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BC teacher strike


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#301 Pouria

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

It depends on what you mean by essential. The child doesn't DIE or get injured from missing school. Obviously education is important but it's not the only place where one could find it.

I would say that I would be in exactly the same place if teachers weren't considered an essential service. Sure, there might have been some strikes everyone once in a while but I doublt there would be a multi year cancelation of school........

The only reason this is given essential service status is so many people end up in arms because their free baby sitting service is no longer there. As mentioned, the school is not a baby sitting service.

Heck, even during a strike you could have admin teach a half day once a week and elementary schools could rotate through the grades and send out homework.

Obviously that wouldn't be as good a situation as having full time teachers but I think some lessons in independant learning and dealing with adversity aren't the worse thing to happen to a child.


And when they finally get to university, they get fracked over because they don't know the basic stuff and their foundation would be deemed as weak. So basically, your idea is to forget about the future generation doctors, pharmacists, dentists etc. because highschool and elementary school isn't important and can be run by any moron. I'd say, the government would be stupid if they are shortchanging teachers and the whole school system. These services are essential, because education is essential and it is a reason why Canada isn't a 3rd world country.

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#302 Remy

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:43 PM

You do realize that lesson plans aren't made by the government/ministry right? They are individually crafted by teachers based on standards set by the ministry.

Basically they say, "Students are expected to learn about the role of Candians in WWII". That's it. The ball is in the teacher's court on how they are going to present that.


Absolutely correct. From what I've read of ronthecivil's posts, he has NO clue what teachers or administrators actually do. And that's fine, but he shouldn't be pretending to have any kind of answers to a problem he doesn't even understand.

I really can't understand some of the anger that's been directed towards teachers. I've been on the picket line the last few days and it honestly shocks me each time we get the middle finger or a rude comment, as rare as it is. It's not even that someone disagrees with our stance, it's the outright anger they have. I don't get it.

Above all else, teachers are NOT looking for a cash grab. The 15% over three years is a cost-of-living increase and it's something we have not received in at least a decade. In fact, last time we successfully negotiated a contract, we signed off on NOT getting pay raises because it was more important to have control over class size, composition, etc. Two years later, the government illegally tore up that contract anyway. The B.C. Supreme Court, by the way, found that to be illegal ... still not sure what's going to come of that though.

I understand some people are sick of the confrontation between government and teachers, but please learn the facts. Read the paragraph above: this is a fight the government has picked, multiple times now. If teachers don't fight back we will also lose our union and any rights to collective bargaining. We will, in real terms, have lost all control over these issues. Teachers with no voice in how schools are run: that's what we're fighting against. Now tell me, is that not a damn scary prospect?

#303 Pouria

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:43 PM

WTF? Bringing in Federal politicians in a Provincial issue? Why stop at Harper?

Damn your George W. Bush..... and Jesus!


I just hate Harper lol!

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#304 Fanuck

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:44 PM

Two seperate issues. Quibble about those priorities all you want but either way they are already paid for in full. It's not a yearly budget item. The education budget is huge (not healthcare huge but you can see it from there), several multiples of the BC place roof, on a YEARLY basis.

You can make politics over the MLAs salaries but it's actually irrelevant. What is relevant is the salaries of the people paying for any raises the teachers (and through me too contracts every other public sector union) through their taxes and I can assure you in the private sector things aren't all roses right now. In fact I fully support the idea of keeping MLAs salaries at net zero just like every other government worker.


First point, I don't beleive that anything is paid in full.  The HST/PST/GST transfer payments made from the Feds to BC was used to pay for all of it, now the Lieberals are using 'net-zero' to get their money back from the people to pay of everything they paid for on 'our credit'.  Second, don't try to minimize the significance of the yearly MLA pay raises they give themselves.  You don't lead by taking money from the people and telling them to take less than zero because the rest of the people are going to.  MLA's can all take a wage roll-back (like HEU did a while back) and end this dispute right now.  Teachers, from the ones I've talked to would all gladly take no wage increase if every other one of the issues was 'fairly' negotiated.

#305 CARTER

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:45 PM

So when does the strike end? Tommorow?

#306 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:49 PM


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#307 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:49 PM

So when does the strike end? Tommorow?


Schools open tomorrow.

