BC teacher strike

[stawns]

For those who think it's all about a salary increase.....

What Parents and Students Need to Know about Bill 22 The Education Improvement Act Our government has introduced legislation to fix many of the problems in education, right? Afterall, it’s called The Education “Improvement” Act, isn’t it? Look a little closer, and decide for yourself. The legislation, tabled on Tuesday, February 28, will impose the following changes:

There will be NO limit to the number of students in Grade 4 to 7 classes. District wide class size average limits will be eliminated.

There will be NO limit to the number of students with diagnosed special learning needs in a single class. The requirement of districts to report to parents and the public regarding the number of classes with over 30 students will be eliminated. Districts will no longer be required to keep track of and report to parents and the pubic the number per class of students with special learning needs.

But what about the 165 million dollars to fix class size and provide supports for special needs learners? And won’t teachers be able to negotiate class size and supports for students? Here is what Bill 22 and the 2012/2013 budget have to say, together: For the remainder of this school year - NO new funding to support oversized classes and learners with special needs. For the 2012/2013 school year - only 30 million dollars (the rest comes in subsequent years) to support oversized classes and special needs learners. At the same time, though, the provincial education budget is set to increase by only 0.36% (about 20 million dollars).

Meanwhile inflationary pressures (increased MSP costs, increased fuel and heating costs, etc) are expected to increase education costs by about 2% or 120 million dollars. This will leave a funding gap of about 100 million dollars. The only way for school districts to deal with that kind of shortfall is to increase class size and/or reduce the number of specialist teachers, something Bill 22 will now allow.

As of 2013/2014, teachers will once again be able to negotiate class size and targeted supports for students. Improvements, though, will have to be reached in the context of the total compensation package. Teachers took 2 years of 0% increases (1998/2000) to gain class size limits and specialist teacher ratios. Then the government illegally removed them in 2002. Fool us once, shame on them. Fool us twice, shame on us. Does this sound like a bill that was designed to “improve” education to you?

[Weber's Playoff Beard]

So much misinformation about the bill and the teacher strike in general. Reminds me of the HST debacle.

[Russ]

For those who think it's all about a salary increase.....

What Parents and Students Need to Know about Bill 22 The Education Improvement Act Our government has introduced legislation to fix many of the problems in education, right? Afterall, it’s called The Education “Improvement” Act, isn’t it? Look a little closer, and decide for yourself. The legislation, tabled on Tuesday, February 28, will impose the following changes:

There will be NO limit to the number of students in Grade 4 to 7 classes. District wide class size average limits will be eliminated.

There will be NO limit to the number of students with diagnosed special learning needs in a single class. The requirement of districts to report to parents and the public regarding the number of classes with over 30 students will be eliminated. Districts will no longer be required to keep track of and report to parents and the pubic the number per class of students with special learning needs.

But what about the 165 million dollars to fix class size and provide supports for special needs learners? And won’t teachers be able to negotiate class size and supports for students? Here is what Bill 22 and the 2012/2013 budget have to say, together: For the remainder of this school year - NO new funding to support oversized classes and learners with special needs. For the 2012/2013 school year - only 30 million dollars (the rest comes in subsequent years) to support oversized classes and special needs learners. At the same time, though, the provincial education budget is set to increase by only 0.36% (about 20 million dollars).

Meanwhile inflationary pressures (increased MSP costs, increased fuel and heating costs, etc) are expected to increase education costs by about 2% or 120 million dollars. This will leave a funding gap of about 100 million dollars. The only way for school districts to deal with that kind of shortfall is to increase class size and/or reduce the number of specialist teachers, something Bill 22 will now allow.

As of 2013/2014, teachers will once again be able to negotiate class size and targeted supports for students. Improvements, though, will have to be reached in the context of the total compensation package. Teachers took 2 years of 0% increases (1998/2000) to gain class size limits and specialist teacher ratios. Then the government illegally removed them in 2002. Fool us once, shame on them. Fool us twice, shame on us. Does this sound like a bill that was designed to “improve” education to you?

[BurnabyJoe]

While I agree with you in spirit, he's right in the sense that there are a lot of qualified teachers out there that are not employed as teachers. Take me, for example. I'm a recent graduate of the BEd and I do not have a full-time teaching job (which is true of virtually my entire graduating class). Combine that with teachers that have been laid off (plenty of those), and I suppose you could call it a surplus of teachers. What he failed to realize was why there is a "surplus".

