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#61 Kamero89

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:48 PM

In my opinion the teachers don't deserve a raise. What they deserve is a proper teaching enviroment (1 Learning Support Kid for class is the most important one, and a few other things).

* many teachers including the ones I know personally weren't happy about having so many (3-6) support kids in their classes while other classes had maybe (0-3). Ruins the teaching enviroment for them and wastes their time as well as the students time (creating easier quizzes/tests, seating arrangements, various phone calls to send the kid(s) to LST, BASES, OFFICE,W/E , etc.).

Teachers are paid well for what they do. Yes, there are some great, and I mean great teachers but then there are some lazy ass .... that can't even teach the easiest of classes.

- Fav. teachers , Grade 12 Law, Grade 8 Science, Grade 7, Grade 4 for sure.
- Worst teachers , Grade 11/12 Accounting/Marketing , Grade 9 English , Grade 8 Math

I wouldn't pay to have some of these lazy teachers being paid to sit at their desk looking up whatever they want on their laptops (mainly stock market trends, mls.ca, facebook, sports websites, youtube, etc.)

^ I've seen them......

Putting the money meant for raises into building new schools and getting rid of portables would be a much better alternative.

As a University student I really couldn't care less (doesn't affect me) but if they get a raise I would like to see a slight raise.

- I heard that the teachers wanted extra sick days for family/friend related events, is that true?
Ex. If a friends, parent is sick they are allowed to miss a day of work... someone told me this, I don't believe that they would got that far...

I had a good GPA in high school (3.5+/4) so when I'm talking about the "bads" they are true. I'm not some idiot claiming that a teacher is bad because she failed me, blah, blah, blah.


I don't agree with you, but at least you made actual points. Holy heck, all the others against it just made immature statements, based on nothing.

I think specifically High School teachers deserve to make more. BC should be higher than 9th best income for teachers nationally. I know some people who work in warehouses who make more than some teachers I know. That is just ridicules. BC, Vancouver, and the surrounding places around Van, is the most expensive place live in the country, and the wages have to reflect that. If not the best teachers in the province, could leave.

They are not asking for the moon here, these people just wanted more equal benefits to what is offered around the country. And just because you may have had 1 or 2 bad teachers in your life, does not mean they are all bad.

#62 Kamero89

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

Well if they get a better paying job they will pay more taxes and open up a spot for one of the many currently un or underemployed young teachers (at lower cost due to lower on the pay scale) out there. Sounds like a win win win to me.

By all means, pursue better employment. I ENCOURAGE IT.

Not a threat by ANY stretch of the immagination. There is no teacher shortage. There is a teacher surplus.


Stop making up facts! There is no teacher surplus! Hundreds of classrooms are over crowded. Our politicians give themselves raises every year, and I bet you complain less about that, then the people who are teaching the future of this country.

#63 Tru_Knyte

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:53 PM

Reading the posts on this forum makes me wish this province would be willing to spend more on education. A ???? travesty.
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#64 Kamero89

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:01 PM

Reading the posts on this forum makes me wish this province would be willing to spend more on education. A ???? travesty.


Outside of hospitals, and maybe fire fighters, I am not sure there is a better place for this money to go to, which boggles my mind that people are against this. Would you rather our Parliament give themselves bonus's, via using our money to buy Canucks, and Olympic tickets again?!

#65 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:07 PM

Outside of hospitals, and maybe fire fighters, I am not sure there is a better place for this money to go to, which boggles my mind that people are against this. Would you rather our Parliament give themselves bonus's, via using our money to buy Canucks, and Olympic tickets again?!

Politicians give themselves raises on the premise of trying to attract the best and the brightest. Apparently the same cannot be said about how they value teachers.
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#66 Remy

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:10 PM

Stop making up facts! There is no teacher surplus! Hundreds of classrooms are over crowded. Our politicians give themselves raises every year, and I bet you complain less about that, then the people who are teaching the future of this country.


While I agree with you in spirit, he's right in the sense that there are a lot of qualified teachers out there that are not employed as teachers. Take me, for example. I'm a recent graduate of the BEd and I do not have a full-time teaching job (which is true of virtually my entire graduating class). Combine that with teachers that have been laid off (plenty of those), and I suppose you could call it a surplus of teachers. What he failed to realize was why there is a "surplus".

