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Michael Gillis is grossly overrated


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#151 goblix

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:00 PM

I concede that Hamhuis is a good signing, but he did it while offering a ridiculous $1.5M contract offer to Willie Mitchell, the horse. He unfortunately suffered a concussion while playing like a warrior, and they treated him like sh*t. Could've at least helped contain some of the bad Bruins in the playoffs. Now, that role belongs to Andrew Alberts, which is scary to say the least.


At the point of negotiating contracts with Willie Mitchell it was uncertain if he'd be over the concussion at all or what his actual health was, Overall a one year deal definitely made sense to me.

I believe he signed his contract with Tampa halfway in August well after the free-agent frenzy (not 100% sure on that though)
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#152 wasteofskin

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

man vs. wild?




\
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Religious death, I instigate
From what the bible demonstrates
Does it document creation
Of this hopeless infliction
Of a godless heretic
Not a god-fearing lunatic
That's why it's become my obsession
To treat God like an infection

#153 messiers_elbow

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

I'd give him an 8.5 so far in his tenure. Id give Howson a 2 for example. But im willing to shell out a 9 if he impresses me with the Shnieder trade.


Pluses. Team culture.Rre-upped the Sedins and Kesler for discounts. White for Ehrhoff lol .. Got Humhuis. Picked Hodgson instead of Beach thank the gods.

Cons. Got Ballard for 2 first round picks basically. Sundin at 10 million for two years. Would have ruined our team most likely. Unless he knew he would only play the one year and that was for publicity or something. Strum? wtf
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#154 Teen Icarus

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

What people don't realize is that we had the 10 million in cap space when we signed the Sedins. We could actually afford Sundin. He was the best player available, and we had cap space. Despite not producing a ton up front, the Sedins, Burrows, and Kesler all scored significantly more after he arrived.
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#155 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

- Don't know how you consider Lou and Bieksa an over payment? - sure, he trades for some over paid players...but that's because he can pick some of them up for less than their real value. He also has many core players signing for less giving him the luxury to do so... - every team has issues picking up certain components for their team... it's supply vs demand. We had an issue regarding a top 6 last year...he addressed it this year. But, we don't know what other issues he dealt with prior to Booth. There are too many factors involved to say that it is MG's fault... maybe the other team wants too much? maybe the other team doesn't want to make Van better? multiple teams offering for the same player... etc. btw, the Booth deal was a steal and I don't mind if MG decides to show a little patience if he can do another trade like that.- he is not MG of the people of BC or the fans of the Nucks. His only concern is the team and organization and if he only wants to focus on them and make them his only priority, that's his decision. If he doesn't want to let his opponents know what's happening, by ignoring the media, his choice, but this doesn't make him a bad GM. - How is he slowly ruining our future? no basis for this.- seems afraid to admit when he's wrong? Sturm comes to mind, he was wrong in acquiring him and let him go immediately.... should he have done something after Sturms first game?Your list for pros I can agree with, but your cons... your reaching.


When I made my list I tried to include what most say about everything.

The Luongo contract is just too long, cap hit is fine.

I decided to put Bieksa on the list because he comes with a big IF. His consistency is why I listed him. His market value that season was very high but he really isn't worth nearly 5 million for a full season (taking in consideration other d-men that have good/bad contracts).

As for media, I decided to put that down for CDC... (if he was like Burke maybe this place would calm down, I really don't care if he talks or not, like you).

I believe he is slowly ruined the future because after a while every great team goes into a depression (unless we are the Red Wings). It doesn't mean we will become the next Oilers or the Flames but we could miss the playoffs after our core is past their prime (if Gillis decides to trade our core when they are older, Sedins, Kesler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Burrows we might be okay. Hodgson is our only bright spot so far (Schneider will be traded... unlikely Luongo is going to be sent packing). We have a boat load of prospects but they all come with a big question mark like all prospects do (yes, even Tanev though I think he will be a regular next year). Basically we might be heading towards some 80-90 point seasons after 2015/2016. Nothing wrong with a few "rebuilding" years but it's very unlikely that we will stay amongst the elite like the Wings have (Colorado and Dallas are the perfect examples). Ignore their ownership issues. I think that this might make you think :picard: but I don't think our franchise (with our luck) can stay as one of the best for more than 5 if not 10 years (I believe the Wings have made the playoffs more than 20 times in a row, or they are really close to that feat). I used the Wings as they are MG's model team.

