hockeyfan87 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I don't disagree, but don't you think teachers, and other govt wokers have the right to fair contract negotiation? Thats all teachers are asking, is negotiation, and the govt refuses to do anything but impose contract after contract. Like I said, I'm no more a fan of the BCTF than I am of the gov't, but when the gov't imposes a cotract and education plan that guts the education system, like bill 22 does, then I have a problem. They are not shy about their intentions to model their system after the US.........is that really what we want for our kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Of course not and I hope it doesn't come to that. I'm not a fan of the Liberals by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think they are equipped to handle and meet everyone's expectations. Instead of change, they are on a course to try to maintain what we have and failing in every respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Many people here think that because they a)went to school once in their lives or b)that they pay tax - that they know how education is, or should be run. People do of course have the right to an opinion (at least for now in this province anyway) but I certainly wish that more people took the opportunity to get informed about this matter before commenting (I know, foolish for even thinking that on a message board, but I can dream can't I:). In my research (yes, I actually did some research on education) I discovered a few FACTS, not opinions (I did discover many of those), but FACTS. I'll spare everyone the empirical data, but the research is incontrovertible: the level of education in any society is directly related to: -crime rates -unemployment rates (or underemployment rates) -welfare useage -women's rights -racism -sexism -overal health of population -countless other social/economic indicators of well-being The bottom line is that the higher level of education in any one given community, the lower the negative social indicators (crime,welfare,unemployment,racism,etc....) and the higher the positive ones (income level,life expectancy,ect....)Of course this is not a direct link every single time for every single person on the planet (highly educated people can be unhappy, sick, and unproductive), but the data is overwhelming when taken as a whole picture. Our present government fails (and has failed for the past decade) to recognize this.Another fact I discovered is that, even if declining enrollment is taken into consideration, the Liberal government has decreased education funding-per-student for close to 10 years running.I've read proposed Bill 22, and the educational implications are very serious. How many people here commenting on the state of education in BC have actually read Bill 22 and can honestly say they understand what it means at a real-life, daily situation for teachers and students in this province - vs. the people simply stating that the government is broke, teachers are greedy and get summers off?I encourage people here to get informed about Bill 22 and what it means for both public education in this province and wrokers rights (this is a whole other story, and a freightening one at that). I'll just state a few other facts I learned on my way to becoming informed on this topic:MLA's in BC have received wage increases every year for the past decade and received a 30% across the board increase in 2007. They also voted to make their annual pay raises directly linked to the cost of living index so they'll never receive a pay increase lower than that, ever. No, I am not a teacher. But since I am contemplating having children in the near future, and I will not be able to afford private education like many of our MLA's do for their own children, I became informed - no I didn't write a PhD thesis on the topic, but I tried to get myself some information. This government and it's policies on education are a great concern to me. I'm NOT saying give teachers a huge raise, but the system needs to be invested in, and teachers need a role in determining the future of it. The government should not be making the kinds of decisions it is trying to make regarding public education without the equal input from ALL stakeholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Many people here think that because they a)went to school once in their lives or b)that they pay tax - that they know how education is, or should be run. People do of course have the right to an opinion (at least for now in this province anyway) but I certainly wish that more people took the opportunity to get informed about this matter before commenting (I know, foolish for even thinking that on a message board, but I can dream can't I:). In my research (yes, I actually did some research on education) I discovered a few FACTS, not opinions (I did discover many of those), but FACTS. I'll spare everyone the empirical data, but the research is incontrovertible: the level of education in any society is directly related to: -crime rates -unemployment rates (or underemployment rates) -welfare useage -women's rights -racism -sexism -overal health of population -countless other social/economic indicators of well-being The bottom line is that the higher level of education in any one given community, the lower the negative social indicators (crime,welfare,unemployment,racism,etc....) and the higher the positive ones (income level,life expectancy,ect....)Of course this is not a direct link every single time for every single person on the planet (highly educated people can be unhappy, sick, and unproductive), but the data is overwhelming when taken as a whole picture. Our present government fails (and has failed for the past decade) to recognize this.Another fact I discovered is that, even if declining enrollment is taken into consideration, the Liberal government has decreased education funding-per-student for close to 10 years running.I've read proposed Bill 22, and the educational implications are very serious. How many people here commenting on the state of education in BC have actually read Bill 22 and can honestly say they understand what it means at a real-life, daily situation for teachers and students in this province - vs. the people simply stating that the government is broke, teachers are greedy and get summers off?I