#67 FeStealth

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:16 PM

Did you actually think about those comments before posting them? Not trying to be sarcastic but lets talk this out a bit.

First - being in a union is a constitional right. It's the same right that protects membership in a church - businuess group - political party. Fair enough lets desolve them all - no associations - no political parties - no religion - no unions ... hmm what a society we would have.

Second - Have teachers hired as contractors and paid on performance. Rich neighborhoods would have healthy competition for teachers applying - the poor neighborhoods would get none or the worst of the bunch. Did you give any thought to what to do with the hundreds of thousands of kids that would have no teacher? Work camps? what would be the taxes needed to look after a large chunk of our population with only grade 2 education? Some of the best teachers I know had the lowest overall grade scores from their students. I grew up in a very poor nieghborhood where nearly every kid was starving, and came from broke homes. One of my all time favorite teachers came into that school and told my class that no matter what we would all be finishing grade 8 and heading to highschool. She delivered on that and every student present on day 1 graduated grade 8. Our average was d's and c's but it was honestly earned grades - no gimmies and no failures. The previous year started with 40 kids 8 dropped out and 6 failed. Occording to your suggestion this was a horrible teacher. This is the same nonsense being spouted by the other group pushing for score testing of all kids as a standard of measure. It is real easy to teach kids from good homes - well fed and good family supports. It takes miricale workers to get a group of poor - hunger kids with no parent supports through a grade. I simply can not agree with your suggestion that would punish them.


1st: Make teachers' union optional. As it is currently, if you're not in the union, you can't teach. How is that fair?
I'm all for protecting workers' rights, but not when it protect individuals who shouldn't be teachers.

2nd: As for contractors, I was thinking of more the government hire the teachers individually directly, getting rid of the union middle-man. Being a contractor will give lots of tax benefits for teacher too. All the talk about teachers having to spend their own money for supplies, etc.... now as a contractor, it can all be treated as work-related expenses. Travel expenses, additional school supplies, their new computers, home allocated for business deductions, etc... all tax deductible. If there isn't an increase in wage, a massive decrease in taxes would be equally as good.

For the 2nd part of your 2nd point, there would be other programs initiated to even the playing field. Hence the part about food programs to make sure kids are healthy, creating a culture of school pride to give students the choice to now go down the wrong path, sports programs, extra after-school classes with new teacher grads, etc. Basically have more funding for students, not teachers/administrators/etc
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#68 Kamero89

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

While I agree with you in spirit, he's right in the sense that there are a lot of qualified teachers out there that are not employed as teachers. Take me, for example. I'm a recent graduate of the BEd and I do not have a full-time teaching job (which is true of virtually my entire graduating class). Combine that with teachers that have been laid off (plenty of those), and I suppose you could call it a surplus of teachers. What he failed to realize was why there is a "surplus".


Fair enough, but anyone who thinks that being paid 9th best in the country is good enough, is insane. No one, I repeat no one in a warehouse should make more than a teacher. I am sorry, if you are offended by that. These people spent years in University, and some are in debt for years, not to mention they are literally teaching the future.

I don't think the pay should be based on seniority, but it should be based on results. Like grades, and how many graduate, and graduate with honors, ect.

#69 iwtl

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:30 PM

1st: Make teachers' union optional. As it is currently, if you're not in the union, you can't teach. How is that fair?
I'm all for protecting workers' rights, but not when it protect individuals who shouldn't be teachers.

2nd: As for contractors, I was thinking of more the government hire the teachers individually directly, getting rid of the union middle-man. Being a contractor will give lots of tax benefits for teacher too. All the talk about teachers having to spend their own money for supplies, etc.... now as a contractor, it can all be treated as work-related expenses. Travel expenses, additional school supplies, their new computers, home allocated for business deductions, etc... all tax deductible. If there isn't an increase in wage, a massive decrease in taxes would be equally as good.

