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Three Scoring Lines.


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#1 Braman

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

Other than the Canucks, there's another team I really like to cheer for. I like the way this other team doesn't run 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 energy line but instead runs 3-4 scoring lines.

Why do the Canucks insist on taking out skill and going with a more 'conventional' lineup. If you can run 3 scoring lines, you run 3 scoring lines. Hell, if you can run 4 scoring lines then do that! One or two of the scoring lines would also be good defensively of course. The Canucks have one of the best two way forwards in Kesler. By being able to run 3 scoring lines, you constantly keep your opponent countering and defending leaving little time for offense themselves. What would you rather have? 3 lines that can score and 1 solid defensive line? Or 2 lines that can score, 1 solid defensive line and 1 'energy' line?

Downgrading our offense was a mistake. What happens when the Sedins get shut down? Who do we have scoring? Kesler('s line)? Yes. Who else? This is why having Hodgson was such a boon. Picking up Pahlsson was great and all but he gives us the same thing that Malhotra was already supposed to be doing (has the eye injury set him back that much? maybe it has). And moving Hodgson to the wing with Kesler WAS a good option (remember that it was when Kesler played on the wing with Sundin that he started to become the star player he is now.) But now that the Canucks aren't as offensively deep,

I'm not going to rag on Kassian here - I haven't seen him play enough to know what he's fully capable of - but he certainly doesn't put up the points or have the brilliant playmaking ability that Hodgson did. Hopefully Kassian becomes useful by playoff time is all I'll say about that. (Hodgson even made Raymond look good... I hope this trade doesn't come back to bite us. Maybe Kassian will be a star in the future too?)

But our offense - especially the Sedins - have been getting shut down hard lately and the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack. (And the Sedins need to gtfo this slump)

In short, if you can run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it. The other team I love to cheer for so much that runs 3-4 scoring lines? It's Team Canada if you didn't already figure that out. If you have the talent in your roster to run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it.

A shame it's too late...

#2 Zoolander

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:23 AM

First off, congratulations on your 6th post here on CDC

And second, what is the point of having 3-4 scoring lines....the 3rd line will be playing against the other teams first and second. How can they score in the playofs when they're pinned in their own zone? and Hodgson didnt play on the PK so a minus at the end o the night wouldnt be a surprise and comparing an NHL team to Team Canada.....no comment.
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#3 Lockhart

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

3 Scoring lines? I would be happy with 2.......

#4 Wheels22

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

Agreed. I was much happier with 3 scoring lines. Our 4th line could have easily handled itself as the 1 defensive line. The team was playing much better with that too.

Not sure what is going to happen in the playoffs, but considering we are playing like crap and can't score a goal, probably nothing good. Expectations are officially lowered

Edited by Wheels22, 11 March 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#5 Losing With Pride

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:30 AM

The invisible Sedins.

#6 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:31 AM

You will find that approach costing more goals-against than goals-for.

The flaw of EA Sports-style line creating is that IT'S NOT REAL. Cheers.


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#7 honey badger36

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

Umm incase you missed it Coho is pointless with the sabers and his offence had dried up as late with the nucks before we traded him Kass hits fights and has more points than Coho since the trade get over it. Coho's line would have been the weekest link come playoffs and other teams would have attacked it with their best lines whenever possible. Phalsson also has more points than Coho since the trade so your point is mute sir. What we needed was a line we could trod out against other teams top lines that wasn't the kes line now we have that.

Edited by snotty snaggler, 11 March 2012 - 11:32 AM.


#8 Herberts Vasiljevs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:35 AM

Our lack of production has nothing to do with not having three scoring lines, it's been the invisibility of the Sedin line.

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#9 PONCHE

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:40 AM

Other than the Canucks, there's another team I really like to cheer for. I like the way this other team doesn't run 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 energy line but instead runs 3-4 scoring lines.

[...]
It's Team Canada if you didn't already figure that out. If you have the talent in your roster to run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it.


Do you realize how many different hockey teams there are in the world? Assuming that we'd know excatly which team in which league you were reffereing to seems like a bit of a stretch

Regardless, yes the Canucks traded some offense for the grit that Kassian brings. However, whats done is done. The trade gave us what we needed (Grit) and gave Buffalo what they needed (Offense) thats what a "hockey trade" is.


And lets be honest, you dont even consider making this thread if the Sedins aren't slumping right now. We gave from our bounty and they gave from theirs

Edited by PONCHE, 11 March 2012 - 11:44 AM.