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#308 Alex Edler 23

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

Ahhh crap! now I have to finish this load of homework... <_<
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#309 ManUtd

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:31 PM

Really? I'm pretty sure we've had the same district map since at least '96.

I'm not thinking about huge district consolidations like someone else proposed, but a bunch of little ones could save some significant coin. North Vancouver could pair up with West Vancouver. Chilliwack and Abbotsford could go together. The three Victoria districts I mentioned earlier. Or Kelowna & Vernon just as examples.

Just because the district is larger doesn't mean they will close more schools. With the money saved, maybe they can keep more small schools open. I currently live in a geographically huge district and there are plenty of small schools just like the ones you described and some that are even smaller.


I like the idea. The only way Chilliwack and Abbotsford would work though is if Abby has middle school as well. I imagine it would be a bit of a mess to have one district where a huge chunk go to middle school and a huge chunk don't.

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#310 stawns

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

So when does the strike end? Tommorow?


schools are in session tommorrow, but we are still in phase one of strike action, which is instructional work only. When they force bill 22 on us, then the strike is over...........for the time being anyway

#311 23Gradin

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:05 PM

schools are in session tommorrow, but we are still in phase one of strike action, which is instructional work only. When they force bill 22 on us, then the strike is over...........for the time being anyway


Once bill 22 is passed into law, the only thing left for teachers to protest with that will not be in violation of the law I surmise will be what they do with their volunteerism; extracurriculars such as sports teams and clubs will now face the possibility of being shut down.

#312 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:10 PM

doesn't Bill 22 violates the charter? I am pretty sure government cannot force teacher back to work.....

One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


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#313 23Gradin

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:16 PM

doesn't Bill 22 violates the charter? I am pretty sure government cannot force teacher back to work.....


Yes in principle it does, but it will take time (& money) to take this to the courts (bill 27/28 from 2002)

#314 stawns

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:18 PM

doesn't Bill 22 violates the charter? I am pretty sure government cannot force teacher back to work.....


they declared us an essential service whch means that, yes, they can force a contract on us and make any strike activity illegal.

#315 23Gradin

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

they declared us an essential service whch means that, yes, they can force a contract on us and make any strike activity illegal.


Not sure how much this decision from Saskatchewan earlier this year will affect any court challenges to come in the BC situation, but the Saskatchewan courts turned down that province's designation of teachers as essential service (I think this may have been mentioned in an earlier post)

http://news.ca.msn.c...law-struck-down


#316 Common sense

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:15 PM

Blame that piece of crap Harper, who has his own selfish agenda. The BC government needs to take their heads out of their asses and invest those tax payers money where it is more important. They should spend more on health care and education.


Playing the Harper card is merely showing your ignorance in this subject.

#317 stawns

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:19 PM

Not sure how much this decision from Saskatchewan earlier this year will affect any court challenges to come in the BC situation, but the Saskatchewan courts turned down that province's designation of teachers as essential service (I think this may have been mentioned in an earlier post)

http://news.ca.msn.c...law-struck-down


we're the only province in Canada that has made teaching an essential service, I believe..........done only so they can impose any contract on us that they like and make it illegal to strike, in any form

#318 goalie13

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:09 AM

we're the only province in Canada that has made teaching an essential service, I believe..........done only so they can impose any contract on us that they like and make it illegal to strike, in any form


I don't know all the legalities of these things, but I don't believe that a service has to be deemed as 'essential' in order for the government to legislate an end to a dispute. I think the essential designation is just there to prevent full walkouts.

Although federal, (and they never got to the point of walking out) the Air Canada flight attendant dispute is a recent example. The feds said they would step in if the two sides couldn't come to an agreement. I also have a vague recollection of some transit, shipyard and logging worker disputes in the past that had to be legislated back because it didn't look like they were going to get resolved on their own.
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#319 iwtl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

Well guess they showed the teachers and the judges who really runs BC - and its not either of them. Love how they took the legislation that the BC supreme court ordered removed and simply put it back in and order it to be legal lol..Showed our supreme court what they think of them!! Don't agree with it but gotta give them there dues as not many parties will openly trash the foundation of our democracy like that. And when next may we have an NDP majority goverment don't forget to remind every BC Liberal supporter that it was their party that took that pendulam and bent it so far to the right that it only had one way to go - racing to the left. Call me crazy but I miss Carol Taylor. Atleast she said even when things must be done we can't loose sight that its BC People we are dealing with it and we have to find a better way.

