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Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


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#571 Bodee

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:56 AM

Actually Bodee, if you read my previous posts in this topic I NEVER said I hated Raymond or anything remotely close to it... I actually gave him props as a third line player and a PK specialist... That, my friend is not negative or hate, it was my own objective opinion on Mase... Yes, there are some here that have nothing but drivel to throw into any number of topics, but I'm not one of them... Rather than ranting on about me, perhaps go back and re-read what I said about Raymond rather than ASSUME that I'm a hater... Oh and you should take some things with a grain of salt, sir... Not all of what people write or say is intended to be taken so seriously (eg. my sunshine comment, it's metaphoric in meaning not literal) That is all...


I realised it was metaphoric, it's just that I can never resist selling my country.:-)...........As for being taken seriously I really don't care if they mean it or not, they commit it to print and help sad wee laddies like D J Bollocks to get some credibility. That in itself is bad enough.

Don't feel singled out by the way I admit I have not really seen your name as prevalent amongst these type of posts and so I apologise if I said or implied you were one of the "usual suspects."
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#572 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:22 PM

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Booth is a nightmare on this team. He can't be on a line where we already have Kes because Kes is also greedy but the difference is, he can cut it and has chemistry with Raymond.

Higgins has slumped, no one can deny that but he has a valid excuse.

Lastly please leave me out of the "Raymond lovers" It really wouldn't bother me if he was in the team or not. However I watch the games (sometimes more than once) and it seems to me he is a victim of crass assassination of his game and his character.

Lying about a player, doesn't go down well with me so I support him on here as long as he is giving his all and wears the jersey. I have never said he is perfect but which of our players are?

I will repeat here what doesn't seem to penetrate the cerebrally challenged Raymond hate campaigners. THIS IS JUST A FORUM, NO ONE IN THE ORGANISATION GIVES A -----WHAT YOU THINK.


Two assists, two somewhat unlucky posts, four takeaways, one giveaway and a +2 rating in his last three games played. Raymond has two somewhat lucky goals, no assists, three takeaways, two giveaways and a +1 in his last two games played. If Higgins is struggling so is Raymond when you factor in a game of inches (an inch to the right and Higgins has two goals - an inch lower and Raymond has none).

No, neither player is struggling atm, they are both playing well. Booth on the other hand is struggling. Btw, for a guy who says:

No one deserves the kind of rubbish printed about him by the CDC jackals that he has had to endure. He is one of our own players and not only is it disloyal but it is immature and crass.

It just bugs you that there are some decent folk out here who still believe in supporting the guys who wear the jerseys.


Why are you then saying this?!

Booth is a nightmare on this team.


You're as much of an hypocrite as the rest of "us".

Edited by Millerdraft, 01 March 2012 - 03:23 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#573 georgeparrosesmustache

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

Bodee

Lol
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Pleasejustwin.


#574 Pride

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:43 PM

bodee is a senile old man who can never back anything up.

huge hypocrite and it is funny reading his posts since he knows nothing about hockey
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#575 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:20 PM

That last picture is worth 1,734 words .. B)


It's worth 1,735 words, actually. :P
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Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#576 KES

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:29 PM

Raymond is being used in the wrong role by AV. There's no question he's a perimeter player. A couple of years ago when he got 25 goals it was because he was actually starting to drive to the net. Since then he's reverted to being a perimeter player. Having said that, he is very good defensively. He comes back and supports the defence (after he's fallen down and lost the puck in the offensive zone), pesters his check and is good at take aways.
In the offensive zone he's easy to knock off the puck, has poor vision, is a poor passer and takes low percentage shots from the outside. He's had more than enough opportunity to produce and he won't; you can see it by his style of play. However, since AV's committed to having a checking third line, Raymond would fit on that line nicely. Higgins should be with Kesler and Booth as it was obvious they had some chemistry when they played together.
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#577 ZK9

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

To everyone spouting off about Raymond because he`s on the 2nd line, blame the coach then.

