Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * - - 11 votes

Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


  • Please log in to reply
663 replies to this topic

#1 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:37 PM

*
POPULAR

I am going to put myself out there and make the thread.

Raymond? Do we really want him?


Pros: Fast Skater, Defensively Reliable, Plays PK

Cons: Poor Vision, Doesn't use his team mates, Afraid to go to the net, Weak along the boards, Physically Weak.


Ever since the Canucks upgraded 2nd line wing from Raymond to Booth, I finally see a player that I had hoped Raymond would eventually become. Someone who will utilize his speed to go around the defencemen on the outside and still have the balls to cut hard to the net.

After the acquisition of Booth, we saw a slight improvement in Raymond's play as he was finally going into the tough areas. I was personally hoping that the healthy competition had finally lit a spark under Raymond and he was ready to change his style of play which would be more beneficial to the team.

After many months, I see Raymond's style of play will never change. It is what it is.

Raymond will

1) Go around the defencemen on the outside, circle BEHIND the net and then
a) Pass to the near side d-man
Posted Image Make an ill-advised cross ice pass to the other d-man which will get tipped or intercepted. (The redeeming fact of this error is that Raymond has already circled the net and is skating back up towards the blueline so he has had a head start on the back-check)

2) Raymond will also ALWAYS shoot on a 2-1. The goalie might as well not even worry about the 2nd forward and just play Raymond. Goalie should also make sure he's standing in the middle of the net because the puck is going to hit him in the crest like a bulls-eye

What Mason needs to understand is,

He would be making a million more per season if he

1) Went around the d-man on the outside and then CUT to the net which would lead to drawing a hooking penalty or a goal by him OR creating a rebound chance for Hansen or Coho.
This is what the 2nd line is now doing to create goals with Kes, Higgins and Booth. If Raymond does this, his line will be more productive and he will actually be using his speed in a productive manner.


Now here's the real question. At a modest 2.55M and going into RFA this summer we know exactly what Raymond brings to this team. Is Raymond worth keeping as a 3rd liner for the playoffs on a Cup Contending team or, is someone in the system already more than capable of filling his role and is Raymond expendable in order to acquire additional help or upgrades in other positions?

Edited by CanucksJay, 08 May 2013 - 12:47 PM.

  • 18

#2 Shift-4

Shift-4

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,452 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 06

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:37 PM

*
POPULAR

Originality...........you really need it
  • 31
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#3 RyanKeslord17

RyanKeslord17

    Canucks First-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,895 posts
  • Joined: 22-January 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:41 PM

It's truly amazing how much fan attention one player can get..
  • 2
Posted Image

#4 R.Kesler #17

R.Kesler #17

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 09

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:41 PM

use your own words next time
  • 1

#5 Hedgehog Hodgson

Hedgehog Hodgson

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • Joined: 25-September 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:41 PM

*
POPULAR

That is your first post and it better be your damn last post.
  • 17

Posted Image


#6 CanuckRow

CanuckRow

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,094 posts
  • Joined: 13-February 07

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:42 PM

Everyone knows Raymond's problems. There's a reason his name has been coming up so often for trade rumours.
  • 0

15yezck.jpg

 

 @Chel24Seven


#7 ultimike

ultimike

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 140 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

yes

and one reason

speed
  • 0

#8 Alex Edler 23

Alex Edler 23

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined: 02-December 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Words too small, didn't read.
  • 3
Sig too big.

#9 Everybody Hates Raymond

Everybody Hates Raymond

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,607 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

Give Raymond more time. He has a useful set of skills and playing with a center like Cody Hodgson, who is still developing, can be beneficial for him as well. I agree that he is underperforming, but constant pressure from the fans isn't going to make it any better.
  • 3

#10 RK17Forever

RK17Forever

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:55 PM

First post. No one reads first posters who start a thread.

CanucksJay? Do We Really Want Him?

Edited by RK17Forever, 02 February 2012 - 04:57 PM.

  • 1

#11 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,108 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:55 PM

It would be awesome if Raymond's career goes on the same trajectory that Burrows' did when his thread was created.
  • 4
Posted Image

#12 Kesheniel

Kesheniel

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:55 PM

You couldn't use different words? At all? Seriously? Do us all a favor and don't post anymore.
  • 0

#13 Ugli Fruit

Ugli Fruit

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,867 posts
  • Joined: 23-June 09

Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:56 PM

You're being overly critical and it suggests that you're biased against him.
  • 0

Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


#14 lexluthor

lexluthor

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:02 PM

With his speed, he should be drawing a lot of penalties from the opposition. But this never happens.
  • 0

#15 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:14 PM

With his speed, he should be drawing a lot of penalties from the opposition. But this never happens.


He doesn't draw penalties because he doesn't go hard to the net. Why would anyone hook him if he's just going around the outside and behind the net? That's not a threat so generally, d-man just follow him and guide him to the end boards without much worry about giving up a scoring chance
  • 1

#16 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:16 PM

Also

You're being overly critical and it suggests that you're biased against him.


Actually I pointed out that he is a fast skater and is reliable defensively.

I think my assessment was pretty accurate. Is there something I missed?
  • 0

#17 bigshooter

bigshooter

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 46 posts
  • Joined: 08-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:18 PM

Give Raymond more time. He has a useful set of skills and playing with a center like Cody Hodgson, who is still developing, can be beneficial for him as well. I agree that he is underperforming, but constant pressure from the fans isn't going to make it any better.



then he shouldnt have a problem playing in a low market team haha or why does he play pro sports if fans effect him so much u guys make so many excuses about his bad play but its been happening before he got hurt. he had 2-3 goals the whole playoff run hes already been replaced on kes line so there really isnt any need to have a 2.5 million dollar player that does not produce and is very inconsistant
  • 0

#18 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

You couldn't use different words? At all? Seriously? Do us all a favor and don't post anymore.


