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Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


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#301 Callahandy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:20 AM

I assumed that you thought that If you repeat yourself, Gillis would listen. So I say "Good on ya, mate!"
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#302 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

Double post!? More like trigintseptoctuple post! Ha ha!
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#303 youngdad

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:54 AM

If he wasn't fully recovered, he wouldn't have went into absolute beast mode in his first few games back. It was like watching a completely different player, but now he's back to his same old tricks. I don't know whether he was playing off of adrenaline those first few games back or if he somehow reaggravated something (i doubt it). He has no problem flying around the ice. He just has no hockey sense and he gets pushed down too easily.


This is what I dont get. Watch his first few games back and he wasn't just getting lucky. He made good passes, he made great shots, and best/most uncharacteristically he skated in straight lines TOWARD the net. The guy looked great! What happened? WHAT HAPPENED?
Unrelated, but Hansen has also changed. "Nope, don't think I want to be a honey badger anymore" (in a high danish voice)
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#304 Scoobydooby

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:58 AM

i want off the mayray train.. at very leat please av just take him off the second line and put higgins back.. higgins is able to draw more attention away from booth and kess and creates a second line that is much toughet to contain down low.. theyve shown this numerous times when the amex line has been together.

mayray has been decent enough defensively and is efficient at carrying the puck up the ice but he is lacking in many areas and the ice time he gets, all the shootout attempts hes gotten makes me curious what he's done to deserve it on a team where AV is only interested in putting out the best lineup he can.

to be fair not many players really came out tonight vs nashville, so for mason to be this invisible vs toronto and edmonton where we collectively score so many goals, and then tonight where he could have actually ponied up and been a difference maker amongst a team of average performances, it doesnt speak highly for his value on our roster right now in my books.

Edited by Scoobydooby, 22 February 2012 - 01:00 AM.

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#305 KelVintage

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:31 AM

Hell, why not let Ballard play a fourth line role and have Mayray on the third pairing for defense. Oh right, Raymond is not a freaking defenceman.

The argument that he is good defensively is almost a moot point. He is a forward, he is supposed to score goals and get assists. All I've seen him do for the past two months is fall down and have the puck taken away from him. Truly pathetic. I hope he is traded because he is actually bringing the second line and I would argue, the entire team down with his poor play. He has little to no passion in improving his game. I think that's been proven by the last two seasons. Just look at his stats. Facts are facts.
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#306 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:35 AM

The last player, before Raymond, to get this kind of treatment after a devastating injury, was Kevin Bieksa - and let me add that a broken back is just a wee bit worse than a serious skate cut. You are the same bunch that circled Bieksa like a pack of Hyenas, baying to be rid of him, and at how awful he was, now you are trying to take apart Raymond like vultures on what you think is carrion. You disgust me. Your opinions about Bieksa were then about as accurate as your opinions about Raymond are now.
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#307 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

The last player, before Raymond, to get this kind of treatment after a devastating injury, was Kevin Bieksa - and let me add that a broken back is just a wee bit worse than a serious skate cut. You are the same bunch that circled Bieksa like a pack of Hyenas, baying to be rid of him, and at how awful he was, now you are trying to take apart Raymond like vultures on what you think is carrion. You disgust me. Your opinions about Bieksa were then about as accurate as your opinions about Raymond are now.

Bieksa has shown that he can play with emotion and can become a top 50 defenseman in the NHL right now when he's playing with fire. That's why he got re-signed. Because he can play physically and brings a lot of emotion to his game and has worked his butt off to be where he's at right now. Raymond hasn't shown any improvement whatsoever. Sure, last season he added weight, but that didn't benefit AT ALL. He hardly crashed the net even with the added weight and he has no finish. Granted, the past handful of games, he's had numerous chances to bury wide open nets but for some odd reason, he's holding a ton of bad baggage and can't seem to catch a break at all. Yeah he has speed but what good does it get when all you do is chip and chase and do nothing but circle around the net?
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credit to allons-y

Certainly going to be our #1 defensemen. Give him a couple more years to improve his game and he'll be our new and improved version of Matthias Ohlund in no time

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^Truth


#308 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:15 AM

Oh look how the mob is out with their torches and pitchforks. Raymond really has become the whipping boy around here. No perspective...
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#309 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:18 AM

In a performance based business as a second liner on one of the top three team's in the league let's take a look:

6 goals scored y/t/d.

