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#151 VancouverHabitant

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

If you want to compare "importance" as a scale of pay then garbage men should be the highest on the pay scale and hockey players should be near the bottom.


Right, but there is no difference in the quality of work of a garbage man. It's a binary function, garbage is either a) picked up or b ) not picked up.
With hockey players it's all about the quality of work and that's why me and you aren't getting payed minimum wage to play.


Which goes back to my original point that the quality of work of teachers absolutely matters.


Look, by defending the teachers in the public discourse, I've really gotten away from my actual view on the negotiation impasse.

I don't think that teachers need a big raise. In fact, if they just give them a 2% yearly raise, it would suffice.
I have an issue in the worsening classroom composition and how government is trying to put more and more on public teacher's plates. They have continually cut resources away over the last 10 years (I heard a figure that the education funding went from %25 of the budget to %16 currently)

On the flipside, you have private schools that are getting funding from the Province and that's what irks me. If everybody drives a Civic, why are we supplementing some to drive a Lexus.

[/rant]

Edited by VancouverHabitant, 01 March 2012 - 06:00 PM.

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#152 Coda

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:04 PM

I don't think that teachers need a big raise. In fact, if they just give them a 2% yearly raise, it would suffice.
I have an issue in the worsening classroom composition and how government is trying to put more and more on public teacher's plates. They have continually cut resources away over the last 10 years (I heard a figure that the education funding went from %25 of the budget to %16 currently)

On the flipside, you have private schools that are getting funding from the Province and that's what irks me. If everybody drives a Civic, why are we supplementing some to drive a Lexus.



http://www.tradingec...re-wb-data.html

Yes, that's what the data says.

Edited by Coda, 01 March 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#153 iwtl

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:04 PM

6 years of school is pretty standard now a days. Every other person now a days has a Bachelor's degree of some sort (which are also given out like candy). Then a lot of people usually do 2 year programs afterwords to add practical skills on top of their theoretical knowledge.

People in IT need to continuously take courses, read books, and stay up to date with the latest trends and technologies. I'm expected to read books and give presentations at work, and I am expected to do that on my own time. And I get no "Pro D Day" to do it.

Same as accountants who need to study and take exams for their designations. It's an ongoing process that isn't complete even after you are handed that rolled up piece of paper with a ribbon on it.

http://www4.hrsdc.gc...-eng.jsp?iid=29

nationally 21% of high-school grads get degrees - 31% college or trades diploma's. Every other person would mean 50% and it's less then 1/2 that amount. Your argument that since you don't get paid as much others shouldn't doesn't hold water I'm afraid. If we paid people based on total education required NHL players would make minimum wage. In reality it is a factor of many things including education - skill - ability etc. Lots of occupations require on going yearly updating and enhancing their educations - Nurses - Steam and Boiler Engineers - Other trades - etc and the list goes on and on. Heck even kids working at McDonalds are suppose to have yearly education upgrading ( WHIMIS - Food Safe ). I don't think there are very many jobs in today's world that one can perform well without continuing to work on enhancing their skills and education within their profession.

also if you look at that chart and the link about high school drop out rates - BC has the lowest in the country now at 6.3% http://www4.hrsdc.gc...-eng.jsp?iid=32

I would say our teachers are doing a very good job

Edited by iwtl, 01 March 2012 - 06:09 PM.

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#154 Raph

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:23 PM

Your argument that since you don't get paid as much others shouldn't doesn't hold water I'm afraid. If we paid people based on total education required NHL players would make minimum wage.


Then teachers need to stop making arguments that they need to get paid more just cuz they did 6 years of post-secondary. Cuz a lot of other people did too, and $40k a year is typical for as a starting wage for a lot of jobs. And a teacher's starting wage is $40k, and they get their 10 weeks off.

Edited by Raph, 01 March 2012 - 06:23 PM.

Untouchables: Tanev, Jensen, Kassian
Mostly untouchable: Sedins (need someone to man the fort and no trade value)
Open to trade: Everyone else
Drive to airport: Bieksa, Edler

Bring back: Ehrhoff

#155 iwtl

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Then teachers need to stop making arguments that they need to get paid more just cuz they did 6 years of post-secondary. Cuz a lot of other people did too, and $40k a year is typical for as a starting wage for a lot of jobs. And a teacher's starting wage is $40k, and they get their 10 weeks off.


That works out to $19.23 an hour. 6 years of university for 19.23 per hour? Seriously? And for teachers they are salaried based on 2080 hours over the school year. They do not get paid more for pulling a 10 or 12 hour day. So although not a majority a good chunk of that vacation time is really luie time for unpaid overtime. And again "Cuz a lot of other people did too"??? where and who with 6 years university would be willing to work at $19.23 per hour in Canada. You wouldn't able to afford the student loan payments let alone get ahead at that rate lol
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#156 Tru_Knyte

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:35 PM

A friend of mine who's on facebook liked this little satirical piece, thought it's worth a read:

Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Added 2/21/11---WARNING...for all of you who are having a breakdown right now and don't realize it...this is SARCASM!!!


