beer&meat Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 As much as i love Kes this aint a knock on him, just illustrating the offensive prowess of CoHo Ryan Kesler has 19 goals in 58 games or .32 goals per game. He also Averages just over 20 TOI per game with a total of 1,163:10 Minutes on the ice this season. Averaging 1 goal for every 61 minutes of ice time. Not to mention averaging 3.26 TOI of PP time/gm with 7 of his goals coming on the PP, playing with Hank and Dank. Coho has 16 goals in 63 games or .25 goals per game. He averaged just 12.43 TOI per game with a total of 801:56 Minutes of ice time averaging 1 goal for every 50 minutes of ice time. CoHo played 1:50 TOI of PP time and had a remarkable 5 ppg, in limited time without the sedins. Info used from: Cody Hodgson this year is a much more efficient goal scorer than Kes. Obviously Kes brings incredible intangibles to the game but loosing this kind of offense to you lineup cannot be understated. I completely understand that sometime hard decisions have to be made, but trading away this stud, for an unproven guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf44 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Just doesn't make sense why Hodgson was traded. MG never overpays, or gives proven NHLers for prospects, which Kassian is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Påhlsson Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Cody Hodgson Rationale CDC 2011 Trade Hodgson AV Won't Give Him a Chance CDC 2012 Never Trade Hodgson Next Yzerman Etc.. 2011 Stanley Cups Playoffs (Max Lapierre was our third line center for most of the playoffs) -But we couldn't score in the finals!!! (More then half our secondary scoring was injured) 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs (Only Pahlsson and Lapierre on for third line center WTF!!!) -Zzz we pick up a fourth line plug like Kassian to replace Hodgson's production wow. -Kassian is clearly just a plug and Hodgson is obviously gonna have a way better career CAM NEELY ALL OVER AGAIN OMGAWD Cause there is zero chance Kassian turns into Cam Neely and Hodgson turns into a dud. WOW MG only got our team to the Stanley Cup final our scouting staff is terrible we've only picked up under the radar players like Chris Tanev and Eddie Lack. Assumptions... Cody would have provided third line scoring in the playoffs. Cody wouldn't have been out muscled in the playoffs by bigger third line centers. (Nick Foligno) Cody scored one goal against Tim Thomas so clearly he is Thomas' weakness. Cody is looking like the next Henrik Sedin Kassian was just a grinder on Buffalo Kassian and Lucic comparisons are obssured (Lucic = 6pts and Kassian = 7pts in first 27 nhl games) Both have memorial cups and play similar styles. AV will ruin Kassian he is a terrible coach we were supposed to be rebuilding when Gillis got here and now Gillis and AV have made us Stanley Cup contenders. If we don't win the cup then the trade was clearly a loss because it's not like Kassian isn't still developing and can't be a huge impact player for us in the future. We could have gotten more for Cody Hodgson I acquired Steven Stamkos for him in NHL12 I love rationale's P.S. I'm still a fan of Cody Hodgson but some people here are insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 After going through the COHO and Kassian threads the dominant rationale among the crowd that likes this trade to bring in Kassian is that he brings an element of "toughness" to the line-up that we didn't previously have, and that COHO didn't have a spot behind Kes and Hank moving into the future. Fair enough COHO ain't exact 6,3 230! However i think these arguments are in many ways flawed. The leading hitter on the Canucks is Lappy. He has 178 hits in 63 games. or 2.83 hits per game, averaging just over 11 TOI per game. He also has 7 fighting majors, scrapping in just over 11% of all games this year. He has 118PIM averaging 1.87pim/gm Zach Kassian on the other hand has 39 hits in 27 games or 1.44 hits per game, averaging 12 TOI per game, he has 2 fighting majors, fighting just 7.5% of all games this year and has accumulated 20PIM averaging 0.74PIM/gm Info used from: http://espn.go.com/n...lties/count/121 I understand that fighting, hits, and PIM, don't mean 'toughness', but a direct correlation of how you play the game can be deduced. Also, Lappy was acquired for a 3rd round pick Kassian was acquired for well... you know To finish this point, toughness does not have to be acquired by trading your rookie of the year candidate, and IMO a point-a-game player in a couple years. Travis Moen for 2nd round Pick? Raymond for Moen straight up? Other ways to acquire this much desired toughness! Second argument: "CoHo has Nowhere to play