Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * * - 4 votes

The Parallels to Anaheim's Hiller-Giguere Situation.


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
50 replies to this topic

#1 WeatherWise

WeatherWise

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: 20-September 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:52 AM

Many fans have been comparing our team's current goaltending situation to Boston's Rask-Thomas combination. While it is fair to remain optimistic, there have been many situations in the past in which established high-priced former "superstar" goaltenders have been ousted from their starting position by rising, younger goalies. The clearest, most recent and most similar example would be what happened just two seasons ago in Anaheim.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere had just won the Stanley Cup in 2007. In 2003 he was the Conn Smythe winner on the losing side of the Stanley Cup Finals. He was, by far, the best goaltender in franchise history and looked as though he would remain in Anaheim for the remainder of his career. He was on the third year of a four-year contract making $6 million per year. Jonas Hiller, on the other hand, had only played one year in the NHL as of 2008. Clearly, it seemed as though Hiller would be traded as nobody thought he would outperform Giguere in goal.

In Hiller's first year, he played 23 games while Giguere played 58. In his second season, 2008-09, Hiller played well. Giguere, on the other hand, struggled to stay at Hiller's pace. By season's end, they had both played 46 games each and it was clear who the better goaltender was, regardless of who was being paid $6 million. As a result, Hiller started the playoffs but the team was eliminated in the second round.

This scenario sounds very similar to the Thomas-Rask situation. The starting goaltender who had played spectacular the previous year, Thomas in Boston's case and Giguere in Anaheim's case, suddenly found himself as the backup for a few months and into the postseason. The difference occurred the very next season (2009-10 for Anaheim, 2010-11 for Boston).

While Tim Thomas regained his form and Tuuka Rask struggled in Boston the year after Thomas had initially lost his job, it was a very different situation in Anaheim. The 2009-10 season began with Hiller continuing his pace from his breakout season. Giguere had the opportunity to reclaim the starting job as Randy Carlyle was giving them both equal time to compete for it. Unfortunately, Giguere suffered a groin injury early in the season that kept him out of the lineup indefinitely. As a result, Hiller played a number of consecutive games and proved himself to be one of the most reliable players almost every single night, keeping nearly every score close. When Giguere returned, he could not outplay Hiller for the starting position.

Soon after, on January 31, 2010, the Ducks traded away their former Conn Smythe winner and Stanley Cup champion goaltender to Toronto for Vesa Toskala and Jason Blake.

Giguere was once coveted as one of the league's top goaltenders, known for being mentored by Francois Allaire in his junior days and at the professional level. Even though he was making $6 million, when both he and Hiller were allowed to compete, it was evident who the better goaltender was. Some people will try to compare our current goaltending situation as akin to Boston's goaltending situation. Unfortunately, these hopes and comparisons are reliant on Roberto outperforming Cory when he returns. If that does not happen, this easily becomes the aforementioned Hiller-Giguere situation.

What makes this year unique is that Schneider becomes a RFA at the end of this year and might not remain with this team beyond this season. In order to make the correct decision, General Manager Mike Gillis and team management will be pressured to make a decision as soon as possible. Unlike either the Boston or Anaheim situations, one of the goaltenders might be gone if we continue the status quo into the next season and show no urgency to make a decision soon. One of the goaltenders must be moved -- that is a fact that can not be denied. Both goaltenders are National Hockey League starters and one must be chosen over the other; it would be unfair to one of the goaltenders to have to relegate him to backup status, and would result in at least $8 million of our cap space being used on goaltending. For the team's sake and the goaltender's sake, one must be chosen and the other must be moved.

Some will say there is no controversy, and quote the very-much politically correct words of Alain Vigneault, Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo. Like nearly every single player interview in sports, however, the proper things are always said no matter what the situation may be. Cliches are used, supportive comments are always made about teammates, and no real answers are ever given. Additionally, everybody wants to give the impression they are humble and virtuous. An analogy that can be made is when your partner asks you how she looks in her new clothing -- you are almost always going to say the right things and keep the situation controlled, even if you may have another opinion of it. To keep people in check, no matter what the situation may be, the proper things are going to be said. There may be a goaltending controversy, but nobody will ever find out what the players are actually thinking to themselves because they want their outward appearance to be calm and supportive of each other. Those quotes provide no evidence regarding a player's position on the situation; they are merely to quell those who have no business knowing what is happening.

