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Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


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#61 poetica

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:43 PM

I support the team and was ecstatic when Raymond scored. As a Canucks fan, I don't care how they score. If every goal is off a d-man's butt, I will take it.

but the guy is right. Garret said like 3 times about how Raymond's shot was going wide and get a fortunate bounce of Stuart.

Raymond's heart and desire ins't the problem. I know the guy gives 100% every shift. The problem is what he actually brings to the table.

The fact is,he spent half the game last night on his hands and knees. (Seriously? How many times did he fall down?)

And then he took a poor shot that was missing the net from the half-boards which got a fortunate bounce.

As a fan we'll take it but at the same time, I think you'd be pretty naive to say that was his best game All Season because he scored a fluky goal.


No idea why you felt the need to put 2 unrelated quotes together to make it appear one was in response to mine when in fact it wasn't and then say that one (both?) was wrong instead of just posting your own comments to stand on their own, but ok...

If you'd actually read my post instead of assuming "naivity" on the part of anyone who doesn't agree with your obvious anti-Raymond stance you'll see that I didn't actually mention his goal at all, only said last night was the best game I've seen from him this season. And I stand by that. Lucky bounces/deflections are a part of the game and even a crappy shot is always better than none. And that goal perfectly illustates why. That being said, I don't get my opinions second hand and from what I saw I don't think it was going wide. It may not have had much chance of getting past Howard without the deflection, but again, that's part of the game and the very reason every team in the league knows to shoot at the net whenever they can because lucky deflections count just as much as pretty goals.

Raymond was all go last night and unlike previous games where he seemed unsure of where to go in anticipation of the play, last night he seemed far more sure of himself and far more confortable anticipating the play. He made several nice plays to take away a puck or hold up a player at center ice and he was active along the boards throughout almost the entire game.

But hey, if you don't think last night was his best game of the season which game do you think he played better in?

Edited by poetica, 03 February 2012 - 01:48 PM.

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Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#62 CanucksJay

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:58 PM

No idea why you felt the need to put 2 unrelated quotes together to make it appear one was in response to mine when in fact it wasn't and then say that one (both?) was wrong instead of just posting your own comments to stand on their own, but ok...

If you'd actually read my post instead of assuming "naivity" on the part of anyone who doesn't agree with your obvious anti-Raymond stance you'll see that I didn't actually mention his goal at all, only said last night was the best game I've seen from him this season. And I stand by that. Lucky bounces/deflections are a part of the game and even a crappy shot is always better than none. And that goal perfectly illustates why. That being said, I don't get my opinions second hand and from what I saw I don't think it was going wide. It may not have had much chance of getting past Howard without the deflection, but again, that's part of the game and the very reason every team in the league knows to shoot at the net whenever they can because lucky deflections count just as much as pretty goals.

Raymond was all go last night and unlike previous games where he seemed unsure of where to go in anticipation of the play, last night he seemed far more sure of himself and far more confortable anticipating the play. He made several nice plays to take away a puck or hold up a player at center ice and he was active along the boards throughout almost the entire game.

But hey, if you don't think last night was his best game of the season which game do you think he played better in?


I'm pretty sure his best game of the season was the 1st or 2nd game back from injury against Colorado.
That was when I was extremely surprised by his drive as he made the ballsy plays like planting his feet and driving to the net. Going after rebounds aggressively, etc

I just double checked and yep. Against Colarado, he scored 0 points BUT that was his best game because he was creating havoc in the offensive zone by doing the right things and going to the net.

If you have NHL vault, watch it. You'll know what I mean.

It's not about points. It's about style of play and that game is what I was hoping Raymond would do consistently. So despite not scoring that game, that kind of play occured in his first 9 games back where he tallied 7 pts.
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#63 CanucksJay

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:05 PM

I thought your opening post was bad, but congrats on unseating it.

Garret did say the shot was going two feet wide. Of course we all know that Cheech never exaggerates...I looked for a replay that showed the shot going wide, but it never came. The only thing that Garrett had right was that it hit the defender. Kind of like Kes' goal against the 'HawksBTW:

I don't know what game you were watching, but you obviously had your hater glasses on. Raymond did play well last night, with or without the tying goal. And he most certainly did not spend "half the game on his hands and knees".