I think it should be like this:

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler- Higgins
Raymond - Lapierre - Hansen
Malhotra - Pahlsson - Kassian

Pahlsson is simply NOT a 3C on a contender. Lapierre would bring more to the table offensively.


good at checking...

Posted Image

Always first to the puck...
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Gotta love his spin-o-rama

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Posted Image


LOL..

I don't get how raymond is on the second line, he does nothing to help offensively nor does he ever pass. Hansen, Higgins, Kassian should be given more opportunities and help out that secondary scoring problem. Raymond needs to go next year. I don't care if he's had back surgery or what not, that doesn't inhibit you to pass the puck. He's very frustrating to watch in the offensive zone.

I don't see us signing mayray in the offseason unless he goes beast mode in the playoffs.

Edited by ZK9, 01 March 2012 - 10:57 PM.

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#578 Gunner Garrison

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:59 PM

After this game where all he did was skate in circles, put him on the 3rd line and move Higgins up

Only reason I wouldn't want to move Raymond to the 4th line is because of the chemistry the 4th has.
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#579 lexluthor

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:06 PM

Well, I think he only fell once in the game vs the Blues tonight. But he didn't engage with the opposition players at all, either. I guess that's why he only fell down once tonight. Such a sorry site to see someone that plays like that not wanting to contribute offensive yet only worries about not being scored on while on the ice.
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#580 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:25 AM

F**k Sobotka. That was an elbow on Raymond and I can`t believe the refs didn`t call it. Not calling penalties in order to not influence the game is just as bad as calling everything.
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#581 Sixteen W's

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:36 AM

Raymond's cap hit is lower than Pahlsson's, about the same as Malhotra, and a lot lower than Booth's. He's not scoring, but at least he's defensively responsible. And he scored 25 goals just two seasons ago. I'm worried Booth will get this kind of hate if he keeps underperforming.
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#582 Bodee

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:13 PM

Two assists, two somewhat unlucky posts, four takeaways, one giveaway and a +2 rating in his last three games played. Raymond has two somewhat lucky goals, no assists, three takeaways, two giveaways and a +1 in his last two games played. If Higgins is struggling so is Raymond when you factor in a game of inches (an inch to the right and Higgins has two goals - an inch lower and Raymond has none).

No, neither player is struggling atm, they are both playing well. Booth on the other hand is struggling. Btw, for a guy who says:

Why are you then saying this?!


You're as much of an hypocrite as the rest of "us".


The difference is there is little upside to Booths play just now. I never said that CDC'rs couldn't have an opinion on the players, I just object to unfair ridicule and character/game assassination.

Now show me where I have said Booth must be traded. I repeat I have no problem with criticism of Raymond if it is factual. I have a problem when things are made up about his play, where other aspect of his game which he is doing well are ignored and when he is being touted and ridiculed in every trade thread going including a bag of pucks.

So try to understand the meaning of the word Hypocrite before acting the bold boy. Hypocrites will be the people on here 6 months from now who are comparing Raymond to Pavel Bure and their ilk after slaughtering him...........as we have recently had with Cody, Luongo, Bieksa, Ballard, Manny et al.

I always support Booth and any other player when they play in the jersey. I don't have to like them. I have already said that while I am not a fan of Duco, or Bitz I have been open minded enough to appreciate their performances.
I am not a fan of Booth because imo he is greedy and when his greed doesn't pay off in goals or assists there is little else to his game. (I like Higgins, so I don't know how his name came up) However I would not constantly campaign on here for a player to be traded and support my arguments by fallacies.

My reference to Booth was as much to highlight how "flavours of the month" get a free pass while players currently contributing a lot more are ridiculed and maligned.

Edited by Bodee, 02 March 2012 - 01:16 PM.

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#583 Baggins

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:31 PM

Raymond's cap hit is lower than Pahlsson's, about the same as Malhotra, and a lot lower than Booth's. He's not scoring, but at least he's defensively responsible. And he scored 25 goals just two seasons ago. I'm worried Booth will get this kind of hate if he keeps underperforming.