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#10 Gollumpus

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

Well, I believe that trading Hodgson was fo rthe best, the best for the team and the best for Hodgson.

Taking offensive ability out of a team is not always a bad thing. The Canucks rode Tiger Williams to the finals in 81 - 82. He was a hard hitting, "never say die" kind of guy who's attitude rubbed off on his team meates. Will Kassian do that for the Canucks this year? Perhaps not, but his style of play is more what this team needs going forward than what Hodgson can bring (and this is not a knock on Hodgson).

If you have three scoring lines, who do you rely upon to stop the other guy's top line? If the Sedins are shut down by an opposing team's checking line, and Kesler and company are played even by the other team's second line, who stops their top line?

Do folks honestly expect that Hodgson and company could outplay Datsyuk's line? Hodgson and company might get a goal a game (optimistic, yes), but what good is that if the other guys score three?

Might Hodgson one day be a very effective center in the NHL? Sure, but right now he is "slow" (as in he is average going north/south and he doesn't have lateral quickness. In other words, kind of average at best). He is not a very effective face-off guy, and like other players, he goes into slumps, kind of like the one he was in before the Canucks traded him, and the same one he in which he still is for these last six or seven games with Buffalo. I've also read comments where people have concerns that he is muscled off the puck far too often.

If the Canucks were ever going to run three scoring lines, Kesler would have to be the guy to center the third line. This would mean that the Canucks would have to have a very good center for the second line. They did not have him in Hodgson.

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#11 blueliner1955

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

idk bout u guys i want them to wake up score play positive they are losing their desire to win lack of scoreing

#12 ahf149

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

I dont know if anyone has noticed but since Hodgson has been traded, Kesler has stepped up into his beast mode status. Him and Booth were FLYING out there last night and they didnt get what they deserved. Having Cody out of the line up, enables Kesler to relax and play his game. Thats a big bonus. He was "invisible" for awhile.

I am not worried about the Sedins. They will score a goal and it will be "what slump?" We have some "easier" games coming up, Columbus. The defence wont be nearly as stingy, and the Sedins will break out...

I am not worried about our second place Canucks. At least we can win more than a game in a row, unlike the Bruins right now ha ha
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#13 ahf149

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

Whoops double post

Edited by ahf149, 11 March 2012 - 12:10 PM.

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#14 406281dylan

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

guys relax the third line will score when lappy joins them

#15 The Architect

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:29 PM

My goodness............

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#16 hockeyknowhow81

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

its time for a line shuffle, and rest guys for a few games. Its just tough cause we have to clinch the NW title before we can do so. If we could sit the Sedin for a few nights, call up some guys from the farm to just crash and band, then ice your actual playoff lineup, rested and refreshed to blow out teams for the last 2 games of the seaon, it would do wonders.

the one thing I think has to change, is the 3rd line should be Kassian, Lapierre, and hansen, and Pahlson, Malhotra, Weise for the 4th. Lappy and Kassian are way more effective when they are one the ice, not playing 6 min a night

#17 Primal Optimist

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:04 PM

Guys that need no explanation about what they bring to the team:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Higgins
Raymond >>> Hansen
Malhotra Lapierre >>>

So your mad that we went out and got two guys in to play bottom six who have 2 goals and two assists in six games between them, and this is not offense enough for you. .33points a game each.

Suck eggs.

If everyone on the bottom six got a goal and an assist every six games: we would have six goals a series from our secondary players in teh playoffs....i for one would love that!

Edited by Primal Optimist, 11 March 2012 - 01:06 PM.

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#18 Blue & Green

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:04 PM

Kesler offensive chances have really improved since Pahlsson started centering the 3rd line. Seems to me that Pahlsson has the ability of playing against the opposing teams top lines and playing a major role killing penalties both of which free up Kesler quite a bit. It`s similar to Manny last year. Hodgson was a liabilty for Kesler, I think Hodgsons even strength good offensive production was partially a product of playing against 3rd and 4th lines and 3rd defensive pairings. With Kassian, the Canucks have a chance of having a future top 6 power forward, an extremely rare commodity. Good trades GM!

Edited by Dr. Hook, 11 March 2012 - 01:15 PM.


#19 Rollieo Del Fuego

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

Other than the Canucks, there's another team I really like to cheer for. I like the way this other team doesn't run 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 energy line but instead runs 3-4 scoring lines.