For the 2nd part of your 2nd point, there would be other programs initiated to even the playing field. Hence the part about food programs to make sure kids are healthy, creating a culture of school pride to give students the choice to now go down the wrong path, sports programs, extra after-school classes with new teacher grads, etc. Basically have more funding for students, not teachers/administrators/etc


I never voted for Harper and neither did the majority - how is that fair? seriously it was the members who voted to form the union - for people to come along after and say they want everything the union fought for but not to be in the union undermines the union. If folks don't like their union - get involved and take it over.

And making teachers contractors would bankrupt this province in short order. Ask a few teachers how many actual hours they put - not just what you see them but all other work. Since as contractors everything would have to be paid for we could no longer justify school sports or groups like band. Those would have to be moved to the community rather then using tax dollars to hire contractors. And currently teachers pay taxes on their wages. If we make them contractors they would be able to write off most of their income which means less taxes collected. Also as contractors instead of direct employees we give up the right to tell them what to teach or how to do it. And contractors can NOT be legislated or have contracts ripped up - We would loose control of the education system and unlike now they could not impose net zero's and would have to pay what the contractor demands or go without. Becareful what you ask for as you may just get it lol
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#70 iwtl

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:38 PM

Fair enough, but anyone who thinks that being paid 9th best in the country is good enough, is insane. No one, I repeat no one in a warehouse should make more than a teacher. I am sorry, if you are offended by that. These people spent years in University, and some are in debt for years, not to mention they are literally teaching the future.

I don't think the pay should be based on seniority, but it should be based on results. Like grades, and how many graduate, and graduate with honors, ect.


So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher?

That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#71 Try Again

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:40 PM

I had a good GPA in high school (3.5+/4) so when I'm talking about the "bads" they are true. I'm not some idiot claiming that a teacher is bad because she failed me, blah, blah, blah.


you claim you are smart yet you tried to bypass the swear filter :lol:
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#72 Try Again

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

There one teacher I had in 2nd grade, she was a total b****. All my buddies who were in the same class all agree. Going on facebook and looking at other students from different years, different classes all came up with the same conclusion.

I'm not saying 7 year olds are the best judge of characters, but if a teacher gets like 90% dislikes vs 10% likes (and I'm being generous with the 10% here), there should be something wrong, don't you agree?


yeah I agree

I had a really grouchy Grade 2 teacher, and the next year I had a great Grade 3 teacher

Elementary students remember who was good and who wasn't.
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#73 Try Again

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

Who's talking about protecting bad teachers?

And yeah, crappy learning environment can lead to poor learning. But again, relying on the perception of a 7 year old is stupid. What a 7 year old thinks is crappy isn't necessarily crappy.


Maybe the Janitor's perception is better for you then...

I think the onus would be on the parents who tend to be very involved in the early years of a child's education.
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#74 Remy

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:56 PM

So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher?

That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish.


Excellent post! You hit it right on the head.

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

When you have tuition bills that are up to 70 k most of the good teachers are going to move on and use there educations to get better paying jobs so they can pay there bills and make a decent living to support a family but if you pay what i consider to be in the top 3 of importance of jobs a wage they deserve then your going to keep the good teachers and push out the ones that are there only because of a lack of options


That's so true. Sometimes money issues can lead some of the good ones into different professions with better pay, etc. I agree with you as teachers being in the top 3 but if the government can hold out on paying them increases by improving the conditions first we may be better off.

Basically - Fix this strike issue (improved classroom conditions, build new schools, etc.) + maybe a slight wage increase
- the government can later on increase the teacher wages as soon as students have a good learning enviroment

* It sucks to see how B.C. is struggling so much in the education and even the health field while we are prospering in the housing markets.

Wages should be held off as other things are simply more important, maybe a 5-7 year agreement can be worked out (I don't know much of the details at all, like the min. length of a union agreement to the government...)

We just need more money.....

#76 theo5789

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher?

That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish.


So how about standardized testing at the beginning of the year and one at the end? It's not about the final mark, it's about the improvement of the student. With the greater room for improvement for the students in the "poorer" neighbourhood, it could promote some of better teachers to help these children. The "richer" neighbourhood may not have the best quality teachers, but their students require "less work" to teach the material.