Not as long as Raymond is here. :lol:
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#584 RWMc1

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:18 PM

The media guys and the Cody-butt-kissers must still be crying themselves to sleep at night. Being a Raymond supporter, I was very nervous at the trade deadline. I thought for sure the Hodgson trade was a Raymond trade. I know the Raymond hate has been media driven, so I had a good chuckle at the thought of them expecting Raymond to be gone, only to find it was Hodgson. You can still hear the quiver in their voices like they want to start crying again and are holding it back.

Raymond will never get a fair shot unless he becomes a bonafide star. Fans and media blame him for Grabner, Tambellini, and now Hodgson. Some of those clowns probably wanted Wellwood over Raymond. Meanwhile Raymond works his butt off in any role asked of him. He's not the GM, he's just a player. He's also still a Canuck. I will continue to support him.
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#585 canucksgyal

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

The difference is there is little upside to Booths play just now. I never said that CDC'rs couldn't have an opinion on the players, I just object to unfair ridicule and character/game assassination.

Now show me where I have said Booth must be traded. I repeat I have no problem with criticism of Raymond if it is factual. I have a problem when things are made up about his play, where other aspect of his game which he is doing well are ignored and when he is being touted and ridiculed in every trade thread going including a bag of pucks.

So try to understand the meaning of the word Hypocrite before acting the bold boy. Hypocrites will be the people on here 6 months from now who are comparing Raymond to Pavel Bure and their ilk after slaughtering him...........as we have recently had with Cody, Luongo, Bieksa, Ballard, Manny et al.

I always support Booth and any other player when they play in the jersey. I don't have to like them. I have already said that while I am not a fan of Duco, or Bitz I have been open minded enough to appreciate their performances.
I am not a fan of Booth because imo he is greedy and when his greed doesn't pay off in goals or assists there is little else to his game. (I like Higgins, so I don't know how his name came up) However I would not constantly campaign on here for a player to be traded and support my arguments by fallacies.

My reference to Booth was as much to highlight how "flavours of the month" get a free pass while players currently contributing a lot more are ridiculed and maligned.

The difference is there is little upside to Booths play just now. I never said that CDC'rs couldn't have an opinion on the players, I just object to unfair ridicule and character/game assassination.

Now show me where I have said Booth must be traded. I repeat I have no problem with criticism of Raymond if it is factual. I have a problem when things are made up about his play, where other aspect of his game which he is doing well are ignored and when he is being touted and ridiculed in every trade thread going including a bag of pucks.

So try to understand the meaning of the word Hypocrite before acting the bold boy. Hypocrites will be the people on here 6 months from now who are comparing Raymond to Pavel Bure and their ilk after slaughtering him...........as we have recently had with Cody, Luongo, Bieksa, Ballard, Manny et al.

I always support Booth and any other player when they play in the jersey. I don't have to like them. I have already said that while I am not a fan of Duco, or Bitz I have been open minded enough to appreciate their performances.
I am not a fan of Booth because imo he is greedy and when his greed doesn't pay off in goals or assists there is little else to his game. (I like Higgins, so I don't know how his name came up) However I would not constantly campaign on here for a player to be traded and support my arguments by fallacies.

My reference to Booth was as much to highlight how "flavours of the month" get a free pass while players currently contributing a lot more are ridiculed and maligned.


I have seen booth try to make his way through players and instead of passing, lose the puck multiple times but no one hates on him. On 2 on 1s, I just know he is going to shoot. On cdc, most blame raymond for the second lines inability of offensive production or even pressure at times, I believe the problem is booth with kesler.

Edited by canucksgyal, 02 March 2012 - 03:19 PM.

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#586 Millerdraft

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

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The difference is there is little upside to Booths play just now. I never said that CDC'rs couldn't have an opinion on the players, I just object to unfair ridicule and character/game assassination.

Now show me where I have said Booth must be traded. I repeat I have no problem with criticism of Raymond if it is factual. I have a problem when things are made up about his play, where other aspect of his game which he is doing well are ignored and when he is being touted and ridiculed in every trade thread going including a bag of pucks.

