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CanucksJay

Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?

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Did you miss this part...

"without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury."

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the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him

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the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him

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Hey, you brought up stats to prove a point. I rebutted with stats to prove my point.

The injury is no longer an excuse. He's in shape now and as healthy as he'll ever be. His game is right where it was before the injury anyways. I mean, it's not as if he was this elite player before, and we're waiting for him to round back into form. He's pretty much the same player now as he was before. He's here. We know what we have. We have a small, weak, undersized checking player who can seemingly chip in for 15-20 goals. Not a bad thing to have when you look at the stats, but a frustrating thing to watch when you see how many opportunities get squandered due to his selfish play and weakness on the puck.

If he was bigger, stronger, and used his linemates a bit better... Well... He'd be Kesler. THAT is why he's frustrating. He has all the tools, but just lacks the final few pieces to tie it all together.

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I'll say it again, Raymond is nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's simply gone from "Everybody Loves Raymond" to "Everybodies Whipping Boy". One thing I've learned in my years on this board is there always has to be a primary whipping boy and a couple of secondary. And typically the criticism is simplistic and grossly exagerated.

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the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him

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lol my opinion is gonna due harm to his reputation that's funny . I didn't mean he hates him literally. I was just saying that it really seems like he won't pass to Cody. There has been times the last hand full of games where it looks like Cody is open yet Mason doesn't pass.

Lighten up! This a discussion board , no need to get all agro

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no surprise raymond has gotten weaker as the season goes on....

David Booth may spell the end of Mason Raymond on the Canucks, and that's a good thing.

Mason Raymond = speed, a nice shot, slight, perimeter player, non hitter, good PK

David Booth = speed, nice shot, good size, will go to the net, will hit.

But what might not be known, is that Raymond has only had brief spurts with numbers anywhere near 2nd line production, and has a habit of declining as the season progresses and the checking gets tighter.

Raymond, now 26, has had 3 full seasons with the Canucks. His quarterly Points-per-Game avg.

2008-09 - 1st) 0.50 2nd) 0.43 3rd) 0.07 4th) 0.18

2009-10 - 1st) 0.50 2nd) 0.90 3rd) 0.71 4th) 0.45

2010-11 - 1st) 0.60 2nd) 0.90 3rd) 0.48 4th) 0.42

as you can see, he fades every year, and in only 4 of 12 quarters does he produce at 0.60 avg (49 pts in a full season) which has to be at the very low end of a 2nd line scorer, especially on a high scoring team.

His playoffs aren't exactly sparkling either.....

with Booth, Higgins, Hansen and possibly Hodgson ahead of him on A.V.'s winger depth chart for the 2nd and 3rd lines, it might only be injury that gets Raymond back on the second line.

And does anyone think Raymond, with his penchant for staying out of the dirty areas, and not punishing anybody on the ice, combined with lackluster production, really an A.V. type of player?

Good luck with the back Raymond, you've got some work to do when you get healthy.

http://twopigsnucking.blogspot.com/2011/10/beginning-of-end-for-mason-raymond.html....

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You need to find another sport sir and preferably another team. You debase yourself with a comment like that but worse still, you show you don't understand the game.

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People need to appreciate what top 6 production really is. Top 6 is saying your in the top 180 forwards in league scoring.

Last season top 6 cutoff would be 34 points.

So in his 70 games Raymond was 149 in league scoring with 39 (not prorating to 82 games) But 170th in ES TOI/game

He produces at a very respectable rate,

If he played all 82 games and hit 46 points he would be 108 in production in the league, while getting 170th most ES TOI/game.

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People need to appreciate what top 6 production really is. Top 6 is saying your in the top 180 forwards in league scoring.

Last season top 6 cutoff would be 34 points.

So in his 70 games Raymond was 149 in league scoring with 39 (not prorating to 82 games) But 170th in ES TOI/game

He produces at a very respectable rate,

If he played all 82 games and hit 46 points he would be 108 in production in the league, while getting 170th most ES TOI/game.

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oooh nice resume there. Gotta love the reference to your personal life. As if that astounding history of your hockey endeavors actually means anything. (Especially when your assessment on Raymond is poor)

Fact is, Kesler has a better shot than Raymond and took it from the slot where he has a high percentage of scoring.

Raymond on the other hand (has a weaker shot than Kesler) and took a wrister from the half-wall with no screen which happened to bounce off a d-man's butt and in.

You compared the 2 shots like they were similar.

Fact is, you still have no clue.

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Both shots were deflected in by an opposition defender. That's the "similarity" I was referring to. And you're calling me out for exaggerating the similarity between the two goals after you claimed that Raymond spent "half the game on his hands and knees"?

Trust me kid, I've been on this board for over 8 years and I've seen NHL2010K "experts" like you come and go more times than I can count. I'll be here long after you and your 13 posts have to move out of your mom's basement and can't afford the internet anymore.

I know more about this game than you ever will.

BTW: Nice shootout goal yesterday, eh? Didn't fall down once....

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If I was in fact a kid living out of my parent's basement, I would probably take the same approach you took (talking about your 45+ years of hockey experience (like it meant ANYTHING on an internet forum) and try to defend myself by talking about how my standard of living is most likely much higher than yours but this is a hockey forum so I'll keep on point.

You were the one that made the mistake of comparing Raymond's shot to Kesler's shot. If the ONLY thing in common was the fact that they were both deflected, then it was a pretty poor comparison and probably should have been omitted as it does not help in supporting ANY arguments at all.

The only logical argument it could potentially support is the old hockey term of "shoot from anywhere". (Of course, you did not say that and that was not your point so that point is moot)

But going on, if you WERE in fact smart enough to say that, I would counter that that's precisely Mason Raymond's problem. He really does shoot from "anywhere" and when he has good line mates that are in better position and doesn't use them, he becomes the detriment to that line.

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First of all, 45 years of experience does mean something (even on an internet forum). Like it or not, experience translates into knowledge. The only people I've ever heard dispute this are people who lack that experience.Secondly, the only comparison I ever made to the two shots was the fact that they were both deflected in by opposing defensemen. It was you who decided to make more of the comparison than there actually was.Finally, congrats on your "high standard of living", but you still are a kid as far as I'm concerned.

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