Why do the Canucks insist on taking out skill and going with a more 'conventional' lineup. If you can run 3 scoring lines, you run 3 scoring lines. Hell, if you can run 4 scoring lines then do that! One or two of the scoring lines would also be good defensively of course. The Canucks have one of the best two way forwards in Kesler. By being able to run 3 scoring lines, you constantly keep your opponent countering and defending leaving little time for offense themselves. What would you rather have? 3 lines that can score and 1 solid defensive line? Or 2 lines that can score, 1 solid defensive line and 1 'energy' line?

Downgrading our offense was a mistake. What happens when the Sedins get shut down? Who do we have scoring? Kesler('s line)? Yes. Who else? This is why having Hodgson was such a boon. Picking up Pahlsson was great and all but he gives us the same thing that Malhotra was already supposed to be doing (has the eye injury set him back that much? maybe it has). And moving Hodgson to the wing with Kesler WAS a good option (remember that it was when Kesler played on the wing with Sundin that he started to become the star player he is now.) But now that the Canucks aren't as offensively deep,

I'm not going to rag on Kassian here - I haven't seen him play enough to know what he's fully capable of - but he certainly doesn't put up the points or have the brilliant playmaking ability that Hodgson did. Hopefully Kassian becomes useful by playoff time is all I'll say about that. (Hodgson even made Raymond look good... I hope this trade doesn't come back to bite us. Maybe Kassian will be a star in the future too?)

But our offense - especially the Sedins - have been getting shut down hard lately and the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack. (And the Sedins need to gtfo this slump)

In short, if you can run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it. The other team I love to cheer for so much that runs 3-4 scoring lines? It's Team Canada if you didn't already figure that out. If you have the talent in your roster to run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it.

A shame it's too late...


I pretty much agree.
When the trade happened I said it would come back to bite us in the arse.
I also said the only possible saving grace is if MAG can become a top 4 D. Zack will be a pretty good Power forward but 2nd line is tops for him I think, he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, no where near Cody's level of thinking the game.
Sure hope he proves me wrong and start's scoring goals with the Sedin's in the playoffs or in a year or two anyways.
So can MAG be a top 4?
He is steadier than I thought he'd be, I have only seen him make a couple of mistakes and he skates well enough to cover them up for the most part...time will tell!

Edited by Rollieo Del Fuego, 11 March 2012 - 04:36 PM.


#20 Blue & Green

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

I pretty much agree.
When the trade happened I said it would come back to bite us in the arse.
I also said the only possible saving grace is if MAG can become a top 4 D. Zack will be a pretty good Power forward but 2nd line is tops for him I think, he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer no where near Cody's level of thinking the game.
Sure hope he proves me wrong and start's scoring goals with Sedin's in the playoffs or in a year or two anyways.
So can MAG be a top 4?
He is steadier than I thought he be, I have only seen him make a couple of mistakes and he skates well enough to cover them up for the most part...time will tell!

Disagree... more to do with inexperience. CoHo often looked pretty lost in the fall.

#21 RunningWild

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:00 PM

Many teams do have 3 scoring lines (Detroit, Philly, Boston), but their 3rd lines also have a good mix of scorers and defensive players. The many benefits of this system is versatility during injuries, 3rd line facing oppositions bottom d-pairing etc.

But my question is why did Gillis change the teams system 1 month before the playoffs start? If he wanted 2 checking lines/2 scoring lines, why didn't he build that team last summer? It's 'all or nothing' when you change a system after trade deadline, especially when the Nucks don't have pieces on the farm (with experience) who can step in and become a 3rd scoring line if things don't work out. And as of today, things have not worked out - the record since trade deadline tells the story.

#22 Kokanee is good

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

Other than the Canucks, there's another team I really like to cheer for.  I like the way this other team doesn't run 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 energy line but instead runs 3-4 scoring lines.

Why do the Canucks insist on taking out skill and going with a more 'conventional' lineup.  If you can run 3 scoring lines, you run 3 scoring lines.  Hell, if you can run 4 scoring lines then do that!  One or two of the scoring lines would also be good defensively of course.  The Canucks have one of the best two way forwards in Kesler.  By being able to run 3 scoring lines, you constantly keep your opponent countering and defending leaving little time for offense themselves.  What would you rather have? 3 lines that can score and 1 solid defensive line? Or 2 lines that can score, 1 solid defensive line and 1 'energy' line?