So try to understand the meaning of the word Hypocrite before acting the bold boy. Hypocrites will be the people on here 6 months from now who are comparing Raymond to Pavel Bure and their ilk after slaughtering him...........as we have recently had with Cody, Luongo, Bieksa, Ballard, Manny et al.

I always support Booth and any other player when they play in the jersey. I don't have to like them. I have already said that while I am not a fan of Duco, or Bitz I have been open minded enough to appreciate their performances.
I am not a fan of Booth because imo he is greedy and when his greed doesn't pay off in goals or assists there is little else to his game. (I like Higgins, so I don't know how his name came up) However I would not constantly campaign on here for a player to be traded and support my arguments by fallacies.

My reference to Booth was as much to highlight how "flavours of the month" get a free pass while players currently contributing a lot more are ridiculed and maligned.


Higgins' name came up because you claimed he was struggling when the stats show that he's actually outproducing Raymond, atm.

As for calling you a hypocrite, I stand by my remarks. You slam Booth by calling him a nightmare and greedy, and fail to see things like the unselfish plays he made to set up Kesler for an absolutely glorious one-timer in the high slot in the Phoenix game and the unselfish dish to Kesler he made on a rush vs St. Louis last night. At the same time that you ignore all of the good things he does (like like puck protection/willingness to set screens/willingness to go to the dirty areas around the net and risk the punishment/drivin to the net with or without the puck and taking a defender with him which opens up space) you then voice displeasure with fans that ignore all of the good things that Raymond does.

This sentence could be said just as much about Raymond as it could be said about Booth:

I am not a fan of Booth/Raymond because imo he is greedy and when his greed doesn't pay off in goals or assists there is little else to his game.


That is the very definition of a hypocritical stance. That's okay though, you also seem to believe that neither Hansen nor Higgins can hold a candle to Raymond's defensive prowess which just tells me you have a fairly large set of blinders on when you are evaluating Raymond's game and thus it really doesn't come across as much of a surprise.

Edit: Ftr, I think the Booth-Kesler-Raymond line looks like it has all the ingredients to be successful and by putting our two best all around defensive wingers (Higgins & Hansen have a more physically punishing skill set than Raymond) with Pahlsson we get a great shutdown line that can fatigue the best lines in the league.

Edited by Millerdraft, 02 March 2012 - 03:38 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#587 Viking13

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:51 PM

I realised it was metaphoric, it's just that I can never resist selling my country.:-)...........As for being taken seriously I really don't care if they mean it or not, they commit it to print and help sad wee laddies like D J Bollocks to get some credibility. That in itself is bad enough.

Don't feel singled out by the way I admit I have not really seen your name as prevalent amongst these type of posts and so I apologise if I said or implied you were one of the "usual suspects."


Thank you for realizing that I'm not one driving the Raymond hate bus... LOL I honestly think if AV would use him where he's better suited he would be a far more effective player... It seems obvious to me that he would fit nicely on the third line as a checking winger along side Pahlsson and Hansen... If the intent is to make the third line a true checking line then I believe that is a role tailor made for him... Use him on one of the PK units and voila excellent use of minutes for him... I know it's easy to sit in the living room and be a coach or GM but for the life of me I fail to understand AV's reluctance to move Higgins back up to the second line and give them time to re-establish some chemistry... In December prior to Booth getting injured, they were well on their way to doing just that...
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Bush league fans have made Luongo the scapegoat for Vancouver's shortfall... Typical...

#588 Tearloch7

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:01 PM

Thank you for realizing that I'm not one driving the Raymond hate bus... LOL I honestly think if AV would use him where he's better suited he would be a far more effective player... It seems obvious to me that he would fit nicely on the third line as a checking winger along side Pahlsson and Hansen... If the intent is to make the third line a true checking line then I believe that is a role tailor made for him... Use him on one of the PK units and voila excellent use of minutes for him... I know it's easy to sit in the living room and be a coach or GM but for the life of me I fail to understand AV's reluctance to move Higgins back up to the second line and give them time to re-establish some chemistry... In December prior to Booth getting injured, they were well on their way to doing just that...


