Luongo

[Ballisticsports.]

Half? I'd say he had about 5 bad games out of 25...By your exaggeration standards, he had 5 shutouts in the Finals.

"Loselongo" as you like to call him has already won a Gold Medal for the team and a Jennings Trophy as an individual.And if Team Canada won DESPITE Luongo like you said, and any goalie could have done what Luongo did in the Olympics, when why didn't Brodeur?

[BobHo]

Exactly! Luyongo still amazes me at his age!

[Wh!stler R!der]

As our coach likes to say: "Loungo is our guy"

[darkpoet]

I thought the goal 2 seconds into the third was brutal and lost us the game. We didn't really deserve to win either though. I just hope Lou doesn't let any of these in during the playoffs.

[darkpoet]

As our coach likes to say: "Loungo is our guy"

[DIBdaQUIB]

I picked 22 consecutive games where Luongo was playing his best hockey and compared it to the 22 games CS has played, you cannot deny it's a fair comparison. Both goales playing thier best hockey for 22 games. As for the second bolded part, you lose all credibility when you say stuff like that because it's simply not true. Your hate for Luongo obviously clouds you ability to speak facts and all you're doing is spewing crap.

I realize it's just your opinion, but you need to realize that's all it is, just an opinion.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I picked 22 consecutive games where Luongo was playing his best hockey and compared it to the 22 games CS has played, you cannot deny it's a fair comparison. Both goales playing thier best hockey for 22 games. As for the second bolded part, you lose all credibility when you say stuff like that because it's simply not true. Your hate for Luongo obviously clouds you ability to speak facts and all you're doing is spewing crap.

I realize it's just your opinion, but you need to realize that's all it is, just an opinion.

[CanucksSayEh]

Lu just isn't clutch. Sorry, i want to see him succeed, i really do, but i want a cup more. It's not his fault, clutch isn't something that can be taught. When you are born and the cord is cut, you're either clutch or not. It's an attribute far more precious than skill, if you can come up big in big moments you will do great things. Don't want to hear about the gold medal, team Canada..... TEAM F***** CANADA, so ridiculously stacked we could have won with a 2x4 laying infront of the net. Crosby is clutch, Burrows is clutch, Eli Manning is clutch, Tim Tebow is clutch, Luongo is not. Would like to see a 50/50 split in the playoffs.

[Wh!stler R!der]

You wonder how many people he is p!ss!ng off by saying that... because by saying "our", he is speaking for the whole team.

It baffles the mind how this team tanked so fast. You go from shutting out the best team in the league right now (St. Louis) 2-0, and then start the next month completely asleep.

vs. Buffalo = 3 goals on 7 shots .571 SV%

vs. Dallas = 4 goals on 28 shots .857 SV%

vs. Habs = 4 goals on 35 shots .886 SV%

vs. Yotes = 5 goals on 33 shots .848 SV%

His stats this year total are .916 SV% and 2.48 GAA (49 games played)

For a high scoring team, goaltending MUST be your backbone. The reason why is when the going gets tough, (and it will) and goals get harder to come by, you need your goalie to step up and tighten the screws.

It's vital a goalie playing for a high powered offensive team has this ability.

I see Schneider playing in front of the same crapulent team as Luongo right now. The difference is Schneids sucks pucks into him and doesn't let them rebound off into God knows where making him have to scramble all over the place to compensate.

This is why when the team struggles and Luongo's in net you can bet on 4 or 5 GA, whereas with Schneids, you're looking at 2 or 3.

And that is reflected by his stats (for those of you that like to deny they mean anything)

.932 SV% 2.09 GAA (26 games played)

... and let's not forget some of those games were HUGE wins against elite teams.

I hope Luongo turns it around, along with the rest of the team but right now, our best goalie is riding the pine, and that's a fact.

[Quoted]

In reality, there are too many variables (quality of opponent, how well the team plays, where shots come from (perimeter vs. legit scoring chances, etc.)) to really use simple goalie stats to compare value of a goalie.

Which is better, a goalie facing a weak team and stopping 29 of 30 weak perimter shots or a goalie facing a strong team and saving 14 of 17 quality scoring chances and making several spectacular saves in the mix? From a pure stats point of view, the first is better, but is that automatically the better goalie? Not really.

[one-x]

This quote will be legendary for decades to come.

[DIBdaQUIB]

In reality, there are too many variables (quality of opponent, how well the team plays, where shots come from (perimeter vs. legit scoring chances, etc.)) to really use simple goalie stats to compare value of a goalie.

Which is better, a goalie facing a weak team and stopping 29 of 30 weak perimter shots or a goalie facing a strong team and saving 14 of 17 quality scoring chances and making several spectacular saves in the mix? From a pure stats point of view, the first is better, but is that automatically the better goalie? Not really.

[smurf47]

....and I think whats really hurting Lou is that he knows..deep down inside , that Schneider is better than he is !!!

[Quoted]

Which is why you use the season's complete stats to make a comparison.  Both goalies have faced top teams and weak teams. Both have been in net when the team was playing well and when it has been struggling.  Over a season, it evens out.

Done this way, and based on the mix of competition both goalies have seen this year, the stats confirm that Cory is playing better and more consistent than Lu.