encourage people here to get informed about Bill 22 and what it means for both public education in this province and wrokers rights (this is a whole other story, and a freightening one at that). I'll just state a few other facts I learned on my way to becoming informed on this topic:MLA's in BC have received wage increases every year for the past decade and received a 30% across the board increase in 2007. They also voted to make their annual pay raises directly linked to the cost of living index so they'll never receive a pay increase lower than that, ever. No, I am not a teacher. But since I am contemplating having children in the near future, and I will not be able to afford private education like many of our MLA's do for their own children, I became informed - no I didn't write a PhD thesis on the topic, but I tried to get myself some information. This government and it's policies on education are a great concern to me. I'm NOT saying give teachers a huge raise, but the system needs to be invested in, and teachers need a role in determining the future of it. The government should not be making the kinds of decisions it is trying to make regarding public education without the equal input from ALL stakeholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobLoblaw Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm a teacher, and I'm a taxpayer, just like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYU3ster Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Something has to give. Since our economy is still in the midst of a recession and the government running a deficit budget that I find it hard for them to give teachers 15% increase in wages in 3 years. So, I can imagine probably imagine 6 percent increase in wages over 3 years as something reasonable. Hopefully this new contract agreement will set a max capacity per class as well as its an ongoing dispute that comes up again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
î мцšт вяздк чфµ Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i like how the students walked out of class on friday in support of the teachers when in reality they just wanted time off. keep striking teachers, that way our younger generation gets closer to that of the u.s. in the i.q. department. soon our kids will be saying the capital of canada is toronto too. /puts on fireproof vest to protect from midget flamers on future posts/replies to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The point of my post was to point out everyone has the right to have their opinion and that we should not simply be dismissive of those who aren't teachers. I am confused by the intent of your post. What are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobLoblaw Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 ^^^ All points I agree with. The only reason I commented at all was because of the statement insinuating that opinions of those who aren't teachers are irrelevant. When trying to gain public support, that sentiment can result in turning people off from the cause. Just stick to facts and the people who are receptive to listening will listen and come to their own reasoned conclusions. These are the only people the BCTF should be trying to reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucksbiggestfan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i like how the students walked out of class on friday in support of the teachers when in reality they just wanted time off. keep striking teachers, that way our younger generation gets closer to that of the u.s. in the i.q. department. soon our kids will be saying the capital of canada is toronto too. /puts on fireproof vest to protect from midget flamers on future posts/replies to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weber's Playoff Beard Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i like how the students walked out of class on friday in support of the teachers when in reality they just wanted time off. keep striking teachers, that way our younger generation gets closer to that of the u.s. in the i.q. department. soon our kids will be saying the capital of canada is toronto too. /puts on fireproof vest to protect from midget flamers on future posts/replies to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Honestly, where do you come up with something this stupid? If you spent the time, the money, and put in the hard work (doing well as you went) to get through medical school, would you expect to go work as a janitor? It's NOT a sense of entitlement. If you do seven years of university, earning two degrees and a teaching certificate, while investing tens of thousands of dollars, you have EARNED the right to be a teacher. How is that selfish and how does that prove that someone should not be a teacher? "Hey, you put in all the time, work, and money required ... but you're selfish if you think you should now have a job". Easily one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resiliency Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 A small correction... I believe under those circumstances you have actually earned the right to apply for work as a teacher. Maybe that's where people are getting the sense of entitlement from. My wife is a teacher and also a recent graduate. She has applied all over the province and there just aren't many positions out there. We had to move north just so she could get an on-call position. I read somewhere that there are 3 new teachers graduating each year for every 1 position that is available, and that doesn't take into account those that are still out there looking. In BC, we definitely have a surplus of teachers looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDWolf Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It was stated earlier in this thread but I think the question needs to be asked. If the job is so bad and teachers are so under paid and over worked why don't they quit? Why is it that more and more people go to school to become a teacher? Are they dumb? This same debate comes up very few years. No current teacher can claim they had never heard this from the teachers union. Yet they still wanted to become a teacher. I know many love to teach and help kids. I support smaller class sizes and more helpers for special needs. But they money has to come from some where. There is only so much money. And