One goal in February.

One assist in February.

One goal in January.

Three assists in January.

In the last 21 games played he has two goals and a shooting percentage of 5.85%.

Raymond? Does anybody want him?
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#310 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:25 AM

Raymond for Allen


Regular Season:
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Higgins
Schroeder-Hodgson-Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Bitz
Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Allen-Tanev
Rome/Alberts



Playoffs:
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Higgins
Reinprecht-Hodgson-Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Bitz
Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Ballard-Allen
Alberts/Rome

Luongo
Schneider
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#311 DeNiro

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:31 AM

Oh look how the mob is out with their torches and pitchforks. Raymond really has become the whipping boy around here. No perspective...


Sorry, but no intelligent person can defend Raymond's game right now. He has been down right brutal.

Tonight he had a rebound come right to him with an open net and he wiffed on it. Chances like that need to be buried, especially in the playoffs where scoring chances become fewer and more far between.

I was really hoping he would eventually regain his touch and find his way, but the guy is absolutely lost out there. It's like he's completely forgot where the net is on the ice.

Typical Raymond shift: Skate back and forth really fast, wait for someone to get you the puck, then skate it through the neutral zone, make a few moves, then dash for the corner and get muscled off the puck by a defender.

I don't wanna be a hater, but I've pretty much had enough...
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#312 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:37 AM

Oh look how the mob is out with their torches and pitchforks. Raymond really has become the whipping boy around here. No perspective...

It's not about hating the guy, Raymond needs a change of scenery. He has talent, but he lacks confidence and chemistry with the team.
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#313 DeNiro

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:40 AM

It's not about hating the guy, Raymond needs a change of scenery. He has talent, but he lacks confidence and chemistry with the team.


I don't really blame the guy cause really what has Kesler been doing out there?

Considering he's the centerman and is supposed to make plays happen, he hasn't been doing much other than scoring some powerplay goals.

That being said, that second line needs an upgrade to spark them and get them going. If we don't have a second line in the playoffs we're toast.
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#314 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:49 AM

Hell, why not let Ballard play a fourth line role and have Mayray on the third pairing for defense. Oh right, Raymond is not a freaking defenceman.

The argument that he is good defensively is almost a moot point. He is a forward, he is supposed to score goals and get assists. All I've seen him do for the past two months is fall down and have the puck taken away from him. Truly pathetic. I hope he is traded because he is actually bringing the second line and I would argue, the entire team down with his poor play. He has little to no passion in improving his game. I think that's been proven by the last two seasons. Just look at his stats. Facts are facts.


That's it then.....................the above explains to us that you don't understand the game.
Just for your benefit. There are only 5 players on the ice (excluding the goalie) only two of these are defenders..............So having a forward who chips in with goals and assists but is an excellent defensive/ transitional/ player with top 10% speed is an asset on any team.............more so on a line made up of two players who won't pass, run into defensive traps and lose the puck on 9 times out of every 10 times they "go to the net"
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#315 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:51 AM

It's not about hating the guy, Raymond needs a change of scenery. He has talent, but he lacks confidence and chemistry with the team.


Unsubstantiated bollocks.

He is playing a better all round game just now than either Booth or Kesler.
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#316 King of Anarchy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

Miss the net
Fall down
Repeat

Answer: No, we don't.
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#317 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:12 AM

"Tonight he had a rebound come right to him with an open net and he wiffed on it."

Firstly, was that the total sum of his contribution?................no it wasn't.

