scrutiny and judgement. They're "professionals" you say, well I say they are humans...NOBODY wants to play in this environment, its an environement where players are set up to fail instead of succeed. Vancouver has been filled with nothing but negativity.


Let's say we make everyones wish come true and we trade Luongo! GREAT! its Schneider Time! Cory Scneider has 1 year left of RFA status then he can choose not to re-sign a contract and walk away from the Canucks!! Do you really think Schneider will want to sign here after seeing what just happened to Luongo??

"for a guy who has done more for this franchise than any other goalie probably in the history of the team you'd think he'd get a bit more slack or some leeway before the fans get on him" -Cory Schneider

Shea Webber to Vancouver next year!!??? why? so he can be humiliated in front of his family and friends day in and day out if he so happens to hit a rut like most players do? And if you think this is a Luongo thing its not, like I said we treat our stars like garbage, Bieksa last year, Sedins in previous years, Naslund in his twilight years, even the great Captain Kirk Maclean in the mid 90's was treated like crap. Even Bure asked for a trade (management issues supposodely)...

So back to the question, why would any player want to sign/waive NTC to come to Vancouver?? to win a cup?? theres 8 other teams they can do that for and not have to go thru this.

If you're a pending Unrestricted Free Agent lets say the likes of; Doan, Semin, Webber, Parise etc etc...what do you see? A fan base known for rioting, a fanbase that constantly treat their own players like crap and puts an immense amount of pressure, a building soooo quiet, a travel schedule incomparable to any and a scrutiny from fanbase and media that can abolish a career.

So people can talk all they want about nice dressing rooms and sleep doctors and a province full of "fans" but that is not how the rest of league perceives the Canucks.


So keep going Vancouver fans, the jeering and the negativity will surely end our 40+ years of misery!

Edited by carlweezer, 19 August 2012 - 11:07 PM.

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#2 Gz

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:03 AM

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Because the management is logical and understanding, players are treated incredibly well, the fans are passionate (the real ones, not the bandwagoners and rioters), we have a very good team full of skilled players and great dressing room guys... The list goes on bud.
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totally agree although i wouldnt have minded jvr in a 3 way.


Context, people, context.

#3 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:07 AM

Because the management is logical and understanding, players are treated incredibly well, the fans are passionate (the real ones, not the bandwagoners and rioters), we have a very good team full of skilled players and great dressing room guys... The list goes on bud.



then why no big Signings since Messier?

fans are passionate?? I'm a season ticket holder for the last 3 years and Rogers Arena is one of the MOST quietest buildings and arenas ive ever been to! even during the playoffs! its ridiculous how loud and positive an arena like Nashville or Chicago is compared to Rogers arena. So wheres this passion you speak of? We throw our players under the bus the moment they arent reaching our expectations, thats not passsion.
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#4 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:09 AM

then why no big Signings since Messier?

fans are passionate?? I'm a season ticket holder for the last 3 years and Rogers Arena is one of the MOST quietest buildings and arenas ive ever been to! even during the playoffs! its ridiculous how loud and positive an arena like Nashville or Chicago is compared to Rogers arena. So wheres this passion you speak of? We throw our players under the bus the moment they arent reaching our expectations, thats not passsion.

Supporting the team only when they are doing well and winning is not passion.


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#5 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:10 AM

Montreal is worse. Erik Cole might have doomed himself with that huge contract, but he still signed with them.
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Hockey_Crazy is a god. But I still got dibs on Yuna.

#6 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:11 AM

Montreal is worse. Erik Cole might have doomed himself with that huge contract, but he still signed with them.



well we are pretty close to pulling what Montreal did to Patrick Roy to what we are doing to Luongo.

and I've been to games at the old Montreal Forum or the new Bell Centre, those are some loud loud fans! its an atmosphere every hockey fan should experience.


And I dont really care what other cities are worse, I'm talking about Vancouver.

Edited by carlweezer, 20 October 2011 - 02:14 AM.

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#7 The Bookie

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:11 AM

Is it me, or is the era of The Big Free Agent Signing coming to an end (or at least slowing down)? Feels like even a few years ago there were a lot more payoffs from blockbuster trades or big money signings, but the last couple years they seem to go bust more than boom. Seems like as the game gets more clinical the value of a homegrown talent that came up through your system will win you championships.

edited to add- also chemistry!