There are high hopes for Cory Schneider. We all want to cheer for him to succeed and perform well. He is a goaltender with such a bright future, and he has proven he can be our best player on any given night. If he plays well, his trade value will increase monumentally. If he performs too well, though, we must ask ourselves whether he actually makes this team better in the goaltending department, especially at a lower price than what our other goaltender is being paid. If this is the case, we will have ourselves a real controversy and a difficult decision to make. It is a decision that has been made before with other goaltending pairs, though.

Cory's RFA status has essentially shortened both the Boston and Anaheim situations from a two-year span to a matter of months. If Luongo can not outplay Schneider when he returns, and it is clear that Cory is our better goaltender at the end of this year, we must realize that it may be more beneficial to keep Schneider and move Roberto. It is entirely on Roberto's shoulders whether he stays or leaves -- all he needs to do is outperform Schneider. That will determine if he stays in Vancouver. If not, he will face the same fate as Jean-Sebastien Giguere.

Edited by WeatherWise, 29 November 2011 - 04:14 AM.

The greatest segue into a weather segment.

#2 DownUndaCanuck

DownUndaCanuck

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,194 posts
  • Joined: 28-July 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:00 AM

Anaheim really didn't develop Hiller very well. I mean, he's a great goalie, but only in inconsistent flashes. Sure some of it is due to his concussion, but he's never been a consistent goalie in this league because he wasn't transitioned nicely from a 20-game backup into a 60-game starter.

I don't think AV will make this same mistake with Schneider, mostly because Luongo will continue to play 50-60 games while Schneider is still developing.

This is a big mistake a lot of fans don't understand on these boards. Rookies, especially goalies, need a long time to culture. Sure they'll go on streaks of games where they look amazing, but 20 games scattered across an 82-game schedule is very different to playing 60 games in large chunks. Yes Schneider's numbers looked great last season, and they're looking nice again this season, but if he plays more than 6 games in a row just watch his play start to deteriorate.

Fatigue, both mental and physical, is something that is very underestimated, and something that must be monitored especially closely if we want to win the Cup. Boston really got it right last season.
Posted Image

#3 The Wizard of AZ

The Wizard of AZ

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,701 posts
  • Joined: 27-January 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:11 AM

I think the Jonas Hiller/ Giguere thing would be more akin to Vancouver choosing Eddie Lack over Roberto Luongo and placing Schneider(Bryzgalov) on waivers.

Posted Image


#4 SCORGASMS v4

SCORGASMS v4

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 186 posts
  • Joined: 03-September 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:15 AM

Anaheim really didn't develop Hiller very well. I mean, he's a great goalie, but only in inconsistent flashes. Sure some of it is due to his concussion, but he's never been a consistent goalie in this league because he wasn't transitioned nicely from a 20-game backup into a 60-game starter.

I don't think AV will make this same mistake with Schneider, mostly because Luongo will continue to play 50-60 games while Schneider is still developing.

This is a big mistake a lot of fans don't understand on these boards. Rookies, especially goalies, need a long time to culture. Sure they'll go on streaks of games where they look amazing, but 20 games scattered across an 82-game schedule is very different to playing 60 games in large chunks. Yes Schneider's numbers looked great last season, and they're looking nice again this season, but if he plays more than 6 games in a row just watch his play start to deteriorate.

Fatigue, both mental and physical, is something that is very underestimated, and something that must be monitored especially closely if we want to win the Cup. Boston really got it right last season.


Schneids was already a starter in the AHL for a few years so he's used to playing alot of games, and staying consistent while doing so... luongo is no Giguere there, who has become would be a backup on pretty much every NHL team... Schneider hasn't been pushed to play in the NHL yet in his career until now and he'll be 26 before they season is over..

#5 Forsy

Forsy

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,113 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:20 AM

Biggest difference is that Luongo didn't win the cup, but won the gold medal, while Giguere won the cup.

#6 WeatherWise

WeatherWise

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: 20-September 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:22 AM

Biggest difference is that Luongo didn't win the cup, but won the gold medal, while Giguere won the cup.