I hope you had enough OPTREX to wash your tired strained eyes after being perched on the edge of your seat just waiting.........no, hoping...........nope, PRAYING for Raymond to make a mistake so you could scurry back on here and display your shallow mind.

Secondly, where exactly were the rest of the top 6 last night on the scoresheet? I've looked but all I can see is Weise's name a 4th liner who was on the ice a total of 6+ minutes.

Lastly, I have seen Booth and Daniel make the same play recently. I have seen Booth right through and squander in front of the goalie, I have seen all of our top six making as big or bigger faux pas in front of goal.............

It's too easy to take one incident and use it to justify some kind of vigilante witch hunt. I could do the same for any player you care to mention.

But what is it all about? Are we not all fans of the TEAM.........the guys wearing the jerseys?

What IS THE POINT of coming on here and conducting some kind of witch hunt on one of our own players. Is that what being a fan is about? I hope not. It's not even as if anyone at the Hockey Club gives a damn about what is printed here...............So I say again why all the negative effort?

Luongo says hi!
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#318 georgeparrosesmustache

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:12 AM

Sorry, but no intelligent person can defend Raymond's game right now. He has been down right brutal.

Tonight he had a rebound come right to him with an open net and he wiffed on it. Chances like that need to be buried, especially in the playoffs where scoring chances become fewer and more far between.

I was really hoping he would eventually regain his touch and find his way, but the guy is absolutely lost out there. It's like he's completely forgot where the net is on the ice.

Typical Raymond shift: Skate back and forth really fast, wait for someone to get you the puck, then skate it through the neutral zone, make a few moves, then dash for the corner and get muscled off the puck by a defender.

I don't wanna be a hater, but I've pretty much had enough...


enter Bodee lol :P
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#319 Baggins

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:34 AM

What IS THE POINT of coming on here and conducting some kind of witch hunt on one of our own players. Is that what being a fan is about? I hope not. It's not even as if anyone at the Hockey Club gives a damn about what is printed here...............So I say again why all the negative effort? Luongo says hi!


It's been like this forever on this board of fickle fans. I used to say, "I wish they would trade him just to shut you guys up". But sadly once that prime target was gone the pitbulls would just zero in on another target. The fans here always need a whipping boy. Raymond is simply the most recent in a long line of whipping boys.
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#320 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:57 AM

Yes,we are all so excited jumping up and down,hardly able to contain ourselves at the goal per month pace May Ray is on.

It is so invigorating,inspiring.Read the accolades herein.He is so worthy.

He is being showcased on the second line on a top three team in the entire league and he is having a hard time figuring the whole process out.
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#321 Baggins

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:05 AM

Sorry, but no intelligent person can defend Raymond's game right now. He has been down right brutal. Tonight he had a rebound come right to him with an open net and he wiffed on it. Chances like that need to be buried, especially in the playoffs where scoring chances become fewer and more far between. I was really hoping he would eventually regain his touch and find his way, but the guy is absolutely lost out there. It's like he's completely forgot where the net is on the ice. Typical Raymond shift: Skate back and forth really fast, wait for someone to get you the puck, then skate it through the neutral zone, make a few moves, then dash for the corner and get muscled off the puck by a defender. I don't wanna be a hater, but I've pretty much had enough...



Daniel, Burrows, Kesler, Booth.....none have ever whiffed on a shot? Not ever? Open your eyes there sparky you're missing a lot.
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#322 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:50 AM

Vinny Prospel is the Columbus BJ's second line left winger.

Columbus is in last place in the western conference.

Vinny has four points in the last five games and 11 points in 2012 / 22 games played.

Vinny is 37 years of age.

Mason has one goal and one assist in his last 12 games played,six points in 2012 and is 26 years old playing for the conference's top contending team.

Vancouver has nearly double the points as Columbus and the last place team's second line left winger is scoring at twice the pace as the first place team's second line LW.

Nothing to lament about here.All is right in the world of Mason Raymond.