Edited by The Bookie, 20 October 2011 - 02:16 AM.

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#8 DYU3ster

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:12 AM

Wow, you both got minus already for posting an interesting debate. So, I gave you +1 back.I agree with the above posters ahead of the quality of treatment from the upper management. (ie. dressing rooms, sleep doctor, etc) all contributing factors for players to signing here.

The downside is, we play in a competitive hockey market, we accept nothing less than a cup. And that has put a lot of pressure on players to perform. I could be a deteriorating factor for high profile players choosing not to sign in Vancouver, unless they can cope with the constant media coverage.
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#9 raad_luongo

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:14 AM

Why dont our pending ufa's count? They all had options to sign somewhere else. They all knew what they were getting into so if they dont like playing infront of soldout arena's and playing infront of fans who actually care for the team then leave.

Ya we may be a little rough around the edges but can you blame us? We have gone through 40 years of frustration yet we still shell out top dollar to watch the games.

Almost every canuck took a paycut because they want to play here.
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#10 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:17 AM

Why dont our pending ufa's count? They all had options to sign somewhere else. They all knew what they were getting into so if they dont like playing infront of soldout arena's and playing infront of fans who actually care for the team then leave.

Ya we may be a little rough around the edges but can you blame us? We have gone through 40 years of frustration yet we still shell out top dollar to watch the games.

Almost every canuck took a paycut because they want to play here.



they dont count because of circumstances like already having a family here and they dont want to remove them from their lives, its espeically tough on children.

Edited by carlweezer, 20 October 2011 - 02:24 AM.

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#11 Ron Burgundy

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:17 AM

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Maybe no "big name" players have signed here recently because we don't need them. Our team is already good enough, minus a proven 2nd line winger to play with Kes, although Hodgson is proving that he is our 2nd line guy. We have no need for the "Messiers" on our team because all of our high profile positions are filled. Don't fix something that isn't broken. When we are in need of a big name FA in the future, we'll get him.
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#12 KillerOrca

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:18 AM

then why no big Signings since Messier?

fans are passionate?? I'm a season ticket holder for the last 3 years and Rogers Arena is one of the MOST quietest buildings and arenas ive ever been to! even during the playoffs! its ridiculous how loud and positive an arena like Nashville or Chicago is compared to Rogers arena. So wheres this passion you speak of? We throw our players under the bus the moment they arent reaching our expectations, thats not passsion.


Ive noticed this too.. Our fans/building are/is so quiet : /
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#13 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:20 AM

Wow, you both got minus already for posting an interesting debate. So, I gave you +1 back.I agree with the above posters ahead of the quality of treatment from the upper management. (ie. dressing rooms, sleep doctor, etc) all contributing factors for players to signing here.

The downside is, we play in a competitive hockey market, we accept nothing less than a cup. And that has put a lot of pressure on players to perform. I could be a deteriorating factor for high profile players choosing not to sign in Vancouver, unless they can cope with the constant media coverage.


you know whats better than sleep doctors?? signing in the EAST and never having to leave your timezone. and Canucks fans act like were the only team that has a nice dressing room..sure we maybe brand new and top of the line but is the scale really even when you compare a nice dressing room to fan scrutiny and unfair treatment?

Edited by carlweezer, 20 October 2011 - 02:23 AM.

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#14 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:22 AM

Maybe no "big name" players have signed here recently because we don't need them. Our team is already good enough, minus a proven 2nd line winger to play with Kes, although Hodgson is proving that he is our 2nd line guy. We have no need for the "Messiers" on our team because all of our high profile positions are filled. Don't fix something that isn't broken. When we are in need of a big name FA in the future, we'll get him.


So since Messier we have never needed a big name player a game breaker to sign in Vancouver because we were winning sooo many cups without them???

IF a team that had Crosby-Malkin-Staal needed a guy like Hossa then we are in no position to say we dont need any big time free agent signings.
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#15 Gz

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:23 AM

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then why no big Signings since Messier?

fans are passionate?? I'm a season ticket holder for the last 3 years and Rogers Arena is one of the MOST quietest buildings and arenas ive ever been to! even during the playoffs! its ridiculous how loud and positive an arena like Nashville or Chicago is compared to Rogers arena. So wheres this passion you speak of? We throw our players under the bus the moment they arent reaching our expectations, thats not passsion.