That is not a very big difference in the greater picture, though. Both have achieved something, though eventually past merits did not justify Giguere remaining in Anaheim. Jean-Sebastien Giguere was a superstar and one of the league's best goaltenders before Jonas Hiller arrived. None of it mattered when Hiller challenged him for the position, though.
The greatest segue into a weather segment.

#7 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,013 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:47 AM

Schneider played 60 games just 2 years ago in the AHL, a pro league against professionals. He was the leagues best goalie, even with a workhorse workload. And he also took them on a long play-off run the year before. He displayed the ability to handle the workload, it was just an issue "was his talent sufficient" against NHL shots & pressure.

Last year he played 25 games, lost only FOUR and had a top 5 in the NHL save %. Same sort of dominance he displayed in the AHL.

So he has established the talent and durability; he's also not a buck, wet behind the ears 18 year old being thrown in randomly because there is nothing better. He's earning his shot.

Look at this objectively and you'll realize we have a second stud on our hands... Dont undervalue him like you undervalued CoHo earlier in the year?



Anaheim really didn't develop Hiller very well. I mean, he's a great goalie, but only in inconsistent flashes. Sure some of it is due to his concussion, but he's never been a consistent goalie in this league because he wasn't transitioned nicely from a 20-game backup into a 60-game starter.

I don't think AV will make this same mistake with Schneider, mostly because Luongo will continue to play 50-60 games while Schneider is still developing.

This is a big mistake a lot of fans don't understand on these boards. Rookies, especially goalies, need a long time to culture. Sure they'll go on streaks of games where they look amazing, but 20 games scattered across an 82-game schedule is very different to playing 60 games in large chunks. Yes Schneider's numbers looked great last season, and they're looking nice again this season, but if he plays more than 6 games in a row just watch his play start to deteriorate.

Fatigue, both mental and physical, is something that is very underestimated, and something that must be monitored especially closely if we want to win the Cup. Boston really got it right last season.





#8 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,013 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:02 AM

Giguere was the clear star of the play offs when Anaheim went on its first big play-off run.

Lou was effective and did not loose the Olympics. But he was not the catalyst.

I give Lou more credit for his year in year out effectiveness; Giggy is not even close to a match to Lou over an 8 or 9 year period. Lou wins hands down. Lou just has to pull that star performance out of his ass when it counts.

That is not a very big difference in the greater picture, though. Both have achieved something, though eventually past merits did not justify Giguere remaining in Anaheim. Jean-Sebastien Giguere was a superstar and one of the league's best goaltenders before Jonas Hiller arrived. None of it mattered when Hiller challenged him for the position, though.





#9 JOutlaw

JOutlaw

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Joined: 31-March 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:05 AM

Right now Schneider is on a great hot streak. Let's just ride that till it's over. We're only a little over a quarter of the way through the season with plenty more games to play and lots more opportunities for both these goalies to either prove their dominance, or fail and falter.

I'm a big fan of Schneider, and hope that he stays with the Canucks for a long time, but that's not to say that I want to lose Luongo either. At the end of the day, one of these guys will probably have to leave for another team at the end of the year as if Schneider keeps playing this way, then he's earned a starting spot. After we've played our 82 games and our (hopefully) deep and successful playoff run, we can start debating who to get rid of and who to keep. For now let's just enjoy the fact that we have 2 great goalies!

_______________________________
We Are All Canucks (except for Chicago)

#10 Industrious1

Industrious1

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,040 posts
  • Joined: 12-May 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:32 AM

All I am worried about right now, is this season. If Vancouver has access to two netminders who can win on any given night, so much the better.

This goalie controversy can be solved in the off-season and just serves as a distraction to both the club and the players themselves at the moment (although with how Schneider is playing that seems inevitable).

#11 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,275 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:20 AM

There are a lot of things to consider...

#1) Will Schneider maintain this play year-in, year-out? Or could he be the type that is exposed once the book is out on him? Steve Mason, Andrew Raycroft, and Jim Carey all looked fantastic in their first 50 games too.