I love the Canucks chances with MayRay's game going up against Philly and Washington or Boston/NJ.

Edited by nuck nit, 22 February 2012 - 06:55 AM.

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#323 Wh!stler R!der

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:23 AM

Woops, sorry for double post(s).

Lol more like 20+ posts, it's all good.
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#324 CanucksJay

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:12 AM

The last player, before Raymond, to get this kind of treatment after a devastating injury, was Kevin Bieksa - and let me add that a broken back is just a wee bit worse than a serious skate cut. You are the same bunch that circled Bieksa like a pack of Hyenas, baying to be rid of him, and at how awful he was, now you are trying to take apart Raymond like vultures on what you think is carrion. You disgust me. Your opinions about Bieksa were then about as accurate as your opinions about Raymond are now.


I actually was supportive of Bieksa and the rest of the Canucks.
I'm even supportive of Ballard and Lu
I actually feel bad for Mase that this thread is getting bigger and bigger and he is even more under the microscope.

I think we'd all be good if Mayray take a small paycut, signs long term and plays on the 3rd or 4th line with some big bodies that can protect him. He can essentially pull a Maholtra and salvage his career by turning himself into a defensive specialist.
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#325 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:13 AM

Hell, why not let Ballard play a fourth line role and have Mayray on the third pairing for defense. Oh right, Raymond is not a freaking defenceman.

The argument that he is good defensively is almost a moot point. He is a forward, he is supposed to score goals and get assists. All I've seen him do for the past two months is fall down and have the puck taken away from him. Truly pathetic. I hope he is traded because he is actually bringing the second line and I would argue, the entire team down with his poor play. He has little to no passion in improving his game. I think that's been proven by the last two seasons. Just look at his stats. Facts are facts.

Facts? Those aren't "facts", they're your opinion.

How exactly is he "bringing the team down"? They just lost in regulation for the first time in over a month.

Meanwhile, nothing from the first line last night, but somehow it's Raymond's fault. Probably the worst game Sami Salo has played in two years, but it's Raymond's fault.

Yes, Mayray whiffed on that rebound. We all know that the Canucks would have gone on to win had he buried that chance. :rolleyes: Of course bad bounces only happen to players that we don't like. The first period penalty to Rome was a perfect example of that.

Lets call a spade a spade here: Raymond is currently struggling offensively. However, there is nothing wrong with his heart or his effort. He continues to work hard at both ends of the ice. Unfortunately for him, "hard work" does not show up in the boxscore and is easily overlooked by one's detractors.

At this point I tend to agree that he's more suited to third line duty, however, I understand AV's reluctance to make the change. The current "Triple H" line looks dangerous in virtually every outing and gives the team better overall balance than it might have if Raymond and Higgins were rotated. However, this is still an option, if it turns out that last nights offensive woes continue.

Would I trade him if an update was possible? Of course I would. But how is that even possible if he's as bad as all of you claim? (with the exception of Bodee, Baggins and the Cammer, of course)
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#326 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:24 AM

Ray Ferrarro is saying that Raymond is a winger that needs to start playing in the centre of the ice to be effective.

He says May Ray is healthy now and is still playing on the outside.

He expects the Canucks to fill the second line winger's spot,if they can,by the deadline.

This is coming live on the Team at 7:20 am PDT.

Edited by nuck nit, 22 February 2012 - 08:26 AM.

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#327 CanucksJay

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:24 AM

Facts? Those aren't "facts", they're your opinion.

How exactly is he "bringing the team down"? They just lost in regulation for the first time in over a month.

Meanwhile, nothing from the first line last night, but somehow it's Raymond's fault. Probably the worst game Sami Salo has played in two years, but it's Raymond's fault.

Yes, Mayray whiffed on that rebound. We all know that the Canucks would have gone on to win had he buried that chance. :rolleyes: Of course bad bounces only happen to players that we don't like. The first period penalty to Rome was a perfect example of that.