Not only is this thread unoriginal, but it is inaccurate as well. Nice first post. You'll fit right in around here....


Obviously Half the game is an exaggeration but I would be quite certain to say that he fell down more than any other Canuck yesterday

Also Kes' goal against the hawks was from a prime location so defender or not, Kes has the ability to score from that shooting spot and we've seen it many times. Raymond's shot on the other hand, had ZERO chance of going in if it didnt hit the defender and changed directions. Did we even have a screen in front of the goalie? The guys took a wrister which was missing the net from the half wall with no screen.

The fact that you compare that to Kes' shot makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about

Edited by CanucksJay, 03 February 2012 - 02:09 PM.

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#64 poetica

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:17 PM

I'm pretty sure his best game of the season was the 1st or 2nd game back from injury against Colorado.
That was when I was extremely surprised by his drive as he made the ballsy plays like planting his feet and driving to the net. Going after rebounds aggressively, etc


Good. You have your opinion with valid reasons. And I have mine, which is equally valid from my point of view. So, we'll just have to disagree. But I think we can both agree that we'd like to see more of those kinds of games from Raymond.
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Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#65 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

Obviously Half the game is an exaggeration but I would be quite certain to say that he fell down more than any other Canuck yesterday

Also Kes' goal against the hawks was from a prime location so defender or not, Kes has the ability to score from that shooting spot and we've seen it many times. Raymond's shot on the other hand, had ZERO chance of going in if it didnt hit the defender and changed directions. Did we even have a screen in front of the goalie? The guys took a wrister which was missing the net from the half wall with no screen.

The fact that you compare that to Kes' shot makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about


Well one of us doesn't know what he's talking about. My guess is it's not the guy who's been playing, coaching and reffereeing for over 45 years...
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#66 CanucksJay

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

Well one of us doesn't know what he's talking about. My guess is it's not the guy who's been playing, coaching and reffereeing for over 45 years...


oooh nice resume there. Gotta love the reference to your personal life. As if that astounding history of your hockey endeavors actually means anything. (Especially when your assessment on Raymond is poor)

Fact is, Kesler has a better shot than Raymond and took it from the slot where he has a high percentage of scoring.

Raymond on the other hand (has a weaker shot than Kesler) and took a wrister from the half-wall with no screen which happened to bounce off a d-man's butt and in.

You compared the 2 shots like they were similar.

Fact is, you still have no clue.
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#67 CanucksJay

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:38 PM

Good. You have your opinion with valid reasons. And I have mine, which is equally valid from my point of view. So, we'll just have to disagree. But I think we can both agree that we'd like to see more of those kinds of games from Raymond.


I think thats a fair comment.

I'm not saying the Raymond is a detriment to the team. I'm just simply wondering if there can be an upgrade over him?

I would be ok if MG gave Raymond the Burrows treatment at the deadline and we signed him to a long term cheap contract that's fit for a 3rd line winger.

On the night of the trade deadline...

MG: Burr, we received some great offers for you and you are an impending FA. I feel like I have to trade you because we might not be able to afford you. Would you take 2m x 4 years to stay on this team?

Alex: Gimme the pen.


Same thing will probably happen to Raymond.

I wouldnt be surprised if he was traded but I wouldnt be surprised if he signed long term to a cheap contract
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#68 Scheiderfanforlife

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:09 PM

No we really dont.

Sorry but I have to say I dislike Raymond last night i thought he finally hit the net with a shot upon further review it was going the usual 3 feet wide and happend to bounce in. Yes Raymond brings speed and has potential and just had surgery and blah blah blah..
Regardless i still think he is not as great as alot of people make him out to be. He's had the same potential every year and really done nothing to improve on driveing to the net or geting in the dirty areas to score goals. He is a outside player and is hardly even effective at being that. I hope we dump him at trade deadline and get someone who will make our team better ex. a depth D men or a more efective grinding forward who can be strong on the puck and finish most of his chances unlike Raymond.
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#69 Bodee

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

you are rude Sir! watch the games
I'm just calling it as - I - see it


"he hates Coho"

You said he hated Hodgson, implying knowledge of a personal dislike. Where do you get off putting something like that on here. You may be justified in giving any opinion you like on what happens on the ice but you are NOT entitled to attack a player's team camaraderie unless you provide proof.