behind Kes and Dan, and will always have a limited role, with limited Ice time". Cant the theory of having Schneids for Luo, be applied for having Coho as inexpensive insurance policy of sorts, god forbid injury to Kes or Dan. A guy to step into a top 6 role at the drop of the hat? Ask Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin and Stall how that's working out. I also feel like people don't truly understand the Loss of offensive Production with CoHo gone. As much as i love Kes this aint a knock on him, just illustrating the offensive prowess of CoHo Ryan Kesler has 19 goals in 58 games or .32 goals per game. He also Averages just over 20 TOI per game with a total of 1,163:10 Minutes on the ice this season. Averaging 1 goal for every 61 minutes of ice time. Not to mention averaging 3.26 TOI of PP time/gm with 7 of his goals coming on the PP, playing with Hank and Dank. Coho has 16 goals in 63 games or .25 goals per game. He averaged just 12.43 TOI per game with a total of 801:56 Minutes of ice time averaging 1 goal for every 50 minutes of ice time. CoHo played 1:50 TOI of PP time and had a remarkable 5 ppg, in limited time without the sedins. Info used from: http://www.nhl.com/i...wName=timeOnIce Cody Hodgson this year is a much more efficient goal scorer than Kes. Obviously Kes brings incredible intangibles to the game but loosing this kind of offense to you lineup cannot be understated. I completely understand that sometime hard decisions have to be made, but trading away this stud, for an unproven guy who has 3 career NHL goals stings a little. Obviously stats can be deceiving but they help gain a better understanding of what a player brings to the table. Hopefully GMMG proves me wrong and we can laugh at this, like the "get rid of burrows thread from 2008" when Kassian is lighting it up as the Canucks version of "Lucic 2.0!" But for right now this one just stings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeneir Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I mean for a few high picks and mason raymond...Im pretty damn sure you can get a guy like Dustin Brown, or Travis Moen..... if Kassian goes down, what he brings, grit, .... Stall, Crosby Malkin, or how about Toews, Versteeg, Bolland, Ladd or most recently Bergeron, Seguin, Krecji, all centres on the same team, all have Stanley cup rings. ... while Mason Raymond got evcery chance in the planet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebeaun Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Does that mean Cody had to be traded, maybe not and maybe not right now. But I belieive eventually he would have gotten his way at the expense of others (kesler) or been moved. Team chemistry in a sport like hockey where they are literally a family can make or break a team. (Buffalo for example, all the pieces were there for a good team) I don't believe Cody's group would ever put the team first in Vancouver at their own expense. In Buffalo he get's a bigger role and ice time, therfore, he can say and do all the right things. That is if things go his way. Is he going to be a good hockey player, most likely. Is he going to be a great hockey player, maybe. Is he going to be a great teammate, who knows. Time will tell. In any event, I believe whether it was a an even player trade or not might be only part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacdeesSnipinGs Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Thanks for pointing me to your thread, good read. You lost me with your second arguement though, you really didn't give a solution to the problem. What do we do with Hodgson? I read some stats and THINK! you suggested we should have traded Kesler to open up the second line center position? 2 big bodies with decent hands, defensive depth + SC veteran experience > CoHo (For what we needed to make this team tougher to play against THIS year) Your comparison to the Luongo / Ginger situation really cannot be argued as Cory will not be a Canuck for another year, which makes the situation the same in respects to players not "fitting" All this hate i for Kassian is really unfair to him, he's not taking CoHo's spot Sami is. I get it though, people feel the Canucks should have gotten more for Coho. