canucks since 77 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I didn't say you were eroding them. The question was clearly based on one of your ideas which would erode a freedom we all have as Canadians. I guess to word it more literally I should have said 'Why are you putting out ideas that erode our freedoms?'. Is that better? Let me ask you something. What makes the green or marijuana party the lesser evil to the NDP? Is it just because they have no chance? I always hear that "lesser evil" argument and nobody has yet been able to convince me that it's not BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 This made me laugh. It's true it's just such an odd statement to have to make. :D IMO for any real change you have to start with winnable battles. Trying to overthrow a government in Canada isn't winnable, trying any massive change with an unorganized, disillusioned and leaderless movement is not winnable, etc etc etc. Either these groups need to be shooting for a few smaller targets (legalization of marijuana, electoral reforms, etc etc) rather than this broad blast of everything under the god damn sun and moon. If these people want real change and real support they need to first stop referring to 99%. They aren't the 99% in the way they think they are and far more than 1% of people want to distance themselves from many the group as a whole; myself included. (Sorry but as a whole the "99%" is a joke.) Next they need to band all of these people together and get some actual leadership. This kum bye ya BS isn't going to do anything. Once they get the leadership they start garnering support. If it's a story the media will cover it. I know you have this belief that the media will only lie and will stand on the side on "conbots" but that's not true. The media will report on whatever is going to bring attention to their station. They were never reporting lies out of any camps they were just reporting the F ups who were making everybody look like morons. Why would they do this? F ups are entertaining that's why. I used to sometimes just watch my brother f up things. It was entertaining as all hell. Anywho...get leadership, garner support, legitimize the movement and then move into the political scene. I'm sorry to say but hanging outside a library or outside science world isn't going to do anything of any importance. Yes it's going to get the message out but that's as far as it probably go. Do you really think the majority of people don't think everything is completely f'ed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks since 77 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 No we do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks since 77 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 You need a revolutionary idea or a revolutionary person to rally around, if one wants to affect social change by waking a slumbering society. It doesn't matter which one it is; idea or person, the symbol of and for the grassroots and then the mainstream average person is what's most important, and in my humble opinion, that's what's missing. The idea is scattered, fuzzy and not focused and the movement is leaderless. Too many cooks in the Vancouver kitchen who can't cook worth a damn, I think. The failure to rally is a failure of messaging, symbolism, execution, staging, mobilizing en masse.....all which are dependent on one another. Had these good intentioned wankers targeted the from steps of a corporation or institution that symbolizes greed and corruption of the economic or political system, then they would have been able to show the people who is the 'enemy' and then they could have informed the public as to why they are and then they could have called for some action or remedy while rallying around the larger ideas the are working in other cities. But they didn't and haven't, they're camped out in their unfocused, milque-toast nincompoopery. But that's just my opinion, as I see it, currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Ahhh. So you think our Gov't should be allowed to follow the course they have chosen? Even if it's detrimental to most Canadians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks since 77 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Who determines the baseline of "detrimental"? I'll give an example: Fracking - harms the enviro, helps oil business and brings in billions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Then how do we get the majority of people that know that it is completely srewed up involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Who determines the baseline of "detrimental"? I'll give an example: Fracking - harms the enviro, helps oil business and brings in billions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks since 77 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Sorry folks, I'm tired and exhausted from teaching my father how to use a crossbow today so I'm gonna bail till tomorrow. Ciao. I also learned how to spell tomorrow so that should make at least one poster happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Well, let me put it to you this way. Would you rather vote for the parties that have long lists of questionable acts or the little party that has never had a chance. It's the media and political spin that keeps these parties in the basement. The larger parties don't wan't their piece of political pie reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Sorry folks, I'm tired and exhausted from teaching my father how to use a crossbow today so I'm gonna bail till tomorrow. Ciao. I also learned how to spell tomorrow so that should make at least one poster happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Ahhh. So you think our Gov't should be allowed to follow the course they have chosen? Even if it's detrimental to most Canadians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The latest complaint from OV supporters: It seems they did not bother to read the City by-law. It exempts "police, fire, ambulance, or other emergency motor vehicle in the course of the performance of police, fire, ambulance, or other emergency duties including training activities." http://vancouver.ca/bylaws/9344c.PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Records can and are regularly falsified, as our current gov't has shown. We need a concrete way to tell who's lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The latest complaint from OV supporters: It seems they did not bother to read the City by-law. It exempts "police, fire, ambulance, or other emergency motor vehicle in the course of the performance of police, fire, ambulance, or other emergency duties including training activities." http://vancouver.ca/bylaws/9344c.PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 That's pretty petty of the police though.....and it could be argued that they are intentionally trying to expose the protesters to noxious fumes, rather than idly exposing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 It's a smart and legal move, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Exhaust fumes contain high levels of CO and are considered dangerous when one is subjected to direct exposure. I don't see any legal argument that shows authorities are allowed to subject citizens to potentially dangerous carbon monoxide poisoning asa way to discourage those citizens' constitutional rights to peacefully assemble in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 But there's no legal documentation that says they aren't. Inversely, I can say that the cops are there to protect the protester's safety and are creating an area where the protesters are allowed to protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Exhaust fumes contain high levels of CO and are considered dangerous when one is subjected to direct exposure. I don't see any legal argument that shows authorities are allowed to subject citizens to potentially dangerous carbon monoxide poisoning asa way to discourage those citizens' constitutional rights to peacefully assemble in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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