Kamero89 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 In my opinion the teachers don't deserve a raise. What they deserve is a proper teaching enviroment (1 Learning Support Kid for class is the most important one, and a few other things). * many teachers including the ones I know personally weren't happy about having so many (3-6) support kids in their classes while other classes had maybe (0-3). Ruins the teaching enviroment for them and wastes their time as well as the students time (creating easier quizzes/tests, seating arrangements, various phone calls to send the kid(s) to LST, BASES, OFFICE,W/E , etc.). Teachers are paid well for what they do. Yes, there are some great, and I mean great teachers but then there are some lazy ass .... that can't even teach the easiest of classes. - Fav. teachers , Grade 12 Law, Grade 8 Science, Grade 7, Grade 4 for sure. - Worst teachers , Grade 11/12 Accounting/Marketing , Grade 9 English , Grade 8 Math I wouldn't pay to have some of these lazy teachers being paid to sit at their desk looking up whatever they want on their laptops (mainly stock market trends, mls.ca, facebook, sports websites, youtube, etc.) ^ I've seen them...... Putting the money meant for raises into building new schools and getting rid of portables would be a much better alternative. As a University student I really couldn't care less (doesn't affect me) but if they get a raise I would like to see a slight raise. - I heard that the teachers wanted extra sick days for family/friend related events, is that true? Ex. If a friends, parent is sick they are allowed to miss a day of work... someone told me this, I don't believe that they would got that far... I had a good GPA in high school (3.5+/4) so when I'm talking about the "bads" they are true. I'm not some idiot claiming that a teacher is bad because she failed me, blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamero89 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Well if they get a better paying job they will pay more taxes and open up a spot for one of the many currently un or underemployed young teachers (at lower cost due to lower on the pay scale) out there. Sounds like a win win win to me. By all means, pursue better employment. I ENCOURAGE IT. Not a threat by ANY stretch of the immagination. There is no teacher shortage. There is a teacher surplus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tru_Knyte Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Reading the posts on this forum makes me wish this province would be willing to spend more on education. A ???? travesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamero89 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Reading the posts on this forum makes me wish this province would be willing to spend more on education. A ???? travesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Outside of hospitals, and maybe fire fighters, I am not sure there is a better place for this money to go to, which boggles my mind that people are against this. Would you rather our Parliament give themselves bonus's, via using our money to buy Canucks, and Olympic tickets again?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Stop making up facts! There is no teacher surplus! Hundreds of classrooms are over crowded. Our politicians give themselves raises every year, and I bet you complain less about that, then the people who are teaching the future of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeStealth Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Did you actually think about those comments before posting them? Not trying to be sarcastic but lets talk this out a bit. First - being in a union is a constitional right. It's the same right that protects membership in a church - businuess group - political party. Fair enough lets desolve them all - no associations - no political parties - no religion - no unions ... hmm what a society we would have. Second - Have teachers hired as contractors and paid on performance. Rich neighborhoods would have healthy competition for teachers applying - the poor neighborhoods would get none or the worst of the bunch. Did you give any thought to what to do with the hundreds of thousands of kids that would have no teacher? Work camps? what would be the taxes needed to look after a large chunk of our population with only grade 2 education? Some of the best teachers I know had the lowest overall grade scores from their students. I grew up in a very poor nieghborhood where nearly every kid was starving, and came from broke homes. One of my all time favorite teachers came into that school and told my class that no matter what we would all be finishing grade 8 and heading to highschool. She delivered on that and every student present on day 1 graduated grade 8. Our average was d's and c's but it was honestly earned grades - no gimmies and no failures. The previous year started with 40 kids 8 dropped out and 6 failed. Occording to your suggestion this was a horrible teacher. This is the same nonsense being spouted by the other group pushing for score testing of all kids as a standard of measure. It is real easy to teach kids from good homes - well fed and good family supports. It takes miricale workers to get a group of poor - hunger kids with no parent supports through a grade. I simply can not agree with your suggestion that would punish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamero89 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 While I agree with you in spirit, he's right in the sense that there are a lot of qualified teachers out there that are not employed as teachers. Take me, for example. I'm a recent graduate of the BEd and I do not have a full-time teaching job (which is true of virtually my entire graduating class). Combine that with teachers that have been laid off (plenty of those), and I suppose you could call it a surplus of teachers. What he failed to realize was why there is a "surplus". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 1st: Make teachers' union optional. As it is currently, if you're not in the union, you can't teach. How is that fair? I'm all for protecting workers' rights, but not when it protect individuals who shouldn't be teachers. 