I say again, provide a source or retract it.

You may or may not be aware of the damage you do to a players reputation by stating some twisted personal opinion and proffering it as fact.
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#70 JPizzle

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:40 PM

"he hates Coho"

You said he hated Hodgson, implying knowledge of a personal dislike. Where do you get off putting something like that on here. You may be justified in giving any opinion you like on what happens on the ice but you are NOT entitled to attack a player's team camaraderie unless you provide proof.

I say again, provide a source or retract it.

You may or may not be aware of the damage you do to a players reputation by stating some twisted personal opinion and proffering it as fact.


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#71 JPizzle

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:47 PM

lol my opinion is gonna due harm to his reputation that's funny . I didn't mean he hates him literally. I was just saying that it really seems like he won't pass to Cody. There has been times the last hand full of games where it looks like Cody is open yet Mason doesn't pass.
Lighten up! This a discussion board , no need to get all agro
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#72 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

I do like his defensive abilities. This was evidenced by 2 GREAT back-checks in the Chicago game.
Is that all we need in a 3rd liner?

I disagree about the chemistry with Kesler. They are both shoot first guys and they dont use each other effectively.

I dont think he was our best forechecker in the playoffs. I thought there were many other guys ahead of him like Torres, Hansen, Lapierre without counting the stars like Kesler and Burrows.


Well you can always be better as a third liner or any liner I guess. I mean Tavares would look great with Hodgon out there. I think Raymond is excellent defensively which is the primary goal of the third. In other words their role isn't to score goals, so I think Raymond is capable of playing here and he can chip in offensively. Especially if he'd get on a role in the playoffs. Your third line besides being defensive wants to contribute whatever else it can to the team. Raymond also plays great on the PK, giving our top players a rest, and he plays on the second PP. His speed also kills in the playoffs. What I like about him is he plays his best hockey in the post season and plays tougher than he does all year to boot.

Regarding his chemistry with Kesler I was referring to when they are flying around out there. Sometimes they look untouchable ... until they get to the net and try to score. If you need to score goals to have chemisty then I guess I can concede that point. I think they understand each other but they both like to hold the puck a lot. When they use each other they look good.

If you think forechecing is about laying hard hits and smacking the boards then Torres and Hansen may be the best forecheckers we had. I think getting to the puck first and retaining it makes the best forechecker. I saw Raymond for the first time in my life consistently get to the puck first, STAY ON HIS FEET, and dish it out front. If Kes would scored on some of those he probably would have had another half dozen goals. Burrows I don't think really forechecks at all because the Sedins always carry the puck in. He is good along the boards but that's not really forechecking. Centers aren't usually the first guys in on the forecheck I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong. Lapierre I think probably gave him a run but in my mind but Raymond was absolutely spectacular in this department IMO. I was watching him so that's why I say that. He also played on a scoring line so got more forechecking opportunities.

Edited by Dogbyte, 03 February 2012 - 06:31 PM.

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#73 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Also

Actually I pointed out that he is a fast skater and is reliable defensively.

I think my assessment was pretty accurate. Is there something I missed?


For your "Raymond will" #s 1 and 2.

Why is this a bad thing? Passing to the D doesn't mean anything bad at all. It also is a matter of luck where his passes get blocked. He has pretty decent vision and I thought he made some pretty good passes in the Detroit game.

You simply cannot prove #2. You just can't.
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Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#74 Dogbyte

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Lucky goal defected off Detroit d-man's pants. During play-by-play, John Garrett said his shot would have missed the net by a foot and the d-man was trying to get out of the way but it deflected off him into the net.

CDC people say Raymond's shot always misses the net. Well this shot was another off target attermpt that got a lucky deflection.


The announcer was a total idiot. It was obvious he was trying to block the shot, not get out of the way. It bugged me, he muttered under his breat the 3 times after. "Or whatever he was doing". I think it was probably on net based on the announcers stupidity and that it was right in the middle of the net.

Edited by Dogbyte, 03 February 2012 - 06:30 PM.

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#75 Kack Zassian

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

A third liner who is producing at a top 6 rate, while playing a strong game defensively.