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#157 Coda

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

That works out to $19.23 an hour. 6 years of university for 19.23 per hour? Seriously? And for teachers they are salaried based on 2080 hours over the school year. They do not get paid more for pulling a 10 or 12 hour day. So although not a majority a good chunk of that vacation time is really luie time for unpaid overtime. And again "Cuz a lot of other people did too"??? where and who with 6 years university would be willing to work at $19.23 per hour in Canada. You wouldn't able to afford the student loan payments let alone get ahead at that rate lol


Interesting.

Teachers used to have a respected position in Canadian society: in "Small Town America" (I include Canada in this as we are part of North America after all) the school teacher was considered an important member of the community, perhaps only below the Doctor and any distinguished citizens who happened to live in town.

Now it seems that teachers are more and more being relegated to "just another profession"-even below the level of garbage man apparently.

I actually think this is a disturbing trend, and bodes ill for our society if it continues. You only have to look south of the border to see what could easily happen to our public education system if funding continues to be cut. I include both teacher salaries other funding to schools in this category.

Edited by Coda, 01 March 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#158 Badfish

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:08 PM

I have two young kids, one in school and one a few years away. Although I do agree that it is a very important profession, teachers are far from being compared to doctors. They do not and will not teach my children the most important lessons in life. That's our jobs as parents.

There are plenty of important jobs out there. If I were to be in a car accident, I would be counting on the repair technician to keep my family safe if we were to be hit again. If the electricians, plumbers, construction workers, gas fitters, collision repair guys etc of the world don't do their job correctly, lives are at risk.

If a teacher messes up, or doesnt' care to do their job correctly... I will have still taught my kids common sense, how to manage money, how to drive, how to treat others etc. I can guarantee that I have spent more time teaching my 6 year old how to read than his teacher has. Parents play a huge role in a childs developement, learning and self esteem/confidence.

Again, teachers have important jobs; so do many other people who make far less, have less benefits, less time off and deal with a higher level of risk. Anyone hear any of these people complain about their wages/benefits in the media?

I would love to see the BCTF disband and wipe the slate clean. From what I understand, there are approx 1700 teachers out there without jobs. In the real world, when the supply outweighs the demand, it drives the market down. I'm willing to bet that those 1700 that can't land a job would be more than happy to take 50-60k (or the current salaries even) plus reasonable benefits, over serving tables at earls.

#159 inane

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

I have two young kids, one in school and one a few years away. Although I do agree that it is a very important profession, teachers are far from being compared to doctors. They do not and will not teach my children the most important lessons in life. That's our jobs as parents.

There are plenty of important jobs out there. If I were to be in a car accident, I would be counting on the repair technician to keep my family safe if we were to be hit again. If the electricians, plumbers, construction workers, gas fitters, collision repair guys etc of the world don't do their job correctly, lives are at risk.

If a teacher messes up, or doesnt' care to do their job correctly... I will have still taught my kids common sense, how to manage money, how to drive, how to treat others etc. I can guarantee that I have spent more time teaching my 6 year old how to read than his teacher has. Parents play a huge role in a childs developement, learning and self esteem/confidence.

Again, teachers have important jobs; so do many other people who make far less, have less benefits, less time off and deal with a higher level of risk. Anyone hear any of these people complain about their wages/benefits in the media?

I would love to see the BCTF disband and wipe the slate clean. From what I understand, there are approx 1700 teachers out there without jobs. In the real world, when the supply outweighs the demand, it drives the market down. I'm willing to bet that those 1700 that can't land a job would be more than happy to take 50-60k (or the current salaries even) plus reasonable benefits, over serving tables at earls.


There are a disturbing number of children out there who do not have parents who do anything like you describe.

#160 ccc44

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:59 PM

Its not just about teacher wage in creases its also about proper funding .there have been so many school closures over the past 10 years leading to over crowded class rooms .Teachers in my opinion have the most important job in helping parents build a solid foundation for children to take on the world and succeed
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#161 ccc44

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:14 PM

http://cherylangst.w...aching-in-bc-3/

Read this information and if that dont change your mind that there is funding issues then you need to pull your head out your ***

Edited by ccc44, 01 March 2012 - 10:20 PM.

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#162 Common sense

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:17 PM

lol.

4-5 years of university followed by another 1-2 years to be a certified teacher for a total of 6-7 years of school. Yea, real easy pal.


Given how many people are getting Bachelor's degrees, and the requirements to get into education, it's actually pretty easy.