Most of the players you would consider "big signings" re-sign with their original/long time clubs. It's a combination of that club offering what they have to and that player liking where they are and wanting to stay. We also spend to the cap and often wouldn't be able to afford such contracts. Gaborik? Richards? Yeah, they would have been huge signings, but are they worth blowing up our team for? Not a chance. Don't forget that the Sedins, Luongo, and Kesler are all stars in the league and have re-signed. We don't need to make huge FA splashes, because what this team needs to add is depth and role players. Also, Mats Sundin was a pretty big signing, even though he only played half the season.

The only game I've ever been able to attend was a pre-season game this season, and I cheered my heart out. The fan base is province wide; not all the most passionate fans can come to the games. They're the ones that don't have the $100 for nosebleed tickets, or live too far from the city to just go and see a game. A lot of the fans you're talking about are the younger, more impatient ones that are internet savvy (due to their youth...) and panic at the smallest imperfections (due to lack of patience and maturity). That's my theory anyway. No team is perfect, and no fanbase is perfect, especially when the team is something they really take a connection to.

If the Phoenix Coyotes lost the Stanley Cup Final, would "fans" be rioting? No. If they won the SCF, would tens of thousands of people celebrate their teams victory? I'd like to think so, but no. Having a large fan base magnifies the negativity, as well as the positivity during the team's success. The Canucks have a very large number of fans, so what do you expect? It's the exact same with any Canadian team, as well as a few American teams (Bruins, Rangers, Red Wings...)

Edited by Raine Maida, 20 October 2011 - 02:29 AM.

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totally agree although i wouldnt have minded jvr in a 3 way.


Context, people, context.

#16 raad_luongo

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:23 AM

they dont count because of circumstances like already having a family here and they dont want to remove them from their lives, its espeically tough on childred.


So luongo didnt want to leave vancouver because it would be hard on his 1 year old daughter?
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#17 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:30 AM

So luongo didnt want to leave vancouver because it would be hard on his 1 year old daughter?


he was never a UFA. ironic how you use him as an example when he is getting ran out of town by the second.


Sedins, Bieksa, Salo etc.. all has families all has ties to Canucks org because we drafted them.
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#18 Twilight Sparkle

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:33 AM

Can't get big name mega stars with the salary cap era without overpaying them and that's something management won't do. There was the Sundin debacle however. If we do get some named stars, it's mostly because they have family here, love the city and want to be on a winning team. They're professionals. For the most part, ignore the fans and do their job. If Schneider does end up leaving it'll be so he can land a #1 gig elsewhere and doesn't want to be a back up

Shea Webber to Vancouver next year!!??? why? so he can be humiliated in front of his family and friends day in and day out

I think that's stretching it a little too far. it's not like he'll report to the stocks so we can all throw tomatoes at them. This team has been in the tops of the league for a few years now, went to the cup finals so they (the fans) want the team to perform at the level they're capable of. They go overboard sometimes but as professionals they look at it as part of the business. This is why some players like to play in lesser markets with little to no exposure. In places like Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, the fans and media are all over you like flies. Some players don't mind the exposure-- maybe almost embrace it, some prefer keeping a low profile. There's really nothing wrong with playing in Vancouver
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#19 raad_luongo

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:33 AM

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Your an idiot... We haven't had the oppertunity to land a "BIG" free agent because we have no cap space due to the fact we were able to sign "BIG" name players within our organization... y dont u name a time we had a legitimate opportunity to sign a UFA... Kovy? Brad Richards? can we afford a 7 million dollars big name free agent? u idiot... and you say bieksa got heat one year, and sedins another year... ya with a loss thats gonna happen anywhere... u dont think ovechkin, joe thornton, kovalchuk and all these guys get scrutinized when they have bad years or playoffs... yeah luongo is gettin the blame but thats because for 3 straight years we have lost our playoff series because hes given up 4, 5, 6, 7 goals... do any other top goalies consistantly give up that many goals?