Sounds like a player every team would love to have...
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#76 Baggins

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:34 PM

raymond doesnt bring enough to the table for a third liner... and with hodgson and hansen playing the best hockey of their careers, i dont see why we need to keep this fast skating puck hog any longer. theres plenty of 3rd line players that could really gel with hodgson, hes already got a better shot and better hockey sense than raymond.. might as well put him with someone who can pass.

Hodgson 30 points in 51 games
Hansen 26 points in 51 games
Raymond 13 points in 26 games

So Raymond is producing about the same as two guys "playing the best hockey of their careers" without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury....yet he's not good enough for our third line? Sure.
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#77 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

he hates Coho , for some reason he never passes to him . He seems to always try to do it all himself in the offensive zone and then puts himself in a tough position , which leads to a turnover or a shot 5 miles off the net. Yes his back check is great but that's about it


I've noticed he never passes to Coho either unless he absolutely has to, makes me dislike him even more.
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#78 Wolfhard

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

Hodgson 30 points in 51 games
Hansen 26 points in 51 games
Raymond 13 points in 26 games

So Raymond is producing about the same as two guys "playing the best hockey of their careers" without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury....yet he's not good enough for our third line? Sure.

Now look at the past month...

Raymond, 2 goals and 5 points
Hansen, 2 goals and 6 points
Hodgson, 6 goals and 10 points

Hansen also brings similar speed, equal checking and a much more physical game to the table.
Hodgson with more goals than either of them have points, PLUS several clutch goals and a shootout goal, is in another league from those two, or even anyone aside from the Sedins right now.
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My stance on the Canucks;
- Schneider should not be traded. Luongo can be great, but is inconsistent. Schneider means more to us as a capable backup than what he could bring in a trade.
- We need toughness that can play. Top lines would be great, but I'll take it anywhere I can get it. As long as he doesn't hurt his line, I'm happy.
- We need a meaner net-clearing defenceman. Mobility is a plus.
- Ballard is a good player in a bad situation. He's not being used effectively. I believe he can succeed, but a move would be good for him too.
- Raymond is skilled, but needs to change his game or size to be more effective. Booth negates him in the top 6.
Read the above before attacking my comments, so you know where they're coming from. Once you've read, attack away if you please.

#79 Baggins

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:21 PM

Now look at the past month...

Raymond, 2 goals and 5 points
Hansen, 2 goals and 6 points
Hodgson, 6 goals and 10 points

Hansen also brings similar speed, equal checking and a much more physical game to the table.
Hodgson with more goals than either of them have points, PLUS several clutch goals and a shootout goal, is in another league from those two, or even anyone aside from the Sedins right now.

Did you miss this part...

"without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury."
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#80 Wolfhard

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:43 PM

Did you miss this part...

"without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury."

Hey, you brought up stats to prove a point. I rebutted with stats to prove my point.

The injury is no longer an excuse. He's in shape now and as healthy as he'll ever be. His game is right where it was before the injury anyways. I mean, it's not as if he was this elite player before, and we're waiting for him to round back into form. He's pretty much the same player now as he was before. He's here. We know what we have. We have a small, weak, undersized checking player who can seemingly chip in for 15-20 goals. Not a bad thing to have when you look at the stats, but a frustrating thing to watch when you see how many opportunities get squandered due to his selfish play and weakness on the puck.

If he was bigger, stronger, and used his linemates a bit better... Well... He'd be Kesler. THAT is why he's frustrating. He has all the tools, but just lacks the final few pieces to tie it all together.
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My stance on the Canucks;
- Schneider should not be traded. Luongo can be great, but is inconsistent. Schneider means more to us as a capable backup than what he could bring in a trade.
- We need toughness that can play. Top lines would be great, but I'll take it anywhere I can get it. As long as he doesn't hurt his line, I'm happy.
- We need a meaner net-clearing defenceman. Mobility is a plus.
- Ballard is a good player in a bad situation. He's not being used effectively. I believe he can succeed, but a move would be good for him too.
- Raymond is skilled, but needs to change his game or size to be more effective. Booth negates him in the top 6.
Read the above before attacking my comments, so you know where they're coming from. Once you've read, attack away if you please.

#81 riffraff

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

Did you miss this part...

"without the benefit of offseason training, training camp, preseason and the first 25 games of the season while coming back from a serious injury."

Hey, you brought up stats to prove a point. I rebutted with stats to prove my point.