#2) Will Luongo maintain his past play, not only this year, but well into his thirties? Or have recurring injuries and mental fragility started to take their toll? People have pointed to guys like Brodeur and Hasek, who have played well into their late thirties and forties. However, it is much more likely that a goalie starts declining earlier. It would be a shame to hang on to a declining, once-dominant goalie while letting a younger goalie on the verge of his dominance go.


The one saving grace in this situation is that we should be able to get a far better trade return for either than our goalies than Anaheim got for Giguere.

PBF020-Skub.gif


#12 gordfish

gordfish

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 511 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 06

Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:31 AM

Many fans have been comparing our team's current goaltending situation to Boston's Rask-Thomas combination. While it is fair to remain optimistic, there have been many situations in the past in which established high-priced former "superstar" goaltenders have been ousted from their starting position by rising, younger goalies. The clearest, most recent and most similar example would be what happened just two seasons ago in Anaheim.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere had just won the Stanley Cup in 2007. In 2003 he was the Conn Smythe winner on the losing side of the Stanley Cup Finals. He was, by far, the best goaltender in franchise history and looked as though he would remain in Anaheim for the remainder of his career. He was on the third year of a four-year contract making $6 million per year. Jonas Hiller, on the other hand, had only played one year in the NHL as of 2008. Clearly, it seemed as though Hiller would be traded as nobody thought he would outperform Giguere in goal.

In Hiller's first year, he played 23 games while Giguere played 58. In his second season, 2008-09, Hiller played well. Giguere, on the other hand, struggled to stay at Hiller's pace. By season's end, they had both played 46 games each and it was clear who the better goaltender was, regardless of who was being paid $6 million. As a result, Hiller started the playoffs but the team was eliminated in the second round.

This scenario sounds very similar to the Thomas-Rask situation. The starting goaltender who had played spectacular the previous year, Thomas in Boston's case and Giguere in Anaheim's case, suddenly found himself as the backup for a few months and into the postseason. The difference occurred the very next season (2009-10 for Anaheim, 2010-11 for Boston).

While Tim Thomas regained his form and Tuuka Rask struggled in Boston the year after Thomas had initially lost his job, it was a very different situation in Anaheim. The 2009-10 season began with Hiller continuing his pace from his breakout season. Giguere had the opportunity to reclaim the starting job as Randy Carlyle was giving them both equal time to compete for it. Unfortunately, Giguere suffered a groin injury early in the season that kept him out of the lineup indefinitely. As a result, Hiller played a number of consecutive games and proved himself to be one of the most reliable players almost every single night, keeping nearly every score close. When Giguere returned, he could not outplay Hiller for the starting position.

Soon after, on January 31, 2010, the Ducks traded away their former Conn Smythe winner and Stanley Cup champion goaltender to Toronto for Vesa Toskala and Jason Blake.

Giguere was once coveted as one of the league's top goaltenders, known for being mentored by Francois Allaire in his junior days and at the professional level. Even though he was making $6 million, when both he and Hiller were allowed to compete, it was evident who the better goaltender was. Some people will try to compare our current goaltending situation as akin to Boston's goaltending situation. Unfortunately, these hopes and comparisons are reliant on Roberto outperforming Cory when he returns. If that does not happen, this easily becomes the aforementioned Hiller-Giguere situation.

What makes this year unique is that Schneider becomes a RFA at the end of this year and might not remain with this team beyond this season. In order to make the correct decision, General Manager Mike Gillis and team management will be pressured to make a decision as soon as possible. Unlike either the Boston or Anaheim situations, one of the goaltenders might be gone if we continue the status quo into the next season and show no urgency to make a decision soon. One of the goaltenders must be moved -- that is a fact that can not be denied. Both goaltenders are National Hockey League starters and one must be chosen over the other; it would be unfair to one of the goaltenders to have to relegate him to backup status, and would result in at least $8 million of our cap space being used on goaltending. For the team's sake and the goaltender's sake, one must be chosen and the other must be moved.