No idea if this would work, but would just like to know your opinion on it.
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

So a teacher who gets a job in a rich neighborhood and only has to give a bit of efffort to see thier students graduate and lots with honors as they move on to univirsity gets full bonuses .... yet the teacher who takes the job in the poor neighborhood with high drop out and failure rates and gets most of them through the year with huge increases in overall grades but as most have no hope of going to university and started with such low grades that teacher gets next to nothing because the end grades tells everything about the quality of that teacher? That is one of the biggest reasons our schools are public vs private. As soon as you move to performance based with final grades being a measure - you are throwing the poorer or challenged kids under the bus. If one could come up with a fair measure of a teachers worth that considered things such as poverty issues - disabilities - family issues etc then maybe I could support it. To steal a nike add from years ago - the test of a true champion is not who finishes first but who worked hardest to finish.


Isn't this more of an issue in the States? I thought that we had it pretty good in the Lower Mainland. There are some "bad" areas (East Vancouver, Guildford, Whalley) that I know have lower success rates than other areas but they really aren't that bad are they. I don't see that many kids dropout. Like we don't have places here like Flint.

#78 FeStealth

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

I never voted for Harper and neither did the majority - how is that fair? seriously it was the members who voted to form the union - for people to come along after and say they want everything the union fought for but not to be in the union undermines the union. If folks don't like their union - get involved and take it over.

And making teachers contractors would bankrupt this province in short order. Ask a few teachers how many actual hours they put - not just what you see them but all other work. Since as contractors everything would have to be paid for we could no longer justify school sports or groups like band. Those would have to be moved to the community rather then using tax dollars to hire contractors. And currently teachers pay taxes on their wages. If we make them contractors they would be able to write off most of their income which means less taxes collected. Also as contractors instead of direct employees we give up the right to tell them what to teach or how to do it. And contractors can NOT be legislated or have contracts ripped up - We would loose control of the education system and unlike now they could not impose net zero's and would have to pay what the contractor demands or go without. Becareful what you ask for as you may just get it lol


You have a choice to vote or not, teachers don't have the option whether they want to be in the or not. If a teacher wants to opt-out, they should have the option to.

With contractors, you have control of what their duties are. Eg. If I hire a contract to build a house, he just doesn't do whatever he wants and builds me a car. Certain criteria must be met. For control, it would give more control to the Ministry of Education and the school boards, not to the union. If a teacher is doing poorly, they can be easily replaced. Those willing to fork in more time will be paid accordingly, those slacking off will be paid less.

As for less taxes, teachers' taxes doesn't make that big of an impact of the overall government revenue. But either way, the province will have less money, whether they have to pay more to the teachers or collect less since the teachers can deduct more. Since I believe government should be taxing less, I just simply agree with the less taxation part... although the net benefits for the teacher are practically the same.

Whether it will cost the province more money or not, it's up for debate, since I don't have the stats. We all know about the teachers who spends the extra time, but we don't hear much about the ones that slacks off, and I bet there are lots of those too.
But this isn't a 1 solution to fix all problems, the whole system needs to be revamped. More resources and stuff directly for kids to let them perform better and kids who do well requires less additional attention from teachers, meaning less stress load. Obviously it's not just as simplistic as that, but we have to realize that the education system is for the children, not for the teachers.
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#79 iwtl

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

you would have to go back further and consider historical data - how has a school ranked over 10 years for drop out rates etc. Just looking at stats on a year by year basis only would not give an accurate reflection of what was happening. It is possible to get 1 good year or 1 really bad year based on who is in the class ( students and teachers ). If historically a class has a 10% drop out and equal failure rate with a c average and a teacher comes in and cuts the drop out and failure rates by 1/2 and raises the overall grade average to a C+ ... or a teacher comes into a class with historical averages of under 1% drop out and failure with a B average and just maintains it - who would you say did a better job? If you only looked at one year of stats you may pick wrong. If you looked at stats over a longer period averaged in you would pick a more accurate reflection of teaching.