For the last point. Sturm is a good counterexample, but he doesn't seem to admit it. It was a mistake to sign Sturm (I don't think any other GM would have signed him that early, especially on July 1st for that type of money. Getting Booth is good and all but it still wasn't a part of Gillis' plan. He had to make a move because he looked like an idiot messing up our cap with a useless player. We basically traded Booth for Sturm straight up. Reinpecht was a throw-in as they took on Sturm.

As long as Gillis brings us a cup, we'll all be happy :towel: When next season starts however........... it'll be a bunch of :picard:
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#156 Ryan Strome

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:23 PM

Oh wait so we have one of the best goalies in the league for 12 years(he will most likely not play those last few years) for an extremely good cap hit, mea while the cap continues to go up making the contract even more of a steal. Im not seeing the bad in this contract... Besides both parties have an outclause halfway through the contract of one or the other isn't happy. So please enlighten me on how this is a bad contract. May i remind you if the term was 5 years we would probably have a goalie with an 8+ M a year cap hit, resulting in having less money to sign other depth players that make this team so good.

People need to shut up and stop complaining about luongos contract.


Actually no one needs to "shut up" because you say so. I simply stated the contract is to long. MG has spoke out against these very contracts numerous times. On to you saying he likely will retire before the contract ends, well thats speculation on your part which kinda makes it a moot point, don't you think?

Finally there is no quarantee the cap will keep going up, infact owners want it to come down. Now I don't agree with the op, but I also don't agree with the contract MG gave Luongo. You sir should also make a proper arguement, rather then having your facts based on speculation and your own opinion.

I do think Gillis has done a good to great job, but some on here make him out to be the greatest g.m ever, while not recognizing some mistakes he has made, which all g.m's do.Some only look at the good deals and trades but not the bad ones while making their arguement, namely you. But to be fair the op is doing the exact same thing.

Cheers.

Edited by Ryan Strome, 05 February 2012 - 09:31 PM.

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#157 keslerian one

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

I am thinking that this thread isn't worth replying to as I am writing to point that out.
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#158 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.


Gillis is overrated by alot of fans and the media for sure. I do think he was a huge improvement over Nonis though. Gillis has made some great signings/Trades:

- Samulesson: he was great the first two seasons as a Canuck and with a low cap hit

- Ehrhoff: Great signing, even smarter when he rejected his agents demands, Ehrhoff had no heart in the playoffs

- Malhotra: a great signing for cheap ( before the eye injury )

Lapierre: Another cheap effective player that jumped right into the line-up as if he had been there all along

Then more recently Higgens and Booth, who have both looked great. The good definately far outweigh the bad with Gillis' performance so far. I will be disappointed if he trades Schneider this season because I think they need him for depth in the playoffs. I'd prefer if he waited to package him with Raymond next season in a deal.
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#159 Ryan Strome

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

Gillis is overrated by alot of fans and the media for sure. I do think he was a huge improvement over Nonis though. Gillis has made some great signings/Trades:

- Samulesson: he was great the first two seasons as a Canuck and with a low cap hit

- Ehrhoff: Great signing, even smarter when he rejected his agents demands, Ehrhoff had no heart in the playoffs

- Malhotra: a great signing for cheap ( before the eye injury )

Lapierre: Another cheap effective player that jumped right into the line-up as if he had been there all along

Then more recently Higgens and Booth, who have both looked great. The good definately far outweigh the bad with Gillis' performance so far. I will be disappointed if he trades Schneider this season because I think they need him for depth in the playoffs. I'd prefer if he waited to package him with Raymond next season in a deal.


He never signed Hoff. He traded for him as San Jose had to dump cap. It was however a good trade that Gillis made.
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#160 Bleedgreen&blue

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:10 PM

Say what you want about the contracts but you can't really be upset with the cap hits they give. Sure Luongo's deal is long but he only counts 5mil against the cap. If Kesler, Burrows, or the Sedins hit the open market do you not think they'd get more then what MG gave them to stay in Vancouver. He did sit back and brilliantly wait for Hamhuis to come to him. Also sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. I remember a few years ago when everyone on these forums were screaming for MG to trade Bieksa and a high draft pick for Mike Fisher. Would you make that trade now? We also have young talent like CoHo, Lack, Schroeder, and Tanev either already playing for us or will be in the near future. He may not be the god that some claim him to be but he is one of the better GM's in the league.
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#161 MashedBananas

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:15 PM

OK....um....Gillis Retained the Sedin's, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Brought in Hamhuis, Booth (he's been great btw), Higgins, Lappy, Ehrhoff, and even Malhotra. Sundin, while overpaid, seriously helped this team, Don't you dare say anything about Pavol, and Ballard is getting better. BTW Luongo is the best goalie we ever had. Cory is amazing, but Lu is better, and would you rather have Marc Chouinard, or Aaron Miller?
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#162 samurai

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.