Right on .. Raymond switching places with Higgins makes so much sense that AV would hate the idea .. B)
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#589 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:10 PM

Higgins' name came up because you claimed he was struggling when the stats show that he's actually outproducing Raymond, atm.

As for calling you a hypocrite, I stand by my remarks. You slam Booth by calling him a nightmare and greedy, and fail to see things like the unselfish plays he made to set up Kesler for an absolutely glorious one-timer in the high slot in the Phoenix game and the unselfish dish to Kesler he made on a rush vs St. Louis last night. At the same time that you ignore all of the good things he does (like like puck protection/willingness to set screens/willingness to go to the dirty areas around the net and risk the punishment/drivin to the net with or without the puck and taking a defender with him which opens up space) you then voice displeasure with fans that ignore all of the good things that Raymond does.



Bodee is an old scottish fella without a clue unless your talking sheep shearing and haggis. dont take his words too seriously.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#590 Pride

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:36 PM

raymond most likely has lost his spot on the second line....what a shocker!
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#591 CanucksJay

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:38 PM

Future not looking too good for MayRay.

If production immediately goes up with Kassian on 2nd line, AV would look like a fool not to keep the line in tact.

Mayray and Weise taking turns as 13th forward in practice today...
We'll see what he's made of down this stretch.

I hope he continues to work hard and contribute in other ways(PK, checking role, etc)
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#592 Millerdraft

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

QUOTABLE, PART 2:“Mase is working real hard and trying real hard.” – Canuck coach Alain Vigneault on the slumping Mason Raymond, who had no shots, no hits, no takeways and no blocked shots in 13:07 of ice time against the Sabres. Vigneault put Kassian in Raymond's second-line spot for the third period.

Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz1oIDWN1cI


I doubt Raymond dresses next game (Dallas is a gritty team which means Raymond isn't a good fit for the 4th line).
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#593 Fell

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

Raymond will never get a fair shot unless he becomes a bonafide star. Fans and media blame him for Grabner, Tambellini, and now Hodgson. Some of those clowns probably wanted Wellwood over Raymond. Meanwhile Raymond works his butt off in any role asked of him. He's not the GM, he's just a player. He's also still a Canuck. I will continue to support him.


Funny thing is, Wellwood is actually on pace for a career year. 39 points in 64 games so far.
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#594 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:10 PM

I would be glad to see Mason sent down to the farm for ice time, conditioning, confidence,appreciation,that ice time on a Cup contender must be earned
Why not reward players who are doing good on the Farm (like we did last year), and reward them with some games?
Wasnt Schroeder similar to Coho?
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#595 bobopan

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

I had a nice little chuckle at the way AV talks about Raymond.. Talk about a guy which the coach obviously knows you gotta basically "baby talk" his confidence is so fragile. I don't know what you do with the guy, while i can't stand Raymond were likely going to need something out of him if we're to go on an extended run. I think he could be a serviceable 3rd liner and possible rotating guy depending on the type of series which isn't exactly a bad situation to be in as i seem to be saying this about a few guys.

I can't stand Botchford but he had one thing right today, this is the same player we saw last year before his injury... This is not a case of needing more time or conditioning.
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#596 Baggins

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:24 AM

As for calling you a hypocrite, I stand by my remarks. You slam Booth by calling him a nightmare and greedy, and fail to see things like the unselfish plays he made to set up Kesler for an absolutely glorious one-timer in the high slot in the Phoenix game and the unselfish dish to Kesler he made on a rush vs St. Louis last night. At the same time that you ignore all of the good things he does (like like puck protection/willingness to set screens/willingness to go to the dirty areas around the net and risk the punishment/drivin to the net with or without the puck and taking a defender with him which opens up space) you then voice displeasure with fans that ignore all of the good things that Raymond does.