[Stark]

It's sad that people think that teachers don't deserve to get paid more. For all of the hours they put in, for how much education they had to go through, and for what they do for our kids in the community, they should be paid much more. Of course, we have all had teachers who are horrible at what they do, I'll agree with that.. but the vast majority of them love what they do, and are crucial in maintaining a developed society.

When I was in high school, I was pretty close with my homeroom teacher. A few of us sat down one day and calculated how much he actually gets paid, and after everything (teaching hours, coaching, sponsoring different clubs and organizations within the school), he actually barely gets paid minimum wage. And yet, he never complains and loves what he does.

I have the utmost respect for teachers and what they do. I don't think people realize how important their roles are in our lives. Let's hope the gov't gets their sh*t together.

[Remy]

Skimming through this thread it seems like a few teachers feel they are entitled to a job simply because of the time they've invested in their education. This is a very selfish point of view that does nothing to gain support for your cause. If you went through university with this expectation you probably should not be teaching in the first place.

[Tru_Knyte]

Ahmen you are dead on. I have family in the education system and graded within the last 5 years. Anyone who has come out of highschool in the last 5-10 years can agree completely that the class sizes are way to large. Hell my metal shop class had a good 10 extra students than what there should have been simply because they put them there eventhough the class was full to the point of being dangerous/teacher could never get to everyone for questions.

[Weber's Playoff Beard]

Or you're using 25+ year old textbooks and novels that are falling apart.. and I had to go home and tape them up because they were in such poor condition that the pages were falling apart.

[BobLoblaw]

You know nothing about how the system works so maybe it would be best if you just said nothing.

[hockeyfan87]

Honestly, where do you come up with something this stupid? If you spent the time, the money, and put in the hard work (doing well as you went) to get through medical school, would you expect to go work as a janitor? It's NOT a sense of entitlement. If you do seven years of university, earning two degrees and a teaching certificate, while investing tens of thousands of dollars, you have EARNED the right to be a teacher. How is that selfish and how does that prove that someone should not be a teacher? "Hey, you put in all the time, work, and money required ... but you're selfish if you think you should now have a job".

Easily one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on these boards.

[stawns]

It's the taxpayers who would be funding everything the BCTF is asking for; therefore, people on both sides of the fence are within their rights to have their opinions.

[stawns]

Teachers are being asked to do to much with too little but a 15% wage increase is ridiculous when the province is already running a deficit.

[hockeyfan87]

My girlfriend and I are both teachers (I'm high school English, she's elementary). We have 7 years of university education each. A combined 14 years, and, approximately $60-$70k in debt between us. And you know what, we can't even find full-time teaching jobs. That's the reality for many of us. In fact, the district I'm in closed 12 schools just a couple of years ago. Twelve. Teachers, vice-principals, principals, counsellors, librarians ... all with years and years of experience (talk about job security) and they're looking for new jobs.

So what? That's the choice we made and, believe it or not, a huge reason we made that choice was because we did care about working with students. When I first started I thought that I would enjoy teaching because I loved English, but it didn't take long for me to realize that working with the students was far more rewarding. But you know what? I still have to pay rent, vehicle costs, food costs, etc. I'd also like to have a house some day and start a family. When will I be able to do that, exactly?

So here's what happens next: teachers that are highly skilled, competent, and hard-working ... find other careers. Personally, I'm waiting to hear back from law schools. Who loses in this situation? Not to sound arrogant, but it's the students. I can go into law and be just fine. The students, however, will miss out on a good teacher that genuinely cares. And you can say "oh, well I guess you just don't care that much then" but that's hardly fair. Since when are teachers supposed to monk-like and forsake all worldly possessions? Wasn't it enough that I earned two degrees and spent tens of thousands of dollars? Like I said, I do want a house and family, but I can barely make ends meet as is!

What the B.C. government has done is to say that our union doesn't matter. Negotiations are over and we have to work, or we face extremely stiff fines. Furthermore, a mediator will broker a new deal but it MUST comply with the government's wishes. So really, what rights to teachers actually have? None.

And like many have said, this is about more than money. Classroom compositions are very important. 30 kids in a class? 5-10 IEPs (individual education plans)? It's not just the extra work that this creates for teachers, it's also how spread out it makes us. No individual student really gets the time or attention they need to succeed (go figure so many don't go to university).

But what are we complaining about, our work day is done by 3pm (yeah right!), we have weekends and holidays off, we get summers off, and we get benefits. Just try being a full time teacher for one term or semester, I dare you. Teachers eat, sleep, and breathe their jobs more than you can imagine. The teachers that don't, well, they're the ones you get stuck with when the hard-working teachers find better jobs.