Look at cars for example - when they review cars they don't just look at end cost - they gauge defects over time - warrenty returns - resale value etc. Not saying kids are like cars but saying to accurately gauge their progress in school the final grades shouldn only be 1 small part of the entire package we review. The cheapest car may be the best value on paper but when reviewed over 5 years may have been the poorest choice - in the same manner that a class with all A's may not have been the best value for the teacher as compared with another class of all C's when you factor in everything.
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"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#80 iwtl

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:22 PM

Isn't this more of an issue in the States? I thought that we had it pretty good in the Lower Mainland. There are some "bad" areas (East Vancouver, Guildford, Whalley) that I know have lower success rates than other areas but they really aren't that bad are they. I don't see that many kids dropout. Like we don't have places here like Flint.


we are no where near as bad as the US in my opinion but we also have alot of very poor schools. There are areas that are not bad neighborhoods but high poverty. Kids who arrive at school hungry, can't afford to participate in functions, may not fit in because of the cloths they wear are at a disadvantage academically and simple text book teaching alone is not going to help them overcome all the obsticles - Maslows hieracy of needs at work.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#81 iwtl

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

You have a choice to vote or not, teachers don't have the option whether they want to be in the or not. If a teacher wants to opt-out, they should have the option to.

With contractors, you have control of what their duties are. Eg. If I hire a contract to build a house, he just doesn't do whatever he wants and builds me a car. Certain criteria must be met. For control, it would give more control to the Ministry of Education and the school boards, not to the union. If a teacher is doing poorly, they can be easily replaced. Those willing to fork in more time will be paid accordingly, those slacking off will be paid less.

As for less taxes, teachers' taxes doesn't make that big of an impact of the overall government revenue. But either way, the province will have less money, whether they have to pay more to the teachers or collect less since the teachers can deduct more. Since I believe government should be taxing less, I just simply agree with the less taxation part... although the net benefits for the teacher are practically the same.

Whether it will cost the province more money or not, it's up for debate, since I don't have the stats. We all know about the teachers who spends the extra time, but we don't hear much about the ones that slacks off, and I bet there are lots of those too.
But this isn't a 1 solution to fix all problems, the whole system needs to be revamped. More resources and stuff directly for kids to let them perform better and kids who do well requires less additional attention from teachers, meaning less stress load. Obviously it's not just as simplistic as that, but we have to realize that the education system is for the children, not for the teachers.


To some extent I agree but this also isn't 1900... Teachers do this as a profession and not servitude. So we need to find a balance where by teachers have the right to seek wage and benifit improvement and ensure the continuity of education at the same time.

Me personally - I think schools should be full essential - but the trade off is goverment should loose the right to legislate. Things like raises should be set by the measure of the average yearly raise nationally and provincially for them in much the same way the military and RCMP have their wages set. They at the minimum get cost of living and I think thats fair. I do not think its fair to legislate zero's and take away any ability to ask for anything. Teachers have bills just like you and me - and as a parent paying for his oldest to go through university currently ( not as a teacher ) - hokkey crappers is it expensive. For new grads I get it why they need a raise the student loans are like a mortage payement.
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#82 Resiliency

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

How do you suppose good teacher feel when they read bullcrap like this? You know nothing about how the system works so maybe it would be best if you just said nothing.


And you do? It wasn't too long since I was in high school, and I clearly remember the torturous times under brutal teachers. Teachers should be paid on how well they teach, not for how long they've had their position. Instead of measuring how well the teachers are doing through letter grades, why not measure their teaching ability by how their students improve within the same specific school? That way, even in poorer neighbourhoods where less able children may live in, you can still compare how teachers are doing relative to their co-workers.

I've stayed in touch with old teachers of mine, and most agree that there should be standardized tests. There's very little accountability,

Instead of criticizing, why don't you think of a solution smarty-pants?

- I'm only stating a quick example of how they might gauge teaching ability, but can we not all agree that wonderful teachers may not be getting enough, and that some lazy teachers should definitely not be rewarded with a higher salary.

Edited by Resiliency, 29 February 2012 - 09:56 PM.

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#83 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:55 PM

here are what BC teacher make compare to other provinces



B.C. teachers salaries and how they compare to other provinces

Global News : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 3:41 PM


Teachers have planned specific actions this week.
Postmedia News


A big sticking point in the current B.C. teachers’ dispute is salary, so we decided to examine the numbers to see how our province’s teachers stack up.

The following salaries are current as of 2011; the most current salary figures available.