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" truley fits in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildwood Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If the Canucks win the Stanley Cup this year. Everyone will be saying Cody Who? Or Cody Schmody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onions Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Firstly, it is very interesting how people call each other names at the begining of their argument. This, in my opinion hinders your argument. If you have to resport to name calling, clearly, you don't have enough evidence to back up your claim. If you do, you wouldn't need to call other people names. Secondly, people are being way to reactive right now on both sides. Lets be a little reactive and come back to this topic maybe 2-3 years from now? Thirdly, I do think as of right now, boths sides have a point and that it is really hard to "know" what will happen in the playoffs if we haven't let go of CoHo. Only time will tell us if Kass and Phalsson will help or hinder our chances. Fourthly, I don't know why people have all of a sudden seem to give up hope for us this year. What makes you a true Canucks fan is that you stick with the team, through the good times and the bad. I don't think anyone has stopped being a Canucks fan just because we lost last year. Nor do I think, if we loose again, will there be any Canucks fans that just ditch the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsandlak83 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 After going through the COHO and Kassian threads the dominant rationale among the crowd that likes this trade to bring in Kassian is that he brings an element of "toughness" to the line-up that we didn't previously have, and that COHO didn't have a spot behind Kes and Hank moving into the future. Fair enough COHO ain't exact 6,3 230! However i think these arguments are in many ways flawed. The leading hitter on the Canucks is Lappy. He has 178 hits in 63 games. or 2.83 hits per game, averaging just over 11 TOI per game. He also has 7 fighting majors, scrapping in just over 11% of all games this year. He has 118PIM averaging 1.87pim/gm Zach Kassian on the other hand has 39 hits in 27 games or 1.44 hits per game, averaging 12 TOI per game, he has 2 fighting majors, fighting just 7.5% of all games this year and has accumulated 20PIM averaging 0.74PIM/gm Info used from: http://espn.go.com/n...lties/count/121 I understand that fighting, hits, and PIM, don't mean 'toughness', but a direct correlation of how you play the game can be deduced. Also, Lappy was acquired for a 3rd round pick Kassian was acquired for well... you know To finish this point, toughness does not have to be acquired by trading your rookie of the year candidate, and IMO a point-a-game player in a couple years. Travis Moen for 2nd round Pick? Raymond for Moen straight up? Other ways to acquire this much desired toughness! Second argument: "CoHo has Nowhere to play behind Kes and Dan, and will always have a limited role, with limited Ice time". Cant the theory of having Schneids for Luo, be applied for having Coho as inexpensive insurance policy of sorts, god forbid injury to Kes or Dan. A guy to step into a top 6 role at the drop of the hat? Ask Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin and Stall how that's working out. I also feel like people don't truly understand the Loss of offensive Production with CoHo gone. As much as i love Kes this aint a knock on him, just illustrating the offensive prowess of CoHo Ryan Kesler has 19 goals in 58 games or .32 goals per game. He also Averages just over 20 TOI per game with a total of 1,163:10 Minutes on the ice this season. Averaging 1 goal for every 61 minutes of ice time. Not to mention averaging 3.26 TOI of PP time/gm with 7 of his goals coming on the PP, playing with Hank and Dank. Coho has 16 goals in 63 games or .25 goals per game. He averaged just 12.43 TOI per game with a total of 801:56 Minutes of ice time averaging 1 goal for every 50 minutes of ice time. CoHo played 1:50 TOI of PP time and had a remarkable 5 ppg, in limited time without the sedins. Info used from: http://www.nhl.com/i...wName=timeOnIce Cody Hodgson this year is a much more efficient goal scorer than Kes. Obviously Kes brings incredible intangibles to the game but loosing this kind of offense to you lineup cannot be understated. I completely understand that sometime hard decisions have to be made, but trading away this stud, for an unproven guy who has 3 career NHL goals stings a little. Obviously stats can be deceiving but they help gain a better understanding of what a player brings to the table. Hopefully GMMG proves me wrong and we can laugh at this, like the "get rid of burrows thread from 2008" when Kassian is lighting it up as the Canucks version of "Lucic 2.0!" But for right now this one just stings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I agree...you can get grit..but skill just doesn't fall from the tree. I mean for a few high picks and mason raymond...Im pretty damn sure you can get a guy like Dustin Brown, or Travis Moen to fill that role, I mentioned this in another thread, if Kassian goes down, what he brings, grit, size CAN be replaced because hes raw