I agree with some of your points bro but there is no need for name calling. Were just having a conversation here.
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#20 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:38 AM

Most of the players you would consider "big signings" re-sign with their original/long time clubs. It's a combination of that club offering what they have to and that player liking where they are and wanting to stay. We also spend to the cap and often wouldn't be able to afford such contracts. Gaborik? Richards? Yeah, they would have been huge signings, but are they worth blowing up our team for? Not a chance. Don't forget that the Sedins, Luongo, and Kesler are all stars in the league and have re-signed. We don't need to make huge FA splashes, because what this team needs to add is depth and role players. Also, Mats Sundin was a pretty big signing, even though he only played half the season.

The only game I've ever been able to attend was a pre-season game this season, and I cheered my heart out. The fan base is province wide; not all the most passionate fans can come to the games. They're the ones that don't have the $100 for nosebleed tickets, or live too far from the city to just go and see a game. A lot of the fans you're talking about are the younger, more impatient ones that are internet savvy (due to their youth...) and panic at the smallest imperfections (due to lack of patience and maturity). That's my theory anyway. No team is perfect, and no fanbase is perfect, especially when the team is something they really take a connection to.

If the Phoenix Coyotes lost the Stanley Cup Final, would "fans" be rioting? No. If they won the SCF, would tens of thousands of people celebrate their teams victory? I'd like to think so, but no. Having a large fan base magnifies the negativity, as well as the positivity during the team's success. The Canucks have a very large number of fans, so what do you expect? It's the exact same with any Canadian team, as well as a few American teams (Bruins, Rangers, Red Wings...)



If you're a pending Unrestricted Free Agent lets say the likes of; Doan, Semin, Webber, Parise etc etc...what do you see? A fan base known for rioting, a fanbase that constantly treat their own players like crap and puts an immense amount of pressure, a building soooo quiet, a travel schedule incomparable to any and a scrutiny from fanbase and media that can abolish a career.

So people can talk all they want about nice dressing rooms and sleep doctors and a province full of "fans" but that is not how the rest of league perceives the Canucks.
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#21 Canucks1207

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:40 AM

I agree with some of your points bro but there is no need for name calling. Were just having a conversation here.


lol sorry got a little carried away, my bad
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#22 Legstrong

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:44 AM

This is a Canadian city and hockey is Canada's game. Sure a player is under the microscope here, but signing a contract (especially after a few seasons of playing for the Canucks in Luongo's case) means that the player understands the situation and embraces it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the player who uses the scrutiny as motivation to succeed is a champion, the player who uses it as an excuse is not.

And for the record, if you don't want to attract trolls, leave the troll bait (ie hyperbolic statements) out of your rants.
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#23 Burnsey

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:45 AM

then why no big Signings since Messier?

fans are passionate?? I'm a season ticket holder for the last 3 years and Rogers Arena is one of the MOST quietest buildings and arenas ive ever been to! even during the playoffs! its ridiculous how loud and positive an arena like Nashville or Chicago is compared to Rogers arena. So wheres this passion you speak of? We throw our players under the bus the moment they arent reaching our expectations, thats not passsion.


we don't really need a superstar forward at this point as we have the Sedins and Kesler continues to get better each season.
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#24 WestCoastCanucks

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:46 AM

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Players DO want to play here. It's an awesome city with a passionate(sometimes a little too crazy) fan base. Most importantly the organization has the desire to win and will do everything in it's power to do so. They treat players well and I think the rest of the league knows that. Look no further than the players poll done by CBC last year: http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ike-to-play-on/

We were tied for second when asked which team would you most like to play for which is pretty impressive considering we have never won a cup. And Vancouver always finishes at the top or near the top when these polls come out every year. I think it gives a pretty good indication that players do want to play here.

Edited by WestCoastCanucks, 20 October 2011 - 02:46 AM.

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#25 Legstrong

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:49 AM

If you're a pending Unrestricted Free Agent lets say the likes of; Doan, Semin, Webber, Parise etc etc...what do you see? A fan base known for rioting, a fanbase that constantly treat their own players like crap and puts an immense amount of pressure, a building soooo quiet, a travel schedule incomparable to any and a scrutiny from fanbase and media that can abolish a career.

So people can talk all they want about nice dressing rooms and sleep doctors and a province full of "fans" but that is not how the rest of league perceives the Canucks.


No, this is about how YOU perceive how the rest of the league feels about the Canucks. Living in other Canadian cities and seeing how their fans treat their teams would be an eye-opener for you.

Edited by Legstrong, 20 October 2011 - 02:50 AM.