Lets call a spade a spade here: Raymond is currently struggling offensively. However, there is nothing wrong with his heart or his effort. He continues to work hard at both ends of the ice. Unfortunately for him, "hard work" does not show up in the boxscore and is easily overlooked by one's detractors.

At this point I tend to agree that he's more suited to third line duty, however, I understand AV's reluctance to make the change. The current "Triple H" line looks dangerous in virtually every outing and gives the team better overall balance than it might have if Raymond and Higgins were rotated. However, this is still an option, if it turns out that last nights offensive woes continue.

Would I trade him if an update was possible? Of course I would. But how is that even possible if he's as bad as all of you claim? (with the exception of Bodee, Baggins and the Cammer, of course)


I know we were previously in a long spat but I agree with you on your post.
Watching Raymond closely has helped me understand that he could be a valuable bottom 6 guy. I definitely don't think he's top 6 material (despite what Baggins says) but he is solid defensively. Also his work ethic should not be questioned because the guy gives it his all every shift.

But this brings the question of the Triple H line. They look dangerous right now but if we switch Raymond for Higgins, would the 3rd line chances drop?

Does that mean we put Raymond on 4th?

Anyway you slice it, 2.55 for a defensive bottom 6 forward seems like a lot when they don't possess a skill like Manny who is a faceoff specialist/ veteran / locker room leader.
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#328 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

I know we were previously in a long spat but I agree with you on your post.
Watching Raymond closely has helped me understand that he could be a valuable bottom 6 guy. I definitely don't think he's top 6 material (despite what Baggins says) but he is solid defensively. Also his work ethic should not be questioned because the guy gives it his all every shift.

But this brings the question of the Triple H line. They look dangerous right now but if we switch Raymond for Higgins, would the 3rd line chances drop?

Does that mean we put Raymond on 4th?

Anyway you slice it, 2.55 for a defensive bottom 6 forward seems like a lot when they don't possess a skill like Manny who is a faceoff specialist/ veteran / locker room leader.


Which might be something to look at in the off-season, but with the team currently gunning for the Cup and an upgrade over Raymond not likely, (despite CDCers' fervent hopes) it makes sense to me to continue with what we have and hope that he picks up his offensive game.

If that doesn't happen, then the third line beckons, and I think most of us agree that Raymond plays a solid defensive game.

BTW: I don't see him dragging the third line down....
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#329 CanucksJay

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:54 AM

Which might be something to look at in the off-season, but with the team currently gunning for the Cup and an upgrade over Raymond not likely, (despite CDCers' fervent hopes) it makes sense to me to continue with what we have and hope that he picks up his offensive game.

If that doesn't happen, then the third line beckons, and I think most of us agree that Raymond plays a solid defensive game.

BTW: I don't see him dragging the third line down....


Yes, maybe just switching Higgins with Raymond will increase production on 2nd and keep 3rd line steady.

However, I think it would be beneficial for Raymond to play on a line with at least 1 big body that can create space and add grit.
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#330 nuck nit

nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:05 AM

Facts? Those aren't "facts", they're your opinion.

How exactly is he "bringing the team down"? They just lost in regulation for the first time in over a month.

Would I trade him if an update was possible? Of course I would. But how is that even possible if he's as bad as all of you claim? (with the exception of Bodee, Baggins and the Cammer, of course)


Good question.He has not been traded.He is obviously that bad.

One goal a month pace for the speedy,coveted May Ray.

I will make the comparison again:

Vinny Prospel is the Columbus BJ's second line left winger.

Columbus is in last place in the western conference.

Vinny has four points in the last five games and 11 points in 2012 / 22 games played.

Vinny is 37 years of age.

Mason has one goal and one assist in his last 12 games played,six points in 2012 and is 26 years old playing for the conference's top contending team.

Vancouver has nearly double the points as Columbus and the last place team's second line left winger is scoring at twice the pace as the first place team's second line LW.

Edited by nuck nit, 22 February 2012 - 09:07 AM.

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