And what great things have you done with your life?
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#163 asdfman

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:25 PM

I guess it was the work of a random magician when we got to game 7 of the finals :frantic:
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#164 Kesheniel

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.


Hamhuis, Lapierre, Wiese and Higgins?
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#165 crazyforhockey

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:46 PM

realize MG biggest talent ....getting to the core of what the teams needs to be successful..... one of the keys that MG realized and targeted...in his first go...... FO's we were 24th in the league.. he realized you needed to have puck possesion in the new nhl

he gets. ryan johnson,demitra and sundin...........besides their other abilities.... our FO's went to 5 th overall

as for Sundin... here we had Henrik as a top center..... but we were weak in the number two......morrison,,,,kes was our #3 guy shutdown man...played more than morrison...". anyzways when you looked at availiable centerman... there wasnt much choice unless you look at resigning ( injured at the time?) BMO.....was the best choice unless you wanted to trade away core peices or try to hit a homerun with an elite center in sundin( and he was solid at FO's too)

FO's were turned around....he focused on more balanced scoring and a PP that was 18th before he showed up 17 th the first year
Made the ehrhoff trade and Sammuelsson....with the peices we reached 6th overall.... pp was good now

but our PK was dreadful 18th overall and worst in playoffs.... and the main reason LA hung around.... and the main reason Chi was able to beat us....we outscored chi 2-1 evenstrength but lost the pk battle.....chi outscored us 2-1 in special teams

enter malholtra, hamhuis,ballard.......... and later higgins,lapierre to soldify our FO's ,center depth but more importantly our PK brought it to 2nd overall


see the overview.....year one fix FO's. check ......year two fix PP check..... year three fix PK....... year four depth on 2nd line booth and resign higgins.................. AND add the following piece at________ and_________ at trade deadline


so beyond the players brought in.. there was a bigger picture wanting to be achieved .... this year is filling the gap that is missing from getting that one extra win............... probably size up front and a solid dman
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#166 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:47 PM

Gillis' drafting unit has done well so far too
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#167 Ryan Strome

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

Gillis' drafting unit has done well so far too


See, this just really hasn't been proven, apart from CoHo.
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#168 Watermelons

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:59 PM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.


I guess it didn't hurt to lose Hamhuis in the finals....

Oh wait.

And Sundin also played no part in Kesler's development,
It was just a coincidence that Kesler, who had a career high of 37 points, scored 59 points the year Sundin came and then had 70+ points the next two seasons...
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#169 Bananas

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:00 PM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.



This mindless drivel is a +15?! I think your inept opinion is grossly overrated...
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Hey CDC! Remember this!?

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#170 darnucks

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

Hamhuis?

You can also throw in the names of Lapierre and Higgins
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#171 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

The only mistake MG has made in his tenure here was trading Grabner for Ballard, but his thought process made perfect sense at the time (although I didn't agree with it): he projected Raymond to be a future 60-point 2nd line player and felt Grabner was expendable, so traded him for something our team desperately needed, a solid top-4 defenceman who is rarely injured.

What he didn't predict was how defencemen playing in low-pressure situations like in Phoenix and Florida usually struggle with higher expectations like in Vancouver (see Bouwmeester and Kaberle). Basically, a defenceman playing lots of minutes on a very bad team isn't necessarily a good defenceman on a great, deep team. This is more the scouts fault than MG's, because its the scouts responsibility to watch the games and decide how well the invididual is playing. They did a good job with Hamhuis, possibly because he was so close to us in the West, but we didn't get a very good scouting report on Ballard and as a result he has struggled.