I wish the BC Liberals would take that same smashing legislation and apply it equally to businuess - if prices hadn't skyrocketed so much folks wouldn't need raises. If we all lived under the net zero mandate ... oh wait we don't... oh wait its only workers.... oh wait net zeros is a communist idea and that failed didn't it?
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#320 stawns

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:41 PM

Well guess they showed the teachers and the judges who really runs BC - and its not either of them. Love how they took the legislation that the BC supreme court ordered removed and simply put it back in and order it to be legal lol..Showed our supreme court what they think of them!! Don't agree with it but gotta give them there dues as not many parties will openly trash the foundation of our democracy like that. And when next may we have an NDP majority goverment don't forget to remind every BC Liberal supporter that it was their party that took that pendulam and bent it so far to the right that it only had one way to go - racing to the left. Call me crazy but I miss Carol Taylor. Atleast she said even when things must be done we can't loose sight that its BC People we are dealing with it and we have to find a better way.

I wish the BC Liberals would take that same smashing legislation and apply it equally to businuess - if prices hadn't skyrocketed so much folks wouldn't need raises. If we all lived under the net zero mandate ... oh wait we don't... oh wait its only workers.... oh wait net zeros is a communist idea and that failed didn't it?


well, it'll be the same situation at the end of next year, when this contract expires........until then I wouldn't expect any extra curricular.

#321 iwtl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:48 PM

Even the folks that think the teachers shouldn't get raises should be furious over this legislation. If you legislate your way out of a supreme court ruling then what value is the courts to our democracy?

That and with net zero mandate the teachers can't even negotiate more help in the classroom. Budgets are frozen and if you ask for even a single piece of paper more you have to give back wages or benifits to get it. If anything the legislation should have respected the courts ruling - and seperated wages from the rest of bargaining issues. If they had said no wage increase but you can bargain for increases in funding in other areas such as composition - special needs teachers etc - I don't think many folks would have disagreed strongly.

This mandate that teachers either make it work with what they have or give up their pay to balance it out is wrong - on many levels. And if you or I disobayed a court order we would face consiquences...

Do You know in BC a teacher striking will be fined more drug manufactuers - drug dealers - employers responsible for workers who die? And unlike those criminals who get a chance to plead their innoccence and to beg for lesser fines teachers are guilty on the spot with no such rights?
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
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"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#322 inane

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:11 PM

Yeah, I have heard that Bill 22 would have a hard time standing up in court if it were taken there. The fines imposed for striking, something like over 20 million dollars a day when you include the teachers, the executive and the BCTF is more than BP was fined for the oil spill among many others. They are basically creating a new criminal law which of course they don't have the legal right to do.

But, that's how this government rolls. They legislate laws they must know are legally questionable (seeing as they lose every time they are sued...) but, they bank on the years it will take to get through the system and by the time it does it doesn't matter because they're on to a new contract.

Like above, ignoring this issue, the passage of a bill like this is disgusting and a pretty big frack you to democratic practice.

edit-- http://www.vancouver...4820/story.html

Edited by inane, 15 March 2012 - 10:13 PM.


#323 iwtl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:48 PM

I would hope that the Supreme Court fines the BC Liberal party the exact same amounts in Bill 22 for openly defing their ruling. I would think it would be fair to fine every BC Liberal MLA $475 a day - every Cabnet minister $2500 dollars per day and the Party 1.3 Million per day that Bill 22 is in effect. I believe it is essential for democracy that the legislated penalties for non compliance be applied equally and in a consistent manner. To ensure respect for the rule of law it demands punitive measures in my opinion.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#324 Tony Romo

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:13 AM

Bc teachers are better at sticking than Saskatchewan teachers. In sk last spring they only took like 3 days off and all something like two weeks apart.
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#325 stawns

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:26 AM

Bc teachers are better at sticking than Saskatchewan teachers. In sk last spring they only took like 3 days off and all something like two weeks apart.


there won't be anymore strike action from teachers until this contract expires, imo.........we made our point, but knew, ultimately, that we didn't have a leg this round. I think we made our point with the public........that this bill is a very bad thing for your children. This contract is up at the end June, 2013..........I think that will be a turning point in this dispute. Until then, there will likely be no extrac curricular......it will be working to our contract.

#326 believe in blue forever

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:57 PM

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