Some will say there is no controversy, and quote the very-much politically correct words of Alain Vigneault, Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo. Like nearly every single player interview in sports, however, the proper things are always said no matter what the situation may be. Cliches are used, supportive comments are always made about teammates, and no real answers are ever given. Additionally, everybody wants to give the impression they are humble and virtuous. An analogy that can be made is when your partner asks you how she looks in her new clothing -- you are almost always going to say the right things and keep the situation controlled, even if you may have another opinion of it. To keep people in check, no matter what the situation may be, the proper things are going to be said. There may be a goaltending controversy, but nobody will ever find out what the players are actually thinking to themselves because they want their outward appearance to be calm and supportive of each other. Those quotes provide no evidence regarding a player's position on the situation; they are merely to quell those who have no business knowing what is happening.

There are high hopes for Cory Schneider. We all want to cheer for him to succeed and perform well. He is a goaltender with such a bright future, and he has proven he can be our best player on any given night. If he plays well, his trade value will increase monumentally. If he performs too well, though, we must ask ourselves whether he actually makes this team better in the goaltending department, especially at a lower price than what our other goaltender is being paid. If this is the case, we will have ourselves a real controversy and a difficult decision to make. It is a decision that has been made before with other goaltending pairs, though.

Cory's RFA status has essentially shortened both the Boston and Anaheim situations from a two-year span to a matter of months. If Luongo can not outplay Schneider when he returns, and it is clear that Cory is our better goaltender at the end of this year, we must realize that it may be more beneficial to keep Schneider and move Roberto. It is entirely on Roberto's shoulders whether he stays or leaves -- all he needs to do is outperform Schneider. That will determine if he stays in Vancouver. If not, he will face the same fate as Jean-Sebastien Giguere.


Let's face it, whether or not the situation parallels Boston or Anaheim will depend on what Corey Schneider will be asking for when he becomes RFA in the offseason. If he asks for north of 3 million per, it's highly unlikely the Canucks will be able to keep both goaltenders.

Personaly, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade the guy you drafted in the first round and have spent so much time and money developing, especially when that player's number one attribute has always been his ability to respond to pressure.

The dollars left on Luongo's contract get significantly smaller after this season, even though the cap hit stays the same, making it a liitle easier to find a team willing to take it on.

But the other factor is just what other teams might offer for Corey Schneider. If, for instance, the Columbus Blue Jackets end up with the first overall pick in the draft next June and they approach Gillis with an offer that includes that pick, can he afford to say no?

#13 JustJokinen!

JustJokinen!

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,099 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:35 AM

Great thread Weatherwise, really good read.

#14 GTVic

GTVic

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 278 posts
  • Joined: 06-May 05

Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:55 AM

Unlike the reply above, I'm not going to quote the entire post since I think most people can scroll/read on their own.

IMO Giguerre was a goalie who positioned himself well and compensated for everything else with oversized pads. Once he was forced to ditch the pads he became an average goalie at best. So I don't compare him with Luongo at all, cup or not...

#15 XX_canucks33_XX

XX_canucks33_XX

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:03 AM

Luo has a longer contract than Gig when Anaheim had this situation. Luo is 7 years older than Schneid, if things boiled down to just having 1 goalie..... IMO, i would rather have Schneid.

#16 Langdon Algur

Langdon Algur

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,954 posts
  • Joined: 05-July 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:04 AM

I think the Price/Halak comparison might be the most fitting given Schneiders RFA status

Montreal had to choose between their established highly ranked but struggling starter (Price) vs. the former backup who proved he's ready to be a starter and can carry a team to success (Halak). At the time most fans wanted to keep Halak and trade Price, but the Habs GM went the other way around and I think it's safe to say now he made the right choice.

Play Clash on Clans on your phone? Join the CDC Clan "happycanuck".


"What is the good of having a nice house without a decent planet to put it on?" ~ Henry David Thoreau

CDC's 2014 draft preferences vs. Canucks actual picks
http://forum.canucks...g-2014-edition/


#17 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,275 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:12 AM

I think the Price/Halak comparison might be the most fitting given Schneiders RFA status

Montreal had to choose between their established highly ranked but struggling starter (Price) vs. the former backup who proved he's ready to be a starter and can carry a team to success (Halak). At the time most fans wanted to keep Halak and trade Price, but the Habs GM went the other way around and I think it's safe to say now he made the right choice.

They most certainly did make the right choice...and man, what an uproar over it at the time!