That being said, Ballard isn't that much of a bust, I'm just disappointed we had to trade Grabner instead of Raymond, who I always felt was a premier sniper in this league. Nevertheless, everything else MG has done for this team has been directly to aid a fault in our team and has paid huge dividends. MG > God.
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#172 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:27 AM

This guy is grossly overrated.

He has come up with bad contracts after bad contracts.

Overpaying Ballard, Booth, Sundin (thank goodness he did not take the 2-year $20mil contract), Demitra (RIP), and Luongo. These are good players, but definitely not at the salary that they are making. Now they are really stuck with Luongo, an older goalie with more and more mileage. This guy was overused in Florida, and you just don't see him playing at the same level 2 or 3 years down the road. This situation has caused the whole Schneider thing. Schneider looks like a young solid number one that could carry the Canucks into the next decade. He has solid moves, unlike the Sieve Cloutier. He's a calming presence. Because of the no-trade clause to Luongo, Schneider has to be moved.

People defend Gillis and say that he had got the Canucks into the finals. The main pieces, i.e. Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Burrows were all pieces from the past regimes. The only guy that Gillis could truly claim to be a valuable asset was ehrhoff.

Gillis is really sacrifing the future of the team for immediate gains. It's really sad to see.



By your own admission all of these great players were brought in before Gillis. Yet I dont recall the Canucks getting to the finals with these same players before Gillis, do you? In fact they couldnt get past the 2nd round.

Gillis has come in and done what needed to be done. He saw the issue with our blue line always being depleted because of injury so he went out and made sure it wouldnt be an issue. You can easily sit there it your high chair and knock Gillis for Ballards contract, but the fact is Gillis did not make that contract. Ballard and his contract were acquired in a trade. On top of that who could know that Ballard would under perform to the level he has? Are you trying to say you did?

Gillis managed to bring in Samuelsson, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Malhotra, Lapierre, Booth and Ballard.
When the team needed defence he went and got the best free agents available. When they needed another center he got Malhotra (its no coincidence Kesler emergence as a star happened to come when the defensive specialist arrived). This city was clamoring for a big body to play next to Kesler, he went and got Booth for some spare parts.
He also resigned Kesler, Burrows (4 year, 8 million.contract), negotiated the deal with the Sedins (a steal a 6 mil per) and got Schnieder signed to his current contract.

This team couldnt cut it before Gillis came in.The core might have already been here but he kept it intact and at a very managable Cap hit. He also brought in the depth, and that is what got us to the finals.

GM's are not psychics. They make mistakes, all of them. But Gillis has made far more good moves than bad ones, and at least he has made moves to address the issues that this team has had. So yes he inherited some great talent, but what exactly did Nonis manage to do with it?
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#173 Scoobydooby

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:24 AM

such a brutal op.. dont need to say anything as much has already been said in 9 pages, but seriously, MG has done a terrific job.. hes said that he will always do what he thinks is best for the team.. a team that has brought in new players that have helped our team to become one of the top 3 teams in the nhl and keep them there.

he may not be perfect but hes been very good for this hockey club.. just another example of people who dont know or see how good they have it..

Edited by Scoobydooby, 06 February 2012 - 01:26 AM.

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#174 Laoag

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:31 AM

Sorry man, but you are also forgetting the signing of torres last year and the acquisition of lappy and higgy at the trade deadline. With out these guys I dont think we make the finals.

Plus sometimes the best things a GM can do is to stay put. He could have given up on hodgson, traded cory for next to nothing. He kept Bieksa when everyone was calling for a trade at the beginning of last season.

Gillis has also created a team and environment players want to come too. players take less money to come here, and take less money to stay here.

Sorry OP, if the minus was still in use i would gladly give you one.
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#175 Spoderman

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:57 AM

Lemieux, do we really want him?
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Credit to BananaMash for both

STHS GM Anaheim Ducks

#176 Tearloch7

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:00 AM

Lemieux, do we really want him?


Nor need such a narrow perspective .. :P
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#177 SeaThunderbirds

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:02 AM

Wait MG gave Booth his current contract? lol
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#178 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:42 AM

Booth is a fine player! What the hell get the hell outta here Lemiuex, go to the OIlers forum or something.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#179 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

Ironically, Mario Lemieux is one of the most over-rated players of all time.


Mr. Oldnews, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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#180 oldnews

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:49 AM

Mr. Oldnews, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.



Ahahaha!! You should have given me a minus - as a tribute to Mario = Floater = Cherry-picker!
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