Salary ranges for teachers with five years of university education (degree with teaching certificate):

Vancouver: $48,083 (min) - $74.353 (max) (second lowest)
Calgary: $61,038 (min) - $95,073 (max)
Toronto: $50,739 (min) - $87,882 (max)
Nova Scotia: $48,020 (min) – $68,536 (max)

Salary ranges for teachers with a minimum of six years of university education (degree with teaching certificate, plus Masters):

Vancouver: $52,823 (min) - $81,488 (max) (lowest)
Calgary: $64,905 (min) - $98,938 (max)
Toronto: $54,333 (min) - $92,878 (max)
Nova Scotia: $62,946 (min) – $85,699 (max)

All statistics obtained from the British Columbia Teachers Federation research department.



http://www.globaltvb...1600/story.html


If you look at the other provinces most are much higher than BC we are the second lowest


Edited by canuck_trevor16, 29 February 2012 - 09:56 PM.

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#84 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:06 PM

And you do? It wasn't too long since I was in high school, and I clearly remember the torturous times under brutal teachers. Teachers should be paid on how well they teach, not for how long they've had their position. Instead of measuring how well the teachers are doing through letter grades, why not measure their teaching ability by how their students improve within the same specific school? That way, even in poorer neighbourhoods where less able children may live in, you can still compare how teachers are doing relative to their co-workers.

I've stayed in touch with old teachers of mine, and most agree that there should be standardized tests. There's very little accountability,

Instead of criticizing, why don't you think of a solution smarty-pants?

- I'm only stating a quick example of how they might gauge teaching ability, but can we not all agree that wonderful teachers may not be getting enough, and that some lazy teachers should definitely not be rewarded with a higher salary.


Standardized testing is a completely bias way to gauge a teachers ability. Not sure how these so called teacher friends of yours would feel about being paid based on the results. Maybe you should go ask them sport.

If you want standardized test results to determine a teachers pay then you will have to implement standardized testing for parenting as well.

P.S. I know how the system works, that's why I brought it up.

Edited by JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo, 29 February 2012 - 10:09 PM.

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#85 Resiliency

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

Standardized testing is a completely bias way to guage a teachers ability. Not sure how these so called teacher friends of yours would feel about being paid based on these results. Maybe you should go ask them sport.

If you want standardized test results to determine a teachers pay then you will have to implement standardized testing for parenting as well.


I'm not saying teachers' salaries should be completely based on test results. I am only proposing one means of evaluating performances, and in my post, I clearly stated that rather than looking at the letter grades, we should look at the IMPROVEMENT that students make over set periods of time.

In my grade twelve year, a new teacher was hired to take over the AP Physics class, and if you ask any student of his class, they will tell you how he wasted an entire year. He simply could not teach. Even though hoards of students from all the different classes he taught complained to the principal, he was allowed to continue teaching. And guess what? He's still the AP Physics teacher, and he's still being paid the same amount as some really amazing teachers I've had. Would this not be a reason why good teachers want standardized tests?

Sidenote: first project of AP physics: design a poster of a physician. make sure it has lots of detailed info. It was marked out of six categories by two random students assigned by the teacher.
1. aesthetic sense 2. symmetry, 3. colour combinations 4. size of font 5. colour of font 6. pictures

That's why I say there is no accountabilty.

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#86 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

I heard that many students are planning to walkout... anyone else heard of that? The walkout is supposedly to tell the government that the students are on the teachers side.

#87 Resiliency

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:20 PM

I heard that many students are planning to walkout... anyone else heard of that? The walkout is supposedly to tell the government that the students are on the teachers side.


No, it's mostly a vent of frustration from students due to their lack of say in the situation. They're the chips in the poker-game between the government and the teachers,

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#88 Rhinogator

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:20 PM

I heard that many students are planning to walkout... anyone else heard of that? The walkout is supposedly to tell the government that the students are on the teachers side.


my brother told me there's a facebook event for that. don't got the link since i've been out of highschool for a while now.
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#89 theo5789

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:27 PM

Sounds like an excuse to skip school...
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#90 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:29 PM

Yeah, pretty much I guess. I'm sure it's not going to happen.....when I was in school we planned similar events (not for previous strikes obviously) but none of the events never worked out.

I heard about this from my brother. He's still in high school (grade 12).




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