many other unions feel their government workers need more too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 A small correction... I believe under those circumstances you have actually earned the right to apply for work as a teacher. Maybe that's where people are getting the sense of entitlement from. My wife is a teacher and also a recent graduate. She has applied all over the province and there just aren't many positions out there. We had to move north just so she could get an on-call position. I read somewhere that there are 3 new teachers graduating each year for every 1 position that is available, and that doesn't take into account those that are still out there looking. In BC, we definitely have a surplus of teachers looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaria Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You're supposed to get a note.. it's something the teacher outlines at the beginning of the year. You were already in high school for 4 years, to not know this, is unlikely. Take responsibility man. That's just an excuse. I have never in all my education have ever had a tutor and I'm in university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks#01fan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Many people here think that because they a)went to school once in their lives or b)that they pay tax - that they know how education is, or should be run. People do of course have the right to an opinion (at least for now in this province anyway) but I certainly wish that more people took the opportunity to get informed about this matter before commenting (I know, foolish for even thinking that on a message board, but I can dream can't I:). In my research (yes, I actually did some research on education) I discovered a few FACTS, not opinions (I did discover many of those), but FACTS. I'll spare everyone the empirical data, but the research is incontrovertible: the level of education in any society is directly related to: -crime rates -unemployment rates (or underemployment rates) -welfare useage -women's rights -racism -sexism -overal health of population -countless other social/economic indicators of well-being The bottom line is that the higher level of education in any one given community, the lower the negative social indicators (crime,welfare,unemployment,racism,etc....) and the higher the positive ones (income level,life expectancy,ect....)Of course this is not a direct link every single time for every single person on the planet (highly educated people can be unhappy, sick, and unproductive), but the data is overwhelming when taken as a whole picture. Our present government fails (and has failed for the past decade) to recognize this.Another fact I discovered is that, even if declining enrollment is taken into consideration, the Liberal government has decreased education funding-per-student for close to 10 years running.I've read proposed Bill 22, and the educational implications are very serious. How many people here commenting on the state of education in BC have actually read Bill 22 and can honestly say they understand what it means at a real-life, daily situation for teachers and students in this province - vs. the people simply stating that the government is broke, teachers are greedy and get summers off?I encourage people here to get informed about Bill 22 and what it means for both public education in this province and wrokers rights (this is a whole other story, and a freightening one at that). I'll just state a few other facts I learned on my way to becoming informed on this topic:MLA's in BC have received wage increases every year for the past decade and received a 30% across the board increase in 2007. They also voted to make their annual pay raises directly linked to the cost of living index so they'll never receive a pay increase lower than that, ever. No, I am not a teacher. But since I am contemplating having children in the near future, and I will not be able to afford private education like many of our MLA's do for their own children, I became informed - no I didn't write a PhD thesis on the topic, but I tried to get myself some information. This government and it's policies on education are a great concern to me. I'm NOT saying give teachers a huge raise, but the system needs to be invested in, and teachers need a role in determining the future of it. The government should not be making the kinds of decisions it is trying to make regarding public education without the equal input from ALL stakeholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It was stated earlier in this thread but I think the question needs to be asked. If the job is so bad and teachers are so under paid and over worked why don't they quit? Why is it that more and more people go to school to become a teacher? Are they dumb? This same debate comes up very few years. No current teacher can claim they had never heard this from the teachers union. Yet they still wanted to become a teacher. I know many love to teach and help kids. I support smaller class sizes and more helpers for special needs. But they money has to come from some where. There is only so much money. And many other unions feel their government workers need more too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Again, it's not entitlement. It took a lot of work to get qualified. But it's not like it's just one or two people that struggle to find work, it's almost all of us. That's not a good thing, whatever you want to call it. Of course I've earned the right to apply, as you say, but there is not much that can be applied for, that's the problem. Funny enough, for me personally, the absolute last sentiment I have is entitled. I tried very hard to find work in other areas because I wanted to test some other options. I'm not at all upset that, as of right now, I don't have a full-time gig. The problems I discussed are more generalities than anything. Like I said in my very first post, I'm still exploring different fields. Would that be the case even if it was easier to break into the teaching profession? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fagin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I for one hope they aren't the ruling party next election. The NDP days of the 90's and early 2000's still have me seeing red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.