The injury is no longer an excuse. He's in shape now and as healthy as he'll ever be. His game is right where it was before the injury anyways. I mean, it's not as if he was this elite player before, and we're waiting for him to round back into form. He's pretty much the same player now as he was before. He's here. We know what we have. We have a small, weak, undersized checking player who can seemingly chip in for 15-20 goals. Not a bad thing to have when you look at the stats, but a frustrating thing to watch when you see how many opportunities get squandered due to his selfish play and weakness on the puck.

If he was bigger, stronger, and used his linemates a bit better... Well... He'd be Kesler. THAT is why he's frustrating. He has all the tools, but just lacks the final few pieces to tie it all together.


zing.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#82 ultimike

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:31 PM

bring back the MINUS sign ppplllllzzzzz!!
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#83 Perfect From Now On

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:56 PM

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#84 Pride

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 01:57 AM

the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him
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#85 Scoobydooby

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:11 AM

the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him


I cant say I necessarily agree with your delivery, but I also cant say youre wrong.

i have nothing against raymond.. im just tired of all the missed chances and all the excuses people make for him.. mayray is just not the evolutionary player that people though he would become.. theres nothing wrong with that. people need to understand and be content with what he brings and if they are not then replace him with someone that they think can do better..
right now hes fine.. hes able to slot in when higgins is down and offers speed and defensive soundness.. thats it, thats all. hes provem he is not an adept scorer, hitter or checker. he is what he is..

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#86 Baggins

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:59 AM

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Hey, you brought up stats to prove a point. I rebutted with stats to prove my point.

The injury is no longer an excuse. He's in shape now and as healthy as he'll ever be. His game is right where it was before the injury anyways. I mean, it's not as if he was this elite player before, and we're waiting for him to round back into form. He's pretty much the same player now as he was before. He's here. We know what we have. We have a small, weak, undersized checking player who can seemingly chip in for 15-20 goals. Not a bad thing to have when you look at the stats, but a frustrating thing to watch when you see how many opportunities get squandered due to his selfish play and weakness on the puck.

If he was bigger, stronger, and used his linemates a bit better... Well... He'd be Kesler. THAT is why he's frustrating. He has all the tools, but just lacks the final few pieces to tie it all together.

Prorating his numbers from last year to the 82 games he played in 09/10.

POINTS
Even strength:
09/10 - 35
10/11 - 37

PP:
09/10 - 18
10/11 - 7

Total points:
09/10 - 53
10/11 - 45.7

AVERAGE ICE TIME PER GAME
Even strength:
09/10 - 13:41
10/11 - 13:21

PP:
09/10 - 2:04
10/11 - 1:22

Total:
09/10 - 17:19
10/11 - 15:47


Do you see the differences? Even strength he was actually on pace to exceed his 09/10 season. The drop in production came on the PP, but that was to be expected. His PP time dropped by about 33% in large part because the 2nd unit didn't get on the ice as often.

Now consider these two tidbits:

1 - Raymond suffered three injuries last season (sprained wrist, broken thumb, shoulder) all of which would have affected shooting and passing. Yet he was on pace to exceed his previous seasons even strength production. Explain that one.

2 - Kesler was moved to the 1st PP unit and was replaced by Malhotra. That's replacing a 70+ point center with a 25 point center. Combined with 33% less PP time, how could any logical being expect Raymond to even come close to his previous years PP production even if you ignore the shot affecting injuries.

You can't just look at point totals and make an assumption. You have to look at all the numbers and take into consideration circumstance that will have an impact. Considering those circumstances I think it's amazing that his point pace only dropped 7.3 points over an 82 game season from the previous year. Last year the average second line winger produced 44 points. Which is what Raymond was on pace for with less PP time and without Kesler on that second unit.

Honestly, I was more critical of Raymond in 09/10 than 10/11 largely because of his defensive play. Last year I wasn't critical of him at all. His defensive play took a leap last year while under the circumstances (injuries and PP) I expected a loss of production.

The truth is Raymond is nowhere near as bad as people make out. Those 40-50 point players tend to be streaky. That's the reality. Raymond may well be part of a trade. I for one won't be disappointed if he isn't. He provides offensive depth and defensive responsibilty. But I won't be broken hearted if he is part of a trade either.

