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CanucksJay

Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?

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As far as cutting to the net, he takes what he's given. He doesn't have the size to bull through a big defenseman. Which is to say he needs to be a little ahead of him to cut to the net. If he isn't he uses his speed to go around the net or puts on the brakes. He's not a power forward so don't expect him to play like one.

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Look. If we trade him, I need a new signature. So for that reason alone. We keep him. Cool?

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I can use capitals too....BLOW ME.

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I can use capitals too....BLOW ME.

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Raymond will be probally be resigned after this season for around the same price as his last contract.

Agreed with the OP perhaps this off season he can bulk and drive to the net next season to fight his way back to a second line job. Hopefully this summer he can fuly train in the off season and not be recovering from a back injury which set his off season training last year. If that doesn't work out he can always be traded in the future.

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I didn't get to watch last night's game, (except for part of the shootout) but from what I gather seeing highlights, etc., we can call this one an easy win for Booth, right? ;)

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I believe Raymond is a capable second line winger. Considering the league average for a second line winger last year was 45 points if Raymond can get 40 on the third line with minimal PP time it would qualify him as a second line winger.

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I didn't get to watch last night's game, (except for part of the shootout) but from what I gather seeing highlights, etc., we can call this one an easy win for Booth, right? ;)

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Wasn't it after the clutch post that Burrows became a solid thirty goal scorer and is now far more than just a poop disturber. Maybe CanucksJay is going for the same result with Raymond.

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Wasn't it after the clutch post that Burrows became a solid thirty goal scorer and is now far more than just a poop disturber. Maybe CanucksJay is going for the same result with Raymond.

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Wasn't it after the clutch post that Burrows became a solid thirty goal scorer and is now far more than just a poop disturber. Maybe CanucksJay is going for the same result with Raymond.

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The OP is just re-bleating media crap. On 1040, that idiot Botchford actually claimed that Booth was brought in to replace Raymond. Booth replaced the person he was traded for. Raymond was still on LTIR when the Booth deal went down, and whether Raymond could return and still play at a high level was still in question.

When Bieksa returned mid-season from a serious injury it took him a long while to get back to normal. He said that he felt a step behind in conditioning and reactions. I still think Raymond can step up his game and it would be a mistake to trade him, unless the return is high. I still want him on our team. I also believe that Hansen will be just fine and will step it up in the Playoffs. The kneejerk reaction is to look at right now.

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The OP is just re-bleating media crap. On 1040, that idiot Botchford actually claimed that Booth was brought in to replace Raymond. Booth replaced the person he was traded for. Raymond was still on LTIR when the Booth deal went down, and whether Raymond could return and still play at a high level was still in question.

When Bieksa returned mid-season from a serious injury it took him a long while to get back to normal. He said that he felt a step behind in conditioning and reactions. I still think Raymond can step up his game and it would be a mistake to trade him, unless the return is high. I still want him on our team. I also believe that Hansen will be just fine and will step it up in the Playoffs. The kneejerk reaction is to look at right now.

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1 - The point is, we dont WANT a league average 2nd liner. We want 2nd liners that could potentially be 1st liners and stars on other teams (Kesler). That's what cup winning teams have. If you are looking at the average of the league, you are also counting the basement teams that have players on the 2nd line that would be fighting for 3rd line spots on our team.

2 - As for predictions, when we are discussing what is best for the team (trade or keep Raymond) you need to think about the overall picture of Mason Raymond's potential and whether he will achieve his potential otherwise you are talking about trading or keeping a player without knowing what kind of production you are potentially giving up.

3 - You know what, I don't think we are too far off in our opinions. We both know the value Raymond brings to the team. Solid 2-way game that chips in on offence every now and then. We both understand if an upgrade can be made, the team should do it. I think the main difference is, you'd be ok with Raymond on the 2nd line where as I feel like if we want to win the cup and we are thinking of him as a 2nd liner, we need a better player than him. We need a player that is capable of putting up 70 pts while playing with Booth and Kesler (which isn't that far fetched. Similar to B MO with Bert and Nazzy). If Raymond is going 3rd line, I'd be ok if he signs a long term extension at his current cap hit but if initial negotiations look like it might cost a lot more as you say 3.5-4.5m, I think we can do without Raymond and we should trade him while his value is relatively high as his return packaged with a another prospect or pick COULD potentially get us a legitimate top 6 player OR a top 4 d-man Personally Raymond is the odd man out because his return would be far greater than Hansen while I feel like they both bring a similar game (Hansen more physical, Raymond more scoring touch). Hansen's cap hit is lower and his return would be far less.

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hopefully this wall all be put to rest by his playoff performance. assuming he isnt traded.

the debate is well past its date.

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hopefully this wall all be put to rest by his playoff performance. assuming he isnt traded.

the debate is well past its date.

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Raymond isn't an above-average 2nd liner, who can move up to the 1st line. He's an above-average 3rd liner who can move up to the 2nd. Championship teams need those guys too.

I'm definitely in the 'trade Raymond' camp, if doing so can land us a solid power-fwd or shutdown D. Of all our top-9 forwards, I see him as the least essential. But if there isn't the right deal there, I have no problem keeping him in his current role. We got pretty far last year with him on the roster.

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Raymond isn't an above-average 2nd liner, who can move up to the 1st line. He's an above-average 3rd liner who can move up to the 2nd. Championship teams need those guys too.

I'm definitely in the 'trade Raymond' camp, if doing so can land us a solid power-fwd or shutdown D. Of all our top-9 forwards, I see him as the least essential. But if there isn't the right deal there, I have no problem keeping him in his current role. We got pretty far last year with him on the roster.

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What worries me about trading Raymond just now is it is obvious that we don't yet know his full capabilities.

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With his speed, he should be drawing a lot of penalties from the opposition. But this never happens.

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