2nd: As for contractors, I was thinking of more the government hire the teachers individually directly, getting rid of the union middle-man. Being a contractor will give lots of tax benefits for teacher too. All the talk about teachers having to spend their own money for supplies, etc.... now as a contractor, it can all be treated as work-related expenses. Travel expenses, additional school supplies, their new computers, home allocated for business deductions, etc... all tax deductible. If there isn't an increase in wage, a massive decrease in taxes would be equally as good. For the 2nd part of your 2nd point, there would be other programs initiated to even the playing field. Hence the part about food programs to make sure kids are healthy, creating a culture of school pride to give students the choice to now go down the wrong path, sports programs, extra after-school classes with new teacher grads, etc. Basically have more funding for students, not teachers/administrators/etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Fair enough, but anyone who thinks that being paid 9th best in the country is good enough, is insane. No one, I repeat no one in a warehouse should make more than a teacher. I am sorry, if you are offended by that. These people spent years in University, and some are in debt for years, not to mention they are literally teaching the future. I don't think the pay should be based on seniority, but it should be based on results. Like grades, and how many graduate, and graduate with honors, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Try Again Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I had a good GPA in high school (3.5+/4) so when I'm talking about the "bads" they are true. I'm not some idiot claiming that a teacher is bad because she failed me, blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Try Again Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 There one teacher I had in 2nd grade, she was a total b****. All my buddies who were in the same class all agree. Going on facebook and looking at other students from different years, different classes all came up with the same conclusion. I'm not saying 7 year olds are the best judge of characters, but if a teacher gets like 90% dislikes vs 10% likes (and I'm being generous with the 10% here), there should be something wrong, don't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Try Again Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Who's talking about protecting bad teachers? And yeah, crappy learning environment can lead to poor learning. But again, relying on the perception of a 7 year old is stupid. What a 7 year old thinks is crappy isn't necessarily crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher? That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Brown Burrows Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 When you have tuition bills that are up to 70 k most of the good teachers are going to move on and use there educations to get better paying jobs so they can pay there bills and make a decent living to support a family but if you pay what i consider to be in the top 3 of importance of jobs a wage they deserve then your going to keep the good teachers and push out the ones that are there only because of a lack of options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher? That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Brown Burrows Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher? That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeStealth Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I never voted for Harper and neither did the majority - how is that fair? seriously it was the members who voted to form the union - for people to come along after and say they want everything the union fought for but not to be in the union undermines the union. If folks don't like their union - get involved and take it over. And making teachers contractors would bankrupt this province in short order. Ask a few teachers how many actual hours they put - not just what you see them but all other work. Since as contractors everything would have to be paid for we could no longer justify school sports or groups like band. Those would have to be moved to the community rather then using tax dollars to hire contractors. And currently teachers pay taxes on their wages. If we make them contractors they would be able to write off most of their income which means less taxes collected. Also as contractors instead of direct employees we give up the right to tell them what to teach or how to do it. And contractors can NOT be legislated or have contracts ripped up - We would loose control of the education system and unlike now they could not impose net zero's and would have to pay what the contractor demands or go without. Becareful what you ask for as you may just get it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 you would have to go back further and consider historical data - how has a school ranked over 10 years for drop out rates etc. Just looking at stats on a year by year basis only would not give an accurate reflection of what was happening. It is possible to get 1 good year or 1 really bad year based on who is in the class ( students and teachers ). If historically a class has a 10% drop out and equal failure rate with a c average and a teacher comes in and cuts the drop out and failure rates by 1/2 and raises the overall grade average to a C+ ... or a teacher comes into a class with historical averages of under 1% drop out and failure with a B average and just maintains it - who would you say did a better job? If you only looked at one year of stats you may pick wrong. If you looked at stats over a longer period averaged in you would pick a more accurate reflection of teaching. Look at cars for example - when they review cars they don't just look at end cost - they gauge defects over time - warrenty returns - resale value etc. Not saying kids are like cars but saying to accurately gauge their progress in school the final grades shouldn only be 1 small part of the entire package we review. The cheapest car may be the best value on paper but when reviewed over 5 years may have been the poorest choice - in the same manner that a class with all A's may not have been the best value for the teacher as compared with another class of all C's when you factor in everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Isn't this more of an issue in the States? I thought that we had it pretty good in the Lower Mainland. There are some "bad" areas (East Vancouver, Guildford, Whalley) that I know have lower success rates than other areas but they really aren't that bad are they. I don't see that many kids dropout. Like we don't have places here like Flint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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