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Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


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#391 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:26 PM

Burrows, Hansen, Higgins and Hodgson say Hi! Man, you Raymond haters are really starting to embarrass yourselves now.


I dont understand. Those players you mentioned are significantly more valuable then Raymond.
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#392 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:27 PM

Are you actually serious or are you trolling? Either way you sound like a idiot.


I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.....
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#393 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:48 PM

Are you actually serious or are you trolling? Either way you sound like a idiot.


only an idiot would be fighting to keep Mason Raymond on this team with the Playoffs around the corner when the stakes are real and men play like savages and bodycheck every shift.
It's regular season and the guy is invisible.
Typical Raymond shift is a whole bunch of skating around looking busy ending with falling in the corner.
If we're to have a chance beating Boston we can't have waifs like Raymond flopping around. real talk.
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#394 Pride

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

87 posts and you have been waiting for years..............some might say that makes you a damn liar. Not me tho' I just think you're sad.

When Raymond put up what is looking to be the best numbers he will ever get in his career I wanted him traded for a substantial return.

Now look at what we have. Washed up waste of a roster spot.

you are just some delusional fanboy who thinks he knows something about the game.
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#395 CanucksJay

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

So after reading everything on the board

I believe the biggest proponents of Raymond are
Baggins, Bodee

Baggins actually thinks Raymond is a solid 2nd liner

Miller and I are neutral

And then there's a lot of hate.

I still think he has some value to the Canucks and we shouldn't necessarily trade him for the sake of getting rid of him.

I actually think he's a very serviceable 3rd liner and if he signs on for 2m or less, I actually like him as our 3rd line winger. If this is the case, I wouldnt mind if MG acquired a Big body to create space for Raymond and Hodgson on the 3rd line and move Higgins up to 2nd line.

If this happens, I expect we'll get better production from all 3 lines and scoring will go up and everyone will be on the Raymond bandwagon again. ::D

Edited by CanucksJay, 23 February 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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#396 Baggins

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

My addition was slightly off after putting the numbers in a spread sheet but here ya go:

https://docs.google....FqclZWdnc#gid=0

Powerplay opportunities is not actual opportunities, I just divided the minutes by two in order to get a kill rate based on a 2min minor.


So you actually went through all their career game sheets to see who was on the ice for ppga?
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#397 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:45 PM

you are just some delusional fanboy who thinks he knows something about the game.


bang on assessment of a 66 year old loser whose only excuse is if he's Raymond's Dad or Uncle.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#398 Millerdraft

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:50 PM

So you actually went through all their career game sheets to see who was on the ice for ppga?


No, do I really need to? It's a large enough sample size, is it not?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#399 Viking13

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:54 PM

Hansen had one more point and Higgins had the same in the playoffs. Neither of them have Raymond's defensive qualities.........This board is crawling with people eager to put those 2 on the 2nd line. He handles the puck better than most of the team.........do you even watch the games?
You are so wrapped up in your dislike for a fine player, any judgement or logic you might have possessed is only a distant memory.


OK, Higgins might of had the same points as Raymond did but there's more to it than that... 1) Higgins HAS chemistry with Kesler and Booth, Raymond DOESN'T, not to mention the fact that Higgins has the ability to play a grittier brand of hockey than Raymond will ever be able to, in short MayRay is a one dimensional player... 2) I could care less if Raymond "handles" the puck better than most of the team according to you, HE SIMPLY CAN'T FINISH WITH IT!!! This is why I pointed out his ability as a good third line player and PK specialist...3) You don't know me, don't question the level of attention that I pay to the Canucks, EVER... I'm the biggest fan out of anyone that I personally know... 4) When somebody has an opinion you don't like you get straight to personal attacks as demonstrated in the below highlighted post, so grow up a bit would ya...

I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.


You should listen to your own advise in this case ^

I'm sorry but this is completely false. Higgins has Raymond bested in nearly every RTSS there is:

Exhibit one: Higgins has 8shg (in 460gp) to Raymond's 2shg (308gp) to Hansen's 2shg (249gp).
So 1.42shg/82gp to 0.53shg/82gp to 0.65shg/82gp.