Lol, my choice of words is getting everyone's panties in a twist. I've never seen so many people fly off the handle because of a title of a thread.

How about read the actual post and see if there's anything you disagree with besides the title.

Besides the "this has already been discussed", are there any of you that actually LIKE the way Raymond plays?

I'm amused and curious now.
  • 0

#19 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:21 PM

*
POPULAR

First post. No one reads first posters who start a thread.

CanucksJay? Do We Really Want Him?


Sorry, your 38th post really blew mine out of the water
  • 11

#20 Bob Singh

Bob Singh

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,016 posts
  • Joined: 26-November 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

:picard:





I've seen a lot of threads listing his pros and cons already.

Edited by Bob Singh, 02 February 2012 - 05:29 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image
Credit for "Great Save Luongo" sig goes to -Vintage Canuck-
Credit for Olympic sig goes to Motzaburger.

#21 The Brahma Bull

The Brahma Bull

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,224 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 08

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

Of course Canucks fans were frustrated with him when he was on the 2nd line last year, but now we have Booth who is doing a damn good job on the 2nd line. Raymond is a pretty reliable 3rd liner. Sure, he may not drive to the middle as much as he did in those first few games back, but his speed still causes fits for other teams. Seriously, things could be worse. Can you imagine if we had Scott Gomez?

I don't know how much the Canucks can upgrade this team without running into cap problems. Last year's team got to game 7 of the SCF and I think we are better this year.

Edited by The Brahma Bull, 02 February 2012 - 05:29 PM.

  • 0


#22 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

It would be awesome if Raymond's career goes on the same trajectory that Burrows' did when his thread was created.


As a Canucks fan, I hope he makes me eat my words. Problem is, I don't see that happening. Guy is 26 years old and his career potential 50 pts on a line with GREAT linemates or 30 pts on a line with mediocre line mates.

Also its not just about points. It's style of play and quite frankly, his style of play is not built for the playoffs.

Guys like Higgins Kesler, Burrows, Booth fight and win the puck battles and will the puck on their stick.
Raymond is a perimeter player who will not be an impact player when it matters
  • 0

#23 CanucksJay

CanucksJay

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

Of course Canucks fans were frustrated with him when he was on the 2nd line last year, but now we have Booth who is doing a damn good job on the 2nd line. Raymond is a pretty reliable 3rd liner. Sure, he may not drive to the middle as much as he did in those first few games back, but his speed still causes fits for other teams. Seriously, things could be worse. Can you imagine if we had Scott Gomez?


That was my question. Are we simply just happy keeping Raymond at a cap hit of about 2.5m and be content that he is a 3rd line player that's of the same ilk as a player like Matt Lombardi? (Speed to burn, poor hands poor vision)
  • 0

#24 Pablo

Pablo

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 09

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:36 PM

Don't you mean " do we really NEED him?"
  • 0

#25 Dogbyte

Dogbyte

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,257 posts
  • Joined: 31-March 07

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:36 PM

As a third liner player he is excellent defensively in the playoffs. We have no one right now in our system even close to being as capable and ready to play. Not every single player lights it up in the playoffs either.

I mean you could be critical of Higgins too and say he's way slower than Raymond, doesn't have great puck handling and is not overly strong on the backcheck. Should we get rid of him too?

You forgot to mention that he also has chemistry with Kesler. They look great together when they are both on their game. Flying all over the ice. So, he can step to that line and play too which is a bonus, he already knows the players and the system.

Lastly this is all kind of regurgitated crap, like Luongo always bellflops. You can't always cookie cutter everything. Raymond doesn't do your little play scenario every time either like others have tried to insinuate over the last couple years.

Oh yeah, he was probably our best forechecker in the playoffs last year as well.

Edited by Dogbyte, 02 February 2012 - 05:39 PM.

  • 3

Canuckslogo160x160.jpg


#26 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,822 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:40 PM

I like how he plays. I like guys who back check, particularly when they are wingers. In the new NHL where two line passes are permitted and the "stretch pass" is so common, his speed and defensive responsibility are under-rated - and those things are constants - scoring is not - not even for the best of players.

Also I keep hearing this thing - his style of play doesn't suit the playoffs... By that logic Zetterburg, Datsyiuk, and Lidstrom don't "suit the playoffs" - they are skill and finesse guys... who have SC rings. As a matter of fact - if you look at Lidstrom, he never hits anyone (a few years back he had 1 body check in the entire playoffs), he doesn't block shots, he has never had a single fight, and he doesn't cheap shot anyone. Nevertheless, he is on a short list of the all time best defensemen...and not bad in the playoffs either.

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2012 - 05:49 PM.

  • 0

#27 Guest_Lelongooo_*

Guest_Lelongooo_*
  • Guests
  • Joined: --

Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:01 PM

Don't know why everyone's going so crazy. Everyone's got a different opinion on Raymond, it's not the first time that he's been critisized. I personally think that Raymond's a good player however I agree that he's not exactly the most physically tough individual. Oh and welcome to CDC OP lol.
  • 0

#28 neonlyte

neonlyte

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Joined: 11-January 12

Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

Pro: He's already wearing a Canucks uniform, so we don't need to trade for him
Con: He's already wearing a Canucks uniform, anything else you could list about him is likely a con
  • 0

#29 thehamburglar

thehamburglar

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,282 posts
  • Joined: 21-April 10

Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

Yes we do. Raymond's done well with Hodgson, Hansen works well with Hodgson.

Hodgson hasn't done with all himself.
  • 1
Posted Image

#30 TheEhrhoffEffect

TheEhrhoffEffect

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,148 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 06

Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

Nope
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.