On to this years stats. I went through the last 20 games and Hodgson had 15 points to Raymonds 10 points. But 5 of Hodgsons points have come on the PP where Raymond has seen little playing time in the last 20 games. Which means even strength Hodgson has 10 points to Raymonds 10 points in that period. Is that actually bad considering how far ahead physically Hodgson is in comparison to Raymond in that time? One more stat of note: Hodgson has one 2 goal game this season coming January 21st against San Jose. Raymond was first assist on both of them. Selfish biatch that he is. In fact all four out of five of Raymonds assists in that time have been first assists. While of Hodgsons 7 assists only 3 were first assists with two of those coming on the PP. Also 5 of Raymonds points came in the first ten games and five in the last ten games. So much fior inconsistant.

BTW, Hodgson is listed as 6' 185 lbs. The same height and weight as Raymond. Wouldn't that make him weak and undersized as well?


I'll say it again, Raymond is nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's simply gone from "Everybody Loves Raymond" to "Everybodies Whipping Boy". One thing I've learned in my years on this board is there always has to be a primary whipping boy and a couple of secondary. And typically the criticism is simplistic and grossly exagerated.
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#87 leftwinglockdown

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:14 AM

I'll say it again, Raymond is nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's simply gone from "Everybody Loves Raymond" to "Everybodies Whipping Boy". One thing I've learned in my years on this board is there always has to be a primary whipping boy and a couple of secondary. And typically the criticism is simplistic and grossly exagerated.


Excellent post. Whipping boy is right. Hansen hasn't scored in 7 games, Higgins has been cold even though he gets tons of chances when he's in the lineup yet no one seems to be calling them out. Raymond has always been a streaky player but he has not regressed like some have presumed even with his removal off the 2nd PP unit. People seem to only see what they choose to see and that is magnified by the joke of a media that Vancouver has.
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#88 Bodee

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

the whole "Give him time!" argument is complete garbage. the guy is not exactly a young prospect anymore and he has hit his ceiling.

raymond is a waste of space and i cant wait until we get rid of him


You need to find another sport sir and preferably another team. You debase yourself with a comment like that but worse still, you show you don't understand the game.
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#89 Bodee

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

lol my opinion is gonna due harm to his reputation that's funny . I didn't mean he hates him literally. I was just saying that it really seems like he won't pass to Cody. There has been times the last hand full of games where it looks like Cody is open yet Mason doesn't pass.
Lighten up! This a discussion board , no need to get all agro


Here's a tip then. Prefix your comment with imo (in my opinion)
By the way do you watch Kesler and Booth............Raymond is no worse and probably better when it comes to parting with/passing the puck. Open your eyes and try not to let your bias murder the facts.
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#90 Rodzilla131

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:17 AM

no surprise raymond has gotten weaker as the season goes on....

David Booth may spell the end of Mason Raymond on the Canucks, and that's a good thing.

Mason Raymond = speed, a nice shot, slight, perimeter player, non hitter, good PK
David Booth = speed, nice shot, good size, will go to the net, will hit.

But what might not be known, is that Raymond has only had brief spurts with numbers anywhere near 2nd line production, and has a habit of declining as the season progresses and the checking gets tighter.

Raymond, now 26, has had 3 full seasons with the Canucks. His quarterly Points-per-Game avg.

2008-09 - 1st) 0.50 2nd) 0.43 3rd) 0.07 4th) 0.18

2009-10 - 1st) 0.50 2nd) 0.90 3rd) 0.71 4th) 0.45

2010-11 - 1st) 0.60 2nd) 0.90 3rd) 0.48 4th) 0.42

as you can see, he fades every year, and in only 4 of 12 quarters does he produce at 0.60 avg (49 pts in a full season) which has to be at the very low end of a 2nd line scorer, especially on a high scoring team.

His playoffs aren't exactly sparkling either.....

with Booth, Higgins, Hansen and possibly Hodgson ahead of him on A.V.'s winger depth chart for the 2nd and 3rd lines, it might only be injury that gets Raymond back on the second line.
And does anyone think Raymond, with his penchant for staying out of the dirty areas, and not punishing anybody on the ice, combined with lackluster production, really an A.V. type of player?

Good luck with the back Raymond, you've got some work to do when you get healthy.

http://twopigsnuckin...on-raymond.html....
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