Exhibit two: Higgins has 302-114 takeaways-giveaways (39-12 this year). Raymond has 125-75 TA-GA (10-7 this year). Hansen has 105-51 (25-17 this year).
So 53-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 33-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 35-17 TA-GA per 82gp.

Exhibit three: Higgins has 280 blocked shots to Raymond's 68 blocked shots to Hansen's 75 blocked shots.
So 50 blocked shots/82gp to 18.1 blocked shots/82gp to 25 blocked shots per 82gp.

Exhibit four: Higgins has 517 hits to Raymond's 187 hits to Hansen's 296 hits.
So 92 hits/82gp to 50 hits/82gp to 97 hits/82gp.

Exhibit five:

Higgins:
11/12 6ppga in 57mins = 78.6% PK rate
10/11 6ppga in 109mins = 89.1% PK rate
09/10 11ppga in 145mins = 84.9% PK rate
08/09 12ppga in 122mins = 80.4% PK rate
07/08 10ppga in 127mins = 84.4% PK rate
06/07 14ppga in 129mins = 78.5% PK rate
05/06 16ppga in 182mins = 82.4% PK rate
Career totals: 70ppga in 774mins = 82.0% PK rate


Raymond:
11/12 1ppga in 40mins = 95%
10/11 5ppga in 75mins = 86.9%
09/10 13ppga in 128mins = 79.7%
08/09 6ppga in 56mins = 78.6%
Career totals: 25ppga in 299mins = 83.4%

Hansen:
11/12 12ppga in 138mins = 82.6%
10/11 9ppga in 198mins = 91%
09/10 9ppga in 84mins = 78.6%
08/09 8ppga in 93mins = 73%
Career totals: 38ppga in 513mins = 85.3%


You got schooled here bud ^ .... This is a fine example of someone who researches and backs their opinion up with the proper tact needed, mark it down in your memory and try to act respectful and proper in the future, many people including myself would greatly appreciate it...
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Bush league fans have made Luongo the scapegoat for Vancouver's shortfall... Typical...

#400 Baggins

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:59 PM

Guess again, Raymond has 308gp to Hansen's 249gp, meaning Raymond blocks 18 shots per 82 games, Hansen blocks 25 per 82gp.


Actually I just opened the thread to the very end. As in the last post. nuck nit's post to be precise. He simply posted numbers without any reference. No quote that he was responding to nor any mention of career numbers. I assumed he was comparing their numbers for this season. My bad.

By your formula, using career, Henrik scores 68.8 points per 82 games. Shouldn't he be a second line player? And he only scores 16.8 goals per 82 games. Raymond scores 17.6 goals per 82 games. It's funny what you can do with numbers.
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#401 Bodee

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:02 PM

bang on assessment of a 66 year old loser whose only excuse is if he's Raymond's Dad or Uncle.


Said like a real nappy filler. Junior go to bed, you can't open your mouth without embarrassing yourself.
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#402 CanucksJay

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

Actually I just opened the thread to the very end. As in the last post. nuck nit's post to be precise. He simply posted numbers without any reference. No quote that he was responding to nor any mention of career numbers. I assumed he was comparing their numbers for this season. My bad.

By your formula, using career, Henrik scores 68.8 points per 82 games. Shouldn't he be a second line player? And he only scores 16.8 goals per 82 games. Raymond scores 17.6 goals per 82 games. It's funny what you can do with numbers.


LOL. Dude what is your point?

Semantics aside, are you still saying Raymond is a good 2nd liner on this team?
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#403 Baggins

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

OK, Higgins might of had the same points as Raymond did but there's more to it than that... 1) Higgins HAS chemistry with Kesler and Booth, Raymond DOESN'T, not to mention the fact that Higgins has the ability to play a grittier brand of hockey than Raymond will ever be able to, in short MayRay is a one dimensional player... 2) I could care less if Raymond "handles" the puck better than most of the team according to you, HE SIMPLY CAN'T FINISH WITH IT!!!