It just baffles my mind how the government can strip spending on education. How can you possibly justify or rationalize that? How is it not seen as the incredibly important institution that it is? And then for people to criticize teachers, as a whole, and call them lazy and greedy? Wow. I shared more personal information than I'd normally like but, to me, this is that important. I just don't think most people really understand the situation.

[hockeyfan87]

@ stawns That's an interesting article even if it contains bias. Generally, I think money spent on education is a good investment. I subscribe to the belief that governments should save during good economic times and spend during recessions.

I won't be voting Liberal next election but for the next three years we're stuck with them. It's pretty clear that they're going to lose the next election for a host of reasons (emergence of conservative party, union disputes, etc.) and maybe the NDP will be able to satisfy teachers in a way that benefits them and students. Although I'm not hopeful.

[stawns]

I get it you're a teacher and you're very passionate about this topic but the only people giving you "rep" are the people solidly on your side. How do you think you come across to people like me, who like most members of the public, are undecided on where they stand?

Where is the government going to get the money to give the teachers what they want? Or is this not your concern? Look at the bigger picture. The system we have right now is unsustainable. If it was a simple issue of giving students a good education it would be a simple argument and decision.

It's not. Healthcare takes up 60% of our budget. How much is left for education, infrastructure, social programs, etc.? This is the real discussion people need to be having but people, including yourself, ignore the realities that BC is facing.

[Taelin]

I won't be voting Liberal next election but for the next three years we're stuck with them. It's pretty clear that they're going to lose the next election for a host of reasons (emergence of conservative party, union disputes, etc.) and maybe the NDP will be able to satisfy teachers in a way that benefits them and students. Although I'm not hopeful.

[hockeyfan87]

the point of that article is, there are many people who think the gov't isn't in nearly as bad a shape as the powers that be want you to believe. Doesn't seem to be too bad when they give themselves, and their corporate cronies higher salaries and disgusting tax breaks.

What I truly don't understand are the people who rail hardest against the teachers, or any union, are usually the ones getting screwed the hardest by the gov't...........teachers and unions are low middle income earners struggling paycheque to paycheque, just like you......trying to fight against an unjust system, just like most of the people heaping hate and vitriol upon them. You'd think those people would recognize that.

For the record, I am not a union person, in any way.......I just want to go to work and do my job to the best of my ability, but when I have to share 23 science 7 textbooks between 78 grade 7 students (or math, or socials etc etc), then you better believe I am going to fight for a better learning environment for my kids.

[Remy]

I hope you aren't a teacher. You dismiss what someone else says as dumb because they disagree with you?

What you just described is entitlement. The fact is there are many people out there with undergraduate degrees and higher levels of education who can't find jobs. Should the government subsidize them too?

Teachers are being asked to do to much with too little but a 15% wage increase is ridiculous when the province is already running a deficit.

If you have something constructive to discuss let's hear it. The education system needs reforms but the BCTF will cave at the first sign of more money and let other issues, such as class size, go by the way side.

[stawns]

Yes, perception and reality are different. If you believe in what you're doing and your intentions are what you say they are then I fully support your right to strike. I just feel like I've seen this story play out so many times in the last ten years with the Liberals and the BCTF that I've grown disillusioned.

[hockeyfan87]

You get offended that I called your earlier post stupid (as it was), and the proceed to back it up by making more ignorant comments. I am a teacher, but thanks for your professional input on that issue. As someone who has never been in my classroom, I appreciate knowing how unsuitable for the profession you find me (I also assume you are a fully certified teacher, to make such judgements ... yeah, right). I didn't assert that your comments are dumb because they disagree with mine, I called them dumb because they are dumb. I also then corrected the incorrect statements that you made.

At what point did I or anyone else ask for a subsidy? I work for my wages, thank you. You still seem to fail to understand that when someone meets all the qualifications for a profession, after years of hard work, they do deserve to find employment unless there is some other reason why they should not (a criminal record, etc.). I'm not looking for a handout, I worked hard to earn my qualifications. You completely ignored the valid points I made in my earlier post. Would you, having earned your MD, find it reasonable that you should be unable to find work as a doctor? They have bodies governing admissions (and graduation) FOR A REASON.

And you're flat out wrong about what the BCTF is fighting for. Wage increases (which essentially amount to a cost of living bump) are at the BOTTOM of our list. You are making statements on something you apparently know very little about. We don't expect the government to get blood from a stone, either. Classroom size, composition, teacher autonomy, etc, etc. I'm not here to explain all the ins and outs for you (especially since you have such strong ideas already anyway), but if you really want to understand what's going on, then read up about it. Again, this is NOT a cash-grab by teachers ...