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#26 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:49 AM

Sundin would like to say hi to the original poster
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#27 raad_luongo

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:51 AM

If you're a pending Unrestricted Free Agent lets say the likes of; Doan, Semin, Webber, Parise etc etc...what do you see? A fan base known for rioting, a fanbase that constantly treat their own players like crap and puts an immense amount of pressure, a building soooo quiet, a travel schedule incomparable to any and a scrutiny from fanbase and media that can abolish a career.

So people can talk all they want about nice dressing rooms and sleep doctors and a province full of "fans" but that is not how the rest of league perceives the Canucks.


We treat them like crap? We still cheered for them after game 7! You play well you get treated well. You play like crap for an extended period of time your gonna hear it. Its not like we booed luongo after 1 or 2 games. Its 3 years of letdowns.

You wanna make the big bucks then your gonna have to deal with it. You dont like it then go play in pheonix. Every single canadian market is like this you do know that right.
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#28 Gz

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:52 AM

If you're a pending Unrestricted Free Agent lets say the likes of; Doan, Semin, Webber, Parise etc etc...what do you see? A fan base known for rioting, a fanbase that constantly treat their own players like crap and puts an immense amount of pressure, a building soooo quiet, a travel schedule incomparable to any and a scrutiny from fanbase and media that can abolish a career.

So people can talk all they want about nice dressing rooms and sleep doctors and a province full of "fans" but that is not how the rest of league perceives the Canucks.


So why would they think any other clubs are better?

Every player has their own different places they want to be, would be if they needed to, and don't want to be. Does Doan want to leave the organization he's been with his whole career? Nope. Does Semin want to leave the competitive team in Washington, playing with fellow Russian teammates and friends Backstrom and Ovechkin? Doubt it. Does Weber want to play somewhere else? Probably, but he was an RFA, so he doesn't count anyway. Parise? The Devils seemed to have to do everything they could to get him to stay; even made him Captain. And they still only re-signed him for one year.

Despite what you see, you don't see every city the way a player sees each city, and neither you nor I can say for sure. But I think I've hit the nail pretty close to the head. There's many more factors than the city and the team itself.
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totally agree although i wouldnt have minded jvr in a 3 way.


Context, people, context.

#29 carlweezer

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:56 AM

No, this is about how YOU perceive how the rest of the league feels about the Canucks. Living in other Canadian cities and seeing how their fans treat their teams would be an eye-opener for you.


hows that just my perception?? Canuck fans treat their players like crap? I'm not proud of it but to say this is just My perception is a little naive...

Remeber the "sedin sisters"....bieksa was traded before the season even started last year...Naslund isnt Captain material...etc etc I can go on! The whole league sees this! they watched us humilate ourselves by jeering Luongo on National Television on Tuesday....this is not just my perception...
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#30 Bodee

Bodee

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:57 AM

Firstly I think the argument is flawed. Surely any big name player coming to a team like Vancouver is not going to assume he will bomb, so why should he worry about fan reaction. The only problem Vancouver seems to have is it's geographical position and yes that might influence some USA born players.

With regard to the fans I agree with the above posters, the fan base is massive world wide and is set to get even bigger in my view if they maintain their momentum.

Regarding the noise in the arena, there is a certain irony here because the only other similar accusation I have heard is constantly made at Manchester United. People in England put this down to their success filling their stadium with, shall we say "more well off fans" from around England who want to be associated with success.

The implication is they are too reserved to make too much noise compared to the working classes. Of course the season ticket prices may also lead to the stadium attracting that type of fan. Compare this with loud stadiums in working class places like Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow. I don't live in Canada so I don't know if there is any correlation.

A psychologist I suppose could advance this theory one step further and argue that this is also the reason why the fans react so badly to lack of success. They feel they need a successful team to go with their successful lifestyle. THE TEAM OWES IT TO THEM in their mind.

One criticism that I feel can't be levelled at this great hockey club is that their management and organisation is arguably not one of, if not the most advanced thinking and professional set ups in the league. I also applaud their fantastic links to the community and to the province.

Finally I would ask the OP where the evidence of players turning down a chance to come to Vancouver is. If he has evidence then have these players given reasons and if so what were they? (other than it's geographical position which is probably the only one I would accept with any validity)

Edited by Bodee, 20 October 2011 - 05:36 AM.

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