Same points but....Higgins has chemistry and Raymond doesn't. Same points but....Higgins can finish and Raymond can't. Umm...same points...

Is there something wrong with this picture?
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#404 Bodee

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:04 PM


Posted ImageBodee, on 22 February 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:


I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.


You should listen to your own advise in this case ^




You should learn to read............and comprehend. Then you might not make a fool of yourself.

Edited by Bodee, 23 February 2012 - 03:06 PM.

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#405 kloubek

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

I really think MG ought to package Raymond to get a player who actually helps the Canucks. With our depth, he is not the best candidate for the 2nd line and he is not strong enough to play on the lower two lines like Higgins or Hansen are. Of course, packaging Raymond with other assets is hardly an idea that hasn't been talked about extensively already on CDC.

I think he would do well on another team that has a less talented 2nd line and plays a speed game. And while his trade value might not be massive, I do think that in a package with other assets we could get a player coming back that could really help us on the 2nd line or blueline.
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Biggest Canucks Fan this Side of the Rockies.

#406 CanucksJay

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:06 PM

Same points but....Higgins has chemistry and Raymond doesn't. Same points but....Higgins can finish and Raymond can't. Umm...same points...

Is there something wrong with this picture?


Yeah there is something wrong with the picture. You dont actually pay attention to the chemistry of the line and you actually think Raymond is as good as Higgins and is deserving of 2nd line duty
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#407 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:10 PM

Said like a real nappy filler. Junior go to bed, you can't open your mouth without embarrassing yourself.


Please, all jokes aside,
please get yourself some help
http://www.mindcheck.ca
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#408 Millerdraft

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:11 PM

Actually I just opened the thread to the very end. As in the last post. nuck nit's post to be precise. He simply posted numbers without any reference. No quote that he was responding to nor any mention of career numbers. I assumed he was comparing their numbers for this season. My bad.

By your formula, using career, Henrik scores 68.8 points per 82 games. Shouldn't he be a second line player? And he only scores 16.8 goals per 82 games. Raymond scores 17.6 goals per 82 games. It's funny what you can do with numbers.


Except that anyone with eyes can see that Raymond, Hansen & Higgins all play the PK and all are known to be good forecheckers with good defensive acumen. Comparing Henrik to Raymond is obviously a bit of a stretch, is it not? I compared three very similar two-way players and you pulled out a Hart trophy winner and compared him to a two-way 2nd liner.

As for Raymond's goals per 82gp, that's a very valid statistic and ought to wake up some of the over the top haters that his numbers aren't all that terrible (especially since he doesn't really get much time on the PP).
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#409 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:13 PM

Posted ImageBodee, on 22 February 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.


You should listen to your own advise in this case ^




You should learn to read............and comprehend. Then you might not make a fool of yourself.


the old crazy guy calling everyone else crazy :picard:
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#410 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:15 PM

Moen, Ott, Gausten + Bryan Allen
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#411 Baggins

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:17 PM

LOL. Dude what is your point?

Semantics aside, are you still saying Raymond is a good 2nd liner on this team?

We know he can be. So yes. Is he struggling? Yes he is. But he did have a rather major event last June. The last two seasons he has shown he's a capable second line player. There's no reason to believe different at this point.


Last season's number 6 forward:

Detroit: Filppula 39 points in 71 games
Boston: Marchand 41 points in 77 games
Chicago: Frolik 38 points in 80 games

Vancouver: Raymond 39 points in 70 games

What does that tell you?
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#412 Millerdraft

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:18 PM

^
+1
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#413 Viking13

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:19 PM

Posted ImageBodee, on 22 February 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.


You should listen to your own advise in this case ^




You should learn to read............and comprehend. Then you might not make a fool of yourself.