In that particular situation, Habs management went with who they (coaching and scouts) thought would be the better long-term goalie, fan reaction be damned. This will likely be similar, as Gillis is not going to keep Schneider over Lu just because the fans want that, nor will he move Schneider if he has reason to believe he will be a better goalie for the franchise for the next 5 years, simply to appease Lu. He will make an educated decision as to what is best for the team, and do it.

PBF020-Skub.gif


#18 canuckschick1234

canuckschick1234

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,910 posts
  • Joined: 05-August 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:19 AM

You make a good point. Luongo will get the chance to win his starting job back, and if he doesn't, things will get interesting.
2011-2012 LEAGUE STANDINGS - Last updated: March 19, 2:18 PM

Posted Image

#19 The Brahma Bull

The Brahma Bull

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,224 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 08

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:53 AM

All I take from this is that Giguere lost in the Finals and only won the Stanley Cup a few years later.

If Luongo is playing decently, keep him. Posted Image Posted Image


#20 RyanKeslord17

RyanKeslord17

    Canucks First-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,895 posts
  • Joined: 22-January 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:00 AM

If Lu is even only slightly better why keep him? We can have Schneider playing as well or only slightly worse but with a much less cap hit. And we can add a good dman with the extra money. This is IF Lu cant pull himself together, but Im optimistic he can.
Posted Image

#21 ajhockey

ajhockey

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:02 AM

I see it most like the Price/Halak Situation. With Price being Lu and Halak being Schneids.

14ndb35.jpg
Credit to -Vintage Canuck- for the awesome sig!

"Gino, Gino, Gino, Gino!"
Rest In Peace, Rypien, Demitra, and Bourdon


#22 VanCityScout

VanCityScout

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,684 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 08

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

I see it most like the Price/Halak Situation. With Price being Lu and Halak being Schneids.

I see it as a 4 game winning streak!!










Yeah!!

Go Canucks Go!!

#23 WindChaser

WindChaser

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Joined: 18-October 09

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:14 PM

If you wanna compare us to Anaheim, look at where they are now, 2-3 years after giving up on Giguere and replacing him with their proven back up... Do we really wanna go there??

#24 jonnycanuck46

jonnycanuck46

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:21 PM

I think we'd live to regret trading Schneider if we do. Lou has a huge cap hit, and if it CAN be moved, I'd move it for even a single 1st round pick. Gillis would then resign Schneids to roughly a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil per...Plus Cory is WAY younger (25) and opposed to Lou (31). Cory's composure throughout the whole playoffs last year, and these games this year is also something Lou can NEVER develop. He's just naturally nervous in important games- that's understandable, but Schneider has that freakish way of controlling himself through thick and thin.
Posted Image

Ephesians 2:7-9

"That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

#25 WindChaser

WindChaser

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Joined: 18-October 09

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:30 PM

I think we'd live to regret trading Schneider if we do. Lou has a huge cap hit, and if it CAN be moved, I'd move it for even a single 1st round pick. Gillis would then resign Schneids to roughly a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil per...Plus Cory is WAY younger (25) and opposed to Lou (31). Cory's composure throughout the whole playoffs last year, and these games this year is also something Lou can NEVER develop. He's just naturally nervous in important games- that's understandable, but Schneider has that freakish way of controlling himself through thick and thin.


Didn't Luongo win the gold medal in Vancouver just like a year ago??
Didn't Luongo make that game saviing save on Sharp in game 7 OT last year against Hawks?
Didnt Luongo make 50+ saves in his career playoff game and played 4OTs before winning while Schneider had leg cramps due to nervousness in his first career playoff game last year?

Seriously so many Vancouver fans are like a bunch of spoiled teenage girls, the minute they see something seemingly better, they are all over it and can see nothing but negatives out of the older thing no matter what that older thing has done for them or how much more they can still give

#26 jonnycanuck46

jonnycanuck46

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:52 PM

Didn't Luongo win the gold medal in Vancouver just like a year ago??
Didn't Luongo make that game saviing save on Sharp in game 7 OT last year against Hawks?
Didnt Luongo make 50+ saves in his career playoff game and played 4OTs before winning while Schneider had leg cramps due to nervousness in his first career playoff game last year?