Downgrading our offense was a mistake.  What happens when the Sedins get shut down?  Who do we have scoring?  Kesler('s line)?  Yes.  Who else?  This is why having Hodgson was such a boon.  Picking up Pahlsson was great and all but he gives us the same thing that Malhotra was already supposed to be doing (has the eye injury set him back that much? maybe it has).  And moving Hodgson to the wing with Kesler WAS a good option (remember that it was when Kesler played on the wing with Sundin that he started to become the star player he is now.)  But now that the Canucks aren't as offensively deep,

I'm not going to rag on Kassian here - I haven't seen him play enough to know what he's fully capable of - but he certainly doesn't put up the points or have the brilliant playmaking ability that Hodgson did.  Hopefully Kassian becomes useful by playoff time is all I'll say about that.  (Hodgson even made Raymond look good...  I hope this trade doesn't come back to bite us.  Maybe Kassian will be a star in the future too?)

But our offense - especially the Sedins - have been getting shut down hard lately and the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack.  (And the Sedins need to gtfo this slump)

In short, if you can run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it.  The other team I love to cheer for so much that runs 3-4 scoring lines?  It's Team Canada if you didn't already figure that out.  If you have the talent in your roster to run more than 2 scoring lines, you do it.

A shame it's too late...


Hodgson had chemistry.. Kassian is still learning the canucks chemistry but give him time he'll find a spot where he produces what we all hope and expect out of him. Also look at hodgson in Buffalo he isn't exactly producing points least Kassian is contributing in some way. (hits :D)

#23 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

A team, according to wikipedia is:

A team comprises a group of people [edit] linked in a common purpose. Teams are especially appropriate for conducting tasks that are high in complexity and have many interdependent subtasks.
A group in itself does not necessarily constitute a team. Teams normally have members with complementary skills and generate synergy through a coordinated effort which allows each member to maximise his/her strengths and minimise his/her weaknesses. Team members need to learn how to help one another, help other team members realize their true potential, and create an environment that allows everyone to go beyond their limitations.



It doesn't matter who plays on the 3rd or 4th line. Eventually they will blamed for lack of offense, defence, toughness, grit,...whatever. Then over the off-season or at the deadline, changes are made, players are upgraded. And yet the coach still can't figure out how to use that to his advantage?

Now it's gotten to the point where he can not blame the 3rd/4th line because he is directly responsible for a major shake-up. So he calls out the Sedins. :rolleyes:

Everyone knows the Canucks have the talent. It's very frustrating waiting for the coach to figure out how to get all of it working at the same time.
Quando omni flunkus moritati

#24 afan

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:45 PM

Vancouver has 3 threatening scoring lines before the Coho trade. When you have 3 scoring lines, it's the opposition who should worry about checking. AV is an absolute moron when he addressed the issue that Vancouver need a 3rd line that can check. Now that Coho is gone, the 3 rd line is not going to score that many goals. Once the 1st or 2 nd line, or both, is shut down the Cancuks will not win.

AV is always a prospects killer. It was Grabner last year, Hodgson this year, who is going to be next? I think the talened fast skater Kassian will end up as a glove-dropping goon soon under AV.

#25 Braman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

I'm just going to bump this thread after watching this first round failure.

I suspect the blame should fall on AV for not utilizing skilled rookie forwards effectively leading to this bad (at least short term ) trade. That's a topic for another thread though. (http://forum.canucks...-issues-thread/)

Poll: Would you rather have a second line of Hodgson-Kesler-Burrows and a fourth line of Lapierre-Malhotra-Raymond
or a second line of Lapierre-Kesler-Burrows and a fourth line of Kassian/Weise-Malhotra-Raymond?

#26 Strawberries

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:40 AM

lol
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#27 Merci

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:43 AM

Sedins Burrows
Sammuellson Hodgson Kesler
Higgins Pahllson Hansen
Torres Lapierre Weise

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Erhoff
Ballard Salo

Schneider

Prob would have gone all the way to win the cup imo/

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#28 AndyBernard

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:42 AM

We needed a player like hodgson to water our dried up offense, but we also needed a player like kassian, who didnt really show up. A player we didn't need was raymond, whom hodgson couldve replaced if we still had him. Maybe then we wouldnt have had to sugar coat lapierre on the second line.... Last night we had 1 scoring line, 2 checking lines and an energy line.. Whoevers idea that was needs to go.
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#29 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:30 AM

The Cup winning team in the last 5 or 6 years have all had 15-20 goal scorers on their 3rd line.

3 scoring lines is the key to success. Basically, you need offensive depth to win the Cup, no team can rely on one or even two offensive lines without some backup.

MG basically shot us in the foot by trading Hodgson, and like I said on deadline day, it will cost the Canucks and it has. He gets what he deserves for that stupid trade.
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#30 Nomorelosers

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:40 AM

What, exactly, (outside of a good game or two against Nashville) has Kesler ever done for this team?




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