I know what I read and it's easy to comprehend that you're flying around here whipping out insults like they're 5 dollar bills... Relax before you have a jammer... I fail to understand how it is that you can't see that it is YOU that is making the fool of yourself..
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Bush league fans have made Luongo the scapegoat for Vancouver's shortfall... Typical...

#414 Viking13

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:19 PM

the old crazy guy calling everyone else crazy :picard:


No doubt there!!! LOL
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Bush league fans have made Luongo the scapegoat for Vancouver's shortfall... Typical...

#415 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

A 66 yr old fella catching feelings online in a Canucks chatroom
:picard:
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#416 Millerdraft

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

A 66 yr old fella catching feelings online in a Canucks chatroom
:picard:


In Bodee's defence this place can be irritating as hell with all these unsubstantiated "player myths" that get thrown around and it can be frustrating trying to get people to look at something with an open mind.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#417 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:32 PM

I know what I read and it's easy to comprehend that you're flying around here whipping out insults like they're 5 dollar bills... Relax before you have a jammer... I fail to understand how it is that you can't see that it is YOU that is making the fool of yourself..


now that's some real talk for the old man and his clownshow.
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#418 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:33 PM

I'm not calling a decent player a little kid. But if you're interested I had my 66th birthday in December.........

Edit, I have added it now for anyone interested.


Well then, happy belated birthday! I turned 23 on the 18th of Dec, myself. Just curious, where you born in Scotland or just live there?
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Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#419 CanucksJay

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

We know he can be. So yes. Is he struggling? Yes he is. But he did have a rather major event last June. The last two seasons he has shown he's a capable second line player. There's no reason to believe different at this point.


Last season's number 6 forward:

Detroit: Filppula 39 points in 71 games
Boston: Marchand 41 points in 77 games
Chicago: Frolik 38 points in 80 games

Vancouver: Raymond 39 points in 70 games

What does that tell you?



LOL ...
2 can play that game

Lets see... when the going gets tough...

Career Playoff Numbers

Marchand 25 GP 19 Pts 0.76 pts/game
Filppula 86 GP 49 Pts 0.57 pts /game
Frolik 7 GP 5 Pts 0.71 pts/game

And then....

Raymond 46 GP 15 Pts 0.33 pts/game

wut...


As for Filppula at 0.57 career pts/game , last year he had 8 pts in 11 Games (also over 0.7 pts per game)

Oh you want to take Raymond's playoff numbers last year? 8 pts / 24 games for 0.33

At least he's consistent... :rolleyes:

Thank you for further proving my point.

I find it hilarious that you hand picked 3 players to showcase Raymond and it blew up in your face.

Edited by CanucksJay, 23 February 2012 - 03:51 PM.

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#420 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:39 PM

"It's one thing to listen to what media experts say. It's quite another to just believe them." Vanuck

Ferraro was a 192 point per year Brandon Wheat King ,Memorial Cup winner and 1258 NHL regular season games played veteran.22 professional years spent playing in the NHL,alone.

Ray scored 108 goals in a single year for Brandon,two-40 goal NHL campaigns and has 898 NHL points.

He is as close to an NHL expert as you will find.

He is now in media because he is the man,the NHL man.Calling Ray a media expert is like calling Gretzky a coach.

Ray lives in Vancouver and is as close to the Canucks as near anyone is in the broadcasting system today.

The fact is ,Van needs to dump salary if they want to attempt to acquire a playoff contending winger or D man.

If you don't trade the under performing and weak May Ray, just who goes to create the needed salary for a player that will go to the dirty areas,hit and score?


Ray may get the sense that fans are clamouring to trade Raymond... doesn't mean it'll actually happen without good reason. And what player are you going to acquire for him who can also do the same things at the same or similar salary?

Edit: About what some of the posters in this thread have been saying... it makes me want to tear my eyes out. :picard: Where's the civility?

Edited by Canvoucer Vanuck, 23 February 2012 - 03:43 PM.

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RIP LB28, RR37 and PD38... Forever a Canuck
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