So his limit is one pass per game? ::D

The truth is Booth tries to drive the net too often when it isn't there. The result is getting poke checked and turning over the puck. When you do the same thing over and over and over you become predictable and easier to defend against. It's something all three are guilty of on the second line. Two years back Ray/Kes/Sammy were all shooters but there were sure some pretty tic-tac-toe goals between the three of them. Despite being shooters they did pass to each other without being forced by the D. The current second line rarely sets those plays up. Most of the passing is on the cycle or to get out of trouble. There hasn't been much playmaking between the three. They're all playing a little too selfish.
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#597 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:19 AM

On the lighter side, what does Mike Singletary think about Rome and Raymond?



:P
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#598 Bodee

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

On the lighter side, what does Mike Singletary think about Rome and Raymond?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B1Xv41qZ3k

:P


Hardly appropriate in that we got to the final 7 games of the SC with both of them against the toughest teams in the league.
Rome unluckily was hooked for his infringement and Raymond was grubbed for his tenacity.

I stand to be corrected but there is an argument for reversing the statements made in that video and it would be more logical in the circumstances that actually took place.

Did we not suffer badly in game 7 from breakaway goals against the run of play as I recall. One of Raymond's talents is his ability to neutralise the rush with his speed and his checking game.

No, on the contrary we would have more of an argument for saying we would have won the SC with these two in the team. I know it spoils all you Raymond/Rome hater's fairytales but "facts is facts" as they say. Everything else is blowing smoke.
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#599 Primal Optimist

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:27 AM

no, not so much. he is the final upgrade this team needs. replace him please this offseason.

I am not a hater, not a bandwagoner...I have said consistently that he is fast, and decent, but he is not elite, and his hands never did catch up to his feet. Not strong enough to be bottom six, not elite enough to be top six on a contender. He is our current weakest link.
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#600 Primal Optimist

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

...... Raymond was grubbed for his tenacity.
...One of Raymond's talents is his ability to neutralise the rush with his speed and his checking game.
... I know it spoils all you Raymond/Rome hater's fairytales but "facts is facts" as they say. Everything else is blowing smoke.


I am not a hater, but I do find it funny when people lay out their opinion. Valid as anyone else's opinion, of course, but then claim that for some reason their version is a 'fact' while the opposing opinion is a fairytale...so in response to you, with "FACTS IS FACTS", I present the following...

On Tenacity: where did you see tenacity?
Mason Raymond 18th place out of the Canucks team in hits last year. Only two players with more than 30 games played had fewer hits last season: The Twins, back to back Art Ross Trophy winners.

22nd on the list for Canucks with Blocked shots last year..Only Daniel of the 'regular' players had fewer blocked shots than Mason.

10 penalty minutes all year. Where is this tenacity you speak of? I think what you are mistaking for Tenacity is his exuberant and speedy attempts to BE tenacious. He does not actually achieve a state of Tenacity however, he reminds me of a guy who is working very hard at looking like he is working very hard..with very little result.

Speed and Checking Game: neutralize the rush?

I will allow that Raymond had very few giveaways last year, but Tanner Glass and Chris Higgins had even less but his takeaways, which is what your statement implies are very high are only 10th best on the team...and its not just the stars or defensive specialists that are beating: its both! The only people really out of Raymonds class as far as takeaways go is Tambellini, Rome, and Ehrhoff and Ballard (*i am surprised to see that stat, but nonetheless there it is) He is not exactly breathtaking on that statistic..takeaways, when he is really only beating the worst four guys on the team last year by any substantial margin. Kesler and Bieksa, my two favorite guys for team attitude have almost twice as many takeaways as Mason...so i don't see how this leads to him being a neutralizer, with his speed.

Similarily 14th on the team in plus minus. 13 other guys were better five on five at shutting down the oponent, more than the opponent shut them down. Not exactly stellar to be in the bottom half and here even Tambellini and Ballard were better.

On Blowing smoke: puff puff pass dude...your bogarting all the good smoke!
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