#163 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:44 PM

Given how many people are getting Bachelor's degrees, and the requirements to get into education, it's actually pretty easy.


You also have to pass a practicum, that usually weeds out folks that think it's gonna be "pretty easy". Not to mention the volunteer hours with youth before you can even get in.
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#164 Try Again

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:54 PM

Given how many people are getting Bachelor's degrees, and the requirements to get into education, it's actually pretty easy.


its pretty competitive to get into the Education program.

use some common sense
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#165 Common sense

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:47 AM

its pretty competitive to get into the Education program.

use some common sense


For UBC: Minimum 65%, no standardized test required.

Considering the requirements for that vs other programs that require you to have a BA/BSc, that's easy.

Edited by Common sense, 02 March 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#166 Remy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:58 AM

For UBC: Minimum 65%, no standardized test required.

Considering the requirements for that vs other programs that require you to have a BA/BSc, that's easy.


You're just flat out wrong. You will not get into UBC's program with a 65% average during your undergrad. Not unless you bribe the deciding committee. I went to a less reputable school than UBC (albeit one that offered a full BEd and not just a PDP), and the standards were definately not as low as 65%. Lots of folks didn't get accepted. Besides, saying what the "minimum standard" for a program will be, is not the same as saying what the competitive standard actually is.

#167 Common sense

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:27 AM

You're just flat out wrong. You will not get into UBC's program with a 65% average during your undergrad. Not unless you bribe the deciding committee. I went to a less reputable school than UBC (albeit one that offered a full BEd and not just a PDP), and the standards were definately not as low as 65%. Lots of folks didn't get accepted. Besides, saying what the "minimum standard" for a program will be, is not the same as saying what the competitive standard actually is.


I was just stating what were the requirements, as per the UBC Faculty of Education webpage.

That's besides the point. The point is, unis are churning out many bachelors' degrees, and of those BA/BScs, a number of them find its way into the BEd program...

#168 Weber's Playoff Beard

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:58 AM

Who cares how many B.Ed's are getting churned out, how does that affect the strike or the difficulty of the profession?

#169 ronthecivil

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:34 AM

The hardest part of getting a job as a teacher is the get a job part what with all the old crones hanging on and even the so called retired ones sucking up all the sub teacher jobs.

So who cares how hard the degree is to get? There's a lot line of teachers. The supply is greater than the demand.

#170 silverpig

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

The hardest part of getting a job as a teacher is the get a job part what with all the old crones hanging on and even the so called retired ones sucking up all the sub teacher jobs.

So who cares how hard the degree is to get? There's a lot line of teachers. The supply is greater than the demand.


And THIS is the problem. The BCTF should have input to the BC teaching schools about what positions are in demand and ensuring that they don't just graduate a ton of teachers just so they can keep their schools open.
Moo

#171 Try Again

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:18 PM

For UBC: Minimum 65%, no standardized test required.

Considering the requirements for that vs other programs that require you to have a BA/BSc, that's easy.


That's the minimum required to stay competitive.
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#172 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

Thought I would post an update here.

I'm waiting in the parking lot to pick up my brother and at least 90% of the students walked out... (the walk began @ 2:00).

#173 Dave Bolland

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:21 PM

Students protesting at my intersection, but here's a rant I posted on HFBoards:

My god. Students at my school are 'protesting' for a better education while our school is full of stoners, and kids who don't give two craps. Yet, they feel the need to 'protest' for our crappy teachers (and crappy is being nice....) so we can have a 'better education'. The one big issue I see, is the lack of actual teachers, you know, ones that actually fracking TEACH you.

Just an excuse to get out of school is all. I'll support my teachers, but first if they would actually do the job they've been hired for, they'd get my support. Until then, not a chance you get my support by 'protesting'.

I should also mention that they're wasting our cops' time by having to patrol these moronic kids while they sit at my intersection.

High School students really need to figure out who they are. On a normal school day, they hate their teachers and hope to never see them again (except for the odd teacher that's an actual good TEACHER). The next day they're supporting their teachers and I highly doubt they even know what the hell is happening.

/rant

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#174 inane

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

So you think high school students are stoners and teachers are crappy. Your rant is really well thought out, good job.

#175 Common sense

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

YOu know what sends a stronger message than picketing on a Friday afternoon?

Picketing with the teachers at 8:15am Monday morning. See how many show up

#176 Pears

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:26 PM

I walked out today, and it felt good.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#177 Common sense

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:05 PM

I walked out today, and it felt good.


What did you do afterwards?

#178 Pears

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

What did you do afterwards?

Went home :P

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#179 Common sense

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

Went home :P


lolz.

#180 OrdinaryBoy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

I led a walkout at my school today. Lots of honk support from drivers.




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