From a subjective point of view, Cory moves better, is positionally more sounds and technically a better butterfly goalie than Lu.

If Lu didn't have history and a big contract, there is no team in the NHL right now that would play him over Cory.  Not one!!!

[DIBdaQUIB]

I still think it's tough as there are many intangibles (like complete melt-downs that stats tend to hide).I was speaking as generally as posible to avoid the specific debate here as it has gone around in so many circles and has become emotional.But, when you bring up "from a subjective point of view" that really is where watching the goalies and games rather than the numbers does come into it (and hopefully what the coaches do as well). As you say, taking contract and history out of the equation, it can be confusing to understand the current rotation. I would definitely support seeing less Luongo. Not necessarily dropped from number one, but maybe more of a balanced rotation.

[rkoshack]

Lu just isn't clutch. Sorry, i want to see him succeed, i really do, but i want a cup more. It's not his fault, clutch isn't something that can be taught. When you are born and the cord is cut, you're either clutch or not. It's an attribute far more precious than skill, if you can come up big in big moments you will do great things. Don't want to hear about the gold medal, team Canada..... TEAM F***** CANADA, so ridiculously stacked we could have won with a 2x4 laying infront of the net. Crosby is clutch, Burrows is clutch, Eli Manning is clutch, Tim Tebow is clutch, Luongo is not. Would like to see a 50/50 split in the playoffs.

[beer&meat]

How the hell is that a fair comparison?!

When you "select" your data from the period when Lu was playing his best and then compare it to Cory's complete season (so far) your numbers are skewed. To be fair, you have to use consistent base data. If you want to take numbers from Lu's best 22 games then you have to use a similar percentage of Cory's best games and compare. It is manipulative to remove the "bad' periods from the season's results in order to portay a goalie as better than his record shows. One could easily focus on the 7 game stretch wher Cory had 3 shutouts, ignoring the one bad start he had and get numbers that would be best in the league hands down.

The best and fairest way to compare the two goalies is on their complete performance from this year. When you do that, Cory has been more consistent, and has a better GOA and save % than Lu. The argument from last year regarding the competition he faced is no longer valid as he has faced the league's best and won this year.

What you have done is manipulate the data to support your subjective opinion.

[DIBdaQUIB]

To compare season stats and take from them that Cory Schneider is a better goalie and try and pass it off as fact is not "fair", it's not even fact, it's an opinion.

Cory Schneider has played almost 1400 less minutes than Luongo, to think the "Is on pace for" stat holds any truth is foolish , there's absolutley NO way to know what Cory's numbers would look like if he played those extra 1400 Minutes.

I took ALL of Cory's games, good and bad, I took a 2 month stretch of Luongo's games , good and bad.

It's about as accurate as comparing 2827 Mins played to 1438 Mins played.

Oh since we are trying to be so accurate, Ginger has never posted 3 shutouts in 7 games, in fact he doesn't even have 3 shutouts this year........or last. (3 SO in 2 seasons, 51 GP)

I also never gave my opinion about anything, I'm giving facts that comparing 1400 minutes to 2800 minutes and deciding that a 2nd year backup goalie with 3244 Mins played in the NHL is "better" than a veteran, Gold medal winning, Vezina nominated, game 7 Stanley Cup Finalist with over 41,000 Mins played starting goalie is well, in your words "skewed"

[J.I.A.H.N]

To compare season stats and take from them that Cory Schneider is a better goalie and try and pass it off as fact is not "fair", it's not even fact, it's an opinion.

Cory Schneider has played almost 1400 less minutes than Luongo, to think the "Is on pace for" stat holds any truth is foolish , there's absolutley NO way to know what Cory's numbers would look like if he played those extra 1400 Minutes.

I took ALL of Cory's games, good and bad, I took a 2 month stretch of Luongo's games , good and bad.

It's about as accurate as comparing 2827 Mins played to 1438 Mins played.

Oh since we are trying to be so accurate, Ginger has never posted 3 shutouts in 7 games, in fact he doesn't even have 3 shutouts this year........or last. (3 SO in 2 seasons, 51 GP)

I also never gave my opinion about anything, I'm giving facts that comparing 1400 minutes to 2800 minutes and deciding that a 2nd year backup goalie with 3244 Mins played in the NHL is "better" than a veteran, Gold medal winning, Vezina nominated, game 7 Stanley Cup Finalist with over 41,000 Mins played starting goalie is well, in your words "skewed"

[smurf47]

Actually beer and meat...thats just wishful thinking on your part . If you knew anything about goaltending you would know that schneider is technically and fundamentally better than Luongo. He has answered the bell on nearly every occassion...either in relief when Lou has been pulled (4 times) and when he has started games.

His stats confirm that over 22 games he has played his stats are better and to think he would not or could not do the same in another 22 games is conjecture and unfounded reasoning on your part. There is no basis for that line of reasoning.

Schneider is playing tomorrow because Lou is not getting it done right now and the team needs to change things around.

It can;t hurt Lou by sitting. If he were to start and lose against Columbus he would be really down on himself. If cory were to lose it might feel like vindication to Lou and chalk it up to bad team play. The rest can;t hurt him...he gets to take his feet out of the fire for a few days. Not a bad strategy by AV