Seriously so many Vancouver fans are like a bunch of spoiled teenage girls, the minute they see something seemingly better, they are all over it and can see nothing but negatives out of the older thing no matter what that older thing has done for them or how much more they can still give


The fact of the matter is, Schneids has proven over the past few years he is better and more consistent that Luongo. If you really read into it, Lou has not been as good and Schneider over the past two seasons, and When Cory performed in the playoffs last season IN THE FINALS, and was just THROWN as a rookie into the Stanley Cup Finals against the best goalie in the world, and he performed as well as he did, that should send of signals, especially since Luongo let in 12 in two games, and similar against Chicago in the first round.
Posted Image

Ephesians 2:7-9

"That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

#27 Langdon Algur

Langdon Algur

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,954 posts
  • Joined: 05-July 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:01 PM

I see it most like the Price/Halak Situation. With Price being Lu and Halak being Schneids.

That's what I said!!

Play Clash on Clans on your phone? Join the CDC Clan "happycanuck".


"What is the good of having a nice house without a decent planet to put it on?" ~ Henry David Thoreau

CDC's 2014 draft preferences vs. Canucks actual picks
http://forum.canucks...g-2014-edition/


#28 Guest_Dasein_*

Guest_Dasein_*
  • Guests
  • Joined: --

Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:16 PM

Cory's RFA status has essentially shortened both the Boston and Anaheim situations from a two-year span to a matter of months. If Luongo can not outplay Schneider when he returns, and it is clear that Cory is our better goaltender at the end of this year, we must realize that it may be more beneficial to keep Schneider and move Roberto. It is entirely on Roberto's shoulders whether he stays or leaves -- all he needs to do is outperform Schneider. That will determine if he stays in Vancouver. If not, he will face the same fate as Jean-Sebastien Giguere.

This analogy is completely incorrect. You chose to neglect a factor which proves you entirely wrong: Ilya Bryzgalov.

Anaheim Ducks goaltending situation was as followed: They had an aging Vezina-calibre starter in Giguere, and a highly touted backup goaltender in Bryzgalov. Bryzgalov wanted to become a starter, but the Ducks had Giguere, who was still in his prime. However, the Ducks just so happened to have a third-string goaltender named Jonas Hiller. That's right. Third string--NOT heir apparent to Giguere's throne--that was Bryzgalov. Third string. Hence, Anaheim chose to walk away from Bryzgalov and keep Giguere and have Hiller come up and back Giguere up.

Now back to the Canucks. Luongo is a Vezina-calibre starter and he is still in his prime. Schneider is a highly touted backup goaltender. The Canucks just so happened to have one of the best third-string goaltenders in Eddie Lack. It's not hard to figure out what will happen if we follow the Anaheim Duck analogy as you did. That's right. If we actually follow the Anaheim Ducks strategy as you say we will, we will actually be getting rid of Schneider, not Luongo.

Jonas Hiller is the Canuck equivalent of Eddie Lack, NOT Cory Schneider. That's why you are wrong.

#29 Forsy

Forsy

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,113 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:35 PM

That is not a very big difference in the greater picture, though. Both have achieved something, though eventually past merits did not justify Giguere remaining in Anaheim. Jean-Sebastien Giguere was a superstar and one of the league's best goaltenders before Jonas Hiller arrived. None of it mattered when Hiller challenged him for the position, though.

I'm fairly certain we're all in agreement the two tandems parallel each other. However, the biggest difference in the situations is that one goalie won the cup, and then was terrible after, while the other goalie hasn't won a cup, and is sucking - but not too terrible. In other words, the cup wins are a smoke screen for the reality that Giguere was terrible, while Luongo is actually playing ok - another reason to keep Luongo for the time being (in case Schneider falters). Whereas with Giguere, it was a clear trade away move, since even if Hillier faltered, Giguere would still be just as bad, if not worse.

#30 HockeyHobo73

HockeyHobo73

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,527 posts
  • Joined: 25-July 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

There are big differences. 1st, we can afford to keep both goalies, and have the cap space to do so. 2nd, Luongo and Schneider >>> Hiller and Giguere. 3rd, Gillis is the magician man who makes things happen.




Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.