offensively. If Kesler or Hank goes down, we are screwed because Lapierre, Pahlson, Malhotra aren't even in the same league in terms of offensive talent as Hodgson. Previous poster mentioned before...depth at centre is at what wins champions ships. Stall, Crosby Malkin, or how about Toews, Versteeg, Bolland, Ladd or most recently Bergeron, Seguin, Krecji, all centres on the same team, all have Stanley cup rings. Im not doubting Kassian at all, I hope he becomes the player we hope he can be, he certainly has all the tools. My gripe if anything about this trade was Cody Hodgson was traded because he didn't get a chance to prove himself as a top - 6 forward. So what if Hank and Kesler are ahead of him. Hodgson never NEVER got a prolongued shot in playing the wing, while Mason Raymond got evcery chance in the planet to succeed and failed. Thats my main beef about this trade, the fact we are still sticking with Raymond having this false hope he can be the answer when theres a younger player with 5 times more potential that just got dealt because we kept banging our head in the same brick wall and not getting results with Mason Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Can we stop the coho threads! what difference will it make after making this thread! The fact is coho is gone and now we need to look forward to the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsandlak83 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 First point: lmfao. Would you give up Dustin Brown for Raymond, a first and a second? L.A. wants to win now, and Dustin Brown is a significant factor in their playoff picture. Second: Kassian brings more than just grit. He may just be the power forward that Canuck fans have been clamoring for since Bert left. You don't acquire these players after they develop, no one gives them up. You get em early and help mould them. Third: Hank, Kes, Pahlsonn, Malhotra, Lapierre. 4 lines, 5 forwards. How much more depth do you want? We have an abundance of depth down the middle, we were weak on the wings and have been for the last couple seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftcoast Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 People forget how many times Lappy set plugs like Oreskovich and Tanner Glass in last years playoffs with perfect passes in front of the net only to have them wiff on the shot or miss by ten feet. Kassian has the skills to bury those chances so expect some big goals from him come playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigneault's Stache Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 SOO funny , for years people complained about cody being a bust now its instantly changed up to " kassian is a goon and wont be a good player " this site is full of people who will write a whole friggin essay before they do basic research about the topic at hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 if hank and or kesler go down in the playoffs hodgson is not going to save the day as big 1-2 shutdown guys would be grinning ear to ear. the canucks lose anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb4u Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 There are countless players like Hodgson in the league if you class Hodgson as a first line centre with smarts and can put up points. There are very few players like Kassian who are big and have the potential of becoming a premier power forward in the league like Lucic. Most teams don't even have one of those type of players. Rare pieces are going to be much harder to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js604 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Even though we traded Hodgson directly for Kassian, Phalsson is the one actually replacing Hodgson in the line up (3rd line center). That, to me, is a huge downgrade for the 3rd line. Watch as the 3rd line productivity goes to oblivion the rest of this season, and all of the burden of winning rests on the shoulders of Hank and Kesler's lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Even though we traded Hodgson directly for Kassian, Phalsson is the one actually replacing Hodgson in the line up (3rd line center). That, to me, is a huge downgrade for the 3rd line. Watch as the 3rd line productivity goes to oblivion the rest of this season, and all of the burden of winning rests on the shoulders of Hank and Kesler's lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacdeesSnipinGs Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Can we stop the coho threads! what difference will it make after making this thread! The fact is coho is gone and now we need to look forward to the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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